Manti Teo = Future defensive leader for Colts

[manning2dallas]

Copenhagen.... you wrote...

"Someone call Ray Lewis and Patrick Willis and let them know that they're not that important anymore...."

That's not what I said...

First, Ray Lewis wasn't even drafted in this Century. The game has changed quite a bit.

Second, both guys are exceptions to the rule... they can play 3 downs. They don't have to come off the field on obvious 3rd down and passing situations. That's not the case with many (most?) ILB's... they come off for the extra corner or safety.

That's why so few ILB's are drafted high in the past few years. Most are considered "two down" players... 1st and 2nd down, yes.... 3rd down, off the field they come.

By the way, as good as Teo is... he's got work to do to stay on the field in the NFL on 3rd down. Covering a back out of the backfield, or a TE or a WR coming over the middle is not his strength. He needs to improve.

I love the guy too.... but only up to a point. I'd prefer to take an ILB in a lower round than the first, and use the premium rounds on premium positions.... and on defense, that's pass rusher and corner...

Hey, I didn't make the rules... that's the new modern day NFL....

so u agree Teo will be better than Patric Willis? Willis is great dont get me wrong but I believe Willis-level is the floor for Teo. Teo is something else and will be the best at his position. once again I am a ND fan but that is not biased all u have to do is watch the tape to know Teo > Willis

[Andy]

so u agree Teo will be better than Patric Willis? Willis is great dont get me wrong but I believe Willis-level is the floor for Teo. Teo is something else and will be the best at his position. once again I am a ND fan but that is not biased all u have to do is watch the tape to know Teo > Willis

Just saying right now, I can get in argument and discuss this all day, but Teo will not be better than Willis coming out of college and he will be no where close to Willis in the big leagues.

BTW, Patrick Willis is the best linebacker in the league, so you're trying to tell us that Teo will be the best linebacker in the league and one of the best in the last 20 years.

Sorry, I don't see that happening, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who thinks that.

My projection for Teo is that because of his athleticism, he has a high ceiling. I think you could be looking at Curtis Lofton/Kirk Morrison in his prime. His basement is mediocre starter. Personally, I see him being a Stephen Tulloch/Takeo Spikes kind of linebacker.

[coltsguy510]

Willis is ultra athletic, has great instincts, and is just the best LB in the game. Te'o can be good, but not that good. He is definitely not as athletic as Willis, Willis had a 39 inch vert and had a 4.5 40 time.

[coltsguy510]

Willis ran a 4.37 at his Pro Day!!

[Gavin]

I like Te'o but I would probably give Grigson a good cussing if he drafted Te'o in the 1st, probably to the degree that I gave a cussing to the 49ers for passing on Fleener in this past draft

[coltsguy510]

What if we had a pick in the 20's?

[Gavin]

Depends on whos there, name some players for example

[manning2dallas]

Willis ran a 4.37 at his Pro Day!!

Not bad but Teo could be a sub 4.3 guy

[manning2dallas]

I like Te'o but I would probably give Grigson a good cussing if he drafted Te'o in the 1st, probably to the degree that I gave a cussing to the 49ers for passing on Fleener in this past draft

niners have two very good TEs. plus their pick, aj jenkins, was obviously thought of as a superior talent by nfl teams. i am beyond excited to have the fleener to luck connection but people also admonished SF for "reaching" on aldon smith last year instead of selecting blaine gabbert or robert quinn. his picks may be unpopular with the media, but it sure seems to me as if Jim Harbaugh knows what he is doing on draft day

[manning2dallas]

Just saying right now, I can get in argument and discuss this all day, but Teo will not be better than Willis coming out of college and he will be no where close to Willis in the big leagues.

BTW, Patrick Willis is the best linebacker in the league, so you're trying to tell us that Teo will be the best linebacker in the league and one of the best in the last 20 years.

Sorry, I don't see that happening, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who thinks that.

