Dwight Freeney cut after today?

[IndyD4U]

Hughes continues to impress me with his ability to get to the QB. He could seriously turn into an asset.

That and his ability to get down the line and to the RB multiple times. The guy has played very, very well. It seemed like he was in on everything last night.

[MR. Blueblood]

Let me get this straight...we alread got rid of our best player ever for NOTHING IN RETURN and now we are going to let our second best player walk for NOTHING IN RETURN. That would make me seriously question the competence of the owner.

It's not so much the owner as the previous GM. Blame him for setting up the contracts in such a manner that trades were impossible to make and that the only way to cut your losses is to cut the player. Nobody (via a trade) is going to want to take on Freeney's contract this year when he could just walk out the door as soon as the season is over. If a long term deal could be reached where the cap hit isn't so high and he would be there for a cpl more years then maybe a trade is possible. Other than that he either stays here or he walks, there is no in between.

[FireJimCaldwell]

There is no restructuring to be done. That can't happen in the final year of a contract.

He can however be extended, and he can be extended in a way that will pay him more money in 2012 than he will earn in 2012. He would then receive even more money in 2013 and 2014. By doing so, it would lower his cap hit this year, make his contract a bit more attractive to other teams in the future if he isn't the same player in the new system.

One of the reasons Freeney's contract is set up the way that it is because his first 2 years of the deal he received a base salary of 750k, so that the Colts could have cap relief. Back in 2007 the Colts had around 3.4 million of cap space, and this contract more than doubled the cap space left for that year. He was set to make 9.43 million under a tender, and the contract lowered his cap hit for 2007 to 5.75 million. He had the same cap hit in 2008.

So the mistake wasn't the contract, the mistake is that he wasn't extended last year by Chris Polian, or extended by Grigson. The contract was set up to do just that by easily converting higher base salaries into another bonus which would extend the deal and lower the cap hit in the same process.

Irsay does sign off on these contracts, so if he has the full understanding of the cap that some feel that he does, then he knew what contracts were being offered. He's most certainly the one to be blamed for the last Manning contract if someone wants to throw blame out there.

[JoKeR]

I know this is bleacherreport...but well I think its an article well worth posting.

Apparently they think Freeney is not going to be on this team tomorrow.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1316628-is-today-dwight-freeneys-last-day-as-an-indianapolis-colt

They ignore logic sometimes.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Does anyone have a good grasp of the rules concerning compensatory draft picks?

Is there a certain number of accrued years a veteran can have that negates the team getting a compensatory draft pick if said player is signed by another team as a FA?

Personally I am against cutting Freeney ... I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I am curious as to the different scenarios and if compensatory picks would come into play if we do happen to keep him and then let him go in FA after this season.

If Freeney is cut or traded that transaction wouldn't be eligible for a compensatory draft pick.

Due to his experience(11 years), the most the Colts would be eligible for if he were to play out the year and then leave via free agency would be a 5th round compensatory pick.

Compensatory picks are also determined based on an unreleased formula, so with the impending shopping spree so many seem to be looking forward to this upcoming off season, the Colts might not receive any compensation for any free agent losses.

[JoKeR]

*reminder*

Hughes doesn't play Freeney's position. We all know Hughes history playing with his hands down.

[Superman]

You could be right Superman. But all it takes is getting beat once in coverage for a significant gain to blow a tight defensive, smash mouth game wide open 5% or not. Yes, this circumstance may be remote I will admit, but not impossible. Recovery speed does indeed matter in an OLB. If you can't cover effectively and I can't rely on you as a coach, I'm not putting you in that role period end of story.

I agree with what you say here. But don't you think the coaches are aware of that? No one is going to put Freeney in position to get burned in a crucial situation. That would be foolish, and I'd blame the coaches before I blamed him. But we're probably talking about 40 snaps over the course of the season where he'll be in coverage, and maybe one or two of them will he be in man coverage. I'm not worried about him covering at all.

[Superman]

Even if Freeney was playing his old DE role, I still wouldn't want the Colts to keep him at a $19M cap hit. I'm fine with him staying on the team even in a new role but only if they extend him or somehow negotiate a new contract.

