The Fleener Report:

[dpete]

I've been saying for a while now we're set a receivers. Fleener is the that big bodied field stretcher that many are begging for, but Arians just didn't use him correctly. Blame some of that on injuries as well, plus TE's have a history of taking longer to adjust to the NFL. I can't wait to see Fleener line up at split end, with Hilton in the slot, opposite Allen and Wayne. Sounds pretty formidable to me.

[Jay Kirk]

One thing people in this forum have forgot is Fleeners ability to play in the WR set,think he will end up being very versatile in the passing game especially WCO.We are not hurting on recievers,but if we end up with Bey I wont be upset,think with coaching if hes willing to take it could be a major asset

[John Waylon]

People need to stop making the statistical comparisons to Gronkowski and Graham and these other top TE's... Fleener and Allen both should never get to those numbers as long as they are on the team together. When you have two great TE's splitting time, obviously the stats are going to negatively reflect that. 

 

Fleener is going to be fine.

 

If not, the Colts will be.

 

The truth that few want to consider right now is this:

 

Only one of these two will be here past their rookie deal.

 

Fleener and Allen will not be a tandem for us long-term. So if Fleener turns out to be a bust, meh, oh well. The guy had a blazing fast 40, the size and hands to be a top TE in this league, and he was our new franchise QB's favorite target in college, and they tore defenses up.

 

Spin it however you want, drafting him will never, eeeeeeever be a bad idea. After that draft, there was no one who covers the NFL who saw it as a bad move. It was the exact opposite: everyone thought it was a great chance we got, and we would have been dumb NOT to have drafted him.

 

This is just an extended tryout to see which of these guys is going to be our long-term superstar TE.

 

And if Fleener only turns out to be a Jacob Tamme to our Dallas Clark, my god, poor us.

 

[IndyD4U]

I've been saying for a while now we're set a receivers. Fleener is the that big bodied field stretcher that many are begging for, but Arians just didn't use him correctly. Blame some of that on injuries as well, plus TE's have a history of taking longer to adjust to the NFL. I can't wait to see Fleener line up at split end, with Hilton in the slot, opposite Allen and Wayne. Sounds pretty formidable to me.

 

Big bodied, yes ~ Field stretcher, no.

 

I would much rather have a 6'2'' receiver that runs 4.3 to stretch the field with that a TE that runs 4.5. We still need that vertical threat to open up the under for out TE's/slot guys

[FalseStart]

Pep will use him like he did @ Stanford...However, with the exception that he has Allen a better TE prospect (WR/Blocking) working the other side of the field. Rights and Lefts coming at the defense...

[magakillsez]

This year Dwayne Allen will likely to get more attention from the opponent's defense, so Coby Fleener will have more chances to make easy catches and plays.

[dpete]

Big bodied, yes ~ Field stretcher, no.

 

I would much rather have a 6'2'' receiver that runs 4.3 to stretch the field with that a TE that runs 4.5. We still need that vertical threat to open up the under for out TE's/slot guys

You don't have to run a 4.3 to stretch the field. Ask any CB going against Vincent Jackson...

[Hans Moleman]

Good move. Plus, Fleener's shown a good ability to block in space, so we could still run effectively out of a 3 WR set so long as the interior of our line improves. Allen's a prototype H-back and Fleener's built for the hybrid TE/WR role. Pep's going to have a lot of fun working these guys into the offense.

[AntonMcG]

Your missing my point, man, and i dont see how you could. Its not "wasting" a position, its the reality that he's not the #1 option anymore. Fleener got his numbers not by just his great athletisism to size ratio, but also by a very sub-par recieving corps.  Fleener wasnt running next to Reggie Wayne or sharing the slot with T.Y. Hilton. And he definantly didnt have Dwayne Allen next to him. I mean, he's the star at Stanford, But we also have the Star from Clemson, The star from Miami, the star from Florida International,ect... its the NFL, and think about it, if he is to have the same numbers in college than he shouldve been drafted by the Browns, or the Dolphins or the jaguars, teams with a sub-par recieving corps so he can shine. He's just not going to stand out in the Colts the way he did at stanford simply because of the talent around him. and even worse, dont expect Hamilton to revive his glory days by signing as his OC because Fleener was all Hamilton had at times, Griff Whalen, their best reciever, played injured most of the year. And the WCO will benefit a traditional TE better than a WR/TE Hybrid. Fleener is awesome and he will get his numbers, just dont be so let down if it wont be like his Stanford years.  Theres so many reasons besides him.

