Fear Mongering For 2012

[Hal]

Personally, I think the season's done. Manning's projected to be back, assuming the surgery is successful, in 2 months but by then I think we're out of the playoffs, so looking ahead to next year, there are some scary things ahead and my confidence, as well as many other fans', in the front office is starting to wane:

1. Aging players who are slowly getting worse: Freeney, Mathis, Wayne, Saturday, Diem, Brackett are the big names that come to mind. I'm not too worried about this point since it seems there's a large emphasis on slowly but it is a concern.

2. Free Agents: Garcon, Collie, Wayne, Mathis, Saturday, Tamme, Lacey, Tryon. We're going to lose some of them and I'm not sure we can replace them. There's a chance Saturday retires which is scary.

3. Coaching Staff: I and, as it seems, a majority of Colts fans have no confidence in the coaching staff. I really feel like the front office is penny pinching on paying for quality coaches which is frustrating. It's hard to say with Peyton on the roster but I generally believe the Head Coach is the most important person on any team. I doubt there's going to be much change here.

4. Peyton Manning. From what I've heard there's a good chance he'll make a full recovery and be without neck pain which, in the best case scenario, means he'll physically be as good as before and playing without pain. For people who aren't sporty, pain is affects play even if you can play through it. Best case scenario: He's better than before. However, the worry is he's going to get worse. Not as strong, not as quick, might even retire. Scary business. Even so, he's only got a handful of years left.

[coltfaninnewyork]

Personally, I think the season's done. Manning's projected to be back, assuming the surgery is successful, in 2 months but by then I think we're out of the playoffs, so looking ahead to next year, there are some scary things ahead and my confidence, as well as many other fans', in the front office is starting to wane:

1. Aging players who are slowly getting worse: Freeney, Mathis, Wayne, Saturday, Diem, Brackett are the big names that come to mind. I'm not too worried about this point since it seems there's a large emphasis on slowly but it is a concern.

2. Free Agents: Garcon, Collie, Wayne, Mathis, Saturday, Tamme, Lacey, Tryon. We're going to lose some of them and I'm not sure we can replace them. There's a chance Saturday retires which is scary.

3. Coaching Staff: I and, as it seems, a majority of Colts fans have no confidence in the coaching staff. I really feel like the front office is penny pinching on paying for quality coaches which is frustrating. It's hard to say with Peyton on the roster but I generally believe the Head Coach is the most important person on any team. I doubt there's going to be much change here.

4. Peyton Manning. From what I've heard there's a good chance he'll make a full recovery and be without neck pain which, in the best case scenario, means he'll physically be as good as before and playing without pain. For people who aren't sporty, pain is affects play even if you can play through it. Best case scenario: He's better than before. However, the worry is he's going to get worse. Not as strong, not as quick, might even retire. Scary business. Even so, he's only got a handful of years left.

Well written post,but this team has and will continue to have major question marks.I agree 100% with this post.P.S. when i agree with the season is over i mean that we will not be in the playoffs.I still think we can compete for 6-8 wins,for us that's a lost season.

[Andy]

Very nice post. I do understand your worries, and yes it is scary. I feel like Reggie WAyne is one of those players that would take a paycut to stay on the team. He gets 8.5M now, and he should sign a deal that takes up 7.25M, so that we could keep Mathis. The Colts currently have 3M in cap space, and they are also going to need it to resign Pierre, who is still in his rookie contract. Collie is gonna need a bigger contract. Keep in mind that Diem's 4M salary is gone, because he;s gone. I say we keep everyone except Lacey. Jeff Saturday retires when PM does. Centers are one of those positions were you could last until your 38, 39 max. Jeff is 36 (June 75), so he has about 3 years left, and PM has about 4 left. Next year is a scary year....

[MCurtis32]

It's not fearmongering, it's reality. "Other" Colts fans get upset whenever one criticizes the club for any reason. You get labled a non or bandwagon fan. All this critisism is warranted and will be here all year. The Moderator will do her best to stomp it out. Fact is without Manning to hide this teams problems, it will become abundantly clear that the coaching staff and General managers have lost touch with pro football. Years have gone by with the same problems not addressed. How do you think the Bills managed to loose four superbowls in a row? Who was in charge during this time? lets call this a loss, Change coaching staff, fire all the general managers. Use this year to evaluate the players we have. Let the new regime draft for the future. Sucking going forward is better than sucking and going backwards. We are doing the later every year.

[21isSuperman]

Personally, I think the season's done. Manning's projected to be back, assuming the surgery is successful, in 2 months but by then I think we're out of the playoffs, so looking ahead to next year, there are some scary things ahead and my confidence, as well as many other fans', in the front office is starting to wane:

1. Aging players who are slowly getting worse: Freeney, Mathis, Wayne, Saturday, Diem, Brackett are the big names that come to mind. I'm not too worried about this point since it seems there's a large emphasis on slowly but it is a concern.

