Pagano's defense. are we seeing the plan come to fruition?

[BronxColtNYC]

I had some free time today so I researched numbers from pagano in Baltimore and found striking correlations.

Coach spent 4 years in Baltimore, ultimately becoming their Defensive Coordinator, so it's not unreasonable to use the Raven's depth chart as a template for what he hopes to accomplish in Indy.

I'm thinking most about the D Line, Linebacker, where sacks come from.

You start out with a given. The Ravens play 3 men on the line, the Colts play 3 men on the line. In Pagano's single season as Defensive Coordinator, his starters were Haloti Ngata, Terrence Cody and our own Cory Redding. Interestingly enough, given the talk of how much weight that Chapman's added, Terrence Cody weighed in at 370 lbs, which is kind of mind boggling.

So, how does that relate to Indy? Redding is a constant on both teams, so he's a wash. Figure that Chapman becomes the big NT in the Colt's scheme, and Montori Hughes fills the slot held in Baltimore by Ngata.

I think we had some inkling of this based on Pagano's comments after the draft. He said that Hughes was a lot like Ngata...a big guy who moved like a cat. Then, he went on to say that that those kinds of players were rare. Based on that, it's not a stretch to assume that Hughes will be playing the Ngata position in the Colt's 34 scheme.

Then, I started thinking about Sacks. One of the reasons that Pagano was successful in Baltimore is that he managed to dramatically increase the number of sacks that the Ravens produced. His first 3 years as an assistant coach saw the ravens net 33, 32, and 27 sacks. In his single year as D Coordinator, they racked up 48. So, where did they come from?

The 2011 Ravens had 14 players record at least one sack. 26.5 of them came from Linebackers, 15.5 came from D'Linemen, and 6 came from DB's. Those numbers give us a pretty good idea of the importance of another LB than Mathis contributing, it's a pretty good indicator of why we took Werner with our 1st round pi

To fortify that point just a little more, 4.5 sacks of the Raven's sacks came from ILB (Ray Lewis had 2), and the other 22 came from the outside.

Right now, the only thing the Colt's lack that the Ravens had is a big time ILB. Some people will point to Free Safety and argue that the team has no one like Ed Reed. Maybe so, but if Antoine Bethea's on his game, he's a pro bowler. If he's not, I really like the kid we drafted out of Oregon.

So, that leaves ILB. Right now, I don't see anyone on the roster who has anywhere near the talent that Ray Lewis brought to the table. Angerer, Freeman and Conner are nice players, but none of them have the talent to keep Offensive Coordinators up long past midnight, trying to figure out how to stop them. It's a big hole, and you've got to figure that addressing it will be job 1 in 2014.

[BronxColtNYC]

Could freeman be the "ray lewis" or is he too small?

[schwamm]

Any chance this is what they hope Sheppard can become?

[BronxColtNYC]

Any chance this is what they hope Sheppard can become?

Wow. Never thought about that. Good point.

[ruksak]

Could freeman be the "ray lewis" or is he too small?

I don't know. Has Freeman ever murdered anyone before? 

[Tony Sullivan]

I would love Montori to be Ngata, but he's a really poor mans version. I just looked at their combine numbers coming out, and speed-wise they're basically a draw. What I really notice in Ngata's favour though is he jumped about 6 inches higher and further than Hughes, and put up 15 more reps of 225 (Ngata 37, Hughes 22).

 

But that's also why Ngata was a first round pick and Hughes wasn't. We'll give Hughes the time to develop his strength to take his game to the next level. 

[wordofmouth]

You don't trade Jerry Hughes for the next Ray Lewis. 

[ruksak]

You don't trade Jerry Hughes for the next Ray Lewis. 

Griggs could sell ice water to an Eskimo.

[TKnight24]

You don't trade Jerry Hughes for the next Ray Lewis.

The OP said could Freeman be the next Ray Lewis. We didn't trade for Freeman

[Carlos Danger]

I don't know. Has Freeman ever murdered anyone before? 

post of the year nominee...

[Crunked]

To the Original poster.....first off (great post) but on the ILB. I don't think we know if our Ray Lewis is on the roster or not. Freeman was essentially a rookie to the NFL last year on an incomplete 3-4 roster. To me, I saw a lot of promise given those two difficulties. Angerer, it was his first year in the defense, an incomplete defense, and he was injured all year.....so we don't know what his ceiling is either. I love the potential of what the duo could become, and I am willing to give them this season to show what they can do.

