Luck will have better season than Manning............

[Spencer88]

And GC your are spot on.. the 10-6 team was the "injury riddled" team I was referring to. And yes, simply a great job of "keeping a team together"....

Which is kinda what he did after the NO and NE boody spankings when I spouted out "the team has quit" ..

BOY was I wrong. The team played hard for Caldwell. And that says a lot.

No Manning and start C Painter will get a lot of NFL coaches the axe.

Edited August 17, 2012 by shecolt
personal shot

[TKnight24]

Additionally, on the subject of small sample sizes, the sample sizes of the handful of guys who play better outdoors tend to be even smaller. Most of the links I posted of players who play better indoors were of players with at least 10 indoor games. The ONLY player I've found with at least 10 indoor games who plays better outdoors is Vick, and like I said, there's an obvious explanation for that.

EDIT: OK, I found another one. Matt Schaub plays indoors at home but has a better QB rating outdoors.

Yeah, I really can't explain that one, but since your point is about outdoor QBs playing indoors, I'm not sure it's relevant.

Stafford, Ryan, McCoy and Young also better outdoors.

Sanchez. Newton, Moore and Alex Smith better indoors.

In any case, here's the list:

Better Indoors:

P. Manning

E. Manning

Roethlisberger

Brady

Brees

Rodgers

Romo

McNabb

Palmer

Favre

Hasselbeck

McNair

Leftwich

Batch

Campbell

Carr

Cutler

Flacco

Garrard

Stafford

Ryan

McCoy

Young

Better Outdoors:

Grossman

Leftwich

Vick

Schaub

Sanchez

Newton

Moore

A. Smith

So we have the Advantage come Week 1 @ Soldier Field since that's outdoors & Cutler's better Indoors lol

[John Dee]

really? lol thats hilarious...

I would LOVE to entertain YOU with a retort... but I am on probation ...

So make sure YOU get up early for school and make good grades...

God bless.

[John Dee]

caldwell

Can I play? mods???

[WoolMagnet]

Can I play? mods???

Don't waste your time John.

Some of these guys just like to hate on caldwell when he was actually just a clone of Dungy.

I'd like to hear what they'd say if someone talked like that about their brother, or father.

There's no reason to take personal shots at caldwell.

If we win that game against the Saints (SB), they's be kissing his buttocks!

This team was small, beat up, and predictable. The "do what we do" thing had run its course. caldwell's hands were tied by "King Polian".

Don't forget, we lost Tom Moore, Mudd, etc, and had a mediocre defensive coord. I was watching a pre-season game the other day, and THAT team had 7 ex-head coaches on the staff. 7! What did everyone expect?We had a staff that was put in place to do whatever Polian wanted. I'm not trying to bash Polian, but it was time for a change.

Heck, even with losing Manning, Addai, Dallas, Brackett, etc, etc, I still think we have MORE talent NOW. Even with the rookies!

[GoColts8818]

oook.....and the 2-16 seaon without manning? might be stating the obvious but it definetly was in a very large way mannings doing that we were in the SB, come on...

really? lol thats hilarious...

Well for starters it was 2-14 and if you want to mock someone else for giving me credit for what they thought was good post you might want to get something like that right.

I also covered that Manning was the key part what do you think the whole statement was about when I said they gambled on Manning and he went down? I in no way took away any credit from Peyton. I am just disputing the idea that Peyton Manning said hey get on my back and let me carry you all while Jim Caldwell and Bill Polian sat on the sidelines and twiddled their thumbs unless of course we lost and then some how they were able to silence Peyton's super power of carrying us to victory by himself and over come it with their super villain ability to make us lose!