My projection for Teo is that because of his athleticism, he has a high ceiling. I think you could be looking at Curtis Lofton/Kirk Morrison in his prime. His basement is mediocre starter. Personally, I see him being a Stephen Tulloch/Takeo Spikes kind of linebacker.

nice post but fyi Angerer had more tackles than Willis last year

[Gavin]

niners have two very good TEs. plus their pick, aj jenkins, was obviously thought of as a superior talent by nfl teams. i am beyond excited to have the fleener to luck connection but people also admonished SF for "reaching" on aldon smith last year instead of selecting blaine gabbert or robert quinn. his picks may be unpopular with the media, but it sure seems to me as if Jim Harbaugh knows what he is doing on draft day

http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2011/10/5/2471605/a-look-at-manti-teo-ilb-from-notre-dame from this article Teo runs a 4.59. The reason why getting Teo isn't high on my list is because we dont know if Angerers production will take a hit because of the scheme.If it dont then there is no reason to draft Teo, great talent and has alot of potential though

[coltsguy510]

Te'o can't be a sub 4.4 guy. Just because someone has talent doesn't mean they have the athletic ability of the most athletic MLB in the game.

[NewColtsFan]

so u agree Teo will be better than Patric Willis? Willis is great dont get me wrong but I believe Willis-level is the floor for Teo. Teo is something else and will be the best at his position. once again I am a ND fan but that is not biased all u have to do is watch the tape to know Teo > Willis

Where did I agree that Teo will be better than Willis? I didn't say that, not implied that. I don't know if he will. My only point is that the position has been devalued by the NFL. Willis does not have to come off the field because of coverage issues. Teo will have to improve his coverage skills or risk being taken off on passing downs. That will lower his value to a team.

But, he's not a finished product yet. I'm glad he stayed in school another year. What he'll be by next spring I do not know. I look forward to seeing him this year and finding out.

Hope that clarifies...

[Andy]

nice post but fyi Angerer had more tackles than Willis last year

So? Teams ran the ball much more against the Colts than they did against the Niners. Patrick Willis was one of the candidates for the DPOY last year. Angerer was not.

[manning2dallas]

So? Teams ran the ball much more against the Colts than they did against the Niners. Patrick Willis was one of the candidates for the DPOY last year. Angerer was not.

maybe so but we all know that's just a popularity contest

[NewColtsFan]

Not bad but Teo could be a sub 4.3 guy

I've been trying to stay out of this thread as much as i can.... but the chances of Manti Teo being a sub-4.3 guy are exactly zero.

I wouldn't even say slim.... I'd say zero. He's just not that fast.

You know how many wide receivers in this past draft ran sub 4.3? None.

You know how many running backs in this past draft ran sub 4.3? None.

You know how many corner backs in this past draft ran sub 4.3? Yup, None.

I don't have to wait for next year's combine to know Manti is not that fast. He's not. And I'm not down-grading him by any stretch. Great player. Talented kid. Would love to have him be a Colt. But there are other players I want much, much more.

[Andy]

maybe so but we all know that's just a popularity contest

No it's not

Please, I hope you honestly don't think that Pat Angerer is better than Patrick WIllis.

[CopenhagenColt]

That's not what I said...

First, Ray Lewis wasn't even drafted in this Century. The game has changed quite a bit.

Second, both guys are exceptions to the rule...

Doesn't matter when Lewis was drafted.

What's exceptional about the two, is that they're true elite players. Not "run of the mill" NFL players, but among the very best defensive players. I think Teo has the potential to become a real elite defensive NFL player as well.

What really matters is that they produce on the field at the position we're talking about.

I'd prefer to take an ILB in a lower round than the first, and use the premium rounds on premium positions.... and on defense, that's pass rusher and corner...

Hey, I didn't make the rules... that's the new modern day NFL....

Well, I don't agree. I think he would vastly improve our defense and I'm all about going for BPA, The depth in quality at WR/CB is much better than at ILB at the draft, so there's much more sense in drafting those in later rounds than the ILB position.

I would have Teo start for us and have Conner/Angerer battle it out for the other position.

[Gavin]

Doesn't matter when Lewis was drafted.

What's exceptional about the two, is that they're true elite players. Not "run of the mill" NFL players, but among the very best defensive players. I think Teo has the potential to become a real elite defensive NFL player as well.

What really matters is that they produce on the field at the position we're talking about.

Well, I don't agree. I think he would vastly improve our defense and I'm all about going for BPA, The depth in quality at WR/CB is much better than at ILB at the draft, so there's much more sense in drafting those in later rounds than the ILB position.