[wordofmouth]

The OP said could Freeman be the next Ray Lewis. We didn't trade for Freeman

 

No, that was supposed to be for Shwaam, who asked if that could be the idea behind the Shepard trade. I forgot to quote him.  Not that I feel Freeman or Angerer could be the next Ray Lewis ( a bit of a tall order) but they both have a better shot than Shepard IMHO.

[krunk]

Sheppard was brought in to replace Moise Fokou. He's not much of a beast against the run, but has pass coverage skills on passing downs from what I've heard. I was also one that has spoken more than once about upgrading the other ILB position opposite Freeman at some point. I have strong feelings that it won't be C.O. Prime(could be wrong I guess), so I suppose we will have to wait until 2014 to get a top notch backer. We can certainly have a successful season in 2013 with the guys we have at this point though. They aren't pro bowlers, but they certainly are not scrubs.

[CjMcGirt23]

I don't know. Has Freeman ever murdered anyone before? 

Really? SMH

[bahhummbug]

I would love Montori to be Ngata, but he's a really poor mans version. I just looked at their combine numbers coming out, and speed-wise they're basically a draw. What I really notice in Ngata's favour though is he jumped about 6 inches higher and further than Hughes, and put up 15 more reps of 225 (Ngata 37, Hughes 22).

 

But that's also why Ngata was a first round pick and Hughes wasn't. We'll give Hughes the time to develop his strength to take his game to the next level. 

How do you know hes the poor mans version if you havent seen him play pro football yet >Just saying

[HarassedOffTheSite]

So, that leaves ILB. Right now, I don't see anyone on the roster who has anywhere near the talent that Ray Lewis brought to the table. Angerer, Freeman and Conner are nice players, but none of them have the talent to keep Offensive Coordinators up long past midnight, trying to figure out how to stop them. It's a big hole, and you've got to figure that addressing it will be job 1 in 2014.

 

Oh no!!! We must draft CB next season. THAT is no doubt our biggest need. A shutdown corner is going to generate the sacks you desire. ;) [/sarcasm]

[HarassedOffTheSite]

I don't know. Has Freeman ever murdered anyone before? 

 

LOL

[schwamm]

You don't trade Jerry Hughes for the next Ray Lewis.

If a player is already that good, they are already too expensive to get. So in my mind, Grigs and Pags look for guys with the potential to take advantage of the right opportunity to evolve into something special. No guarantees, but I don't see why it couldn't be Sheppard.

[Tony Sullivan]

How do you know hes the poor mans version if you havent seen him play pro football yet >Just saying

 

Did you miss my post where I was purely comparing their combine results?

 

That's weird that you would miss it, considering you quoted it.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

You don't trade Jerry Hughes for the next Ray Lewis. 

 

You don't trade a 31st selection for a 26th?

[HarassedOffTheSite]

And wasn't Freeman nicknamed the Ray Lewis of the CFL?

[Black-Vell]

Could freeman be the "ray lewis" or is he too small?

Nice post. Ray played what - 17 seasons? How many other Ray Lewis' have we seen in those 17 years? I would say maybe 3 guys get into the discussion - so maybe you dont need a Ray Lewis to be successful with this DEF. And if there is a way to make this DEF better - we have the #1 assett going in our favor to figure that out.

 

A man on the inside of it for 4 years.

 

C Pagano may not have invented this DEF - but you have to get a pretty good grasp of a DEF to make changes to it. I believe his understanding of the DEF & the fact that he has a blue print to build on gives us the ability to get more out of less.

 

Another thing going for us potentially is perception. One could say that the BAL offense just began carrying the team the last 2 years. INDY has never been looked at DEF first. So our DEF should always be complimented in some way by our OFF.

 

Not having balance is why we were so dependent on #18. The vision is clear - we are building a team to where superstars are not as needed because our strength is balance.

 

Just my opinion - a little long because maybe this helps explain why I make negative comments about picking up big names. No disrespect. I just think we are on the verge of doing something big here in a unique way.

[BronxColtNYC]

Sheppard was brought in to replace Moise Fokou. He's not much of a beast against the run, but has pass coverage skills on passing downs from what I've heard. I was also one that has spoken more than once about upgrading the other ILB position opposite Freeman at some point. I have strong feelings that it won't be C.O. Prime(could be wrong I guess), so I suppose we will have to wait until 2014 to get a top notch backer. We can certainly have a successful season in 2013 with the guys we have at this point though. They aren't pro bowlers, but they certainly are not scrubs.

Backwards. Sheppard was a better run stopper. He was terrible in coverage.

[BronxColtNYC]

And wasn't Freeman nicknamed the Ray Lewis of the CFL?