Freeney, Mathis, Wayne and Brackett are all good. Diem isn't as effective as he used to be and same goes for Saturday, but Saturday is still better than Diem. We have a tendency to take the BPA, so soon, we'll have new leaders on the team with guys like Castonzo and Ijalana getting experience.

2. Free Agents: Garcon, Collie, Wayne, Mathis, Saturday, Tamme, Lacey, Tryon. We're going to lose some of them and I'm not sure we can replace them. There's a chance Saturday retires which is scary.

We'll deal with this when we get to the offseason. For now, my concern is with the team this season.

3. Coaching Staff: I and, as it seems, a majority of Colts fans have no confidence in the coaching staff. I really feel like the front office is penny pinching on paying for quality coaches which is frustrating. It's hard to say with Peyton on the roster but I generally believe the Head Coach is the most important person on any team. I doubt there's going to be much change here.

Who could we get though? Cowher doesn't want to come to Indy if I remember right and Gruden took a team with an incredibly strong defense and a championship and destroyed them. We need more defensive help than offensive and Gruden is an offensive guy.

4. Peyton Manning. From what I've heard there's a good chance he'll make a full recovery and be without neck pain which, in the best case scenario, means he'll physically be as good as before and playing without pain. For people who aren't sporty, pain is affects play even if you can play through it. Best case scenario: He's better than before. However, the worry is he's going to get worse. Not as strong, not as quick, might even retire. Scary business. Even so, he's only got a handful of years left.

We'll just have to wait and see with this. Hope for the best

[Mitch]

Oh...so you're one of those fans. Giving up after 1 game? Please...you are way ahead of yourself...we have 15 more games.

1) Slowly getting worse? Freeney and Mathis(had a sack today) both went to Pro Bowl and started, and I don't seem them slowing down for a few years. Saturday is perfect for Manning, they've been together forever. Wayne had a sick TD catch today and I don't see his streak of 1000 yds fading even without Peyton.

2)Out of those players I would like to keep Garcon, Wayne, Mathis, Saturday and Lacey. The others would be nice, but not irreplaceable. We could always go get TO out of Free agency if we want a good WR. I don't see Saturday retiring until he and Peyton have a couple more chances at a SB...I just don't see him leaving, nor is he slowing down.

3) I've always thought a Belicheck-like coach with Peyton would be unstoppable. I do agree that we may need to reevaluate our staff but I don't see many coaches that interest me.

4) No one knows Peyton's future, so stop making assumptions or overthinking/reading about his situation.

I really think a lot of our fans need to chill out and stop dooming our whole season because of one game. Kerry Collins has been there 3 weeks, did you really expect much better? I watched some of the game, but unfortunately they weren't on my local stations. But from what I see they scored 34 in 1st half and were scoreless all 2nd half. At least we improved over halftime on Defense and finally scored. I don't see us doing near as bad next week and we will continuiously get better and Kerry will get more comfortable. Don't start thinking about next season till this one is over... and it's far from that.

[jbaron04]

lol we need to draft a nt and go 3'4

de nevis

nt ???? draft

de moala

rolb freeney

ilb conner or wheeler

ilb angerer

lolb hughes

cb thomas

cb power

cb ???? draft

fs bethea

ss lefeged

just a thought

[crazyrob]

If you're counting on the season being over, don't forget about high draft picks. That will help plug some of the holes.

[shecolt]

It's not fearmongering, it's reality. "Other" Colts fans get upset whenever one criticizes the club for any reason. You get labled a non or bandwagon fan. All this critisism is warranted and will be here all year. The Moderator will do her best to stomp it out. Fact is without Manning to hide this teams problems, it will become abundantly clear that the coaching staff and General managers have lost touch with pro football. Years have gone by with the same problems not addressed. How do you think the Bills managed to loose four superbowls in a row? Who was in charge during this time? lets call this a loss, Change coaching staff, fire all the general managers. Use this year to evaluate the players we have. Let the new regime draft for the future. Sucking going forward is better than sucking and going backwards. We are doing the later every year.

Exactly what are you referring to when you say, "The Moderator will do her best to stomp it out."?

If you are saying that the moderators are stomping out any criticism, I beg to differ with you. Take a look around. There are plenty of threads/posts that are critical. They are left as is unless they violate forum rules.

Also, if you have any problems with the moderation; you should take it to a private message. Calling out the mods in a post is against forum rules.

[wercolts]

Giving up after 1/16 of the season. ATTA BOY!

[WoolMagnet]

It's not fearmongering, it's reality. "Other" Colts fans get upset whenever one criticizes the club for any reason. You get labled a non or bandwagon fan. All this critisism is warranted and will be here all year. The Moderator will do her best to stomp it out. Fact is without Manning to hide this teams problems, it will become abundantly clear that the coaching staff and General managers have lost touch with pro football. Years have gone by with the same problems not addressed. How do you think the Bills managed to loose four superbowls in a row? Who was in charge during this time? lets call this a loss, Change coaching staff, fire all the general managers. Use this year to evaluate the players we have. Let the new regime draft for the future. Sucking going forward is better than sucking and going backwards. We are doing the later every year.

