Breaking News: According to ESPN, Saints LB Johnathon Vilma has filed a 'defamation' lawsuit against Roger Goodell. How do you think that will help hi

[ReMeDy]

Looks like my title got cut off. It should read: "Breaking News: According to ESPN, Saints LB Johnathon Vilma has filed a 'defamation' lawsuit against Roger Goodell. How do you think that will help him with his appeal to the judge, jury and executioner????"

lol jeez, I wonder why it got cut off . "Judge, jury and executioner?" If I wouldn't know better, you were intentionally padding the topic title to make yours stand out.

Frankly, I'd like a mod to edit the topic down to at least two lines.

[HungarianColtsFan]

My first thoght is that his lawyer's name isn't Eli Stone.

My second thought is, that will affect obviously negatively his appeal.

My third thought is, that possibly this lawsuit will reveal details of Bounty-gate a little more.

[BrentMc11]

lol jeez, I wonder why it got cut off . "Judge, jury and executioner?" If I wouldn't know better, you were intentionally padding the topic title to make yours stand out.

Frankly, I'd like a mod to edit the topic down to at least two lines.

The players signed off on a new CBA that allowed Commissioner Goddell to have the powers to make these decisions. Now the 'power play' is an attempt to 'reel back in' said powers.

I posted the same topic in Status updates....was unaware the topics were shorter.

[IndyTrav]

I'm assuming Goodell will only have to pull out one little quote, or proveable instance to the courts and this whole case will be in shambles for Vilma.....

And I'm also sure the TEAM of lawyers the NFL trots out are going to run Vilma into the ground...

[Nadine]

Unemployment???? Lol

[Nadine]

Has anyone considered that he might not have done what he's accused of? No one but Goddell has seen the evidence. If nothing else, the lawsuit might force the documents to be released.

I think the Vilma punishment was too harsh. Suspending a player for a year is much worse than suspending a coach for a year based on length of career. The coaches were warned to knock off the program - the players weren't given a direct warning from the league. Who knew if they even knew that the league was investigating.

He's also very specific claiming he never paid for injury. That's different than saying he never paid. If he never paid for injury, 1 year suspension is too long. If he did - Goddell needs to show the evidence.

Do you really think that Goodell would hand out this punishment if he were not absolutely sure?

something has to be done to protect the integrity of this game.

I don't usually necessarily believe that where there is smoke there is fire. In this case I do

Perhaps you are right that there is discrepancy between punishments for players and coaches. Maybe they should make the coaches LONGER!

[Peyton and Eli fan]

Do you really think that Goodell would hand out this punishment if he were not absolutely sure?

something has to be done to protect the integrity of this game.

I don't usually necessarily believe that where there is smoke there is fire. In this case I do

Perhaps you are right that there is discrepancy between punishments for players and coaches. Maybe they should make the coaches LONGER!

I would like to know what the evidence is before I decide whether 1 year is appropriate or not. He would have to have specific proof that Vilma paid for injury (and not just for good plays) for me to think that 1 year is appropriate. I would like to know if there's a money trail and not just word of mouth. Big talk is one thing and actually carrying it out is another. I would like to know if the players were warned to knock it off or if that message from the league never carried down.

[Nadine]

I would like to know what the evidence is before I decide whether 1 year is appropriate or not. He would have to have specific proof that Vilma paid for injury (and not just for good plays) for me to think that 1 year is appropriate. I would like to know if there's a money trail and not just word of mouth. Big talk is one thing and actually carrying it out is another. I would like to know if the players were warned to knock it off or if that message from the league never carried down.

Personally, I trust Goodell to make these calls.

[Peyton and Eli fan]

Also, if the public and Vilma aren't allowed to see the the evidence because someone is being protected, I get that. But, there should be a mechanism for an arbitrator to then review the evidence. I don't know what the NFLPA was thinking in not fighting for an appeal process that doesn't go right back to Goodell. I would think Sean Payton, etc... wish there was a different process as well.

[Peyton and Eli fan]

Personally, I trust Goodell to make these calls.

I don't. Too much power in one person's hands is never good.

[Nadine]

I don't. Too much power in one person's hands is never good.

Yeah but bosses all over the country make these decisions all the time.