If we're keeping him he very well should have played last night.

I don't understand why he should have played last night. I agree that we should do something with his contract, and I think that was the plan all along by the previous regime.

[StewieG]

I agree with what you say here. But don't you think the coaches are aware of that? No one is going to put Freeney in position to get burned in a crucial situation. That would be foolish, and I'd blame the coaches before I blamed him. But we're probably talking about 40 snaps over the course of the season where he'll be in coverage, and maybe one or two of them will he be in man coverage. I'm not worried about him covering at all.

If Freeney is forced to cover anyone it would be a tight end. And we have to remember Freeney is far from slow. He is probably faster than some tight ends out there too.

[bavanlan]

If Freeney is forced to cover anyone it would be a tight end. And we have to remember Freeney is far from slow. He is probably faster than some tight ends out there too.

I think it's an issue more of straight-line speed v. hip fluidity.

Freeney is only exceptional in the former.

[StewieG]

I think it's an issue more of straight-line speed v. hip fluidity.

Freeney is only exceptional in the former.

Oh I agree, I am just saying Freeney will most likely never get burned, unless Pagano has a stupid moment putting him against a wide receiver.

If that ever happens, then we can talk about him getting burned.

[Superman]

If Freeney is forced to cover anyone it would be a tight end. And we have to remember Freeney is far from slow. He is probably faster than some tight ends out there too.

He used to be. I'm sure he's not quite as fast as he used to be. But I really doubt we use him in man coverage at all. The Ravens used Suggs in man coverage on Andre Johnson once last year, with a blitz in front of it. The quarterback's throw was slightly off target, or else the play might have been a big one.

[StewieG]

He used to be. I'm sure he's not quite as fast as he used to be. But I really doubt we use him in man coverage at all. The Ravens used Suggs in man coverage on Andre Johnson once last year, with a blitz in front of it. The quarterback's throw was slightly off target, or else the play might have been a big one.

Well if Pagano puts Freeney against wide receivers often, we are probably going to be talking about firing Pagano in a few years. That would be a terrible decision.

[Thewholefnshow28]

*reminder*

Hughes doesn't play Freeney's position. We all know Hughes history playing with his hands down.

I am sure the plan would be to convert more traditional 3-4 when Hughes would take over for Freeney when we let him walk next offseason.

I do not really see a reason to cut him now. Yes, we will absorb a cap hit, but what benefit is there in cutting him now? We are not going to use that extra money unless you want to make a trade so we can absorb extending someone like MJD, but with us rebuilding we do not have much room to get rid of anymore picks.

You keep him so you can see what he can do when the real bullets are flying. If he is able to look good out there you can think about extending him and if he looks lost you write it off and let him walk in the offseason.

Also, people should not worry to much about Freeney in coverage. If are defensive coordinator and Chuck are putting him in that position then we have much larger problems. He will be put in the position on most cases to best use his skills.

[Superman]

Well if Pagano puts Freeney against wide receivers often, we are probably going to be talking about firing Pagano in a few years. That would be a terrible decision.

It would. In the play I mentioned, it was designed to shorten the coverage and force a hot throw, and that worked. The quarterback rushed his throw and was under pressure. It was actually a well-designed play, but the old adage is that good offense beats good defense. I think Pagano used Suggs in man coverage against Emmanuel Sanders of the Steelers also.

I highly doubt we'll see Freeney in man coverage against anyone, much less a receiver of Johnson's caliber.

[StewieG]

It would. In the play I mentioned, it was designed to shorten the coverage and force a hot throw, and that worked. The quarterback rushed his throw and was under pressure. It was actually a well-designed play, but the old adage is that good offense beats good defense. I think Pagano used Suggs in man coverage against Emmanuel Sanders of the Steelers also. http://forums.colts....suggs +coverage

I highly doubt we'll see Freeney in man coverage against anyone, much less a receiver of Johnson's caliber.

Also Suggs has a lot more experience than Freeney does covering anyone, let alone a wide receiver.