No one is going to question that Peyton Manning was our best player however the idea that he's the only good thing to happen to the Colts in the past 15 years and he's had to over come sub par coaching, GMing, and thus sub par teammates during that whole time is laughable at best. No question Manning was the engine that made us go. That's why I keep saying us losing Manning was like taking an engine out of a car and saying hey the car wont start. However, he wasn't the only good player or thing this franchise has had during the past 15 years. The team feel apart last year because it was built around Peyton Manning and we lost him, I think that's giving pretty high praise to Peyton in terms of what he meant to this team. We aren't the only team built like that though. In fact most teams that have a super star QB were built like that. What do you think would happen in Green Bay if Rodgers went down? What about in New Orleans if Brees got hurt? What about the Chargers if Rivers went down? Look at what happened to Miami anytime Marino went down during his career. I know the Pats over came losing Brady that's called the exception to the rule and frankly the way the Pats have been built the past couple of years I don't think you would have seen the same result had Brady gone down again. The reason these super star QBs get paid millions of dollars is that you are counting on them to be able to cover up other holes your team might have. You don't just lose a guy like that and have everything be fine unless you have like a Steve Young sitting on the bench backing up Joe Montana.

I also think the fact I said that we would have been 10-6 last year with Peyton thus saying him alone was probably worth 8 wins is giving Manning pretty high praise. So yeah I don't think I under valued how much Peyton meant to this team. I am just saying in the ultimate team sport he alone was not the only good thing the Colts had like some people try to make it out to be like. If he had been would have been like the Saints when his dad played.

Again Caldwell and Polian clearly had their faults and those faults have been well documented and I agree that they did a horrible job handling things once Peyton did go down which is why I think irsay let hem go. With that said they get to share in some of the credit too as much as people try to exclude them for the things that went right during their time here. You'll notice when talking about the four game winning streak at the end of the 2010 season one of the first people Peyton gave credit to was Caldwell for making things simpler in practice those last four weeks. You can watch the games before that and it was clear as day Manning was pressing too hard which is why he was making mistakes and as much as people don't like hearing that it's true Manning is human and did make mistakes (saying that doesn't mean Manning isn't the greatest QB in the history of the league it means he was human). He calmed down the last four games and just went back to being Peyton and not trying to be Superman and things worked out just fine. If you don't think Caldwell played a role in that you either just hate Caldwell so much you refuse to give him any credit or you don't pay attention to Peyton Manning because he did give him credit.

Giving others credit isn't taking away from Peyton or saying that Peyton wasn't the main reason we won it's acknowledging that Peyton had help along the way which is exactly what you want and need to win in a team sport.

[GoColts8818]

Don't waste your time John.

Some of these guys just like to hate on caldwell when he was actually just a clone of Dungy.

I'd like to hear what they'd say if someone talked like that about their brother, or father.

There's no reason to take personal shots at caldwell.

If we win that game against the Saints (SB), they's be kissing his buttocks!

This team was small, beat up, and predictable. The "do what we do" thing had run its course. caldwell's hands were tied by "King Polian".

Don't forget, we lost Tom Moore, Mudd, etc, and had a mediocre defensive coord. I was watching a pre-season game the other day, and THAT team had 7 ex-head coaches on the staff. 7! What did everyone expect?We had a staff that was put in place to do whatever Polian wanted. I'm not trying to bash Polian, but it was time for a change.

Heck, even with losing Manning, Addai, Dallas, Brackett, etc, etc, I still think we have MORE talent NOW. Even with the rookies!

I don't disagree that they had run their course and it was time for a change. I like you just disagree with the idea that they had no clue what they were doing form day one and Peyton Manning was over coming them every week. I think Peyton Manning was the best QB to ever play the game. I think Bill Polian might very well be the best GM in the history of the NFL but I question if his heat was really in it towards the end like he was in his early days. (He talked a lot about retirement his last few years here and I kinda wonder if he ha done foot out the door) and I think Jim Caldwell was an average coach. When you add it all together more times than not it was good enough to win when you had the total package but when you lost the most important part to the package the super star QB it feel apart. However, had we lost Peyton in say 2005 the year we went 14-2 with Dungy and Polian I think you would have seen the samething. Yeah they might have won a game or two more but they would have still been one of the worst teams in the league without Peyton. He was just too good to be over come if you lost him. Polian elected to build around Peyton and you know what for most of the time he was here it worked great that's why I take issue with people who say Polian's way for building the team didn't work because it worked for 13 years at a record level for winning in the NFL. Yeah he had run his course by the end but there is no question what Polian did as a GM worked here. Had Polian elected to go in another way of building the team you would have just seen people complaining we weren't giving Peyton enough weapons to win with and we were wasting this great talent at QB any time we didn't win.