 

Ridiculous logic....

 

How many TE's in the NFL are #1 options consistently? Not even Gronkowski is... and if we pay two-TE sets and Fleener turns out to be as productive as Hernandez... who of course is the Pats #2 TE, then I think we will all be pretty happy. However it is much more likely that from a passing-perspective, Fleener sees more balls thrown his way than Allen, Allen is much more of a 'Hernandez' with his well-rounded game and great blocking skills, while Fleener is a pure-pass catcher with improved blocking skills and a legitimate redzone threat... much like Gronk.

 

Also, you do realize that Stanford's #2 TE behind Fleener is projected as a first round draft pick this year as well? Kind of demeans your argument. Most NFL recievers are #1 targets in college... I just do not get your argument in any way.

[BleedBlu8792]

People need to stop making the statistical comparisons to Gronkowski and Graham and these other top TE's... Fleener and Allen both should never get to those numbers as long as they are on the team together. When you have two great TE's splitting time, obviously the stats are going to negatively reflect that.

Fleener is going to be fine.

If not, the Colts will be.

The truth that few want to consider right now is this:

Only one of these two will be here past their rookie deal.

Fleener and Allen will not be a tandem for us long-term. So if Fleener turns out to be a bust, meh, oh well. The guy had a blazing fast 40, the size and hands to be a top TE in this league, and he was our new franchise QB's favorite target in college, and they tore defenses up.

Spin it however you want, drafting him will never, eeeeeeever be a bad idea. After that draft, there was no one who covers the NFL who saw it as a bad move. It was the exact opposite: everyone thought it was a great chance we got, and we would have been dumb NOT to have drafted him.

This is just an extended tryout to see which of these guys is going to be our long-term superstar TE.

And if Fleener only turns out to be a Jacob Tamme to our Dallas Clark, my god, poor us.

Not to say I disagree with you in that it very well could happen that one ends up leaving after their rookie contract, but the Pats were able to retain both Gronk and Hernandez. Many thought Hernandez was gone after Gronk got his extension. That offense runs through those two guys and with the talent that Fleener/Allen have I don't see why that can't be the same here.

I like the thought of having Pollard/Dilger 2.0 for a while again.

[BOTT]

People need to stop making the statistical comparisons to Gronkowski and Graham and these other top TE's... Fleener and Allen both should never get to those numbers as long as they are on the team together. When you have two great TE's splitting time, obviously the stats are going to negatively reflect that. 

 

Fleener is going to be fine.

 

If not, the Colts will be.

 

The truth that few want to consider right now is this:

 

Only one of these two will be here past their rookie deal.

 

Fleener and Allen will not be a tandem for us long-term. So if Fleener turns out to be a bust, meh, oh well. The guy had a blazing fast 40, the size and hands to be a top TE in this league, and he was our new franchise QB's favorite target in college, and they tore defenses up.

 

Spin it however you want, drafting him will never, eeeeeeever be a bad idea. After that draft, there was no one who covers the NFL who saw it as a bad move. It was the exact opposite: everyone thought it was a great chance we got, and we would have been dumb NOT to have drafted him.

 

This is just an extended tryout to see which of these guys is going to be our long-term superstar TE.

 

And if Fleener only turns out to be a Jacob Tamme to our Dallas Clark, my god, poor us.

 

Not sure why you consider that the "truth"

[sultan5]

Ridiculous logic....

 

How many TE's in the NFL are #1 options consistently? Not even Gronkowski is... and if we pay two-TE sets and Fleener turns out to be as productive as Hernandez... who of course is the Pats #2 TE, then I think we will all be pretty happy. However it is much more likely that from a passing-perspective, Fleener sees more balls thrown his way than Allen, Allen is much more of a 'Hernandez' with his well-rounded game and great blocking skills, while Fleener is a pure-pass catcher with improved blocking skills and a legitimate redzone threat... much like Gronk.

 

Also, you do realize that Stanford's #2 TE behind Fleener is projected as a first round draft pick this year as well? Kind of demeans your argument. Most NFL recievers are #1 targets in college... I just do not get your argument in any way.

