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Our Defense Played Well Enough


oldunclemark
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Let's not forget we had back to back no calls on pass interference. Our receivers weren't catching balls in theirs hands and Collins was floating passes but overall we played well for a team minus Manning with little time for cohesion. Running game was exciting and I thought Collins made good decisions on some bombs. Reggie fell which caused the interception and our line looked better than last week but still needs lots of work. I would give us a C+.

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The defense sucked sans Bethea and Freeney/Mathis. (What else is new?)

The offense sucked.

The special teams sucked. (Sans Pat M. and Adam V.)

The coaches sucked.

No, I'm pretty sure the D didn't do well enough. In fact, most of the unit got clobbered by a poor Browns team.

So despite the defense holding Peyton to 36yds after the 1st half they still suck yea? smh... the colts run defense is much much better... why? because foster wasnt starting and anderson and brayton got in more hence they were able to stop the run much much better.

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Couldn't have said it better myself. Who cares about ypc? Isn't it the score that matter? We couldn't keep them from scoring and we couldn't score.

I care about YPC you are the same fans that complained about the colts not stopping the run... well they did their job this game, its not the defenses job to put points on the board. this game was lost by the offense.

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This is kind of the point though why people are giving up. The defense for the most part did play ok. The pass defense was still terrible but the run defense was pretty good. The fact that they played about as well as they are going to and still lost to one of the worst teams in football is not a good omen.

You can't just separate run defense and say it was good, and pass defense and say it was bad. It's all defense and it was collectively not very good to say the least.

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I care about YPC you are the same fans that complained about the colts not stopping the run... well they did their job this game, its not the defenses job to put points on the board. this game was lost by the offense.

The game was a collective loss by offense, defense, and special teams. So what if Hillis ONLY 3.4 yards per carry and 97 rushing yards. He scored 2 TDs and kept the chains moving. I have complained more about our defense not being able to get off the field more than stopping the run. Without Peyton our defense is going to be on the field more often.

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The game was a collective loss by offense, defense, and special teams. So what if Hillis ONLY 3.4 yards per carry and 97 rushing yards. He scored 2 TDs and kept the chains moving. I have complained more about our defense not being able to get off the field more than stopping the run. Without Peyton our defense is going to be on the field more often.

The defense game the offense plenty of time to get back in the game, hence they got off the field on 3rd downs in alot of key situations but the offense never showed much passing wise. That also means the colts are able to stop the run, if the defense kept every RB to that avg they would be one of if not the best run stopping team in the league.

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Our D is not built to help out the O by scoring defensive points or generating a LOT of turnovers. The best our D can do is force a few punts/stops and that was enough in the Manning era. So, with a QB not named Manning, we were not going to change that overnight. Our D needs 20 plus points to be scored consistently to be able to keep the game close and make some game changing plays.

At this point, I think Painter has a better chance of winning a game for us than Kerry Collins, as crazy as it might sound!!! At least Curtis has watched Manning more, knows our O-line deficiencies better by virtue of that and might provide more 3 and outs than bad turnovers in our own territory putting the D in a bad spot with field position. Every time Kerry gets hit, if he goes down with a sack, it feels like a victory and that is not how it should be!!!

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The defense today was 20 times better than last week. They came prepared to stop Hillis and did a respectable job. Hillis got his 100 yards, but he averaged 3.5 ypc. That's a lot better than the 4.8 ypc they gave up to Tate last week. Freeney was able to get some pressure on McCoy as well.

The issue on defense remains our lack of size and talent. Does anyone think it's a coincidence that we play Angry Pat (bigger than Brackett) at MLB, and we do better against the run? Powers, Lacey, and Tryon all made a couple plays and a few decent hits. But, they got smoked in coverage all day. They were not able to match up against the bigger WRs of the Browns. Wheeler got in on a couple plays, but he's also undersized in my opinion.

How many times today were Colts defenders in the right place at the right time, only to miss the tackle? Guys got into the backfield, but couldn't make the play. CBs jumped the quick throws and screens, only to have their arm tackles run through and shrugged off.