If you are gonna do that you might as well trade Manning too. Otherwisw , you are wasting not only $, but you are wasting the end of manning's career.

I could see maybe bringing in Fisher as head coach and a add new defensive coord, as I think he could possibly "bridge" the changes and give this team a BIG shot of adrenaline, so to speak. But a total overhaul would waste the few years we "might" have Manning.

PS, NO Bill Cowher! He was successful because of his defense.

Additionally, I don't think that even Irsay, Polian, and the coaches even realized JUST HOW MUCH Manning affects this team.

Even WE didn't think it would be this bad, if we're being honest. My gut tells me the season won't be "pretty", but i think it won't be as bad as the Texans game either. Somewhere in the middle I think.

I STILL believe if the OL can give Collins "some" time we CAN be at least competitive. The defense looked bad but some of that was having 3 mins rest between each series. The organization made strides to fill gaps on this team in the offseason and STILL are. OL, DT were especially critical and between high draft picks and bringing in people whose name we actually knew, our expectations were certaily exceeded. Between players available and $ available, I feel the team did reasonably well. Was it good enough? It never is. But I feel the effort was there.

I've decided to take this season game by game. I don't know what to expect and I don't know what is the best route going forward.

I'm just trying to keep my sanity and get thru this difficult time.

I really don't understand the "sucking and going backward EVERY YEAR" either. Last I checked, we have OWNED the AFC South, and have a Super bowl win and loss in the recent past. Other than perhaps the pats and Steelers, No other team has had as much success as the Colts over the last 10 years! We have been saying for years how this team (and Manning?) has underachieved over the last 10 years. Perhaps its the other way around, perhaps the Colts (and Manning) have actually over-achieved. And now that Manning is out, maybe that is becoming all too clear.

[Lodogg2221]

Personally, I think the season's done. Manning's projected to be back, assuming the surgery is successful, in 2 months but by then I think we're out of the playoffs, so looking ahead to next year, there are some scary things ahead and my confidence, as well as many other fans', in the front office is starting to wane:

1. Aging players who are slowly getting worse: Freeney, Mathis, Wayne, Saturday, Diem, Brackett are the big names that come to mind. I'm not too worried about this point since it seems there's a large emphasis on slowly but it is a concern.

2. Free Agents: Garcon, Collie, Wayne, Mathis, Saturday, Tamme, Lacey, Tryon. We're going to lose some of them and I'm not sure we can replace them. There's a chance Saturday retires which is scary.

3. Coaching Staff: I and, as it seems, a majority of Colts fans have no confidence in the coaching staff. I really feel like the front office is penny pinching on paying for quality coaches which is frustrating. It's hard to say with Peyton on the roster but I generally believe the Head Coach is the most important person on any team. I doubt there's going to be much change here.

4. Peyton Manning. From what I've heard there's a good chance he'll make a full recovery and be without neck pain which, in the best case scenario, means he'll physically be as good as before and playing without pain. For people who aren't sporty, pain is affects play even if you can play through it. Best case scenario: He's better than before. However, the worry is he's going to get worse. Not as strong, not as quick, might even retire. Scary business. Even so, he's only got a handful of years left.

1. Freeney and Mathis are still the top two pass rushing DEs in the league, and arent slowing down this year. They show no signs of it acutally...Wayne is good, but could be replaced with a high draft pick, or vet pickup, so not too worried there (chemistry would be hard to replace though). Saturday, Diem and Brackett all have replacements likely on the roster. Saturdays is most likely Pollak, unsure on Diem, though there are a couple, Bracketts is Angerer.

Id hate to see Saturday go, but there most likely wont be too much drop off in play, as Pollack seemed ok at Center.

2. Lacey can go. He isnt that good. I mentioned before that Wayne could be replaced, but if only one goes, Id rather it was Garcon if he doesnt pick it up this year from last (too many easy ones dropped when he can make the spectacular ones look easy).

3. That particular bus is getting crowded lately...if the next game or two shows the same preparation and lack of "fire" from the team, Id say it gets a whole lot more likely we see a change. My vote is Fisher...probably the best of whats there.

4. Ill be optimistic on this one. I think he will be better. No pain. He has had pain off and on for a long time...playing without it can only improve his game. With his work ethic I see no way he is not in the best shape ever by the time he comes back to play. He wont be sitting in a chair doing nothing until his first gameday...he can do cardio and light stuff fairly soon. Can be lifting before he will be cleared to play too...

[IcEWoLF]

Move to 3-4 and stand Freeney up....he can be dominant like Ware and Mario Williams and Clay Mathews

[dudeman]

Let's just throw the season for Andrew Luck like everybody wants, and when he turns out to be a bust, blame Polian.

[Jason_]

As for the coaching staff, if we were to seek another head coach I would like to see them go after Brian Billick. Yes he is an offensive minded coach which many people don't think we need, but he would address the one thing our offense has never been good at and that's the running game. Look at the offense he built in Baltimore that did their part to help win a superbowl. Imagine that offense with a QB like Manning?