Winner!!!! Ding! Ding! Ding!

[krunk]

Backwards. Sheppard was a better run stopper. He was terrible in coverage.

Are you certain about that? It doesn't seem to be the case at all. From what I read he isto play a similar role as Mose Fokou did, which was basically a pass coverage linebacker on passing downs.

"A 2011 third-round pick, Sheppard started 24 games the past two seasons, including 15 at MIKE linebacker in 2012. Sheppard may compete with Kavell Conner at left inside linebacker in Indianapolis, but played just 521 snaps despite "starting" last season, and fared poorly against the run. He won't be an IDP factor."

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6620

Sheppard was strictly a middle linebacker, who was part of a unit that struggled against the run in each of the past two seasons.http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2013-04-29/trade-bills-colts-kelvin-sheppard-jerry-hughes-linebackers-nfl-draft

"Kelvin Sheppard is far from a three down linebacker for the Buffalo Bills after being a third round pick out of Louisiana State in the 2011 NFL Draft. This year, Sheppard made 80 tackles and two sacks in his 520 snaps. He was very poor against the run, grading out as ProFootballFocus’ 48th ranked inside linebacker, making just 24 stops. However, he was the top rated pass rusher from the middle linebacker position, generating eight quarterback pressures. While Sheppard was awful against the run, he excelled in coverage, allowing the least yards per snap of any middle linebacker in the league, surrendering .51 yards every down he was on the field." http://queencitysports.net/buffalo-bills-2012-position-review-linebacker/

[BronxColtNYC]

Are you certain about that? It doesn't seem to be the case at all. From what I read he isto play a similar role as Mose Fokou did, which was basically a pass coverage linebacker on passing downs."A 2011 third-round pick, Sheppard started 24 games the past two seasons, including 15 at MIKE linebacker in 2012. Sheppard may compete with Kavell Conner at left inside linebacker in Indianapolis, but played just 521 snaps despite "starting" last season, and fared poorly against the run. He won't be an IDP factor."http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6620Sheppard was strictly a middle linebacker, who was part of a unit that struggled against the run in each of the past two seasons.http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2013-04-29/trade-bills-colts-kelvin-sheppard-jerry-hughes-linebackers-nfl-draft"Kelvin Sheppard is far from a three down linebacker for the Buffalo Bills after being a third round pick out of Louisiana State in the 2011 NFL Draft. This year, Sheppard made 80 tackles and two sacks in his 520 snaps. He was very poor against the run, grading out as ProFootballFocus’ 48th ranked inside linebacker, making just 24 stops. However, he was the top rated pass rusher from the middle linebacker position, generating eight quarterback pressures. While Sheppard was awful against the run, he excelled in coverage, allowing the least yards per snap of any middle linebacker in the league, surrendering .51 yards every down he was on the field." http://queencitysports.net/buffalo-bills-2012-position-review-linebacker/

He was better in coverage because that's mostly what he was used for. He wasn't in on rushing downs for the most part. Here's a Buddy Nix quote:

Nix was asked if Sheppard was not a good fit in the new defensive scheme being installed by Defensive Coordinator Mike Pettine.

“I think that’s part of it,” he said. “Kelvin is a true middle linebacker–a guy that’s going to play from C-gap to C-gap and he can do that downhill.”

The C gap is the space between the tackle and tight end.

When a running play is called generally it will specify which gap the runner should run towards. Conversely a defending player might 'shoot the gap' and exploit the space between offensive lineman and the tight end. Shooting the "C" gap would involve running between the tackle and tight end on either side of the offensive line.

He was used mostly as a nickel, it didn't help that the bills d line was atrocious.

Here's his draft analysis:

Coverage: When dropping into coverage, Sheppard keeps his pad level low and his eyes in the backfield reading the quarterback. However, his good initial technique is washed over because of his tight hips and limited quickness. In zone coverage, he lacks the necessary feel for the routes developing often ending up out of position. Sheppard's tight hips make him a liability in man coverage as he struggles to turn and run with backs and tight ends.

Run defense: Sheppard does a good job keeping low and using his hands to lock out potential blockers. However, he is often caught hand fighting rather than disengaging. While in pursuit, he struggles to remain clean through traffic often getting sealed from the play. Sheppard's best attribute is his ability to step up towards the line and hold strong at the point of attack.