I would have Teo start for us and have Conner/Angerer battle it out for the other position.

And what if Angerer has another year very similar to what he had last year?

[CopenhagenColt]

And what if Angerer has another year very similar to what he had last year?

Then he'll partner up with Teo and we'll have a solid defensive unit

[Gavin]

Then he'll partner up with Teo and we'll have a solid defensive unit

And what about Conner?

[NewColtsFan]

Doesn't matter when Lewis was drafted.

What's exceptional about the two, is that they're true elite players. Not "run of the mill" NFL players, but among the very best defensive players. I think Teo has the potential to become a real elite defensive NFL player as well.

What really matters is that they produce on the field at the position we're talking about.

Well, I don't agree. I think he would vastly improve our defense and I'm all about going for BPA, The depth in quality at WR/CB is much better than at ILB at the draft, so there's much more sense in drafting those in later rounds than the ILB position.

I would have Teo start for us and have Conner/Angerer battle it out for the other position.

Of course it matters.....

Context is everything. Back when Lewis was drafted, teams ran the ball more. You needed the inside/middle linebacker more. Now, with all the passing, you need to pressure the QB more. You get less pressure from an ILB than you do an OLB or a DE.

As for improving the defense... of course Manti would improve the defense. Not saying he wouldn't. But other players might improve the defense more. And that's the difference.

Look... if Grigson loves the guy, and wants to trade back and collect more picks and take Teo a little bit lower in the first round, then I'm OK with that. But the modern NFL says inside linebackers are less important -- they've devalued the position -- and made other positions more important.

It is what it is....

[CopenhagenColt]

And what about Conner?

He wouldn't be in the starting lineup if Angerer was

[CopenhagenColt]

Of course it matters.....

Context is everything. Back when Lewis was drafted, teams ran the ball more. You needed the inside/middle linebacker more. Now, with all the passing, you need to pressure the QB more. You get less pressure from an ILB than you do an OLB or a DE.

And yet Willis/Lewis still produce, and are still rated among the best football players on the defensive side of the ball in the NFL.

As for improving the defense... of course Manti would improve the defense. Not saying he wouldn't. But other players might improve the defense more. And that's the difference.

Look... if Grigson loves the guy, and wants to trade back and collect more picks and take Teo a little bit lower in the first round, then I'm OK with that. But the modern NFL says inside linebackers are less important -- they've devalued the position -- and made other positions more important.

It is what it is....

It is what it is - That's true.. It's a difference of opinion between us.

I would still love having a truly elite ILB like Teo, and I think he would be better value than the best available CB/OLB if we pick around where Teo is expected to go.

[Gavin]

He wouldn't be in the starting lineup if Angerer was

Whats Conner done to deserve being yanked out so far? If Amerson and Rhodes are both gone then I wouldnt be mad over the Teo pick but I still think there are better options based on needs that will be available

[NewColtsFan]

It is what it is - That's true.. It's a difference of opinion between us.

I would still love having a truly elite ILB like Teo, and I think he would be better value than the best available CB/OLB if we pick around where Teo is expected to go.

Don't take my word for it.... I'm OK with that.... but look what the NFL says...

In this most recent draft, 2012....

DE taken... 19

OLB taken... 28

ILB taken.......... 8

We're talking the entire NFL draft... 8 inside linebackers. That's it. Half in the first 4 rounds. The other half in the last 3 rounds.

What does that tell you?

I hope it's clear, I like Manti Teo. I'm not a hater. But the NFL game has changed. His position is less important unless he can stay on the field for all 3-downs. And, he's got work to do to make sure that he can. Pass coverage is not a strength of his -- at least, not yet. It maybe by next April... but he's got to show it his senior year.

[CopenhagenColt]

Whats Conner done to deserve being yanked out so far? If Amerson and Rhodes are both gone then I wouldnt be mad over the Teo pick but I still think there are better options based on needs that will be available

It's not about what anyone has deserved.. If a better player comes along, he starts and the player that used to start doesn't anymore, and I think Teo is the better player.

[Gavin]

It's not about what anyone has deserved.. If a better player comes along, he starts and the player that used to start doesn't anymore, and I think Teo is the better player.

your probably right but Teo would have to learn the 3-4 just like Conner does so from that stand point they would be on equal footing

[CopenhagenColt]

Don't take my word for it.... I'm OK with that.... but look what the NFL says...