My sister in law just lost a job she's had for 10 years because a new manager came in.........and didn't like her.

That's life

[Peyton and Eli fan]

Yeah but bosses all over the country make these decisions all the time.

My sister in law just lost a job she's had for 10 years because a new manager came in.........and didn't like her.

That's life

That's why I'm happy to be in a union. The players are in a union. They just shouldn't have given up this right. Concentrated too much on money in negotiations and not enough on these issues. Ultimately, I can't feel too bad for the players, because they signed off on the deal giving him that power.

[southwest1]

I don't. Too much power in one person's hands is never good.

Yeah but bosses all over the country make these decisions all the time.

My sister in law just lost a job she's had for 10 years because a new manager came in.........and didn't like her.

That's life

Maureen,

I'm sorry your sister in law lost her position because a new manager was not found of her. But, unless a venture capitalist came in, bought the company, & sold the business off into pieces for raw materials overseas, I find it hard to believe that your sister in law had no recourse here.

Collective bargaining & seniority should account for something in this country still IMO. However, I will admit that bosses can & do wield a ton of power over their employees under their jurisdiction for the most part. I have a few lawyers in my family that would never take the unlawful termination of a relative from a position lying down or quietly. They always come prepared to fight & to defend their work related rights.

[oldunclemark]

Has anyone considered that he might not have done what he's accused of? No one but Goddell has seen the evidence. If nothing else, the lawsuit might force the documents to be released.

I think the Vilma punishment was too harsh. Suspending a player for a year is much worse than suspending a coach for a year based on length of career. The coaches were warned to knock off the program - the players weren't given a direct warning from the league. Who knew if they even knew that the league was investigating.

He's also very specific claiming he never paid for injury. That's different than saying he never paid. If he never paid for injury, 1 year suspension is too long. If he did - Goddell needs to show the evidence.

P & E..

Vilma cant walk that walk....because that's not the only wrong done here..

If he paid for any type of knockout hit.....he is illegal in the eyes of the NFL and immoral in the eyes of everyone who plays football.

Goddell would should HIM the evidence if he had shown up to meet with him..

Goddell isnt going to show the evidence on ESPN.

In my mind, Vilma should have been suspended for life....and it doenst mattre f he was or wasnt warned

The bounty 'system' attacks the very core of the game Its players...and demands incapacitating hits.

You dont have to be warned not to intend to injure your opponent

An equal crime is that guys like Drew Brees dont spesk out against what his defense did.

But that would take a lot of courage

And no, I have not consisdered that Goddell made all this up specifically to ban one Saints linebacker.

To me, that is not a realistic thought.

[oldunclemark]

I don't. Too much power in one person's hands is never good.

The players gave old man Godell that right and reaffirmed it in the last player contract...

Pro athlets will NEVEER disciopline themselves.

[Peyton and Eli fan]

I agree that the players should have met with Goodell and they should have not signed off on the discipline part of the CBA. That's why I'm not going to go on a rant about their rights or anything. I'm just not convinced that Vilma is "more guilty" than anyone else and deserves the harshest sentence shy of Greg Williams.

I hear all of the players saying there's a difference between hurting other players and injuring other players. A 1 year suspension needs to clearly come down on the side of paying for injury.

[oldunclemark]

I agree that the players should have met with Goodell and they should have not signed off on the discipline part of the CBA. That's why I'm not going to go on a rant about their rights or anything. I'm just not convinced that Vilma is "more guilty" than anyone else and deserves the harshest sentence shy of Greg Williams.

I hear all of the players saying there's a difference between hurting other players and injuring other players. A 1 year suspension needs to clearly come down on the side of paying for injury.

Vilma is eventually going to have to meet with Godell...In person or in court.

I guess I dont understand how a hit that knocks you out and requires you to be helped off the field is not an injury..

If players feel it is, then its a good thing they arent in control of discipline..

That's going to be a hard arguement to make in front of a jury

You and i dont have to be convinced that Vilma is guilty..or not guilty....and the NFL is certainly right and legal not to publicize the details in personell matters

..Vilma can. if he wishes..

The idea that he deos not know what he is being accused of is not a serious thought to me.

I think he's lying.