The D-line is getting better, and Nevis has potential to be good. Pat Angerer is solid at worst, and can still improve to be a good MLB. Not sure where I stand on Conner, but he at least doesn't embarrass himself, and he can sure lay a hit sometimes. Bethea and Freeney must be the best pound for pound players on the defense, and their effects can be limited by running past Freeney and because #41 plays deep.

I do however agree with the premise that the way the defense played today would have been sufficient for a Peyton Manning-led team. Especially with the way the run game was going today, Peyton turns those Red Zone stalls into TDs, and likely avoids the turnovers and sacks because he's so quick with the ball. The trouble is, Peyton is not in, so that hypothetical situation is fruitless. The defense played better, but until the front office realizes that it's not about "being just good enough," and rather it's about "being the best," the defense will never "play well enough" to win games.

That's what I'm hoping the Polians figure out from this season and work toward changing for Manning's return.

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The issue on defense remains our lack of size and talent. Does anyone think it's a coincidence that we play Angry Pat (bigger than Brackett) at MLB, and we do better against the run?

Oh yeah, I feel Angerer is more natural at MLB and Brackett should be moved to WILL when he comes back.

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The defense today was 20 times better than last week. They came prepared to stop Hillis and did a respectable job. Hillis got his 100 yards, but he averaged 3.5 ypc. That's a lot better than the 4.8 ypc they gave up to Tate last week. Freeney was able to get some pressure on McCoy as well.

The issue on defense remains our lack of size and talent. Does anyone think it's a coincidence that we play Angry Pat (bigger than Brackett) at MLB, and we do better against the run? Powers, Lacey, and Tryon all made a couple plays and a few decent hits. But, they got smoked in coverage all day. They were not able to match up against the bigger WRs of the Browns. Wheeler got in on a couple plays, but he's also undersized in my opinion.

How many times today were Colts defenders in the right place at the right time, only to miss the tackle? Guys got into the backfield, but couldn't make the play. CBs jumped the quick throws and screens, only to have their arm tackles run through and shrugged off.

The D-line is getting better, and Nevis has potential to be good. Pat Angerer is solid at worst, and can still improve to be a good MLB. Not sure where I stand on Conner, but he at least doesn't embarrass himself, and he can sure lay a hit sometimes. Bethea and Freeney must be the best pound for pound players on the defense, and their effects can be limited by running past Freeney and because #41 plays deep.

I do however agree with the premise that the way the defense played today would have been sufficient for a Peyton Manning-led team. Especially with the way the run game was going today, Peyton turns those Red Zone stalls into TDs, and likely avoids the turnovers and sacks because he's so quick with the ball. The trouble is, Peyton is not in, so that hypothetical situation is fruitless. The defense played better, but until the front office realizes that it's not about "being just good enough," and rather it's about "being the best," the defense will never "play well enough" to win games.

That's what I'm hoping the Polians figure out from this season and work toward changing for Manning's return.

That's an important point when people start blaming the coaches. That means the right plays were called the players just didn't make them.

Now with that said I think teams have figured out what we do on cover-2 and figured out how to attack it. We need to make some adjustments. At least we saw less backing the corners off today. Still they have to learn how to jam and not let the WR get open so eaisly. I am not a big fan of Coyer right now. I think the defense does need a bit of an overhaul both in terms of coaching and players in it. I think we have a handful of guys to build around, Freeney, Mathis, Bethea, Powers, Angerer, and Brackett. I like Conner and Bullitt at times and are less problems on defense than other areas but if we are going to make changes on defense you have to change the players. I don't know, we've always talked about how this defense lacks a Warren Sapp like Dungy had with the cover-2 in Tampa Bay and we've said you don't get those kinds of DTs picking at the end of round one, maybe next year if we have a high draft pick we finally get our Warren Sapp.

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Some people seriously don't know football.

The defence was not the problem against the Browns. They played well overall. Not a complete performance but more than enough to win the game if only Collins could have led one TD drive before garbage time.

Linkenback's whiff when the run game was rolling really hurt too. Play action would have been nice there.