As for defensive coaches...well first I think that Billick is also a good defensive coach even though he is more often considered for his offensive coaching prowess. I think he would help build a bigger and more powerful defense that would be better at running Coyer's scheme. Add some more talent with guys who are bigger and stronger and we might be able to have a defense closer to Chicago and Tampa Bay who basically run the same system but with a more physical philosophy. If that doesn't work out then I'd be all for trying to persuade Rob Ryan away from Dallas.

There are going to be some great players coming out in the draft next year so if we play it well we can really upgrade our defense. I'd address the secondary first. If possible I'd go after CB Dre Kirkpatrick of Alabama. Guy is a ball hawk and can make plays both against the run and the pass. He also forced 2 fumbles in the last game I watched when they played Penn State. I also believe he's 6'2" so he has great size for a CB that would help us against bigger receivers like Andre Johnson.

If we were to go Safety first then I'd go after either Mark Barron of Alabama or Bacarri Rambo of Georgia. Both are great playmakers and play well against both the run and pass. Not sure if Rambo will be coming out this year though.

Next I think we need a big, physical MLB and a big, strong NT/DT. I think we could probably get good, talented players in the middle rounds for these 2 positions. Same goes for a big, physical WR. Several good ones in the mold of Calvin Johnson going to be available.

There are a lot of people down on Addai. I have mixed feelings about him. I'd say he's about a B to B+ as a runner but A to A+ as a blocker and receiver. If we could get someone who is a better runner without losing too much in blocking/receiving then I'd be all for the upgrade but it'll take some searching to find this kind of player.

I feel pretty much the same about Dallas Clark. Don't get me wrong, I love this guy but he's an A+ receiver but only say a C to C+ as a blocker. If we could find a guy who's an A- to A receiver but B+ to A- blocker then it'd be an upgrade and worth it in my opinion.

I think if we re-sign Mathis then we should at least put some feelers out to see what kind of a trade we could get for Freeney. We can always re-sign Anderson and/or Brayton plus we still have yet to see Hughes' full potential so losing either Freeney or Mathis wouldn't be the end of the world. If we could get some good picks for Freeney then that would help us to get the type of players I talked about above and could help us upgrade several positions that badly need it.

Oh and if we have any further draft picks after trying to fill the holes above then I'd go go back to working on the Oline. Also try to do this in Free Agency. Try to get more guys that are better against the run that are bigger and more physical.

[coltsfanej]

Let's just throw the season for Andrew Luck like everybody wants, and when he turns out to be a bust, blame Polian.

I like it .

[coltsfanej]

Mathis and Freeney still on top of game and have a few years left. I thinks Saturday might have a couple more left, but is no longer in his prime. As for Reggie, he is still very much in his prime. Even if he does slow it wont matter. His game isnt based on speed. Its based on having great hands and route running. I think he could produce for 4 or 5 years if he stays healthy. At least 2 or 3 prime years.

[coltsfanej]

I dont see why everyone all of a sudden feels that Dallas cant block. There is no TE in the league that can block Mario Williams. Dallas is one of the best blocking TE that have his recieving skills. TEs arent supposed to be able to block Pro bowl pass rushers, if they can they are called Offensive Tackles.

[GoColts8818]

I dont see why everyone all of a sudden feels that Dallas cant block. There is no TE in the league that can block Mario Williams. Dallas is one of the best blocking TE that have his recieving skills. TEs arent supposed to be able to block Pro bowl pass rushers, if they can they are called Offensive Tackles.

enh Dallas's blocking isn't that great but I agree with you about the rest.

The first time it happened was Link's fault. It was clear plan as day Link was supposed to block Williams and Clark was suppsoed to help. Link for some reaosn went to block the DT realized Diem had him and quickly went running to try to get to Williams but by then it was too late.

That's what makes the second time so unexcusable they should have known based on what happened the first time Clark had zero shot to get Williams blocked because that play was designed for Clark to pick up Williams.

[coltsfanej]

enh Dallas's blocking isn't that great but I agree with you about the rest.

The first time it happened was Link's fault. It was clear plan as day Link was supposed to block Williams and Clark was suppsoed to help. Link for some reaosn went to block the DT realized Diem had him and quickly went running to try to get to Williams but by then it was too late.

That's what makes the second time so unexcusable they should have known based on what happened the first time Clark had zero shot to get Williams blocked because that play was designed for Clark to pick up Williams.

Right, he is no Tony Gonzo of a blocking TE, but i feel he is good enough for what blocking we need him to do. Especially with Peyton at the helm, which is the norm. I agree the second time was rediculous, either Collins is blind, the Coaches are blind or both.

I think Dallas fits what we do on Offense, It just seems that some people want to change our offensive scheme to fit Collins, which seems dumb to do seeing as its a max of 1 year.

[Jason_]

I dont see why everyone all of a sudden feels that Dallas cant block. There is no TE in the league that can block Mario Williams. Dallas is one of the best blocking TE that have his recieving skills. TEs arent supposed to be able to block Pro bowl pass rushers, if they can they are called Offensive Tackles.