He can give a full hour interview to ESPN or the NFL Network at ANY TIME saying what he did and didnt do. Nothing stops him.

But he hasnt yet./

Probably because he doesnt want every other player in the NFL to know what he did do.

.and because he doesnt want to lie on tape about what he didnt do..

[FireJimCaldwell]

The NFL has a history of not "providing evidence" to the public, or ignoring things all together.

With the Patriots and spygate, the NFL did a disservice to the teams and their fans by not providing a list of the games that they had proof of the cheating happening. This was a good thing for the Patriots and their fans, but for the other teams that were likely victims of their actions, it is not fair at all.

With Mike Vick, Goodell ignored a failed drug test and that was never tacked on to his suspension.

I can't blame Vilma for not wanting to see the evidence.

This is another scenario, like the Patriots situation where the NFL should publish exactly what proof they have.

The NFL did have an outside source investigate the same information as they investigated on their own. IIRC that investigator confirmed the NFL's findings.

Vilma is obviously using this as a strategic tool to get the information presented to him.

[oldunclemark]

I agee that the NFL doenst provide evidence of player/coach wrongdoing to the public..

But that would open a lot of legal doors for retaliation. Fans cant sue the NFL. Players can.

Vilma could have gotten the evidence presented to him had he gone to meet with the commisioner when he was asked.

The NFL cant force him to come to the NFL office...

This is not a one-man thing. Godell did not do the investigation himself..

Vilma thought he could play the 'gangsta' and beat the rap simply by ignoring it and keep on keepn' on.

Just because you dont show up for the court case does not mean you cant be found guilty.

he seriously needed to defend himself when he was asked to. He'd have saved legal fees.

[southwest1]

P & E..

Vilma cant walk that walk....because that's not the only wrong done here..

If he paid for any type of knockout hit.....he is illegal in the eyes of the NFL and immoral in the eyes of everyone who plays football.

Goddell would should HIM the evidence if he had shown up to meet with him..

Goddell isnt going to show the evidence on ESPN.

In my mind, Vilma should have been suspended for life....and it doenst mattre f he was or wasnt warned

The bounty 'system' attacks the very core of the game Its players...and demands incapacitating hits.

You dont have to be warned not to intend to injure your opponent

An equal crime is that guys like Drew Brees dont spesk out against what his defense did.

But that would take a lot of courage

And no, I have not consisdered that Goddell made all this up specifically to ban one Saints linebacker.

To me, that is not a realistic thought.

Vilma will lose his defamation case against the NFL & Roger Goodell. A judge will throw the case out. A suspension does not rise to the level of character & reputation assassination in the court of public opinion. Vilma had ample opportunity to speak with the commissioner about these alleged crimes & he choose to remain deaf, dumb, & silent. A colossal mistake on his part.

Drew Brees can't vocalize any objections to what 27-28 players on the defense may or may not have done from a bounty perspective because it would demolish team chemistry in that Saints lock room forever. His only move; support his team mates completely. Plus, Brees is in the middle of new contract discussions & he can't afford to rock or capsize the franchise boat either.

[Peyton and Eli fan]

Vilma is eventually going to have to meet with Godell...In person or in court.

I guess I dont understand how a hit that knocks you out and requires you to be helped off the field is not an injury..

If players feel it is, then its a good thing they arent in control of discipline..

That's going to be a hard arguement to make in front of a jury

You and i dont have to be convinced that Vilma is guilty..or not guilty....and the NFL is certainly right and legal not to publicize the details in personell matters

..Vilma can. if he wishes..

The idea that he deos not know what he is being accused of is not a serious thought to me.

I think he's lying.

He can give a full hour interview to ESPN or the NFL Network at ANY TIME saying what he did and didnt do. Nothing stops him.

But he hasnt yet./

Probably because he doesnt want every other player in the NFL to know what he did do.

.and because he doesnt want to lie on tape about what he didnt do..

What I hear all of the players say is that if you play the game cleanly and someone gets hurt, that's just a part of the game. If you purposely try to injure someone, that's where the line is crossed. If hard, clean hits are rewarded that's different than being rewarded because someone got carted off.