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Wow so much to respond to lol

You speak the 100% truth, but people will not see logic today. All they see is blood. They'll fail to disregard we held them to under 4YPC and forced fumbles and a turnover. Fail to acknowledge Bethea + Conner + Wheeler were hitting like missles. Not all, but some stragglers just want blood. It was on Lacey, and to an extent with HORRIBLE tackling, Bullit. The other 9 played solid (even the other two rotationals, including Brayton, played well). When your QB couldn't move around in the pocket if he was floating on air, you're in trouble. When he has ten seconds to throw a ball at times and either a.) Misses a WR that is open or b.) Takes a sack instead of throwing it away... well, long season!

Positive: Love the running game.

I disagree with the horrible tackling. I actually thought they tackled relatively well. The problem in most cases is that Hillis is too powerful to be brought down right away. He's one of those guys that always gets an extra couple of yards after contact no matter how many guys are around him. That's what I saw today more than anything. Not saying there were zero missed tackles, but overall I thought they were improved.

Without brackett they were very good, brackett would be missing some tackles and his pursuit would be lacking. the corners werent soft either cause i saw some very good tackling. lacey was getting man handled in coverage though.

I took the "corners were soft" to mean in coverage because both Powers and Lacey played soft on several plays, Lacey moreso though of course. An upgrade at CB is definitely one of the higher priorities for our defense.

Yess peyton hillis is average :loco: the colts handeled him well. The browns are known for running the ball and they are good at it, and the colts kept them in check so yea id say yea the D was pretty good... if you can stop a 6'2 250lb back you can stop any other back in the nfl.

Agreed. For the entire year last year Hillis averaged 4.4 yards per carry. For the entire game we held him to 3.5 ypc which is almost a full yard under his average. Any defensive coordinator in the league, imo, would consider it a win to keep an opposing RB to a yard under his average per carry.

True Blue...But we were short our middle linebacker and defensive leader..against an all pro back.

Brackett might have stoped hillis a few times..

I agree with everything except for this. no way, and this is just my humble opinion, that Brackett does better than the LB's who played today. Brackett's strength is in coverage, not against the run and against a guy like Hillis, Brackett would have been rolling off his back every time they came into contact. I think they played as well as they did against Hillis because Brackett was out and Angerer was in his place.

The D is the problem in my opinion. Among other things.

The D is a problem but not for the reasons most people are saying. It was the tampa 2 on 1st and 2nd downs. When the brown's passing game can dice you apart on 8 plays for 8 completions and 68 yards then there's a problem. Let me put that another way....when the colts played tampa 2 on 1st or second down and the brown's passed the ball, they did not force a single incompletion. These passes in the short middle zone where the MLB has vacated was open all game long and was the same thing in last week's game. It's going to remain that way until Coyer stops having the MLB drop into deep zone on 1st/2nd down. On 3rd downs, the tampa 2 was successful when it was used. The Browns passed the ball 10 times on 3rd downs but the tampa 2 was only used 3 times. McCoy was 1/3 for 8 yards. When not using the tampa 2, McCoy was 4/7 for 61 yards and a TD. That TD was I believe the first Brown's score. The DL put pressure on McCoy but his mobility kept him from getting taken down and once he got free he was able to find the small hole in the back corner of the endzone. But from a purely executional standpoint, the majority of the defense did their part with the exception of the secondary. The DL got pressure, forced McCoy out of the pocket and to throw a much lower percentage pass on the run. Had the coverage been better that would have been an incompletion or possibly even an interception.

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Yea. the Browns have a mediocre off. Hillis or not. And no we didnt 'handle him well' he ran a 15+yd GW dagger into the endzone. He also finished with 117 total yards and 2 touchdowns. Please explain to me how that is handled.

The 24 yard TD run in the 4th quarter was very simple...we gambled on a blitz and it didn't work. I fully believe the run was meant to go up the middle but the middle was clogged by a run blitz from our LB's. Hillis was fortunate to cut back to the side where Bullitt was the only person in good position to make the play. People can love Bullitt or hate him, but if you expect him to take down a 250 lb power runner like Hillis 1 on 1 then your expectations are far too high. The LB's had to gang tackle him...how could you expect Bullitt, who gives up 50 lbs to Hillis, to be able to make that stop? Polamalu may be the only safety in the league who could take a guy like Hillis down 1 on 1 on a consistent enough basis for you to expect him to be able to do it.

