Richardson 2 minute drive and after

[Superman]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

I don't know how folks think of play calling, but I do know the complaints flow when the called plays fail and not when the plays work.  

 

Not in a 2 minute situation, a shoot out, or a blow out, I assume Shane called the plays he called because he thought they were more likely to be executed than the plays he did not call.  Why would he start a game with plays he felt were more difficult to execute? 

 

I'm not talking about "folks." I'm the one saying I think Steichen should have done a better job with play calling yesterday. I'm talking about me. 

 

And I guess your response is 'if Shane called it, it must be the right choice.' 

 

Two other people in this thread have offered reasonable alternatives. Most likely, the intention was exploit a perceived weakness in the Dolphins defense. 'They've given up big pass plays, Richardson can hit big pass plays, let's test that out right away.' Also, the last time we saw Richardson, he was hitting big plays against the Steelers, so they wanted to pick up where they left off. All of that makes sense to me. 

 

What I think would have been good would be to make sure they scheme up some easy completions -- which are a staple of NFL offenses, as you acknowledged earlier -- so that the offense could avoid the sluggish start. To Steichen's credit, the offense has started out hot the last three games. I think his early script yesterday was off balance. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Great thread here with all 22 tape thst shows good stuff from AR.

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[ShuteAt168]

56 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yeah, heaven forbid we call a screen play or something that might help the passing game get going. Instead, our young QB that we're trying to develop into a pro level player has the deepest intended target rate in the NFL.

 

Hold on to that 48.5% stat, though. It's a real conversation killer.

You keep harping on the short throw stuff. I don’t have the best memory but ESPN has AR’s first three throws as this: 

 

Incomplete short right to Mitchell. 

Incomplete short left to Ogletree. 

Incomplete short left to Granson. 

 

It seems Steichen did try to get AR some short easy throws early. The bottom line is that AR isn’t an accurate passer right now. I hope he improves because I like the Colts. You seem irritated by the 48.5 stat but I didn’t make it up. 

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I'm not talking about "folks." I'm the one saying I think Steichen should have done a better job with play calling yesterday. I'm talking about me. 

 

And I guess your response is 'if Shane called it, it must be the right choice.' 

 

Two other people in this thread have offered reasonable alternatives. Most likely, the intention was exploit a perceived weakness in the Dolphins defense. 'They've given up big pass plays, Richardson can hit big pass plays, let's test that out right away.' Also, the last time we saw Richardson, he was hitting big plays against the Steelers, so they wanted to pick up where they left off. All of that makes sense to me. 

 

What I think would have been good would be to make sure they scheme up some easy completions -- which are a staple of NFL offenses, as you acknowledged earlier -- so that the offense could avoid the sluggish start. To Steichen's credit, the offense has started out hot the last three games. I think his early script yesterday was off balance. 

I'm not someone who blindly defends the FO or the HC by hiding behind the idea that they know more than everybody because they hold the position.  But I'm confident that SS chose the plays because he thought they would work better than the short throws.  Exploiting a D weakness, sure, but I don't need to know the reason to have confidence that he was calling the plays he had thought had the best chance of working.   

 

Getting back to the screen pass, its not that AR can't throw a screen pass, its that an NFL QB has to throw a screen pass correctly EVERY TIME he throws it.  If not, just once, its a Wentz pick six most likely.  It only takes one bad pass to change a close game,  If AR is inaccurate with certain passes 25% of the time in practice, SS might have those plays lower down on the play list.  Just plausible speculation.

 

Did the early game planning against Pitt include short passes?  I don't remember.  I remember it was JT heavy with I think some AR scrambles.  It was a highly successful running game that stood out to me, which was a surprise given the typical Pitt D.

[DougDew]

10 minutes ago, ShuteAt168 said:

You keep harping on the short throw stuff. I don’t have the best memory but ESPN has AR’s first three throws as this: 

 

Incomplete short right to Mitchell. 

Incomplete short left to Ogletree. 

Incomplete short left to Granson. 

 

It seems Steichen did try to get AR some short easy throws early. The bottom line is that AR isn’t an accurate passer right now. I hope he improves because I like the Colts. You seem irritated by the 48.5 stat but I didn’t make it up. 

Yeah, when there is a play calling issue on the forum, my usual go to is the ESPN game recap.  Has all of the plays laid out.  AR did not start out 3/11 because Shane only called tough pass plays.