I promise you that I for one am not basing my statements about Clark's blocking based on the game Sunday. Not even the best blocking TE in the league could go 1 on 1 with Mario. Heck most of the best OT's in the league can't go 1 on 1 against him so definitely a TE is going to have no chance. I'm actually talking more about in the running game. I'm not saying he's horrible, but I think there's enough room for improvement and we could take somewhat of a hit in the receiving department if there was enough improvement in blocking skills by making a switch.

IMO probably the biggest problem we've had in the past several years is that we go after guys who are truly excellent in one area but very below average in another area. We then pay them like they're excellent in both. Examples:

Player excels at liability at

Dallas Clark receiving blocking

Dwight Freeney pass rush run defense

Robert Mathis pass rush run defense

Gary Brackett coverage run defense

Joseph Addai blocking/receiving running **** (please see note)

various OL pass blocking run blocking

Eric Foster pass rush run defense (could balance out more if he played at DE instead of DT)

These are just some examples I thought of off the top of my head. Oh and the NOTE on Addai...I'm not saying he's a horrible runner or that he's actually a liability, but he's definitely not the best pure runner either. I think there's too much hopping around and indecision a lot of the time. On plays where he makes an immediate decision and goes straight ahead he can be good but he's not an every down, game changing running back.

So that's why I've been suggesting we part with a couple of these higher profile players that would get us some good value in draft picks in return and use those picks and the newly freed up cap space to upgrade these and other areas with more balanced players.

Yes if we were to lose Clark then we would lose a very big receiving threat. However we still have Tamme in the wings who can fill in as he proved last year. He is not the same threat level of Clark but I don't think we take a big enough drop off that it wouldn't outweigh the improvement we should get in whoever we draft with the pick or picks we'd acquire for Clark.

Same for Freeney. Yes he is one of the best pass rushers in the league, but we would still have Mathis and at least solid depth at DE. If we could get draft picks for Freeney as well and use those to greatly improve in other areas, especially in continuing to upgrade the DT position, then I have no doubt our Dline would still be able to get pressure. We would take a pretty big downgrade at the one DE position but if we can upgrade the DT positions and put in a suitable DE opposite of Mathis then I still think overall it is an improvement.

My biggest areas of concern where we need to look for upgrades:

#1 CB (if we pick up a playmaking #1 then I am more than comfortable with Powers at #2 and Tryon/Lacey competing for the Nickel DB spot)

MLB I really want to see us go after a big, physical MLB in the first couple of rounds.

SS I like Bullitt but like him more as depth at the #2 spot than having him as a starter.

DT I like what we've done so far with the DT spot but I still think we need to go for one or two more big, bruising type guys and move Foster back to DE

WR Would love to see a big, physical WR just to give Manning a type of target/weapon he's never had before

OL Duh....lol

[coltsfanej]

I promise you that I for one am not basing my statements about Clark's blocking based on the game Sunday. Not even the best blocking TE in the league could go 1 on 1 with Mario. Heck most of the best OT's in the league can't go 1 on 1 against him so definitely a TE is going to have no chance. I'm actually talking more about in the running game. I'm not saying he's horrible, but I think there's enough room for improvement and we could take somewhat of a hit in the receiving department if there was enough improvement in blocking skills by making a switch.

I understand that. The answer to that is supposed to Eldrige. With Peyton playing QB Dallas is asked to do much blocking. Bringing in a blocking TE and taking out Dallas can actually make the Running game worse. The reason is that Dallas is looked at as another receiver and can not be covered by many LBs, so this makes teams go to a nickel or dime package when he's in taking away a LB and adding a DB. If teams can keep a base front with multiple LBs it makes it even harder for us to run. And there are only a few TE that can do both equally well. The best being the Tony Gonzalez in prolly his last year. This need could have been filled in last years draft by drafting Rob Gronkowski in the 1st round instead of Hughes. It is very rare to find a TE that is good at both. Im all for it if we can.

[Jason_]

Right, he is no Tony Gonzo of a blocking TE, but i feel he is good enough for what blocking we need him to do. Especially with Peyton at the helm, which is the norm. I agree the second time was rediculous, either Collins is blind, the Coaches are blind or both.

I think Dallas fits what we do on Offense, It just seems that some people want to change our offensive scheme to fit Collins, which seems dumb to do seeing as its a max of 1 year.

I just want to clarify that I'm not saying we need to make changes on the offense for Collins. I think we need to make changes, or tweaks rather, for the team. Whether it's Manning, Painter or Collins it's clear we need a better running game and better pass protection. "They" have been saying that for the past several years and by they I mean everyone from fans, to the so called experts to guys in the Front Office. We need an upgrade on the OL (which was addressed in last years draft but can clearly still continue to improve) and we need to become a more balanced offense by being better at running the ball.