[JoKeR]

I am sure the plan would be to convert more traditional 3-4 when Hughes would take over for Freeney when we let him walk next offseason.

I do not really see a reason to cut him now. Yes, we will absorb a cap hit, but what benefit is there in cutting him now? We are not going to use that extra money unless you want to make a trade so we can absorb extending someone like MJD, but with us rebuilding we do not have much room to get rid of anymore picks.

You keep him so you can see what he can do when the real bullets are flying. If he is able to look good out there you can think about extending him and if he looks lost you write it off and let him walk in the offseason.

Also, people should not worry to much about Freeney in coverage. If are defensive coordinator and Chuck are putting him in that position then we have much larger problems. He will be put in the position on most cases to best use his skills.

Yeah in a traditional 3-4 you could put Hughes opposite of Mathis but I don't think Pagano is interested in traditional. I agree we shouldn't worry about Freeney being in coverage.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Yeah in a traditional 3-4 you could put Hughes opposite of Mathis but I don't think Pagano is interested in traditional. I agree we shouldn't worry about Freeney being in coverage.

To me it's about flexibility. In certain passing/nickle situations I'd like to see Freeney on the line at DE, with Hughes/Mathis at OLB just to attempt to apply even more pressure.

[Superman]

I think some of you are not taking into account 1 very important fact and it has nothing to do with the amount of years left on his contract, nothing to do with age, nothing to do with production or new defense BUT it has everything to do with Freeney has to AGREE to redo his contract and lets be realistic how many guys his age at the latter stages of his career say "Ok Mr. Grigson I will restructure my 14 million 1 year deal even though I know I wont be around much longer". So down to two options.....see if Freeney can turn it on this year and turn him loose to just be the pass rusher that he is (Which he has other respnsibilities other then pass rush, he has containment responsibilities which he struggles with). So he has to agree to restructure. Grigson just cant restructure on his own. As for do I think anything it will happen? No, Im sure he will be on the roster and be on the roster at 14 million if for no other reason then the simple fact that what Freeney COULD do (potentially) in the 3-4 as a OLB/DE intrigues Grigson. It intrigues me for that matter I just dont see this being a success

If you look at the contracts that have been given to top notch defensive players over the last two years, I'm pretty sure the parameters FJC and I were discussing would be agreeable to Freeney. He'd certainly prefer a new contract with a guaranteed signing bonus to being released a week before the season starts. In my opinion, at the negotiating table, the Colts have much more leverage than Freeney does. The only way he'd turn down a new deal is if they lowballed him, or if he doesn't want to be here anymore.

[StewieG]

So I guess today is the day Freeney gets cut ....not really.

[purdueindy]

Interesting Tweets!

John Clayton ‏@ClaytonESPN

Patriots making interesting moves with the releases of Deion Branch, Dan Koppen, Brian Hoyer. and James Ihedigo. Saves them $4.882 M of cap

Dan Graham ‏@coltsinsider

@ClaytonESPN Making room for Dwight Freeney?

[JoKeR]

Interesting Tweets!

John Clayton ‏@ClaytonESPN

Patriots making interesting moves with the releases of Deion Branch, Dan Koppen, Brian Hoyer. and James Ihedigo. Saves them $4.882 M of cap

Dan Graham ‏@coltsinsider

@ClaytonESPN Making room for Dwight Freeney?

A trade is a horse of a different color. Most just didn't see a trade as realistic because of his salary. Maybe the Pats would like to offer a extension to help ease the pain.

But I want someone who can contribute now and a draft pick, or multiple players, or multiple draft picks.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Interesting Tweets!

John Clayton ‏@ClaytonESPN

Patriots making interesting moves with the releases of Deion Branch, Dan Koppen, Brian Hoyer. and James Ihedigo. Saves them $4.882 M of cap

Dan Graham ‏@coltsinsider

@ClaytonESPN Making room for Dwight Freeney?

People that watch the 3am sportscenter are more of an insider than Dan Graham.

[FireJimCaldwell]

A trade is a horse of a different color. Most just didn't see a trade as realistic because of his salary. Maybe the Pats would like to offer a extension to help ease the pain.