In this most recent draft, 2012....

DE taken... 19

OLB taken... 28

ILB taken.......... 8

We're talking the entire NFL draft... 8 inside linebackers. That's it. Half in the first 4 rounds. The other half in the last 3 rounds.

What does that tell you?

I hope it's clear, I like Manti Teo. I'm not a hater. But the NFL game has changed. His position is less important unless he can stay on the field for all 3-downs. And, he's got work to do to make sure that he can. Pass coverage is not a strength of his -- at least, not yet. It maybe by next April... but he's got to show it his senior year.

A wise man once said that statistics is similar to miniskirts.. It shows you something, but not the important parts.

Doesn't matter how many was drafted at what position. You still need great ILBs, just like you need great OLBs, CBs, WRs, QBs etc. Teo is pro-ready, and has the potential to be one of the very best at ILB in the league in a few years. If, and it's a big if, we draft around where he's expected to be drafted, he might very well be the BPA. Amerson will be gone, Woods will be gone and so will several others that would be great picks. The draft looks deep in the CB department next year, so why not grab a CB in the second, if Teo is BPA in the first when we get to pick? Heck, we might not even "need" a CB or an OLB by then...

If we pick at 1, 2 or 3 there will most likely be better options available, but if we pick around where Teo is expected to go it's a different story

[NewColtsFan]

A wise man once said that statistics is similar to miniskirts.. It shows you something, but not the important parts.

Doesn't matter how many was drafted at what position. You still need great ILBs, just like you need great OLBs, CBs, WRs, QBs etc. Teo is pro-ready, and has the potential to be one of the very best at ILB in the league in a few years. If, and it's a big if, we draft around where he's expected to be drafted, he might very well be the BPA. Amerson will be gone, Woods will be gone and so will several others that would be great picks. The draft looks deep in the CB department next year, so why not grab a CB in the second, if Teo is BPA in the first when we get to pick? Heck, we might not even "need" a CB or an OLB by then...

If we pick at 1, 2 or 3 there will most likely be better options available, but if we pick around where Teo is expected to go it's a different story

You may be entirely right....

Grigson may decide that drating Patrick Willis 11th overall has only been a good thing for the 49ers, and since we've been public about being good running the ball and good stopping the run, maybe that's what we do. I wouldn't ruled it out.

But I'd be somewhat surprised....

Fair enough?

[CopenhagenColt]

You may be entirely right....

Grigson may decide that drating Patrick Willis 11th overall has only been a good thing for the 49ers, and since we've been public about being good running the ball and good stopping the run, maybe that's what we do. I wouldn't ruled it out.

But I'd be somewhat surprised....

Fair enough?

Absolutely ;)

[manning2dallas]

No it's not

Please, I hope you honestly don't think that Pat Angerer is better than Patrick WIllis.

no i don't.......yet

[Jason_]

your probably right but Teo would have to learn the 3-4 just like Conner does so from that stand point they would be on equal footing

Teo currently plays in a primarily 3-4 defense at Notre Dame, so no, he wouldn't have to learn the 3-4 like Conner. I'll also add that the majority of the front 7 for Notre Dame, aside from Teo, is rather undersized which I think contributes to what some people are seeing as Teo getting lost in traffic at times. Though I watched just about every Notre Dame game last year and didn't see much of this. Teo has excellent instincts, very good speed and can cover, imo better than either Connor and probably better even than Angerer. I do think that in the NFL, Teo will be an every down ILB and I would love to get him.

I agree that LB to some degree has been devalued somewhat, but at the same time I think that a stud MLB is crucial to making your defense work and that's one thing we haven't had in...ever. lol I'm very interested to see how Angerer and Conner do in the new defense but I'm not sold on either being that stud MLB that I think we'll need.

[coltsfanatic24]

we will not draft a ilb no matter what pick we have angerer and conner are good. amerson and woods most likely will be off board so i think will go ss eric reid or nt star loutelei.

[CopenhagenColt]

we will not draft a ilb no matter what pick we have angerer and conner are good. amerson and woods most likely will be off board so i think will go ss eric reid or nt star loutelei.

1 - We don't know when we'll pick.