[Jason_]

I understand that. The answer to that is supposed to Eldrige. With Peyton playing QB Dallas is asked to do much blocking. Bringing in a blocking TE and taking out Dallas can actually make the Running game worse. The reason is that Dallas is looked at as another receiver and can not be covered by many LBs, so this makes teams go to a nickel or dime package when he's in taking away a LB and adding a DB. If teams can keep a base front with multiple LBs it makes it even harder for us to run. And there are only a few TE that can do both equally well. The best being the Tony Gonzalez in prolly his last year. This need could have been filled in last years draft by drafting Rob Gronkowski in the 1st round instead of Hughes. It is very rare to find a TE that is good at both. Im all for it if we can.

Right, right...I think we're basically in agreement. I think there are going to be at least a couple of similar type of TE's coming out this next year as well which also is a primary factor in my suggesting possibly making a move with Clark. It would also all depend on what we'd get in return for Clark of course to make sure it would be worth it. If we could get a high enough pick that we can get another top-ranked defensive talent then we could look around and see if there might be a Kevin Boss type player available in the 3rd-5th rounds. Boss was a 5th round pick so the possibilities are still there. Is he going to be the same receiving threat as Clark? No but he is more balanced.

I also agree that taking taking Dallas out could make it harder to run because the defense plans based on what personnel we use. But at the same time, they can also use that knowledge to know we're going to be more likely to run away from Clark instead of at him. If Eldridge is in the game and Clark isn't then we're basically telegraphing that we're going to run. So yeah these guys I've been talking about are definitely capable of creating mismatches and making plays, but on the flip side of that the defense can use these mismatches to our disadvantage as well. So these type of players wind up being very high risk but very high reward. When things go well, Freeney and Mathis get their sacks and sometimes even a fumble. When things go bad, the offense checks off and gashes us for 15 yards (or much more) on a draw play. Brackett may get an interception one play, but whiff on a tackle the next causing a huge gain. Clark could catch 10 passes and 2 TD's but at other times miss a pass block that results in a sack (possible fumble) or get overmatched by a LB causing our RB to get dropped for a loss.

[coltsfanej]

I just want to clarify that I'm not saying we need to make changes on the offense for Collins. I think we need to make changes, or tweaks rather, for the team. Whether it's Manning, Painter or Collins it's clear we need a better running game and better pass protection. "They" have been saying that for the past several years and by they I mean everyone from fans, to the so called experts to guys in the Front Office. We need an upgrade on the OL (which was addressed in last years draft but can clearly still continue to improve) and we need to become a more balanced offense by being better at running the ball.

I totally agree. We need to run the ball a lot better. Even if Peyton comes back healthy, he still cant play 4 more years with throwing the ball 40 times a game. An arm only has so many throws in it and the running game needs to take some pressure off of him. I just hope the FO can turn Peyton being out into a positve by being able to clearly see the holes on this team and being able to patch them up for next year when he is hopefully back at 100%, making us a much stronger all around team.

[GoGoColts]

One positive coming out of this season is that a lot of these free agents won't be able to point to the stat sheet and ask for big contracts. There have been too many offensive players who got more money than they deserved because of Peyton's ability. Dallas Clark is the top example that comes to mind. He never should have gotten the money that he did. I don't hate him, but he is a bit of a fraud. Peyton literally threads a needle to get him the ball a lot. In addition, we have seen guys like Rodney Harrison completely lock him down.

What we are going to find out for sure this season is that Garcon is basically no good. He failed to reel in a lot of his passes with Manning at QB. It is going to become apparent that he can't catch a cold.

The next big positive is that the fraud of Jim Caldwell will be removed. I doubt that Caldwell will fix the defense. Our offense will improve some, but it will be because of Collins finding his groove. Collins was sitting on the couch retired a few weeks ago. He wasn't in shape at all for the season in any sense.

In shore, this season is the chance for a lot of guys to prove themselves. Either they will or they won't. Most importantly, we will know where we stand.

[coltsfanej]

Some of the trades could make sense if the FO wants to make moves, as long as were getting good picks. If we do end up getting the number one pick, im not expecting us to but many do and it is possible, I think we would be better off trading the Pick than taking luck. The Falcons gave up their whole draft to go up and get Julio, and there will be a handful of teams that would be willing to give up a ton to get Luck. So we could very possibly get a 1st 2nd and 3rd round pick in this years draft and maybe a couple for next years. I find it very possible for a team to want to give all they can to get Luck. I think that would help us the most. We could still be picking in the top 10 or 15 have doubles at almost every other round.

Then we could take care of a lot more needs than just future QB.

1st round- I say take a big playmaking Wideout such as Ashlon Jeffery or Justin Blackman type.

2 second round and 2 3rd round picks- DB, DL, OL, maybe future QB if one we like available or TE if Dallas is gone or another WR.

We bring back Reggie and maybe Collie, let Garcon go and draft a couple WR. Drafting in twos seems to be a good way to fill a need, the way the Bucs did with WRs and DTs. We draft a G/C for Saturdays future replacment and get a true starting CB and DB depth. And help on the DL and LBs.

Though if they think Peyton is not going to be healthy or retire early then we take Luck.