[ColtAndOrioles]

Look how the Tampa Bay coaches are calling the game tonight against the Ravens.  This is what the Colts should be doing but aren't.  Score should be 14-0 in stead of 10-0 as they got called for a bad penalty.  (edit now 10-7)

 

They are using Mayfield the way that SS should be using AR.  Rollouts.  Quick screens.  Slants.  Motion.  RPO's with lots of weirdness.  Hurry up.  All mixed in.

 

This is why I think SS and the Colts are doing AR no favors.  They make him play the most basic, mundane way possible. Which is either drop back or just flat out run it from the get go.  Which is how he usually gets hurt.   He has shown over and over that he is at his best in a frantic, rollout, up tempo/hurry up scenario.  But in a controlled way.  AR seems as if he is not being taught or allowed to do any of that.    That is 100% coaching...or lack thereof..

 

Instead our coaches are trying to make him into Peyton 2.0.   Drop back.  Pocket.  Deep ball.  Instead of playing to AR's strength's.  Don't get me wrong, AR needs to learn how to slide and protect himself as well.  But again, I put that on coaching.    It should not be that hard to teach a competent NFL qb to slide.  I mean we are not dealing with gerbils here.

 

People keep saying what an offensive guru that SS is.  But I just don't see it.    His offense is the same as Reichs.  AR needs to learn....and should have been taught already by the coaching staff....that completing short passes that get first downs are the key to a long life as as NFL QB.     The medium to longer passes are just the icing on the cake. 

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I would like to know AR passing stats in the 4th quarter. I can’t find them.

[Superman]

44 minutes ago, ShuteAt168 said:

You keep harping on the short throw stuff. I don’t have the best memory but ESPN has AR’s first three throws as this: 

 

Incomplete short right to Mitchell. 

Incomplete short left to Ogletree. 

Incomplete short left to Granson. 

 

It seems Steichen did try to get AR some short easy throws early. The bottom line is that AR isn’t an accurate passer right now. I hope he improves because I like the Colts. You seem irritated by the 48.5 stat but I didn’t make it up. 

 

Why not go watch the first two possessions and analyze the play calls? 

 

First called pass play was actually on 2nd and 12, and Richardson got pressured and kept it for a six yard gain.

 

The next pass play was 3rd and 6. That was the incompletion to Mitchell, where Richardson tried to squeeze the ball in-between two defenders. So "short right to Mitchell" isn't exactly an easy throw.

 

Next pass play was 1st and 10, vertical concept, and the incomplete short pass to Ogletree was actually ten yards downfield, between two defenders, and got tipped by one of those defenders. 

 

Next pass play was 2nd and 10, another vertical concept, Granson against a DB in man coverage, eight yards past the line of scrimmage, and the pass hit Granson in the hands.

 

So no, Steichen did NOT try to get Richardson short throws early. And no, Richardson did NOT miss those early throws. 

[Superman]

46 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I'm not someone who blindly defends the FO or the HC by hiding behind the idea that they know more than everybody because they hold the position.  But I'm confident that SS chose the plays because he thought they would work better than the short throws.  Exploiting a D weakness, sure, but I don't need to know the reason to have confidence that he was calling the plays he had thought had the best chance of working.   

 

Isn't that a given? Of course the play caller called plays that he thought would work. How is that a reasonable counter to my point that he should have called different plays?

 

Quote

Getting back to the screen pass, its not that AR can't throw a screen pass, its that an NFL QB has to throw a screen pass correctly EVERY TIME he throws it.  If not, just once, its a Wentz pick six most likely.  It only takes one bad pass to change a close game,  If AR is inaccurate with certain passes 25% of the time in practice, SS might have those plays lower down on the play list.  Just plausible speculation.

 

First, I'm not exclusively talking about screen passes. I'm talking about high percentage passes that can jumpstart the passing game. Second, Steichen called plays for high percentage passes later in the game, so the idea that he doesn't trust Richardson to execute these plays is silly.

 

Quote

Did the early game planning against Pitt include short passes?  I don't remember.  I remember it was JT heavy with I think some AR scrambles.  It was a highly successful running game that stood out to me, which was a surprise given the typical Pitt D.

 

They started the Steelers game by running the ball, and then they used play action.

[ImissPeyton18]

19 hours ago, Thunderbolt said:

Remember we played against a back up QB and a third string QB.  Otherwise the score would not favor us... Still not sold on AR, worst QB rating in the league.

Tebow's numbers were very similar. Gators are not known for producing stellar QB's that succeed in the pro ranks.

[JMichael557]

1 hour ago, ShuteAt168 said:

You keep harping on the short throw stuff. I don’t have the best memory but ESPN has AR’s first three throws as this: 

 

Incomplete short right to Mitchell. 

Incomplete short left to Ogletree. 