The browns can run the ball!!! mediocre or not. and that 15yd td would have never happened if bullit would have tackled him which he should have there was no excuse for that and your wrong...

he finished with 27 carries for 94yds... that equates to 3.4yds a carry so if you exclude the 15yd run and its lower... so there's your explanation.

See my response to the previous quote for why I disagree about your statement about Bullitt. Otherwise I am in total agreement with you. Up to the TD run, the Colts had held Hillis to 23 carries for 61 yards which comes to a 2.7 yard per carry average. The defense did their job on Hillis for over 3.5 quarters but no matter how good your defense is, when they keep giving the ball to a guy like Hillis, odds are he's going to break one for a big gain at some point. If the offense had been able to put some more points on the board, or if our beloved tampa 2 hadn't been used so innefectively on 1st and 2nd downs then the browns wouldn't have been in 3rd and 1 so many times.

Our offense's inepitude finally broke the defense's back in the 4th quarter.

Fully agree with you.

You take those two field goals away and whats the score? in the first half it was punt punt punt TD... the defense held their own but cause of the offense they had to try to hold up more they they can.. and i take back the 15 yarder it was 24yd run... if that didnt happen and it shouldnt have, his avg would have been down big time... the colts handled the running game.

Fully agreed...like I said above, up to the point just before the TD run the defense had held Hillis, who averaged 4.4 ypc last year, to only 2.7. How anyone does not consider that a win is beyond me, especially considering the majority of complaints about our defense not only recently but in the past decade is the fact that we "can't stop the run".

So despite the defense holding Peyton to 36yds after the 1st half they still suck yea? smh... the colts run defense is much much better... why? because foster wasnt starting and anderson and brayton got in more hence they were able to stop the run much much better.

Yeah I didn't see Foster but a few times and that's a good thing. I think another thing that really helped was having Angerer at MLB. IMO he showed a better ability to determine if the play was going to be a run or not. There was not a single run play where Angerer took a full step backwards after the ball as snapped...and the biggest part of the tampa 2 is having the MLB drop into deep coverage. Now either the colts got very lucky and did not call the tampa 2 on every single running play the browns called, or Angerer did a magnificent job at recognizing the play and attacking the LOS when he was supposed to.

You can't just separate run defense and say it was good, and pass defense and say it was bad. It's all defense and it was collectively not very good to say the least.

Wow that's just incredible that you believe that. How do you think coaches determine which parts of their game need the most improvement? Do you think when they play a bad game they just turn around and coach everything all over again? No of course not. They look for areas where the players fulfilled their responsibility and then others where the player did not. They then make those negative plays the focus and work harder on fixing those issues than working on things the player already does well.

The game was a collective loss by offense, defense, and special teams. So what if Hillis ONLY 3.4 yards per carry and 97 rushing yards. He scored 2 TDs and kept the chains moving. I have complained more about our defense not being able to get off the field more than stopping the run. Without Peyton our defense is going to be on the field more often.

Our defense can't get off the field because they give up so many yards on first and second down with the tampa 2. Yeah in a lot of cases it was Hillis running for a first down, but how many of those were 3rd and short? If we stop using the tampa 2 on early downs and stop opening up that middle of the zone right in front of the MLB then they stop getting 8 yard gains on first and second down. That gives us a vastly better chance to keep them in a 3rd and 5 or more which changes things completely.

Our D is not built to help out the O by scoring defensive points or generating a LOT of turnovers.

Actually that's not entirely true...Freeney and Mathis have spent years perfecting the strip/sack and part of the philosophy of our defense is creating pressure with elite pass rushers in attempt to force errant passes that hopefully can get picked off at least on a semi-regular occasion. There were actually a few opportunities for that today but the CB's couldn't make the play.