Now, if he's guilty of paying specifically for cart offs or for injuries, then I agree with the punishment. I'm just keeping my mind open to the possibility that he didn't pay for injuries or pay more for injuries.

[oldunclemark]

Vilma will lose his defamation case against the NFL & Roger Goodell. A judge will throw the case out. A suspension does not rise to the level of character & reputation assassination in the court of public opinion. Vilma had ample opportunity to speak with the commissioner about these alleged crimes & he choose to remain deaf, dumb, & silent. A colossal mistake on his part.

Drew Brees can't vocalize any objections to what 27-28 players on the defense may or may not have done from a bounty perspective because it would demolish team chemistry in that Saints lock room forever. His only move; support his team mates completely. Plus, Brees is in the middle of new contract discussions & he can't afford to rock or capsize the franchise boat either.

Brees should stand up for what's right and wrong.

Part of his well-cultivated imnage is that he's the face of the franchise and an upright guy.

I admit ot would take a tougher man than apparently he is to stand up against the wrong his defrensive players admittedly did.

But its the tough choices that define you.

What I hear all of the players say is that if you play the game cleanly and someone gets hurt, that's just a part of the game. If you purposely try to injure someone, that's where the line is crossed. If hard, clean hits are rewarded that's different than being rewarded because someone got carted off.

Now, if he's guilty of paying specifically for cart offs or for injuries, then I agree with the punishment. I'm just keeping my mind open to the possibility that he didn't pay for injuries or pay more for injuries.

Cart offs are injuries...I guess that's my point.

In the age if concussiojn awareness....cartoffs ARE injuries...and the issue is the paying for the cartoff

Again, Godell didnt do the investigation with his own hands. He just saw the results.

Folks are obviously on record as saying Vilma paid for 'cart offs'.

..and he never disputed it officially until after the suspension.

[JoKeR]

Has anyone considered that he might not have done what he's accused of? No one but Goddell has seen the evidence. If nothing else, the lawsuit might force the documents to be released.

I think the Vilma punishment was too harsh. Suspending a player for a year is much worse than suspending a coach for a year based on length of career. The coaches were warned to knock off the program - the players weren't given a direct warning from the league. Who knew if they even knew that the league was investigating.

He's also very specific claiming he never paid for injury. That's different than saying he never paid. If he never paid for injury, 1 year suspension is too long. If he did - Goddell needs to show the evidence.

I think the evidence needs to come out. Roger is showing a history of withholding evidence that needs to stop. Plus it would be funny if Goodell released a ton of evidence that it happened.

[southwest1]

Brees should stand up for what's right and wrong.

Part of his well-cultivated imnage is that he's the face of the franchise and an upright guy.

I admit ot would take a tougher man than apparently he is to stand up against the wrong his defrensive players admittedly did.

But its the tough choices that define you.

Cart offs are injuries...I guess that's my point.

In the age if concussiojn awareness....cartoffs ARE injuries...and the issue is the paying for the cartoff

Again, Godell didnt do the investigation with his own hands. He just saw the results.

Folks are obviously on record as saying Vilma paid for 'cart offs'.

..and he never disputed it officially until after the suspension.

In a perfect utopian world, every act of wrong doing would be properly addressed & punished. But, we don't live in a perfect world now do we?

Yes, Drew Brees is the face of the New Orleans Saints organization & any top field general sets the tone, scope, & conduct of all the players inside that team facility. But, to rat out team mates for misconduct that no one outside the commissioner's office has even seen yet would be a monumental disaster on Drew's part. Team chemistry would be ruined, contract negoiations could fall apart, & god forbid Drew lands in Miami.

Tough choices may undoubtedly define a person's character & moral compass, but morality won't put food on the table like a steady paycheck will IMO.

I appreciate your moral conviction oldunclemark & I do respect it though.

[Nadine]

That's why I'm happy to be in a union. The players are in a union. They just shouldn't have given up this right. Concentrated too much on money in negotiations and not enough on these issues. Ultimately, I can't feel too bad for the players, because they signed off on the deal giving him that power.

Never been in a union. Must be nice

I think the players union should be more concerned with player health and well being

[Nadine]

In a perfect utopian world, every act of wrong doing would be properly addressed & punished. But, we don't live in a perfect world now do we?

