Coby Fleener really needs to work on his hands

[KarlKuffs]

Andrew Luck

If only Andrew Luck were still his QB. Oh, wait!

As it stands now, i'm supposed to accept that Coby Fleener has questionable hands, and this fact somehow eluded all of the professional scouts that graded him as being one of the top TE's, if not the top TE, in the entire 2012 draft. As usual, though, It did not elude the keen eyes of the football expert message board posters of Colts.com, who's sample size to make such a statement is watching on a handful of quarters Fleener played during the preseason on a TV in their living room.

[indy1888]

If only Andrew Luck were still his QB. Oh, wait!

As it stands now, i'm supposed to accept that Coby Fleener has questionable hands, and this fact somehow eluded all of the professional scouts that graded him as being one of the top TE's, if not the top TE, in the entire 2012 draft. As usual, though, It did not elude the keen eyes of the football expert message board posters of Colts.com, who's sample size to make such a statement is watching on a handful of quarters Fleener played during the preseason on a TV in their living room.

At least one pro scout thought Fleener was the most overrated player in the entire draft. I remember reading about it i think on PFT. That may not end up being right, but just goes to show that not all scouts see it the same way.

You can complain about fans seeing what they see, but Bruce Arians himself said Fleener needs to work on the receiving part of his game. Should we ignore his take on it too?

[KarlKuffs]

At least one pro scout thought Fleener was the most overrated player in the entire draft. I remember reading about it i think on PFT. That may not end up being right, but just goes to show that not all scouts see it the same way.

You can complain about fans seeing what they see, but Bruce Arians himself said Fleener needs to work on the receiving part of his game. Should we ignore his take on it too?

Working on receiving and "needing to work on his hands", the thread title that I am taking exception to, are two entirely different things.

[indy1888]

Working on receiving and "needing to work on his hands", the thread title that I am taking exception to, are two entirely different things.

No, they really are not. Considering Fleener's problem all of training camp was dropping the football, i would say there is a good chance that when Arian's says he needs to work on receiving, that he is including catching the football. Just a guess.

[Balzer40]

I didn't like the Fleener pick when the Colts took him. I had debates with people that were praying that we would take him. After a while the pick grew on me and I started to see the possibilities. I'm still hoping that those possibilities come true, but I'm also starting to see why I didn't want him before the draft. Hope he gets it together and he shows me and everybody else why we took him so high.

[KarlKuffs]

No, they really are not. Considering Fleener's problem all of training camp was dropping the football, i would say there is a good chance that when Arian's says he needs to work on receiving, that he is including catching the football. Just a guess.

Yes, they really are.

Hands are but one of the numerous aspects of receiving.

That'd be like saying that "working on throwing the football" means the same same as "working on arm strength."

Either you have hands or you don't, much like you have arm strength or you don't.

Educate yourself.

[Mouthfire]

At least one pro scout thought Fleener was the most overrated player in the entire draft. I remember reading about it i think on PFT. That may not end up being right, but just goes to show that not all scouts see it the same way.

You can complain about fans seeing what they see, but Bruce Arians himself said Fleener needs to work on the receiving part of his game. Should we ignore his take on it too?

That is entirely true. Before the Pro-day workout, Fleener was at best a late 2nd/3rd round pick, behind Allen and probably even Orson Charles. He may have shot up the ranks after the workout, but based on his college production and film, he wasn't even close to being the best TE.

[BOTT]

That is entirely true. Before the Pro-day workout, Fleener was at best a late 2nd/3rd round pick, behind Allen and probably even Orson Charles. He may have shot up the ranks after the workout, but based on his college production and film, he wasn't even close to being the best TE.

that's not entirely true...some reputable had fleener ahead of allen the whole time...heck some people had charles ranked #1. on a side not i can't believe people are making a big deal about a rookie te struggling a bit. typical over reaction...people were ready to move castonzo to right tackle after a few tough outings last year.

[indy1888]

Yes, they really are.

Hands are but one of the numerous aspects of receiving.