Incomplete short left to Granson. 

 

It seems Steichen did try to get AR some short easy throws early. The bottom line is that AR isn’t an accurate passer right now. I hope he improves because I like the Colts. You seem irritated by the 48.5 stat but I didn’t make it up. 

Here are the first 3 passes from all 22.  The first throw was a bad throw.  The second no one was open Ogletree was the closets but he failed to sit down in the zone an moved behind an defender, AR had no window to throw the ball other than where he threw it. Good throw. 3rd throw Granson did a button hook in front of Ramsey. AR hit him in the numbers and Granson could not catch the ball because of the contact with Ramsey. 2 or the 3 throws were as good as he  could do.

[ImissPeyton18]

6 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Can we please stop pretending that Anthony Richardson can't complete a simple screen pass? 

OK. Lets pretend he can!

[JMichael557]

Richardson

 

4th Barely misses AP who was double covered. 

5th Completion to Mitchel.

6th Quick pass to Cox  but he was covered and he threw it away

7th 30 yd pass to AP called back on penalty. (unbelievable throw)

8th on target to Granson over the middle, the Miami player jumps and is able to get a hand on the ball and knock it aside.

9th pass, Free Blitzer AR hits Mallory over the middle.

10th pass hits pittman in the chest.  Pittman is hit early by a Miami defender and does not make the catch

11th pass was accurate to Pittamn's 15-yard gain.

12th pass. 2 free Blitzers. AR breaks away from the sack and throws the ball away.

13 pass hits AP in hands and he drops it

14th 40 yd rope to Pittman.

 

So the Review is as follows. Every Pass AR threw in the first half 4 through 14 was on target.  He was 5 for 11 but had to throw 2 balls away so where he tried to complete a pass he was 5 for 9. On the 4 misses 2 hit the receivers in the chest and they were dropped on contact with the defender. AP dropped a pass that hit him in the hands.  He did have the one overthrow to AP on the deep ball.  So AR actually played very well. He threw the ball accurately.  The playcalling was very vanilla. If you want to fault him it would be for the fumble of the snap.

 

[ShuteAt168]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Why not go watch the first two possessions and analyze the play calls? 

 

First called pass play was actually on 2nd and 12, and Richardson got pressured and kept it for a six yard gain.

 

The next pass play was 3rd and 6. That was the incompletion to Mitchell, where Richardson tried to squeeze the ball in-between two defenders. So "short right to Mitchell" isn't exactly an easy throw.

 

Next pass play was 1st and 10, vertical concept, and the incomplete short pass to Ogletree was actually ten yards downfield, between two defenders, and got tipped by one of those defenders. 

 

Next pass play was 2nd and 10, another vertical concept, Granson against a DB in man coverage, eight yards past the line of scrimmage, and the pass hit Granson in the hands.

 

So no, Steichen did NOT try to get Richardson short throws early. And no, Richardson did NOT miss those early throws. 

These are good points you make. Here’s hoping AR starts hitting all the throws! 

[Mikemccoy84]

Doesn’t seem like we have had near as many rpo plays and our offensive line struggles with the blitz. I’d be curious to see how much more AR has been blitzed compared to Flacco when he was in. Not changing hot routes and getting the ball out quickly is what I feel is making AR look so bad. Also looked like he had spent his weeks off working throwing mechanics because he looked different on the intermediate passes and had some touch.

[throwing BBZ]

On 10/20/2024 at 10:41 PM, DavePSL said:

Just because he went from absolutely terrible in the first half to just below average in the second hald doesn't change my opinion and it's not just his accuracy. He let a CB (Ramsey) blitz him on back to back plays without making any adjustments and that's his read. Better believe we will get a big dose of that the next few weeks probably causing turnovers because AR isn't reading anything but his first read. He just throws it anyway instead of going through progressions and I felt he did a good job of that in the past. I cant explain it but he has definately regressed. His first game as a pro last year was wayyyy better than what he is showing now. You want to see natural progress from week to week and that is NOT what we are seeing. Not even close......Remember a few weeks ago when he asked the team to hang in there with him because he is going to play better . Hasn't come close to happening. BTW, SS is screwed because he can't even call easy throws for AR to get him going because he cant hit easy throws consistent enough to keep a drive going....Ughhhhh!

 

 You have correctly identified his limitations.

I'll take a different slant on his regression.

Probably just any o defensive staff recognizeing and reacting, attempting to take away from what he can do, and trying to force him into his weaknesses.

 Logically, having been through 2 training camps (mentally) and starting just a few games it clearly looks like he is not thinking up to the speed of the opposition.