I mean I look at things like this when people complain about the Polian era. It could have been much worse. We could have been the Chargers that for years was thought to be the most talented team in the NFL hands down and never made it to a Super Bowl let alone win one and has one playoff win over a team not named the Colts during that time and three total and on top of that had to watch the QB you let leave take a less talented Saints team to a Super Bowl Title and see the other QB prove he was right for not wanting to play for your organization by taking far less talented Giants teams to two Super Bowl titles. Can you even begin to guess how hard people are going to be on Grigson if RGIII and Manning both win Super Bowls and the Colts don't? That's what Chargers fans have had to put up with. Even if people wanted more at least Polian built us a team that was able to win one and unless you are a Pats fan, Steelers fan, or Giants fan that's as many or more than any other fan base can say during the Polian era.

[Go Horse]

It might just come down to the broncos loving to run the ball and that will take some throws away from manning. When has a Joh n Fox team never run all day long.

[supremecoltsfan300]

caldwell was one of the worst nfl coaches i've seen. It's really amazing we almost won a sb with him as our head coach.....although we lost that sb in large part to him, as we could not cover for his mistakes anymore because we didnt play flawless football. He was a bad coach, plain and simple. I dont know how people stating the obvious about him is a personal attack on him. For his coaching career as a hc, Caldwell was bad. As far as I know, as a person he was a good guy. Terrell Owens for most of his playing career was a beast on the field. As a person during those years, TO was a bad person (im sure we could use another term, but the mods probably wouldnt like that so we wont )

Caldwell's performance as a hc did not cut it. He was similar to dungy in ways (I dont think dungy was always a great coach, he had moments though and I'll love him for when he had them), but imo overall as a coach he doesnt come close to being a dungy let alone a BB.

Back on topic: 2012 Manning > 2012 Luck

[chad72]

One think I might venture out to say safely is that Luck will have less INTs his rookie year than Peyton. A few reasons might be Arians will rein in the passing if he thinks it is not working as well, and Pagano has better defensive talent and coaching than Jim Mora Sr. had in 1998 to reduce the reliance on Luck's arm, IMO.

Besides, a rookie record of 28 INTs that no one else has touched in a season is probably something you can safely bet on to stay.

Plus, rules in the league are different enough that Luck could be in the 3000-3500 yard range with good support from the run game and still have less than 20 INTs for the season.

The above is for rookie year comparisons.

If we are talking just 2012 season, outside our division games, we play the NFC North and AFC East, with 5 potential playoff teams in there. KC at Kansas City is no easy matter. Next year, we play the NFC West and AFC West, where we will have more chances for wins outside the division, IMO.

Yes, the Broncos have a tough schedule but then, Peyton has seen plenty of this kind of schedule before time and time again and managed to win 12 games for 7 years in a row.

If Peyton plays like Peyton of a few years ago, Broncos 2012 > Colts 2012.

[Fx Stryker]

Back on topic: 2012 Manning > 2012 Luck

Heresy.

[Balzer40]

lol. Manning always throws wobbly balls. Accurate Wobbly balls are his trademark. In his prime that's what most of his td passes were. Again, the wobble has to do with touch. I honestly dont know how he does it, but he is able to make it so that wobbly ball is where it should and needs to be.

Apparently, Im not making my point the way I want too. yes, he has always thrown wobbly passes, but those wobbly passes had zip on them. A few of the one's he threw in his 1st game were wobbly and floating. Didn't have zip on them at all. I understand that some just don't want to see faults in Manning, but it is obvious to me that Manning is not Manning, just yet.

