Most Underrated / Overrated Colts of all time (merge)

[Superman]

he did have koser and at one point brees who is now considered a HOFer.

 

He had pre-HOF Brees.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

And to think the article started out so well....their underrated list left little to argue about although Jeff Herrod deserved mention among Indianapolis era players....he was always very solid on some of our lousier teams. And the Jeff George overrated pick had plenty of merit considering what we gave up for him at #1 overall.

 

After that...they crapped the bed.

 

These are my Top 5 overrated Colts.....and IMO, chronically injured guys who delivered REAL impact but were cut short by injury don't count.

 

#1 - QB Jeff George....I agree with this, we badly overpaid to draft him and he was one big pain in the caboose almost the entire time. On balance, we'd have been better off keeping Chris Hinton and Andre Rison....even though Rison was a thug in his own right.

 

#2 - LB Quentin Coryatt....a monster at Texas A&M, ordinary in the NFL after being drafted #2 overall. Couldn't secure the INT in the closing minutes of that playoff thriller against Pittsburgh which would have sent us to the Super Bowl.

 

#3 - WR Shawn Dawkins....drafted #16 overall, Dawkins is that 6'4" 215lb "tall WR" many Colts fans whine that we never have. Well....he never reached 70 receptions or 1000 yards per season or 10 TDs per season, including 3 of his 9 seasons playing with Peyton Manning and having Marvin Harrison on the other side for 6 of them. For a #16 overall pick, I'd say he was overrated.

 

#4 - RT Ryan Diem....his 2005 contract was among the highest at the time for a RT. It was average players like this getting paid far above their worth that left us short in other areas when the regular season ended and we had to play playoff-caliber defenses.

 

#5 - GM Bill Polian....see #4 and the host of other average players retained with cap-straining contracts, as well as Polian's deplorable O-Line talent evaluation, his late-career 1st round busts and a brazen level of nepotism that would make Buckingham Palace blush. The "organizational philosophy" of chucking the undefeated season was another gem. Oh...he had his moments and his accolades....but also had plenty of faults that Colts fans for many years were, and in some cases still are, blind to.

Don't agree with Diem or Polian both were good. Diem was one of the best RT in football except for the last 2 years, very solid! Polian's record specks for it self, bottom line he brought home a Super Bowl win, A super bowl appearance and lots of playoff appearance's, and a team to be reckoned with very year, enough said, most teams in the NFL would kill for that! Coryatt & Dawkins where good players just not great, you could also put Jon Hand in there as well!

[Gramz]

I knew when I read the Title  there would be something / someone listed that would

 

Sure enough.   Unbelievable          

[Superman]

peyton is like marty schottenheimer. id want him for the regular season, but not for the playoffs

 

 

Ah.

 

I disagree. For so many reasons. But carry on.

 

Actually, let me just point you here. Sums my thoughts up nicely.

 

http://captaincomeback.wordpress.com/2013/01/13/peyton-mannings-eight-one-and-done-nfl-playoffs-learn-what-you-are-criticizing/

[unitaswestand]

I do wonder about the term of overrated/underrated.  For example, is Jeff George really overrated? I don't know that anyone on here ever rated him that high!   Or are we talking about coming out of college.

 

If we are going by players that are rated highly, but we feel shouldn't be rated that high, my list would be:

 

1) Jeff Saturday -  He was good for a few years, but was never as great as how he was perceived.  Too often I saw him get knocked into the backfield.  Thanks to Peyton Manning, he made every lineman look better than they were.

 

2) Dallas Clark - Good player but maybe not a premier tight end as how he was perceived for awhile.  When Jacob Tamme replaced him and put up similar numbers, it made you wonder if it were Clark or the system.

 

3) Edgerran James - I will probably get pounded on this one.  I thought James was a very good back.   But what always bothered me about him was he always got his yardage in the second half once we were ahead.   I would rarely seem him dominate a first half.  And he too often disappeared in the playoffs.  I don't think he was GREAT like some fans would put him.  But just my opinion. I could be 100% wrong.

 

4) Cato June - Pro Bowl for being in the right place early in the season, but was never anything else before or after?