Rediculous is a strong word. All the knocks ive heard on Fleener are unwarranted due to the system he was drafted into. He's not unproductive at all its just that he has to 'share' more than he did in college. Look, Man, you sit back and keep waiting for his first 1,000yrd, 10 TD season and i'll see ya in 4-5 years when our recieving core deteriorates enough to utilize a TE in a more desperate offense.Until then,  dont knock him for having 5-600 yds and 2 or 3 TD per year and no more, saying he's not as good as he was in college or he's not being used the right way by the Coaching staff, its just the system he's in and that his QB is fearless and the WR core around him is a great one. Rediculous? That bad? ok.

[IndyD4U]

Rediculous is a strong word. All the knocks ive heard on Fleener are unwarranted due to the system he was drafted into. He's not unproductive at all its just that he has to 'share' more than he did in college. Look, Man, you sit back and keep waiting for his first 1,000yrd, 10 TD season and i'll see ya in 4-5 years when our recieving core deteriorates enough to utilize a TE in a more desperate offense.Until then,  dont knock him for having 5-600 yds and 2 or 3 TD per year and no more, saying he's not as good as he was in college or he's not being used the right way by the Coaching staff, its just the system he's in and that his QB is fearless and the WR core around him is a great one. Rediculous? That bad? ok.

 

Rediculous isn't even a word...

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist

[IndyTrav]

For those that are counting out Fleener, I'd like you to look at something.

Coby Fleener: Rookie Year stats

GP 13, Rec: 26, 281 yards, 2 TD

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14900/coby-fleener

Tony Gonzalez rookie year stats

GP 16, Rec: 33, 368 yards, 2 TD

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/1231/tony-gonzalez

Antonio Gates rookie year stats

GP 15, Rec: 25, 389 yards, 2 TD

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/5362/antonio-gates

Dallas Clark rookie year stats

GP 10, Rec 29, 340 yards, 1 TD

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/4482/dallas-clark

Vernon Davis rookie year stats

GP 10, Rec 20, 265 yards, 3 TD's

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/9592/vernon-davis

Jimmy Graham rookie year stats

GP 15, Rec 31, 356 yards, 5 TD's

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/13232/jimmy-graham

It's way too early to call Fleener a bust. Lots of these guys on here if you look at their stats by season had pretty pedestrian numbers their rookie year and then busted out for over a thousand yards receiving their 2nd year.

That's not really fair based on just raw #s....

Gates was an UDFA, Graham was a 3rd playing behind Shockey. Tony G played with Gerbac, Davis with Alex Smith.

Of all the players, I'd say Fleener was in easily the most favorable position to succeed.

But diving into the #s even more. Fleener accounted for 7% of the teams Rec. 6% of yards, 8% of the TDs.

Gates was 8/12/9...TonyG was 11/12/10...Davis was 7/9/18...Graham was 6/8/15.....

So every single one of those TEs were responsible for a much higher % of there teams Yards, and Touchdowns when compared to Fleener.

[oldunclemark]

 I think you want to wait 2 years to evaluate a player because rookies dont know what to expect from the NFL and they may not be prepared for it emotionally and physically.......

 

and once they get a full off-season..they are ready.   

 

I think Coby Fleener will be the Colts No. 2 reciever (in catches, not yards) behind Reggie...this coming season

 

The new offensive coordinator (obviously) is very familiar with him

[chad72]

This is how Fleener is supposed to be played....I'm glad to see this but I hope D Allen isn't relegated to being an additional blocker when he's the more complete TE

 

The more complete TE should be the one blocking in-line more, IMO. Allen is like a Kyle Rudolph, he will get open in zones and be a good goal line threat but he is more like a Kyle Rudolph in the fact that he cant go as vertical as Fleener can.

 

Fleener is the one that can be used like a Dallas Clark or Jimmy Graham, both average blockers (Clark worse in fact) but very good pass catchers. But I do agree that our O-line additions does not require a max protect scenario and we can get by with 1 TE and/or 1 RB for pass protection thus having 3 pass catchers in space (Reggie, TY and Fleener) at a minimum with 1 TE and/or 1 RB in the flat as a last option.

[AntonMcG]

Rediculous is a strong word. All the knocks ive heard on Fleener are unwarranted due to the system he was drafted into. He's not unproductive at all its just that he has to 'share' more than he did in college. Look, Man, you sit back and keep waiting for his first 1,000yrd, 10 TD season and i'll see ya in 4-5 years when our recieving core deteriorates enough to utilize a TE in a more desperate offense.Until then,  dont knock him for having 5-600 yds and 2 or 3 TD per year and no more, saying he's not as good as he was in college or he's not being used the right way by the Coaching staff, its just the system he's in and that his QB is fearless and the WR core around him is a great one. Rediculous? That bad? ok.