Yes, Drew Brees is the face of the New Orleans Saints organization & any top field general sets the tone, scope, & conduct of all the players inside that team facility. But, to rat out team mates for misconduct that no one outside the commissioner's office has even seen yet would be a monumental disaster on Drew's part. Team chemistry would be ruined, contract negoiations could fall apart, & god forbid Drew lands in Miami.

Tough choices may undoubtedly define a person's character & moral compass, but morality won't put food on the table like a steady paycheck will IMO.

I appreciate your moral conviction oldunclemark & I do respect it though.

That's what way it is........... hard to believe or not

I know a lot of people who have lost their jobs for economy related reasons.

Just reality is all it is

[Peyton and Eli fan]

That's what way it is........... hard to believe or not

I know a lot of people who have lost their jobs for economy related reasons.

Just reality is all it is

My union doesn't prevent me from being laid off for economic reasons. It helps protect me from unfair termination or being replaced by my new boss' nephew or something.

[Nadine]

My union doesn't prevent me from being laid off for economic reasons. It helps protect me from unfair termination or being replaced by my new boss' nephew or something.

We should have a thread about being fired for stupid reasons.

Happened to me

Mark Twain once said, If you have never been fired, then you are not trying!

Organizations have their own goals and sometimes weasely ways of accomplishing them.

Lesson learned, Don't feel safe just because you work hard and achieve more than any one else.

You just shake it off and figure it's time to move on

Other lesson learned, look for integrity in the people you work for and with.

[Peyton and Eli fan]

We should have a thread about being fired for stupid reasons.

Happened to me

Mark Twain once said, If you have never been fired, then you are not trying!

Organizations have their own goals and sometimes weasely ways of accomplishing them.

Lesson learned, Don't feel safe just because you work hard and achieve more than any one else.

You just shake it off and figure it's time to move on

Other lesson learned, look for integrity in the people you work for and with.

yes, but it's hard when the cast of characters changes on you like with your sister in law. Wouldn't it be nice to all be self-employed.

Anyway, I think the union needs to concern itself with fairness as well as health and safety issues. It's a basic responsibility of a union. however, in this case the union is in a tricky spot because they represent both the accused and the victims. Very tight rope to walk. Maybe it's good that Vilma is going outside the process and getting his own representation - takes the fight away from NFL vs. NFLPA which I'm sure we've all had enough of.

[Nadine]

yes, but it's hard when the cast of characters changes on you like with your sister in law. Wouldn't it be nice to all be self-employed.

Anyway, I think the union needs to concern itself with fairness as well as health and safety issues. It's a basic responsibility of a union. however, in this case the union is in a tricky spot because they represent both the accused and the victims. Very tight rope to walk. Maybe it's good that Vilma is going outside the process and getting his own representation - takes the fight away from NFL vs. NFLPA which I'm sure we've all had enough of.

True!

[BrentMc11]

Sorry I missed this discussion. I think we need to diagnose the discussion. I have zero problem with unions, but when a CBA is as written, Roger Goodell is in charge!

Unions serve a purpose in a big time way, and I have dealt with union heads all of my life. Some heads loved me....some did not. Hoffa Jr. did not like me, but he respected me. It is what it is! Today, guys get fired 25 times and still have a job ....union Some are on a phone call....and get fired (non-union)

According to the current rules, Mr. Vilma is really trying to save face. If I was losing the salary I would have appealed and showed up "promptly" at my appeal. WHERE WAS VILMA!???????????????

While we still want to know as fans all of the "good stuff,"

[Tony Sullivan]

Little bit of a legal background here...

Vilma will probably lose this case, but what this case will force to be revealed will be much more important to getting Vilma back on the field (in his hopes anyways).

What this lawsuit will do is effectively force Goodell to show his evidence. Two things can happen here;

If he has no evidence, the suspension will either be dropped or the NFL risks getting sued and they would most likely lose because they are going against their personal conduct policy. I really doubt the legal experts of the NFL would actually risk punishing a player with zero evidence, Players make more than enough to hire the country's best lawyers and a mufti-billion dollar corporation like the NFL will be aware of this.