 

Underrated

1) Ryan Diem - He tailed off the last few years, but he was a pretty good right tackle.  Classic road grader.  I don't think he was ever appreciated until it was obvious he lost it.

 

2) Bert Jones - For a short while, the best QB in the NFL.  His 1976 season is considered one of the best of all time.  He is often forgotten about because of injuries.  But then again, Gale Sayers didn't play long and was always remembered.

 

3) Tom Matte - Jack of all trades.   He was a good runner, receiver, blocker, and could even play QB.  But when you talk about great Colt RBs, he is never mentioned

 

4) Bill yBrooks -  It is astounding the numbers this guy put up with horrid QB play.  Had he played with Peyton Manning, I believe he would have had near Marvin Harrison numbers.

[Superman]

Overrated: Gary Brackett -- Was a pro, very cerebral, and kind of embodied the mindset of the Colts at the time. But he was never special, and Polian made a huge mistake by resigning him and giving him a $12m signing bonus.

 

Underrated: Reggie Wayne -- He's never really been regarded as one of the all-time greats, he's always knocked for playing second fiddle to Marvin Harrison, or being a product of Peyton Manning. But he just had a renaissance year, he is one of the all-time leaders in playoff production, and he never misses a game. Not a superb athlete, but a technician, he plays with heart, he's a great leader and teammate, and he deserves more credit from the media.

[GoColts8818]

Peyton Manning's name is on there for no other reason than to get a reaction.  The write up is even supports that.  So if you react to it you are doing exactly what they want. 

 

As for the rest of the list I pretty much agree with it.  Sanders was a bit over rated because people acted like he was as good as Peyton Manning.  Frankly part of why Peyton Manning was so good was that he was never hurt.  He was also not the sole reason why the Colts Defense turned around for the playoffs in 2006 like some pretend he was.  Yes he was a big part of it but there were other factors as well. 

 

I don't know if Jeff George was overrated as much as he was just a bad draft pick.  Dickerson you can make a case was the first player to make football in Indianapolis legit but I can see why people can look at his career in Indianapolis and go you know it wasn't that impressive. 

 

Two I would add for underrated are Edge and Rhodes.  I think they get lost a little bit because we were a passing team.  I also think Glenn belongs on the underrated list as well.  I am not sure people ever gave him the credit he should have gotten for as good of a tackle as he was. 

[BOTT]

I do wonder about the term of overrated/underrated.  For example, is Jeff George really overrated? I don't know that anyone on here ever rated him that high!   Or are we talking about coming out of college.

 

If we are going by players that are rated highly, but we feel shouldn't be rated that high, my list would be:

 

1) Jeff Saturday -  He was good for a few years, but was never as great as how he was perceived.  Too often I saw him get knocked into the backfield.  Thanks to Peyton Manning, he made every lineman look better than they were.

 

2) Dallas Clark - Good player but maybe not a premier tight end as how he was perceived for awhile.  When Jacob Tamme replaced him and put up similar numbers, it made you wonder if it were Clark or the system.

 

3) Edgerran James - I will probably get pounded on this one.  I thought James was a very good back.   But what always bothered me about him was he always got his yardage in the second half once we were ahead.   I would rarely seem him dominate a first half.  And he too often disappeared in the playoffs.  I don't think he was GREAT like some fans would put him.  But just my opinion. I could be 100% wrong.

 

4) Cato June - Pro Bowl for being in the right place early in the season, but was never anything else before or after?

 

Underrated

1) Ryan Diem - He tailed off the last few years, but he was a pretty good right tackle.  Classic road grader.  I don't think he was ever appreciated until it was obvious he lost it.

 

2) Bert Jones - For a short while, the best QB in the NFL.  His 1976 season is considered one of the best of all time.  He is often forgotten about because of injuries.  But then again, Gale Sayers didn't play long and was always remembered.

 

3) Tom Matte - Jack of all trades.   He was a good runner, receiver, blocker, and could even play QB.  But when you talk about great Colt RBs, he is never mentioned

 

4) Bill yBrooks -  It is astounding the numbers this guy put up with horrid QB play.  Had he played with Peyton Manning, I believe he would have had near Marvin Harrison numbers.