But I want someone who can contribute now and a draft pick, or multiple players, or multiple draft picks.

He might be moved, but I don't see any form of windfall for his services.

[coltsfanatic24]

if we trade freeney we need a nt back in return or at least a 3rd round pick.

[IndyD4U]

if we trade freeney we need a nt back in return or at least a 3rd round pick.

You aren't going to get a third for an aging DE. You'd be lucky to get a forth

[FireJimCaldwell]

if we trade freeney we need a nt back in return or at least a 3rd round pick.

That's a great thought but most teams that would be interested in Freeney don't have Nose Tackles to start with.

[Balzer40]

if we trade freeney we need a nt back in return or at least a 3rd round pick.

Won't happen. His salary is ridiculous and the best we could get back is probably a 5th and thats pushing it IMO.

[Gavin]

Won't happen. His salary is ridiculous and the best we could get back is probably a 5th and thats pushing it IMO.

I'd do it for a 5th and sign another decent 3-4 linebacker

[Balzer40]

I'd do it for a 5th and sign another decent 3-4 linebacker

I'd do it too. I like Freeney, but if there was a slim chance we could upgrade at the guard or NT position by using the money we saved from trading him, I'd do it in a second.

[Hans Moleman]

Absolutely pointless to move Freeney for a 5th or any other low pick. We don't have to move him; we're certainly not going to unless we get a great offer for him.

[JoKeR]

He might be moved, but I don't see any form of windfall for his services.

Not a wind fall no. But a serviceable player + a 4th or 5th round, 2 serviceable players, or 2 draft picks.

Or how about a aging but still very good DE in Freeney for a good RT or guard might be worth it.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Not a wind fall no. But a serviceable player + a 4th or 5th round, 2 serviceable players, or 2 draft picks.

Or how about a aging but still very good DE in Freeney for a good RT or guard might be worth it.

Maybe... a straight up for another player, but I don't see multiple picks.

[JoKeR]

Maybe... a straight up for another player, but I don't see multiple picks.

Not even mid to late rounders or maybe 2 mids from 2 different drafts?

[FireJimCaldwell]

Not even mid to late rounders or maybe 2 mids from 2 different drafts?

That might make it more likely...

The new team would likely have to sign him to an extension. So there is 12-20 million they are going to spend on a signing bonus. So not many are going to want to throw in a lot of draft picks on top of it...

Especially if they think there is a change he's cut.

[chad72]

Pats drafted a Myron Pryor from Kentucky, an NT, in round 7 a couple of drafts ago, didn't they? Ask them to give him and a 5th for Freeney.

It is 3 p.m. and Freeney is still on the roster. When the clock strikes 4 p.m., if he is not released, he is not going anywhere. Funny that Pats got Chandler Jones for a pass rusher in round 1, who looks great in pre-season, also from Syracuse.

[Balzer40]

Pats drafted a Myron Pryor from Kentucky, an NT, in round 7 a couple of drafts ago, didn't they? Ask them to give him and a 5th for Freeney.

It is 3 p.m. and Freeney is still on the roster. When the clock strikes 4 p.m., if he is not released, he is not going anywhere. Funny that Pats got Chandler Jones for a pass rusher in round 1, who looks great in pre-season, also from Syracuse.

Pryor don't strike me as a NT. Seems much more of an UT in a 4-3 system. Pretty much Drake Nevis, but not as good.

[TKnight24]

I doubt we let Freeney go. And I believe he's staying IMO. Which is why I'm going to throw this ridiculous trade out there

IF we trade Freeney (Doubt It)

I want Donta' Hightower in Exchange for Freeney

[chad72]

Pryor don't strike me as a NT. Seems much more of an UT in a 4-3 system. Pretty much Drake Nevis, but not as good.

Oops. Sorry, the guy I was thinking of was Ron Brace, from Boston College, their 2nd round pick a few years ago. That is the NT guy.

[StewieG]

I'd do it too. I like Freeney, but if there was a slim chance we could upgrade at the guard or NT position by using the money we saved from trading him, I'd do it in a second.

100 % agree with you here.