[Superman]

We've broached this topic before. I can't remember if we discussed common opponents in the same conversation or not. But like you, my alarms went off a year or so ago and had to dig through the game logs and see what Manning had done on the road in a dome. I figured his #'s would be better than his overall indoor #'s because it's a smaller sample size, and the teams with domes(Rams, Falcons, Saints, Cardinals, Texans, Lions, Vikings) I might have left someone out, but oh well, those teams for the most of Manning's tenure had weakish defenses. When Brady adds the Colts to his list of dome opponents that doesn't exactly alter that position.

There is no doubt the field conditions have something to do with it. I think we both rather watch our teams in poor weather at Cleveland than in a dome vs. Baltimore. Obviously it's impossible for New England & Baltimore to square off in a dome, but you can get the point of the comment. Of course, either would love to feast on the Rams in their dome, but that's another story all together.

The opponents matter, and so do the conditions. Most if not all QB's have better #'s in a dry weather game than they do precipitation or snow but I do remember Cassel tearing Arizona up in the snow and Warner looking like he was 62. If that game is in Arizona, Warner would have had a better game, and who's to say it has the same outcome.

I take the majority of the comments with a grain of salt, and I'll just leave it at that.

I'm chiming in here late.

I don't think any of the indoor/outdoor stats and breakdowns are conclusive. First of all, what percentage of those outdoor games were played in any kind of notable weather? Was it windy? Was it wet? Our opener at Chicago might be played in perfect weather. Does the fact that it's "outdoors" really have an impact on the quarterbacks? These breakdowns treat that game the same as they'll treat our Week 16 game at KC, where it might be wet and windy. It's NOT the same. A September game in Arizona is a lot different than a December game in Buffalo.

Another thing, which FJC mentions in this post, is that I'd rather play at Jacksonville in Week 10 than host the Packers in Week 5. One is a dome game at home, the other is an outdoor game on the road.

In other words, all this indoor/outdoor stuff is incomplete, at best.

[Superman]

Apparently, Im not making my point the way I want too. yes, he has always thrown wobbly passes, but those wobbly passes had zip on them. A few of the one's he threw in his 1st game were wobbly and floating. Didn't have zip on them at all. I understand that some just don't want to see faults in Manning, but it is obvious to me that Manning is not Manning, just yet.

He threw a nice deep out to Decker (?) in the game against the Bears. Threw another strike to Decker on 3rd and long. Neither of those were wobbly. I think the point that's being made is that Manning's arm can handle NFL throws, and he showed it. Maybe a few balls will be wobbly, maybe he doesn't have the arm strength he used to. I don't know that any of that matters. Anticipation and a quick release make up for some of that.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I'm chiming in here late.

I don't think any of the indoor/outdoor stats and breakdowns are conclusive. First of all, what percentage of those outdoor games were played in any kind of notable weather? Was it windy? Was it wet? Our opener at Chicago might be played in perfect weather. Does the fact that it's "outdoors" really have an impact on the quarterbacks? These breakdowns treat that game the same as they'll treat our Week 16 game at KC, where it might be wet and windy. It's NOT the same. A September game in Arizona is a lot different than a December game in Buffalo.

Another thing, which FJC mentions in this post, is that I'd rather play at Jacksonville in Week 10 than host the Packers in Week 5. One is a dome game at home, the other is an outdoor game on the road.

In other words, all this indoor/outdoor stuff is incomplete, at best.

They do offer splits that break it down even further. Day/Night, Home/Away, Outdoors/Indoors, Precip, windy, frigid(<21), cold(21-40), Mild (41-60), Warm (61-80), Hot >80, by month, day, division, etc.

Obviously the accumulation of those variables go into each game.

Playing Baltimore, in a cold rain with wind, outdoors, in December on a Monday night.

Is far different from

Playing Baltimore on a Warm Sunday afternoon, out doors in October.

Same teams, different environments. Same results? Sometimes...

[Restored]

This is so ambiguous. Seems like another thread just to divide the fan-base.

I don't see how really. I mean at this point if people still are loyal to Manning and can't stand the comparison between the two then they should purchase a Broncos Manning jersey and watch him soley. I personally love the comparisons because I'm a firm believer in history repeating itself. Tom Brady came along and is viewed as this generation's Joe Montana in a lot of eyes. Peyton Manning came along and was this generation's Dan Marino in a lot of ways. Luck could prove to be this generation's Peyton Manning.