But I expect us to be picking in the top 10 but not no 1, so a lot of this may not matter anyway.

[Jason_]

Some of the trades could make sense if the FO wants to make moves, as long as were getting good picks. If we do end up getting the number one pick, im not expecting us to but many do and it is possible, I think we would be better off trading the Pick than taking luck. The Falcons gave up their whole draft to go up and get Julio, and there will be a handful of teams that would be willing to give up a ton to get Luck. So we could very possibly get a 1st 2nd and 3rd round pick in this years draft and maybe a couple for next years. I find it very possible for a team to want to give all they can to get Luck. I think that would help us the most. We could still be picking in the top 10 or 15 have doubles at almost every other round.

Then we could take care of a lot more needs than just future QB.

1st round- I say take a big playmaking Wideout such as Ashlon Jeffery or Justin Blackman type.

2 second round and 2 3rd round picks- DB, DL, OL, maybe future QB if one we like available or TE if Dallas is gone or another WR.

We bring back Reggie and maybe Collie, let Garcon go and draft a couple WR. Drafting in twos seems to be a good way to fill a need, the way the Bucs did with WRs and DTs. We draft a G/C for Saturdays future replacment and get a true starting CB and DB depth. And help on the DL and LBs.

Though if they think Peyton is not going to be healthy or retire early then we take Luck.

But I expect us to be picking in the top 10 but not no 1, so a lot of this may not matter anyway.

That is exactly what I'd like to see us do...either trade down some for extra picks or trade a player or 2 to try and get additional 1st, 2nd and/or 3rd round picks. Then we could add to my dream draft which would be:

Rd 1: Morris Claiborne, CB, LSU, 6'0", 177 lbs (ranked #17 overall so might be a stretch to take him if we're picking in the 5-10 range...though we could always trade down a little bit and maybe get an extra pick or two or we could look at Dre Kirkpatrick #8 overall or Alfonzo Dennard #11 overall who are also both corners. I've never seen Dennard play but have seen Kirkpatrick and I'd take him in a heartbeat)

Rd 2: Vontaze Burfict, MLB, Arizona State, 6'3", 250 lbs (#42 overall but could very well move up and I'd be willing to spend a 1st round on this guy. I think he's exactly what our defense needs)

Rd 3: Mark Barron, SS, Alabama, 6'2", 218 lbs (bit of a stretch, he's ranked #65 overall so he'd have to slip a little bit...I wouldn't be upset to take a look at Brandon Boykin either

Rd 4: Kheeston Randall, DT, Texas, 6'5", 301 lbs, more of a lane clogger, best fit is nose tackle in a 4-3

Rd 5: Bobby Massie, RT/OG, Ole Miss, 6'6", 325 lbs

Rd 6: Either another DT (so we can move Foster back to DE) or the best OL available

Rd 7: Derek Moye, WR, Penn State, 6'4", 210 lbs

If we could make some moves to even get one additional high pick for a guy like Alshon Jeffery, Michael Floyd or Jeff Fuller then we could have the draft of the decade.

**edit: my "dream draft" was copied/pasted from this thread http://forums.colts.com/index.php?/topic/1682-2012-nfl-mock-draft/ and a couple of the picks I have should be credited to chad72...namely Kheeston Randall and Bobbie Massie.

[Hal]

For people thinking I threw the season out based on Week 1, the reality is I decided the season would be gone if Manning didn't come back. For a team who's offense and defense is built around having an elite quarterback who can destroy defenses, the reality is we're not going to win enough games to make the playoffs.

This post wasn't even directed towards what I think is going to be a dismal season. Whether or not you ACTUALLY believe we have a Superbowl shot shouldn't matter in this post. This post is geared towards the difficulties that lie ahead in the next off season, although I can imagine if you truly believe this season to be Superbowl salvageable, you're not worried about 2012.

[Hal]

Getting back on track for next year's offseason to what Jason wrote about drafting, I'd keep drafting offensive lineman. Assuming Manning makes a full recovery and only has 3 or 4 years most left in his career, I'd be signing the best linemen out of the draft and FA possible to make sure he takes minimal hits and is able to run the full offense. Anyone see the Pats game last night? At one point Brady was in the pocket for over 6 seconds before he decided to throw and even then he could've held onto it for another 6 seconds easy. Result? 500+ yards and 4 touchdowns.

[Jason_]

**edit...I have to rewrite post. I thought I was replying in a different thread. lol Guess that's what I get for watching the forums while at work.

[coltsfanej]

Getting back on track for next year's offseason to what Jason wrote about drafting, I'd keep drafting offensive lineman. Assuming Manning makes a full recovery and only has 3 or 4 years most left in his career, I'd be signing the best linemen out of the draft and FA possible to make sure he takes minimal hits and is able to run the full offense. Anyone see the Pats game last night? At one point Brady was in the pocket for over 6 seconds before he decided to throw and even then he could've held onto it for another 6 seconds easy. Result? 500+ yards and 4 touchdowns.