I agreed with the majority of your post so removed quite a bit just to try to keep this post of mine from taking up the whole page lol

Hillis got his 100 yards Actually he finished with 94...I wouldn't normally nitpick over 6 yards but we can definitively say we kept him under 100 yards :D

The issue on defense remains our lack of size and talent.Talent yes but size not so much, at least not where it was even 3 years ago. There are definitely a few spots where we need to upgrade though...we play Angry Pat (bigger than BrackettI am by no means a supporter of Brackett but to be fair, he is 5'11" and 235 lbs whereas Angry Pat is 6'0" and 235 lbs. They're virtually the same size. However Angerer has better speed, I think he diagnosed the play quicker than Brackett and I also think he sheds blocks better and is an overall better tackler) at MLB, and we do better against the run? Wheeler got in on a couple plays, but he's also undersized in my opinion.Not counting Triplett who may or may not get cut again once Brackett and Sims are healthy, Wheeler and Conner are actually our 2 biggest LB's...both of them in the 6'1-6'2 range and both are over 240 lbs. :)

How many times today were Colts defenders in the right place at the right time, only to miss the tackle? Guys got into the backfield, but couldn't make the play.I agree that the front 7 were in the backfield a lot and did give up quite a bit of yardage after first contact, but at the same time I put some of that simply on the size and sheer power of Hillis. Guys like him are going to get an extra yard or 2 after first contact. It could have been much, much worse...think of our guys in Jax a few years back getting their hands on MJD who knows how many times only to slide off him and give up huge gains. Not saying it can't get better, but there are some RB's who you just aren't going to be able to keep from getting a few extra tough yards

Pat Angerer is solid at worst, and can still improve to be a good MLB. Not sure where I stand on Conner, but he at least doesn't embarrass himselfHe and Angerer are still young, both only now starting their second seasons...I think they both have the potential to be good, solid players so at the very worst they seem so far worth keeping around for quality depth should we be able to sign a higher profile LB at either position

That's an important point ...

I think the problem is teams have figured out how to exploit our tampa 2. When angerer starts running backwards, bad things happen unless it's 3rd down. On 3rd down passes where Angerer dropped deep, McCoy was only 1 for 3 for 8 yards and no first downs. With Angerer dropped deep on 1st and 2nd down, McCoy was 8 of 8 for 68 yards. When you're giving up over 8 yards per play on 1st or 2nd down, you're constantly putting the defense in a difficult situation on a 3rd and short, that is unless the 1st or 2nd down pass gets you the first down anyway. All other passing plays where Angerer didn't drop deep, Mccoy was 12 of 22 for 119 yards with 1 TD and a forced fumble but there was also at least 1 almost interception. I've already mentioned about the TD in one of my replies above.

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The Colts loss their home opener (in a week where they were supposedly playing with a chip on their shoulders) to the team ranked last (32nd!) in the NFL.....

NUFF SAID!!

Not saying you're wrong about Cleveland's rank, but I don't see how they could be last coming into this week when you look at the Chiefs' and the Seahawks' abysmal performances.

Overall I think the team improved dramatically over last week. But it was easy to see the Defense was tired by the end of the game. Thought they played well for three quarters though.

The offense still misfired several times but I saw some things to be encouraged about. We actually went no huddle a few times which I did not expect at all. I noticed more audibles called which I didn't notice at all last week. Almost seemed like we ran whatever play was called last week no matter what.

The redzone is really my biggest concern. Twenty eight points instead of twelve would have put the game away. But my friend at work who just moved here from Tennessee a few months ago informs me that Collins wasn't exactly stellar in the redzone there either. The run game is going to have to improve even more to make redzone scores touchdowns instead of field goals, which can happen if we replace Linkenbach.

I can't decide who to fault on the touchdown in the corner of the endzone. It looked as though Powers started to move up to contain McCoy's scramble outside the pocket which left the open man due to Bullit floating toward the middle of the endzone. So was Bullit suppose to provide help or was Powers suppose to stay in coverage?

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Defense stinks, offense stinks. Hmmmmm.....Coaching Stinks!!!!!!! Why are we playing zone D? Manning is not out there, the chances of playing with a sizable lead are slim to none. We need to be more aggressive, soft zone is not working, obviously. I have not seen teams have such an easy time passing the ball on us as they have this season. When an opponent catches the ball, he is wide open and never challenged. Schaub tore us up last week, and this week we were dissected by a 2nd year child. Never thought I'd say this, but where the heck is Ron Meeks? Our old defenses look like the Steel Curtain compared to this group.

I suppose it's Collins' fault our guys dropped almost every pass? Ya, he threw some bad ones, but he was also on the money with some too. They were dropping all of them! Going no huddle was a good move, keep the O at a speed they are used to. But I still don't get all the drops. I know our guys aren't used to a fast, tight spiral, but dayum, they should have caught more of those balls.