[Superman]

They do offer splits that break it down even further. Day/Night, Home/Away, Outdoors/Indoors, Precip, windy, frigid(<21), cold(21-40), Mild (41-60), Warm (61-80), Hot >80, by month, day, division, etc.

Obviously the accumulation of those variables go into each game.

Playing Baltimore, in a cold rain with wind, outdoors, in December on a Monday night.

Is far different from

Playing Baltimore on a Warm Sunday afternoon, out doors in October.

Same teams, different environments. Same results? Sometimes...

For the Colts, they certainly were. Has Manning EVER lost to Baltimore?

Just looked it up, he was 6-2. I don't remember the two losses off the top of my head. But he was 65%, 17 touchdowns, 5 interceptions, 2273 yards. The first loss was as a rookie, at Baltimore in November, and he was 27/42 with 3 touchdowns and one interception, 357 yards, 105.0 rating. According to prf.com, it was 53 degrees, with 50% humidity and 5 MPH winds.

Second loss was in 2001 (we went 6-10, I've blocked most of those games out of my memory), at Baltimore in December, Manning was 27/48, 2 touchdowns, one interception, 310 yards, 81.1 rating. It was 50 degrees, 62% humidity, 7 MPH winds.

[chad72]

There was some other stat about Peyton in games higher than 50 F being stellar outdoors. There was also a stat about the Broncos home games where it got below 50 F during game time just once or twice the last 4 or 5 years.

It could be because the Broncos have played at home mostly in the 4:15 p.m. ET time slot which they will continue doing and their primetime games other than the season SNF opener vs Pitt have the Broncos mostly on the road in primetime (At Falcons, At Chargers, At Foxboro) and the time of the year makes it above 60F for all those 4. They do have a thursday night game at home vs Raiders but that is early in the season too.

Can't remember the exact articles but I am sure someone will find it and post it here.

[Superman]

There was some other stat about Peyton in games higher than 50 F being stellar outdoors. There was also a stat about the Broncos home games where it got below 50 F during game time just once or twice the last 4 or 5 years.

It could be because the Broncos have played at home mostly in the 4:15 p.m. ET time slot which they will continue doing and their primetime games other than the season SNF opener vs Pitt have the Broncos mostly on the road in primetime (At Falcons, At Chargers, At Foxboro) and the time of the year makes it above 60F for all those 4. They do have a thursday night game at home vs Raiders but that is early in the season too.

Can't remember the exact articles but I am sure someone will find it and post it here.

I remember what you're talking about as well. People assume that teams with outdoor stadiums are always playing in weather, and that's just not true. Even the Pats and Bills only get bad weather games two or three times a year.

[Balzer40]

He threw a nice deep out to Decker (?) in the game against the Bears. Threw another strike to Decker on 3rd and long. Neither of those were wobbly. I think the point that's being made is that Manning's arm can handle NFL throws, and he showed it. Maybe a few balls will be wobbly, maybe he doesn't have the arm strength he used to. I don't know that any of that matters. Anticipation and a quick release make up for some of that.

I agree completely, but my only point is I just don't think he is himself just yet. Not a knock on him at all, just trying to objective about it instead of trying to make it sound like he is still Manning circa 2005. I think its just going to take more time for him to get back his normal arm strength. I've never been one to think Manning had a rocket for an arm to begin with, but I do see an obvious difference in his arm so far this preseason.

[indynorth]

Peyton's arm strength has decreased. If you watched that Broncos vs Bears game.... a few of those passes were "Slow". Even the commentators pointed out that the "Zip" Peyton usually puts on a ball wasn't there. Maybe it was because it was his 1st game after so long, maybe it wasn't

But as far as Luck doing better than Peyton, I don't see that happening. I've been wrong before though

Manning did not look as sharp at the Bears game,the ball seemed to be coming out slower,but what can you tell by preseason really.