Getting as good as possible on the Oline by next year is extremely important. Along with getting a new young stud at Wide out to become the new number one(the way that Reggie played with then replaced Marvin) and getting better on D by adding some young talent through the draft. Strengthening up some of our weaknesses will help us prevent becoming horrible when Peyton is done for good and we have a new QB. We have to get better in the other areas because if we dont we will never be as good again for the fact that no one can replace Manning and do what he does for the team.

[coltsfanej]

That is exactly what I'd like to see us do...either trade down some for extra picks or trade a player or 2 to try and get additional 1st, 2nd and/or 3rd round picks. Then we could add to my dream draft which would be:

Rd 1: Morris Claiborne, CB, LSU, 6'0", 177 lbs (ranked #17 overall so might be a stretch to take him if we're picking in the 5-10 range...though we could always trade down a little bit and maybe get an extra pick or two or we could look at Dre Kirkpatrick #8 overall or Alfonzo Dennard #11 overall who are also both corners. I've never seen Dennard play but have seen Kirkpatrick and I'd take him in a heartbeat)

Rd 2: Vontaze Burfict, MLB, Arizona State, 6'3", 250 lbs (#42 overall but could very well move up and I'd be willing to spend a 1st round on this guy. I think he's exactly what our defense needs)

Rd 3: Mark Barron, SS, Alabama, 6'2", 218 lbs (bit of a stretch, he's ranked #65 overall so he'd have to slip a little bit...I wouldn't be upset to take a look at Brandon Boykin either

Rd 4: Kheeston Randall, DT, Texas, 6'5", 301 lbs, more of a lane clogger, best fit is nose tackle in a 4-3

Rd 5: Bobby Massie, RT/OG, Ole Miss, 6'6", 325 lbs

Rd 6: Either another DT (so we can move Foster back to DE) or the best OL available

Rd 7: Derek Moye, WR, Penn State, 6'4", 210 lbs

If we could make some moves to even get one additional high pick for a guy like Alshon Jeffery, Michael Floyd or Jeff Fuller then we could have the draft of the decade.

**edit: my "dream draft" was copied/pasted from this thread http://forums.colts.com/index.php?/topic/1682-2012-nfl-mock-draft/ and a couple of the picks I have should be credited to chad72...namely Kheeston Randall and Bobbie Massie.

I like a lot of this draft. I dont know a lot about the CB prospects, but we need guys that can cover and be more physical. Kirkpatrick has the size that we have missed, but Idk if thats just because the FO likes getting short DBs or what. Just as we do at WR. Idk why someone being over 6foot is a bad thing. If we had some corners with size, Andre Johnson might not be able to tear us up quite as easy. I'd like us to get Justin Blackmon, but Idk if he is to big for our FO to want him or not. A guy like Ryan Broyles has more of the size we normally get and would be available later in the second or maybe the third round as long as his character concerns pan out to be ok. Or maybe DeVier Posey or Tavarres King in the third round. I would love for us to get bigger at CB and WR, I just dont know if the FO agrees.

[Jason_]

I like a lot of this draft. I dont know a lot about the CB prospects, but we need guys that can cover and be more physical. Kirkpatrick has the size that we have missed, but Idk if thats just because the FO likes getting short DBs or what. Just as we do at WR. Idk why someone being over 6foot is a bad thing. If we had some corners with size, Andre Johnson might not be able to tear us up quite as easy. I'd like us to get Justin Blackmon, but Idk if he is to big for our FO to want him or not. A guy like Ryan Broyles has more of the size we normally get and would be available later in the second or maybe the third round as long as his character concerns pan out to be ok. Or maybe DeVier Posey or Tavarres King in the third round. I would love for us to get bigger at CB and WR, I just dont know if the FO agrees.

Well I look at it this way...they have realized that we need to get bigger on defense by drafting bigger DT's and LB's so hopefully they'll see the benefit in getting bigger at CB and WR as well. I'm not quite as concerned with getting bigger at CB as I am with WR but would love to see some size at both. As far as CB goes, I'd be fine with bringing Tim Jennings back and he's only 5'9" but he's very good in press coverage from what I've seen which allows the Bears to blitz. Kirkpatrick though...I decided to pick some players I wanted to watch this year and he was one of them. I watched the game last week against Penn state and he didn't disappoint. He played great coverage, was very effective against the run, was a good open field tackler and forced 2 fumbles. He did have one pass interference call but even the greats get them from time to time. I also felt, and the announcers agreed, that it was a very iffy call.

[BmoreColt]

Jason- I really like alot of your logic that I read on here. Especially your thinking about a new coach in the post about the "Caldwell Bashing." There are coaches out there that wouldn't require the Colts to make drastic changes to compliment what they do. I used to post on the old forum alot, but was always criticized for my thinking, since I would suggest free agent acquisitions that actually fit our system, and was told I was drafting a Madden Team. Really I know alot more about football than the people who were critical of me! Apparently going after a FA is the devil! (In my best Momma Boucher voice) I really like Vontaze Burfict, physical, fast, leader!