That'd be like saying that "working on throwing the football" means the same same as "working on arm strength."

Either you have hands or you don't, much like you have arm strength or you don't.

Educate yourself.

Fleener's problem all of camp was very simple, he was dropping the football, a lot.

When Arian's make a comment and says he needs to improve on his receiving abilities, what do you suppose he is referring to? Do you really need me to make the connection for you?

[NewEra]

I dont think you lose your ability to catch the ball. may be more due to timing, rookie nerves...I think once he gets his confidence up he'll be fine.

[indy1888]

Either you have hands or you don't, much like you have arm strength or you don't.

Educate yourself.

Pretty much every NFL receiver or tight end has decent hands. If they didn't they wouldn't be in the league or playing a different position. Does that mean they should never work on catching the football, since they either have good hands or they don't? You ever seen Reggie Wayne at camp? You should probably should send the memo to him because that guy sure wastes a lot of time catching balls from a Jugs machine. You seem to be implying that catching the ball is not something that can be worked on. Ridiculous in my opinion. If that were the case guys like Wayne wouldn't bother putting the time in. What do you think he has to gain from catching balls from a jugs machine? What is he working on? Is he working on route running while he stands and catches ball from the machine?? How strange is that, a pro bowl, superbowl winning, wide receiver still doing something as fundamental as catching balls from a Jugs machine when according to you it's not something that can be worked on.

As for me educating myself, i have an idea for you but i will keep it to myself. Not worth the ban.

[Gavin]

Its simple what his problem is, its mental, he is to busy thinking about the oncoming hit vs catching the ball once he gets that down he will be fine

[KarlKuffs]

Pretty much every NFL receiver or tight end has decent hands. If they didn't they wouldn't be in the league or playing a different position. Does that mean they should never work on catching the football, since they either have good hands or they don't? You ever seen Reggie Wayne at camp? You should probably should send the memo to him because that guy sure wastes a lot of time catching balls from a Jugs machine. You seem to be implying that catching the ball is not something that can be worked on. Ridiculous in my opinion. If that were the case guys like Wayne wouldn't bother putting the time in. What do you think he has to gain from catching balls from a jugs machine? What is he working on? Is he working on route running while he stands and catches ball from the machine?? How strange is that, a pro bowl, superbowl winning, wide receiver still doing something as fundamental as catching balls from a Jugs machine when according to you it's not something that can be worked on.

As for me educating myself, i have an idea for you but i will keep it to myself. Not worth the ban.

Read new era's post if your still confused on what the difference is.

[indy1888]

I dont think you lose your ability to catch the ball. may be more due to timing, rookie nerves...I think once he gets his confidence up he'll be fine.

Most of Fleener's drops in camp and in preseason were not a timing issue. Perhaps a concentration issue or nerve issue like you said although i doubt it. I agree that you don't forget how to catch the ball, but i don't agree at all with guy above that it's something you either have or don't and so it's not something that could ever be worked on. Fleener may end up being a great tight end but working on something as fundamental as concentrating and catching the football certainly isn't going to make him any worse. I mentioned Reggie above and when you see some of the angles he catches ball at off that Jugs machine it's easy to see why he has made some of the unbelievable catches he has made in his career. He didn't get that great simply because he had hands and therefore never needed to work at it. All guys are good at this level, some just choose to work harder and maximize their potential.

[indy1888]

Read new era's post if your still confused on what the difference is.

Quality rebuttal.

By the way, i responded to his post.

[Carlos Danger]

I think KarlKuffs has a good point, but there is no reason to take exception to this semantic difference. While it may not be Fleener's hands per se that are causing his drops (it could be a concentration issue, for example), the OP is really saying (IMO) that Fleener needs to work on his receiving skills, which is unequivocally true. I wonder if KK would have taken exception to the post if it was worded like that. I am guessing he would, but we will never know for sure. We ought all simmer down a bit. Yes, we are all just fans without the knowledge of the game and players that the professionals have, but, at the same time, this is a public forum and its sole purpose is for us novices to spout our opinions, regardless of their merit.

edit: maybe the forum has a secondary purpose of allowing those who do not share the popular opinion to voice their dissent in a relatively judgement-free environment... i'm sure nothing said in here is ever meant to be personal considering most of us have never met each other (that we know of).