I think Edge was overrated, but only due to the knee injury. He was never quite the same after that.

[buccolts]

you cant control what people want to think

[Fx Stryker]

A cool stat I have just found,

Of the 29 QBs selected #1 from 1939-present they have all combined to have been selected 7 times 1st team all-pro. Peyton has 6 of those 7. Terry Bradshaw has the remaining selection.

[HungarianColtsFan]

It all makes sense, except Manning.

 

I just don't know how you consider one of the greatest players of all time overrated. To me, it sounds like a site/network that wants attention. 

 

Following their line of thinking, A.Luck would be one of most overrated Colts' player ever in 12-15 years...

 

Well done Dave...well done

 

[Jessica L. Dunn]

I would never call one of the greatest QB's in history overrated I would agree with the rest I would put Gonzo in Peyton's spot I wouldn't call Bob that much overrated he was a force on the field when he was healthy.

[CR91]

I think you are in a very small minority in that thinking

 

tell me where im wrong to make that comparison. manning and favre even have the same number of losses in the playoffs

[CR91]

He had pre-HOF Brees.

 

your telling me it was only by chance that he became a star in new orleans

[CR91]

Actually, let me just point you here. Sums my thoughts up nicely.

 

http://captaincomeback.wordpress.com/2013/01/13/peyton-mannings-eight-one-and-done-nfl-playoffs-learn-what-you-are-criticizing/

 

I never said all those loses were peyton's fault. All I said was that record will be on his resume and effect his place in nfl history

[BOTT]

tell me where im wrong to make that comparison

I'm saying the vast majority of people would consider Manning a much better QB.

[BOTT]

your telling me it was only convenience that he became a star in new orleans

The PEDS helped

[CR91]

I'm saying the vast majority of people would consider Manning a much better QB.

 

why? their resumes are basically identical

[CR91]

The PEDS helped

 

is there proof of that or your assumption

[Kyle]

I believe the writing is on the wall. 9 times hes been one and done even with talent all over the place in denver.

he was in his first year with a new team and rehabbed a spinal fusion surgery the entire off season...he was not at 100% and his arm was tired at the end of the game.  was it a stupid throw??  yes.  did he try to make a throw he normally could pull off but didnt take into account he did not have his usual arm strength??  I say, absolutely.   I expect career high numbers for Manning this year.

[CR91]

he was in his first year with a new team and rehabbed a spinal fusion surgery the entire off season...he was not at 100% and his arm was tired at the end of the game.  was it a stupid throw??  yes.  did he try to make a throw he normally could pull off but didnt take into account he did not have his usual arm strength??  I say, absolutely.   I expect career high numbers for Manning this year.

 

he normally completes passes throwing against his body?

[unitaswestand]

I think is it absurd to consider Peyton Manning overrated.   I think too much is made out of who wins Super Bowls.   The Patriots won 3 Super Bowls early on in Tom Brady's career.  A big part of that was because their defense was so tough.   Since then, what has he won?  Don't you think cards have to fall correctly?  I personally would rate Dan Marino over John Elway. If Marino had the running attack Elway had the last two years, he would have won those Super Bowls too.

Peyton Manning is one of the greatest QBs of all time.  He can't be blamed for week coaching, often times no running attack, and no running defense.

[Kampa]

It´s weired to read about p.manning as one of the most overrated Colts. So he is one of the few american footballplayer also known in europe as a great player.

It´s a pity. Up to that moment I thougt these articels will teach me a bit of interesting players in history of the game.

some of you wrote - its only written to get more attention to the site - looks like you are right.

But it´s a shame to use a "good" name just to bring oneself into discussion.

　

Greez Kampa

Frankfurt - Germany

- followed my "first" NFL Season last year and can´t wait the next season to start -

[BOTT]

is there proof of that or your assumption

Obviously not, but I know that guy had a noodle arm at Purdue....and then after his second shoulder surgery he is slinging it around pretty good. I could be wrong, but I have always been suspicious.

[CR91]

Obviously not, but I know that guy had a noodle arm at Purdue....and then after his second shoulder surgery he is slinging it around pretty good. I could be wrong, but I have always been suspicious.