[gbrads_rants]

It's not impossible. The AFC is not going to be as tough in to shine. Manning/Brady are starting to look old to me at times too.....

Quote of the day....its the truth, their sunset is fast approaching...Tom Brady is looking older in these preseason games...between him and a suspect OL I dont see the Patriots Offense doing much this year...Manning is expected to go the Super Bowl but the harsh truth is the best team in the AFC is the Houston Texans they have youth and a better defense on their side, also the AFC West is really up for grabs...excluding the Raiders the Chiefs and Chargers are no slouches at all...

[Superman]

I agree completely, but my only point is I just don't think he is himself just yet. Not a knock on him at all, just trying to objective about it instead of trying to make it sound like he is still Manning circa 2005. I think its just take more time for him to get back his normal arm strength. I've never been one to think Manning had a rocket for an arm to begin with, but I do see an obvious difference in his arm so far this preseason.

I don't think his arm was what made him special. He threw for 4700 yards in 2010 without being very effective on deep passes. He doesn't have to be his 2005 self, and it's unrealistic to expect that of him. He's not going back to being 29 years old.

[FireJimCaldwell]

There was some other stat about Peyton in games higher than 50 F being stellar outdoors. There was also a stat about the Broncos home games where it got below 50 F during game time just once or twice the last 4 or 5 years.

It could be because the Broncos have played at home mostly in the 4:15 p.m. ET time slot which they will continue doing and their primetime games other than the season SNF opener vs Pitt have the Broncos mostly on the road in primetime (At Falcons, At Chargers, At Foxboro) and the time of the year makes it above 60F for all those 4. They do have a thursday night game at home vs Raiders but that is early in the season too.

Can't remember the exact articles but I am sure someone will find it and post it here.

I crunched the #'s on Denver home games when he was in his decision making process, and it was much warmer than I anticipated. I'll have to see if I still have that data, but the true cold games were few and far between.

For the Colts, they certainly were. Has Manning EVER lost to Baltimore?

Just looked it up, he was 6-2. I don't remember the two losses off the top of my head. But he was 65%, 17 touchdowns, 5 interceptions, 2273 yards. The first loss was as a rookie, at Baltimore in November, and he was 27/42 with 3 touchdowns and one interception, 357 yards, 105.0 rating. According to prf.com, it was 53 degrees, with 50% humidity and 5 MPH winds.

Second loss was in 2001 (we went 6-10, I've blocked most of those games out of my memory), at Baltimore in December, Manning was 27/48, 2 touchdowns, one interception, 310 yards, 81.1 rating. It was 50 degrees, 62% humidity, 7 MPH winds.

I stepped out and came back and you already had it.

[oldunclemark]

Did anyone else see this on NFL AM on nfl network this morning?

They mainly talked about "arm strength" being the reason.

Many just don't think Manning will last the season I guess.

Also, "better" is a relative term.

Luck only needs to have a "good" season, while Manning is expected to lead the broncos to the Super bowl.

I think It is hilarious to compare them at this point, but I guess its been a slow news day.

You hit the right point, WOOLY MAN

What is 'better'???

Denver's going to run the ball more and Denver plays some bad weather games....

Indy may be behind a lot and they play indoors 1/2 the time, perfect for passing...

..and I would say the Colts have slighlty better faster receivers than Denver

Denver should win 10 and make the playoffs....but I agree that Luck may pass for more yards....

what's better?

[FireJimCaldwell]

I don't see how really. I mean at this point if people still are loyal to Manning and can't stand the comparison between the two then they should purchase a Broncos Manning jersey and watch him soley. I personally love the comparisons because I'm a firm believer in history repeating itself. Tom Brady came along and is viewed as this generation's Joe Montana in a lot of eyes. Peyton Manning came along and was this generation's Dan Marino in a lot of ways. Luck could prove to be this generation's Peyton Manning.

I don't see how you can accurately compare 7,210 passes to 0. Maybe that's just me...

[Superman]

I don't see how you can accurately compare 7,210 passes to 0. Maybe that's just me...