[NewEra]

Most of Fleener's drops in camp and in preseason were not a timing issue. Perhaps a concentration issue or nerve issue like you said although i doubt it. I agree that you don't forget how to catch the ball, but i don't agree at all with guy above that it's something you either have or don't and so it's not something that could ever be worked on. Fleener may end up being a great tight end but working on something as fundamental as concentrating and catching the football certainly isn't going to make him any worse. I mentioned Reggie above and when you see some of the angles he catches ball at off that Jugs machine it's easy to see why he has made some of the unbelievable catches he has made in his career. He didn't get that great simply because he had hands and therefore never needed to work at it. All guys are good at this level, some just choose to work harder and maximize their potential.

As a pro NFL TE I would hope he still works on his hands. theres always need for improvement. having teammates like Luck and Wayne can only help.

[KarlKuffs]

Quality rebuttal.

By the way, i responded to his post.

And if you think Coby Fleener has made it this far in football having "hands" that are below par, then you aren't real bright. If you're saying that he can improve his production by working at his craft, then it's not his "hands" that are the problem.

I don't think this can be spelled out any more simpler for you, so if you still don't understand, there is little hope for you.

[indy1888]

And if you think Coby Fleener has made it this far in football having "hands" that are below par, then you aren't real bright. If you're saying that he can improve his production by working at his craft, then it's not his "hands" that are the problem.

I don't think this can be spelled out any more simpler for you, so if you still don't understand, there is little hope for you.

Where did i ever say he had "below par" hands? Needing to work on catching the football doesn't mean the guy has terrible hands. You seem to have a problem understanding. You think just because a guy is in the NFL means he has great hands and never needs to work at it. His "craft" is catching the football and blocking, so yeah when he works on his "craft", it involves his hands. Let me ask you the question again. When Reggie Wayne spends extra time at the Jugs machine in camp why is he doing that? What is he gaining from that activity? Would you say he is perfecting his route running in this activity? How about his blocking? Or is he simply catching ball after ball because he believes it has helped him both in hands and concetration? Why does he do it? He has great hands, so there is no need to work, right?

Now, go back to slinging insults at me since that is all you seem to have.

[Alf the Ref]

He's very smart . I suppose the best way to put it is ... he's 'downloading' right now .... like a computer. Once everything gets organized ( and ur coaching staff figures out the best ways to utilize him ) - that same player from Stanford will emerge . It's not gonna happen fast enough for some - but it WILL happen .

And , as he gets stronger and the jitters fade , he'll improve every year .

I wish my Bears woulda drafted him . But he's in the perfect situation .

The Colts are now my # 2 team . And I'm gonna be enjoying the ride , once it gets cranked up , with the rest of you .

But not till after this Sunday :- }

[chrisfarley]

Fleener's problem all of camp was very simple, he was dropping the football, a lot.

When Arian's make a comment and says he needs to improve on his receiving abilities, what do you suppose he is referring to? Do you really need me to make the connection for you?

i think he is looking to not get hit and that's the scary part of it. he seems to look up quite a bit

[KarlKuffs]

Where did i ever say he had "below par" hands? Needing to work on catching the football doesn't mean the guy has terrible hands. You seem to have a problem understanding. You think just because a guy is in the NFL means he has great hands and never needs to work at it. His "craft" is catching the football and blocking, so yeah when he works on his "craft", it involves his hands. Let me ask you the question again. When Reggie Wayne spends extra time at the Jugs machine in camp why is he doing that? What is he gaining from that activity? Would you say he is perfecting his route running in this activity? How about his blocking? Or is he simply catching ball after ball because he believes it has helped him both in hands and concetration? Why does he do it? He has great hands, so there is no need to work, right?

Now, go back to slinging insults at me since that is all you seem to have.