We could pick first, we could @ number 20 and anything in between. At this point, it's way to early to call and it's pure speculation to try to predict anything before a single down has been played of the season. Maybe we will win 7 games, maybe we'll win two or three or maybe we'll witness "a perfect storm" and we'll reach the playoffs.. But at this point it's just guessing.

2 - You might think Angerer/Conner is "good", but speculating about how Grigson et al feels about them, compared to Te'o, is just that - Speculation. Some might argue that picking Patrick Willis @ 11th was a good move for the 49ers. Maybe even the best pick they could have made. Who's to say that, say, picking Te'o @ 11th wouldn't be the best move we can make when/if that time comes? So categorically dismissing that we'll pick a ILB/MLB seems a little premature.

If we pick first, there's no way we'll pick Te'o, but if we pick around 10-15th it's a completely different matter. Amerson, Woods, Rhodes, Allen, Jarvis Jones, Olutelei might very well be gone by then and that opens up a whole new perspective

[jimirsaysdog]

Not bad but Teo could be a sub 4.3 guy

i'm as big an nd fan as anyone but teo is not in the same class as willis. sub 4.3 ? dreamland ! if manti runs 4.5 he'll be doing great. he's solid but he's never been as fundamentally sound as a mike stonebreaker or bob crable.

[coltsfanatic24]

1 - We don't know when we'll pick.

We could pick first, we could @ number 20 and anything in between. At this point, it's way to early to call and it's pure speculation to try to predict anything before a single down has been played of the season. Maybe we will win 7 games, maybe we'll win two or three or maybe we'll witness "a perfect storm" and we'll reach the playoffs.. But at this point it's just guessing.

2 - You might think Angerer/Conner is "good", but speculating about how Grigson et al feels about them, compared to Te'o, is just that - Speculation. Some might argue that picking Patrick Willis @ 11th was a good move for the 49ers. Maybe even the best pick they could have made. Who's to say that, say, picking Te'o @ 11th wouldn't be the best move we can make when/if that time comes? So categorically dismissing that we'll pick a ILB/MLB seems a little premature.

If we pick first, there's no way we'll pick Te'o, but if we pick around 10-15th it's a completely different matter. Amerson, Woods, Rhodes, Allen, Jarvis Jones, Olutelei might very well be gone by then and that opens up a whole new perspective

teo is a good player but he's not worth picking when we have angerer who was top 5 in the nfl in tackling. we drafted fleener over upshaw even though upshaw was rated higher because te was a glaring need. the biggest need on our team now in order is cb,nt,rt,ss. most analyst have us at 6-10 which will be #7pick and if that happens will draft jarvis jones,mingo,or even keenan allen. i think will go 10-6 and draft eric reid ss out of lsu or nt star loutelei from utah.

[CopenhagenColt]

teo is a good player but he's not worth picking when we have angerer who was top 5 in the nfl in tackling. we drafted fleener over upshaw even though upshaw was rated higher because te was a glaring need. the biggest need on our team now in order is cb,nt,rt,ss. most analyst have us at 6-10 which will be #7pick and if that happens will draft jarvis jones,mingo,or even keenan allen. i think will go 10-6 and draft eric reid ss out of lsu or nt star loutelei from utah.

And yet the analyst don't "know" where we will pick in the draft. It's a guess. Maybe we'll pick earlier, maybe we'll pick later.

Other teams might pick Jarvis Jones ahead of us. Some of the players mentioned in all these draft threads, could have serious injuries before then, just like players on our roster could (just like Ijalana).

What we "need" right now, might be quite different when it's time for the draft. Maybe we'll sign a couple of CB FA's, Chapman could very well be turn out to be our new NT and if Zbikowski/Bethea does well at safety, like I think they'll do, I doubt that we'll go for a SS in the first round.

All I'm saying is that there are way to many factors that could change before the 2013 draft, for us to claim with any kind of certainty what we need in the 2013 draft, or who we should be picking at that time. Let's not pretend otherwise.

[Moncrief]

Let's wait 4-8 weeks into the season before we come to a conclusion. Or better yet after week 16

[funktacious2]

While, I don't think it's impossible we fall in that range, I don't feel confident Teo will be in that range. Just look at this year and the crazy amount of guys who came out of no where and were drafted in the middle of the 1st.