On a happy note: O-Line played much better, almost a 180 from last week. Collin's had time (apparently doesn't know what to do with it or the receivers couldn't get open) and the running game was much improved. Definitely the silver lining of the game. Good job guys!! Keep it up, we'll start winning games!

Fire Caldwell now, while we still have a chance at a good season. Gruden and Cowher are both sitting on their * as talking heads right now, get one of them on our sidelines!

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The DEF and the coaching staff should know that the Browns are ultimately going to be running the ball and McCoy would be throwing but it will be quick short passes. The coaching staff did not make any adjustments to help manage that lead. They kept the same DEF out on the field. The Browns did adjust their DEF and stopped the Colts run forcing Collins to throw. The Colts coaching staff did not make any adjustments. Kept the same DEF out on the field and kept running the same OFF. Coaching staff is lackluster and should be making adjustments, which should result into touchdowns and not just field goals.

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Actually that's not entirely true...Freeney and Mathis have spent years perfecting the strip/sack and part of the philosophy of our defense is creating pressure with elite pass rushers in attempt to force errant passes that hopefully can get picked off at least on a semi-regular occasion. There were actually a few opportunities for that today but the CB's couldn't make the play.

Maybe in years past, it was. When we had the physical presence of Bob Sanders, Marlin Jackson and Kelvin Hayden in the secondary, it was. When we played good zone coverage with veterans like Nick Harper to go along with those players above, it was built to generate turnovers. NOT WITH THIS GROUP, IMO!!! We were still built to play with a lead then and the Pats/Chargers always ran draw plays when it came to the spaces vacated by the Frathis duo consistently, ran misdirection plays to take advantage of overpursuit by our LBs, and the Pats dinked & dunked us to death in the 2003 & 2004 playoffs (they couldn't do that as much once we got Marlin Jackson and Kelvin Hayden and there is a reason for that). With Manning, it just was never exposed as much.

There was a reason the Colts went with Marlin Jackson and Kelvin Hayden with back-to-back picks, if I am right, in the 2005 draft. Dungy wanted a physical presence in the secondary and that was lacking, due to which the Colts had to play with a cushion since they could not jam well enough physically and had to fear the wideout getting past them should the jam fail. Our D improved considerably once those picks were made. Since we cannot play with a lead as much now, we need the physical presence in the secondary more than ever. Melvin Bullitt does not scare anyone. Heck, he does not even tackle anyone :) (j/k).

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The DEF and the coaching staff should know that the Browns are ultimately going to be running the ball and McCoy would be throwing but it will be quick short passes. The coaching staff did not make any adjustments to help manage that lead. They kept the same DEF out on the field. The Browns did adjust their DEF and stopped the Colts run forcing Collins to throw. The Colts coaching staff did not make any adjustments. Kept the same DEF out on the field and kept running the same OFF. Coaching staff is lackluster and should be making adjustments, which should result into touchdowns and not just field goals.

Thats not true AT ALL. The colts defense got the browns offense of the field plenty of times in the 2nd half to give the O time to come back... the colts stopped running the ball because they were losing and had to start passing, collins was inaccurate the whole game throwing balls high and all. i wanna see how long the colts stick to collins.

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Maybe in years past, it was. When we had the physical presence of Bob Sanders, Marlin Jackson and Kelvin Hayden in the secondary, it was. When we played good zone coverage with veterans like Nick Harper to go along with those players above, it was built to generate turnovers. NOT WITH THIS GROUP, IMO!!!

Oh wait now...I didn't say they were getting it done...just pointing out that generating TO's is one of the primary things our defense was being built to do. Freeney and Mathis still get their strip sacks, though I think their production goes down this year. However if we'd had a consistently better secondary then we could have had a lot more turnovers from interceptions.

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In thought the defense was good enough.....we got a couple of sacks and a fumble..

Our corners are soft but the run defense was good most of the time...

We dropped an interception but, overall.... withiut Brackett...it was not bad.

The offense....well....what can I say?

I agree 100%. If Peyton Manning doesn't come back this season we can always rely on a our defense to hold our opponents to about a 2-3 TD win over us.

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