That's not the comparison. We're talking about these two moving forward.

Honestly, sometimes people act like we got rid of Manning just because Luck was coming out of college, as if he didn't just have four neck surgeries and there's no question that he can play at a high level again. There was no $28 million option bonus, or else the option bonus could have just been waved away magically (by the way, FJC, it was you who convinced me that the option bonus could NOT be renegotiated).

Sorry for the rant. I just don't get why we can't keep a fair perspective of the situation.

[FireJimCaldwell]

That's not the comparison. We're talking about these two moving forward.

Honestly, sometimes people act like we got rid of Manning just because Luck was coming out of college, as if he didn't just have four neck surgeries and there's no question that he can play at a high level again. There was no $28 million option bonus, or else the option bonus could have just been waved away magically (by the way, FJC, it was you who convinced me that the option bonus could NOT be renegotiated).

Sorry for the rant. I just don't get why we can't keep a fair perspective of the situation.

A fair perspective here would be nice. I guess one would have to define fair.

[Superman]

A fair perspective here would be nice. I guess one would have to define fair.

It's a little easier to define and identify "unfair."

[FireJimCaldwell]

It's a little easier to define and identify "unfair."

Considering they are antonyms of each other each should be able to be defined and identified on the same level.

[ThatOneColtFan]

Luck will play better the beginning of the season, and once we're mid-season and Peyton starts to get comfortable he'll skyrocket.

Outperforming Luck in the process.

[Superman]

Considering they are antonyms of each other each should be able to be defined and identified on the same level.

If only it were that simple.

And here we are again. My point was just that, per the topic in this thread, Manning's 7,000 attempts aren't really at question. We know what he was. We're not sure what he will be. I have all the faith in the world in him, and can't wait to see him play again. But the question at hand is relevant, considering the circumstances.

[FireJimCaldwell]

If only it were that simple.

And here we are again. My point was just that, per the topic in this thread, Manning's 7,000 attempts aren't really at question. We know what he was. We're not sure what he will be. I have all the faith in the world in him, and can't wait to see him play again. But the question at hand is relevant, considering the circumstances.

Which brings me back to my original statement in this thread.. The answers are far too ambiguous and the end result is the end result. I guess we will see come January at how many different interpretations there will be.

[Superman]

Which brings me back to my original statement in this thread.. The answers are far too ambiguous and the end result is the end result. I guess we will see come January at how many different interpretations there will be.

That's fair.

[bayone]

I've actually been saying this for about 2 weeks now. I really do believe Luck has a good shot at having a better year than Manning. Luck just seems to get it and looks like a veteran out there. Plus he has better arm strength than Manning at this point and is the much better athlete.

I don't see how you can accurately compare 7,210 passes to 0. Maybe that's just me...

Much depends QB to Receiver Chemistry & on Schedule

Denver has an incredibly hard schedule out of the gate & for the season is second hardest only to Eli, The Brothers will have to play tuff

http://www.denverbro...s/schedule.html

# of offensive drives will have an affect, ,

injuries always effects teams

so lots of variables

May take Peyton awhile to develop receiver chemistry, I get many an article from family in Denver Re their training and save for Decker , Peyton so far really hasnt developed chemistry with his new receivers , not all his fault, Route running appears to be an issue with , esp with DT but others as well, especially and unfortunately for Peyton & Denver in endzone situations

Remember as a Colt coming off the 2 knee surgeries he needed a good 6 games to find himself, this is really a long time to be out of the game with such an injury & basically having to retrain even his mechanics to varying degrees from much i have read

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All I know is it will be an interesting season for Both,

I am hoping Colts new staff gel well together & properly call in game situations as should appropriately be called and Luck does great

& yes of course I want Peyton to do great as well

Who will have a better season, Have to say until I saw this thread maybe I am naive but never even thought about it

Its a team game & right now routing for both to be stellar and cant really make a sound opinion at this point in time, So Time Will Tell

[Creekside]

.............. Manning/Brady are starting to look old to me at times too.....

.....you mean their butts?