Maybe we are both wrong. I guess we'll just wait and see how it turns out regardless, I like the trade.

http://www.sbnation.com/2011/3/16/2042422/kelvin-sheppard-nfl-draft-scouting-report

[BronxColtNYC]

Are you certain about that? It doesn't seem to be the case at all. From what I read he isto play a similar role as Mose Fokou did, which was basically a pass coverage linebacker on passing downs."A 2011 third-round pick, Sheppard started 24 games the past two seasons, including 15 at MIKE linebacker in 2012. Sheppard may compete with Kavell Conner at left inside linebacker in Indianapolis, but played just 521 snaps despite "starting" last season, and fared poorly against the run. He won't be an IDP factor."http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6620Sheppard was strictly a middle linebacker, who was part of a unit that struggled against the run in each of the past two seasons.http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2013-04-29/trade-bills-colts-kelvin-sheppard-jerry-hughes-linebackers-nfl-draft"Kelvin Sheppard is far from a three down linebacker for the Buffalo Bills after being a third round pick out of Louisiana State in the 2011 NFL Draft. This year, Sheppard made 80 tackles and two sacks in his 520 snaps. He was very poor against the run, grading out as ProFootballFocus’ 48th ranked inside linebacker, making just 24 stops. However, he was the top rated pass rusher from the middle linebacker position, generating eight quarterback pressures. While Sheppard was awful against the run, he excelled in coverage, allowing the least yards per snap of any middle linebacker in the league, surrendering .51 yards every down he was on the field." http://queencitysports.net/buffalo-bills-2012-position-review-linebacker/

"In 2011 Sheppard showed decent two-down ability and his 7.8% Run Stop Percentage made him the 29th ranked ILB — ahead of Brandon Spikes, James Laurinaitis and DeMeco Ryans. This year that number slipped to 5.1 and saw him ranked 48th of 50 eligible players, so it really depends upon which year is the best indicator of his ability."

Comment from a friend who is a rabid Jills fan:

"Kelvin Sheppard came out of LSU, but for the most part disappointed, I think the new D coordinator wants versatility at the LB spot, Kelvin was strictly a middle LB, I think you are a getting a good player.

Since in 2013, he will strictly be a backup, I think the coaches have a year to figure out which Sheppard they are getting.

[ConBro]

Could freeman be the "ray lewis" or is he too small?

His nickname in the locker room is "Baby Ray", as in Ray Lewis

[Crunked]

He was better in coverage because that's mostly what he was used for. He wasn't in on rushing downs for the most part. Here's a Buddy Nix quote:

Nix was asked if Sheppard was not a good fit in the new defensive scheme being installed by Defensive Coordinator Mike Pettine.

“I think that’s part of it,” he said. “Kelvin is a true middle linebacker–a guy that’s going to play from C-gap to C-gap and he can do that downhill.”

The C gap is the space between the tackle and tight end.

When a running play is called generally it will specify which gap the runner should run towards. Conversely a defending player might 'shoot the gap' and exploit the space between offensive lineman and the tight end. Shooting the "C" gap would involve running between the tackle and tight end on either side of the offensive line.

He was used mostly as a nickel, it didn't help that the bills d line was atrocious.

Here's his draft analysis:

Coverage: When dropping into coverage, Sheppard keeps his pad level low and his eyes in the backfield reading the quarterback. However, his good initial technique is washed over because of his tight hips and limited quickness. In zone coverage, he lacks the necessary feel for the routes developing often ending up out of position. Sheppard's tight hips make him a liability in man coverage as he struggles to turn and run with backs and tight ends.

Run defense: Sheppard does a good job keeping low and using his hands to lock out potential blockers. However, he is often caught hand fighting rather than disengaging. While in pursuit, he struggles to remain clean through traffic often getting sealed from the play. Sheppard's best attribute is his ability to step up towards the line and hold strong at the point of attack.

Maybe we are both wrong. I guess we'll just wait and see how it turns out regardless, I like the trade.

http://www.sbnation.com/2011/3/16/2042422/kelvin-sheppard-nfl-draft-scouting-report

Not meaning to be mean but....I would have been happy with a half eaten turnip and a bucket of mud for Jerry Hughes

[krunk]

He was better in coverage because that's mostly what he was used for. He wasn't in on rushing downs for the most part. Here's a Buddy Nix quote:

Nix was asked if Sheppard was not a good fit in the new defensive scheme being installed by Defensive Coordinator Mike Pettine.

“I think that’s part of it,” he said. “Kelvin is a true middle linebacker–a guy that’s going to play from C-gap to C-gap and he can do that downhill.”

The C gap is the space between the tackle and tight end.