*sigh*

I give up. You can lead a horse to water.....

[Alf the Ref]

i think he is looking to not get hit and that's the scary part of it. he seems to look up quite a bit

I agree .... but he'll shake it off .

[indy1888]

*sigh*

I give up. You can lead a horse to water.....

Another quality rebuttal. Been a pleasure debating this with you.

[KarlKuffs]

Another quality rebuttal. Been a pleasure debating this with you.

Likewise.

I hope next time when 6 different people are trying to tell you the same thing, it might click for you.

[indy1888]

Likewise.

I hope next time when 6 different people are trying to tell you the same thing, it might click for you.

Except your the only one saying it. But hey, if it makes you feel good to think 6 other people are saying it, then good for you. Since you think Arian's was not referring to Fleeners drops, then what part of his receiving game do you think he was talking about. Love to hear it.

And just so everyone is clear on your stance. You believe since every one in the NFL has great hands that you can't work on catching the ball,correct? No wonder why you wont answer my question on Reggie.

[Carlos Danger]

As a pro NFL TE I would hope he still works on his hands. theres always need for improvement. having teammates like Luck and Wayne can only help.

You are a pro NFL TE? :eyebrow:

(no reason for this... just wanted to use this emoticon for once)

[NewEra]

lol no, but I did stay at a holiday inn express once!

[chrisfarley]

we are going to find out just what kind of man Mr. Fleenor is vs. the Bears D. He is going to have to take some hits against those crazy Bears players, I mean you just look at their roster and cringe for Tight Ends. As long as Fleenor doesn't end up being even 50 percent of a Pat Beach, then we might be O.K. (psssst: Pat Beach couldn't catch a cold).

[KarlKuffs]

Except your the only one saying it. But hey, if it makes you feel good to think 6 other people are saying it, then good for you. Since you think Arian's was not referring to Fleeners drops, then what part of his receiving game do you think he was talking about. Love to hear it.

And just so everyone is clear on your stance. You believe since every one in the NFL has great hands that you can't work on catching the ball,correct? No wonder why you wont answer my question on Reggie.

lol.....if you say so.

[throwing BBZ]

He needs to catch a few hundred balls from a machine everyday. On the other hand Dwayne Allen might be my new favorite Colt.

How many a day is he catching from the machine?

[indy1888]

lol.....if you say so.

Thats about what i figured. I ask you a couple simple questions and you can't answer them....again. Time to put you on ignore as it appears you just like to flame and troll. This will be my last response to you and i will have your posts hidden. Maybe when you turn 12 we can have a little better discussion. Maybe by then when you make a case and i destroy it with holes you can actually respond with substance instead of "lol...if you say so".

[KarlKuffs]

Thats about what i figured. I ask you a couple simple questions and you can't answer them....again. Time to put you on ignore as it appears you just like to flame and troll. This will be my last response to you and i will have your posts hidden. Maybe when you turn 12 we can have a little better discussion. Maybe by then when you make a case and i destroy it with holes you can actually respond with substance instead of "lol...if you say so".

You were told in great depth, several times, by several different people. Instead of admitting you were wrong, you're attempting to create some fantasy scenario where you "won" this argument. You're like a 6 year old. Unfortunately for you, people can go back and reread this to see exactly what went down. Whatever helps you sleep at night, though.

You better put me on ignore, cause i'll go at it with you every day for the next year, if need be. My guess is you'll respond to this within the next half hour.

[coltsfanatic24]

not concerned with fleener at all he will have a great game vs the bears.

[TKnight24]

I had a Vision of Urlacher chasing Fleener in Man Coverage & Urlacher blew his Knee out.

Does that make me a Bad Person???

[ColtFan12]

I figured since Luck and Fleener were teammates at Stanford, that they they would have it down. I am hoping they become what Peyton Manning and Marvin Harrison became.

[KarlKuffs]

I guess Fleener's hands are okay afterall.

Score another one in favor of the professional talent evaluators over the Colts.com message board braniacs.

Just as I thought.....