If he does have evidence, we will find out exactly how much evidence he has and then we can determine if it was justified that Vilma's level of contribution in the bounties was enough to suspend him without pay for a year.

In essence, what Vilma is doing is forcing the commisioner to reveal the evidence. Vilma must believe that his level of participation was not equal to what the NFL portrayed it to be with his suspension.

[BrentMc11]

Little bit of a legal background here...

Vilma will probably lose this case, but what this case will force to be revealed will be much more important to getting Vilma back on the field (in his hopes anyways).

What this lawsuit will do is effectively force Goodell to show his evidence. Two things can happen here;

If he has no evidence, the suspension will either be dropped or the NFL risks getting sued and they would most likely lose because they are going against their personal conduct policy. I really doubt the legal experts of the NFL would actually risk punishing a player with zero evidence, Players make more than enough to hire the country's best lawyers and a mufti-billion dollar corporation like the NFL will be aware of this.

If he does have evidence, we will find out exactly how much evidence he has and then we can determine if it was justified that Vilma's level of contribution in the bounties was enough to suspend him without pay for a year.

In essence, what Vilma is doing is forcing the commisioner to reveal the evidence. Vilma must believe that his level of participation was not equal to what the NFL portrayed it to be with his suspension.

Yes it does!!!!! Let us look at the CBA! Let us analyze ANY CBA!

I have lived this for 25 years!! The CBA! It gave Roger Goodell ALL of the power!!!!!!

[Peyton and Eli fan]

Yes it does!!!!! Let us look at the CBA! Let us analyze ANY CBA!

I have lived this for 25 years!! The CBA! It gave Roger Goodell ALL of the power!!!!!!

If YOU wish to be upset P and E............so be it. I wish YOU the best! PlEASE MAKE A VALID POIINT......I HAVE NOT SEEN ONE!

You are replying to someone who is not me.

My only point is that I haven't decided whether I think Vilma deserves a 1 year suspension based on what I know.

[BrentMc11]

I will go with anyone on this topic!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unions are unions.......DEALS are DEALS!

Vilma is ......

Been there/DONE THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited May 19, 2012 by shecolt
personal shot

[Peyton and Eli fan]

I will go with anyone on this topic!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unions are unions.......DEALS are DEALS!

Vilma is ......

P and E.....YOU are clueless! Been there/DONE THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU are out of line. I have said right along that they can't complain too much because they gave Goodell all of the power. I think that was a mistake on the NFLPA's part. I don't know why you think it's ok to pick a fight with me.

[BrentMc11]

You are replying to someone who is not me.

My only point is that I haven't decided whether I think Vilma deserves a 1 year suspension based on what I know.

Reading Your 'stuff!' How an I wrong? You must be 22 and not understand? I do not CARE if U and ELI are in a union! What is your POINT! ??????????? You are so wanting to kick.....kick me!

[BrentMc11]

YOU are out of line. I have said right along that they can't complain too much because they gave Goodell all of the power. I think that was a mistake on the NFLPA's part. I don't know why you think it's ok to pick a fight with me.

Out of line? Go away!

[Tony Sullivan]

Reading Your 'stuff!' How an I wrong? You must be 22 and not understand? I do not CARE if U and ELI are in a union! What is your POINT! ??????????? You are so wanting to kick.....kick me!

I'm sure if you had the resources Vilma has you would have fought whatever job you got >>>ed out of too. The commisioner can cite whatever subsections he wants out of the CBA but it still has to be truthful, fair and proportional to comply with federal law.

This is what I'm telling you;

Roger Goodell can have a sheet of paper that YOU signed that says he can suspend YOU however long HE wants for ANY violation you are found guilty of and he doesn't even have to show YOU the evidence. But unless you're the first or only guy to ever be suspended for that violation, it has to be fair and proportional to others that have committed the same violation.

---

What Vilma is doing is saying that Goodell is making this all up through the defamation lawsuit. Now Goodell will HAVE to show what evidence he used in his decision to suspend Vilma. Once the evidence is out, then we can determine if Goodell treated Vilma fairly or if he was singled out like Vilma claimed.

[Peyton and Eli fan]

Please don't start a topic for discussion and then yell at people when they, you know, discuss it.