When a running play is called generally it will specify which gap the runner should run towards. Conversely a defending player might 'shoot the gap' and exploit the space between offensive lineman and the tight end. Shooting the "C" gap would involve running between the tackle and tight end on either side of the offensive line.

He was used mostly as a nickel, it didn't help that the bills d line was atrocious.

Here's his draft analysis:

Coverage: When dropping into coverage, Sheppard keeps his pad level low and his eyes in the backfield reading the quarterback. However, his good initial technique is washed over because of his tight hips and limited quickness. In zone coverage, he lacks the necessary feel for the routes developing often ending up out of position. Sheppard's tight hips make him a liability in man coverage as he struggles to turn and run with backs and tight ends.

Run defense: Sheppard does a good job keeping low and using his hands to lock out potential blockers. However, he is often caught hand fighting rather than disengaging. While in pursuit, he struggles to remain clean through traffic often getting sealed from the play. Sheppard's best attribute is his ability to step up towards the line and hold strong at the point of attack.

Maybe we are both wrong. I guess we'll just wait and see how it turns out regardless, I like the trade.

http://www.sbnation.com/2011/3/16/2042422/kelvin-sheppard-nfl-draft-scouting-report

I like the trade too, we just had disagreement over what he does best.

[Tark The Shark]

I don't know. Has Freeman ever murdered anyone before? 

 

 I think you mean to say, got away with murder.

 

But thank you for providing for today's entertainment ruksak!

[ruksak]

 I think you mean to say, got away with murder.

 

But thank you for providing for today's entertainment ruksak!

That's why I'm here 

 

We have guys like Bronx, GoColts, Andy and FJC that provide the football knowledge and and analysis. .....and then there's me, the facetious jack-a-ninny that can't be serious for one minute. 

[ruksak]

Really? SMH

I check under my bed for Ray Lewis at night. 

[unitaswestand]

Don't underestimate the guys up front when evaluating ILB.   Ray Lewis we very good with Saragosa in front of him.   Once Goose was gone, his numbers went down.  When Ngata came in, Lewis's numbers got better again.   I think Freeman and Angerer are two very good linebackers.  Not prime Ray Lewis,  but very good.    If they have three big,  strong DLineman in front of them, it will make a HUGE difference in performance.

[BronxColtNYC]

That's why I'm here 

 

We have guys like Bronx, GoColts, Andy and FJC that provide the football knowledge and and analysis. .....and then there's me, the facetious jack-a-ninny that can't be serious for one minute.

Wouldn't have it any other way.

[BronxColtNYC]

Don't underestimate the guys up front when evaluating ILB.   Ray Lewis we very good with Saragosa in front of him.   Once Goose was gone, his numbers went down.  When Ngata came in, Lewis's numbers got better again.   I think Freeman and Angerer are two very good linebackers.  Not prime Ray Lewis,  but very good.    If they have three big,  strong DLineman in front of them, it will make a HUGE difference in performance.

In due time, we'll see Redding, Chapman, Hughes on the d line. Much like ravens had Redding, Cody, Ngata. Then our snipers Werner, Mathis, Freeman, Connor, and Landry will be in the box. Nobody will run on us. Bet on it.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

In due time, we'll see Redding, Chapman, Hughes on the d line. Much like ravens had Redding, Cody, Ngata. Then our snipers Werner, Mathis, Freeman, Connor, and Landry will be in the box. Nobody will run on us. Bet on it.

 

A lot of guys are counting out Killeen without seeing the first snap. Don't sleep. This guy is fast and hungry.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Don't underestimate the guys up front when evaluating ILB.   Ray Lewis we very good with Saragosa in front of him.   Once Goose was gone, his numbers went down.  When Ngata came in, Lewis's numbers got better again.   I think Freeman and Angerer are two very good linebackers.  Not prime Ray Lewis,  but very good.    If they have three big,  strong DLineman in front of them, it will make a HUGE difference in performance.

 

No, no...you're thinking CB. If we have two really cool looking Corners on the ends....then it'll make a huge difference for our ILBs! ;)

[schwamm]

No, no...you're thinking CB. If we have two really cool looking Corners on the ends....then it'll make a huge difference for our ILBs! ;)

Take a quick look. Is it dead yet?

[BronxColtNYC]

No, no...you're thinking CB. If we have two really cool looking Corners on the ends....then it'll make a huge difference for our ILBs! ;)

What was I thinking? Obviously you get your sack production from your corners. This is officially my last post. I am retiring from the forum and living the rest of my life in shame thinking that we possibly needed upgrades besides the CB position. My apologies to everyone here.

Happy cornerbacking!

Cheers,

The bearded one