 

well look at matt ryan. couldnt throw a deep pass to save his life, now hes bombing it to jones. peyton also didnt have a strong arm coming out of college. sometimes its just a lot of hard work.

[BOTT]

why? their resumes are basically identical

I think everyone gets you angle on quarterbacks and post season team success. Nothing I say is going to change your view.

[BOTT]

well look at matt ryan. couldnt throw a deep pass to save his life, now hes bombing it to jones. peyton also didnt have a strong arm coming out of college. sometimes its just a lot of hard work.

Except that's not really true. Both had good arms coming out of college....not great, but good. Brees had a borderline noodle.

[CR91]

Except that's not really true. Both had good arms coming out of college....not great, but good. Brees had a borderline noodle.

 

compared to when they first came in the league its improved dramatically. i dont have a clue of how brees arm was before the surgery, but it seems to have made his arm stronger.

[CR91]

I think everyone gets you angle on quarterbacks and post season team success. Nothing I say is going to change your view.

 

just having a fun discussion buddy .

[BOTT]

compared to when they first came in the league its improved dramatically. i dont have a clue of how brees arm was before the surgery, but it seems to have made his arm stronger.

Andy Dalton should talk to his surgeon then lol

[CR91]

Andy Dalton should talk to his surgeon then lol

 

 

seems like his arm is fine with all the bombs he throws to AJ

[Superman]

your telling me it was only by chance that he became a star in new orleans

 

No. I'm saying that he wasn't as good with the Chargers as he is with the Saints. Players often get better with time. Tom Brady wasn't as good in 2004 as he was in 2007. Peyton Manning wasn't as good in 2002 as he was in 2007. It's not strange that Drew Brees is a significantly better player now than he was in his first four years in the league. 

[Superman]

I never said all those loses were peyton's fault. All I said was that record will be on his resume and effect his place in nfl history

 

So are we talking about the player, or are we talking about some arbitrary ranking he'll be tagged with once he's done playing? Because that record really doesn't say much about the player; it says plenty about the team.

[CR91]

So are we talking about the player, or are we talking about some arbitrary ranking he'll be tagged with once he's done playing? Because that record really doesn't say much about the player; it says plenty about the team.

 

really because I never hear anyone say the colts have been one and done 8 times

[CR91]

No. I'm saying that he wasn't as good with the Chargers as he is with the Saints. Players often get better with time. Tom Brady wasn't as good in 2004 as he was in 2007. Peyton Manning wasn't as good in 2002 as he was in 2007. It's not strange that Drew Brees is a significantly better player now than he was in his first four years in the league. 

 

yes, but the difference is those guys got better on the same team. the brees in san diego was never considered a top 5 qb let alone a HOFer

[Superman]

really because I never hear anyone say the colts have been one and done 8 times

 

So what? People continually parrot nonsense without thinking about it. Doesn't mean it's true.

 

If you're willing to put some actual thought into it, and you look back at the reasons for those losses, you'll recognize that it's stupid to hang them all on Peyton Manning. 

[CR91]

So what? People continually parrot nonsense without thinking about it. Doesn't mean it's true.

 

If you're willing to put some actual thought into it, and you look back at the reasons for those losses, you'll recognize that it's stupid to hang them all on Peyton Manning. 

 

im not the one hanging on them, but people who are simple minded like analyst will

[Superman]

yes, but the difference is those guys got better on the same team. the brees in san diego was never considered a top 5 qb let alone a HOFer

 

Again, so what? Did he get better or not?

 

Also, I agree that he benefited from Sean Payton's influence. Not only is Payton a really good offensive coach, he also allowed Brees to rip it a lot more than ultra-conservative Schottenheimer did. All I'm saying is that you can't reduce Brees' emergence as a great quarterback to just the coach. Brees was already a really good quarterback, and then he got even better. That happens with every good quarterback, despite coaching changes or continuity (Brady had several different offensive coordinators; Manning went from Jim Mora to Tony Dungy). 

[Superman]

im not the one hanging on them, but people who are simple minded like analyst will

 

You're busy promoting that angle in this very thread.

[CR91]

You're busy promoting that angle in this very thread.

 

i like to open things up.