 

Rediculous isn't a strong word, in fact it isn't a word at all.

 

For the record I would be delighted wit 600yard season from Fleener.... his highest yardage season in college was 667. What I will expect is plenty of touchdowns due to his redzone appeal.

[sultan5]

Ok. so i looked up how to spell ridiculous. I was wondering what you all were talking about.  Of course its a word...i use it all the time...

[Superman]

That's not really fair based on just raw #s....

Gates was an UDFA, Graham was a 3rd playing behind Shockey. Tony G played with Gerbac, Davis with Alex Smith.

 

 

I don't know how that's relevant, not when the point is that there's been a lot of good tight ends who had underwhelming rookie seasons.

[IndyTrav]

I don't know how that's relevant, not when the point is that there's been a lot of good tight ends who had underwhelming rookie seasons.

Football is the ultimate team game. Everything is relevant.

From your draft spot, to whom you play with, to what scheme you run etc.

You don't find it relevant that in the case of Gates, who was an UDFA, that didn't play football, played "better" than the highest drafted TE, playing with his college QB?

[Superman]

Football is the ultimate team game. Everything is relevant.

From your draft spot, to whom you play with, to what scheme you run etc.

You don't find it relevant that in the case of Gates, who was an UDFA, that didn't play football, played "better" than the highest drafted TE, playing with his college QB?

 

Relevant to what?

 

If the point is that a tight end can have a not great rookie season and still become a really good player, then it doesn't matter where the player was drafted (or not drafted). Some are trying to project what kind of player Fleener will be based on his rookie production, and when you compare said production to other players at the same position, it becomes obvious that rookie production for a tight end is not a reliable indication of whether the player will be good down the line.

 

If the point is that we could have done better than Fleener at #34 last year, then let's throw everything at him. But I don't think that was the point of the post you were responding to.

[Valpo2004]

That's not really fair based on just raw #s....

Gates was an UDFA, Graham was a 3rd playing behind Shockey. Tony G played with Gerbac, Davis with Alex Smith.

Of all the players, I'd say Fleener was in easily the most favorable position to succeed.

But diving into the #s even more. Fleener accounted for 7% of the teams Rec. 6% of yards, 8% of the TDs.

Gates was 8/12/9...TonyG was 11/12/10...Davis was 7/9/18...Graham was 6/8/15.....

So every single one of those TEs were responsible for a much higher % of there teams Yards, and Touchdowns when compared to Fleener.

Maybe true, but it does give us reason to give him another year before we throw him under the bus or call him a bust?  Especially when his old offensive coordinator is coming in.  

 

And besides most of those guys are guys at the top of their position.  

 

Also I think what is happening is that last year, nearly everyone on the offense and played in the regular season over achieved for their draft status.  Allen, Hilton, Ballard, plus Luck did better then expected as a rookie.  

 

Fleener was the only one who didn't overachieve.  

 

Give him another year.  

 

And if he's a bust, no biggie, it's the rookie salary cap era.  He's not expensive.  He's making far less then our backup QB.  

[Dark Superman]

Fleener is far from a bust. The offensive line was a mess and Fleener was asking to block 80% of the time.. The guy could be a very good football player. Good hands,speed and size.. All the tools are there. He will improve and Pep knows how to get the best out of Fleener. Hopefully we can protect Luck and allow this guy to stretch the field..

[dgambill]

I'm happy with Fleener but I really didn't want him with the first pick in the second rd. I was hoping for Upshaw or trading back. I fully expect Fleener to be a very good TE but I didn't think he was as good as Allen and I still don't. Heck he wasn't even the best TE on his team with Luck. Ertz was a better all-around TE. Allen is the guy people should be excited about. I know and hope he will get better and become a great contributer I just felt he was over-rated coming out....he was in a weak TE class. We were lucky we got Allen because it really makes up for the reach on Fleener imo. Hoping year 2 allows Coby to grow and become special. The focus will be on Allen because I think everyone can see he is a special kind of player...hopefully this means Fleener benefits with better matchups playing off Allen's talent.

[CroatianColtsFan21]

Why are you sorry to say it? I would be disappointed if DA didn't bring more toughness than Fleener. That's not a knock on Fleener at all, they just have different games. Plus, DA is built like a brick crap house.

 

i lol-ed. thank you.