 It's disappointing but shouldn't be a huge surprise.

 Yes, Ugghh! Maybe by the end of 2025 he will be considerably better with our expectations that he is on track for an even further upward high ceiling.

 What is most painful is watching and waiting when so many of us are up there in years and we want to watch some back to back to back years of high quality football and our Colts being Serious Contenders to play in the Super Bowl.

 We won't have 10 or our current starters by then I suspect so the Odds are like everyone else's. Pretty slim. Go Colts!

[crazycolt1]

I think the expectation of AR to be a fully developed franchise QB is unrealistic.  Even Josh Allen took a bit to grasp the difference between college and the pros. AR didn't even have enough college experience to even come close to a franchise QB in the NFL. 

I don't claim to know how he is going to turn out but neither does anyone else. 

[JMichael557]

What do people want AR to do? His passes are on target. Most of the time Receivers are not open. What do you think that he is not doing? 

[DougDew]

11 hours ago, Superman said:

Isn't that a given? Of course the play caller called plays that he thought would work. How is that a reasonable counter to my point that he should have called different plays?

It just goes back to the idea that calling high percentage passes helps AR get comfortable, but may not necessarily advance the chance of winning the game against a specific D.   If you say that calling high percentage passes advances the chance of winning the game, then why ever call anything other than a high percentage pass?   I think SS called the plays he thought would give the best chances of winning the game, and likely thought that the high percentage passes may not have been as high of a percentage since AR was the QB and not Flacco.

 

SS may have also wanted to open up the running game for lesser RBs to have room early on.   Later it seemed that MIA was stacking the box, where they might not have been doing that if we were throwing longer passes to start the game.  As I said, I don't think SS has ARs development as the centerpiece of his playcalling, its about winning the game in front of him while being handed his starting QB.

 

Having said that, it looks like we have a post that captured the play call and noted that short passes were called to start the game.  I don't know if that's the same as high percentage, but the idea that SS didn't call such plays isn't a given either.

 

 

[DougDew]

10 hours ago, JMichael557 said:

So the Review is as follows. Every Pass AR threw in the first half 4 through 14 was on target.  He was 5 for 11 but had to throw 2 balls away so where he tried to complete a pass he was 5 for 9. On the 4 misses 2 hit the receivers in the chest and they were dropped on contact with the defender. AP dropped a pass that hit him in the hands.  He did have the one overthrow to AP on the deep ball.  So AR actually played very well. He threw the ball accurately.  The playcalling was very vanilla. If you want to fault him it would be for the fumble of the snap.

Several passes required the receiver to use their catch radius to complete the pass.  Others were broken up because they were placed where the defender could defend them.  You can't put the burden on the play caller to get NFL receivers to run free like they do in college.  Ball placement is the sign of accuracy, not completions.  This is why completion percentage is a poor stat for evaluating accuracy in an NFL QB, but its the only thing people generally have to use, so that's why its used.  Its a decent proxy for the truth, but not wonderful.

[JAS90]

59 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I think the expectation of AR to be a fully developed franchise QB is unrealistic.  Even Josh Allen took a bit to grasp the difference between college and the pros. AR didn't even have enough college experience to even come close to a franchise QB in the NFL. 

I don't claim to know how he is going to turn out but neither does anyone else. 

 

ARs issues are due to a lack of skill (touch, accuracy, footwork/mechanics, decision making), not experience. The correlation between experience and skill is not linear. He doesn't get better the more he plays, the more he plays the more people see he doesn't have the skills to be a good QB. His issue is not lack of experience, that's just the narrative people use to excuse how bad he is. 

[JMichael557]

7 minutes ago, JAS90 said:

 

ARs issues are due to a lack of skill (touch, accuracy, footwork/mechanics, decision making), not experience. The correlation between experience and skill is not linear. He doesn't get better the more he plays, the more he plays the more people see he doesn't have the skills to be a good QB. His issue is not lack of experience, that's just the narrative people use to excuse how bad he is. 

 The problem with what you just said is that it does not match up with the film. In the Miami game, he threw the ball with touch (it is clear to see that he is working on not throwing the ball as hard as he has been). He was accurate on most of these throws as a result of better footwork when not running for his life, and I certainly did not see any bad decision-making.  Miami has a really good secondary and we did not have anyone coming open on most plays. 

[cdgacoltsfan]

10 hours ago, ImissPeyton18 said:

OK. Lets pretend he can!

Look up how many yards passing Josh Allen had this year against the Dolphins and get back to us. (.hint: Dolphins have the best pass D in the league )

[cdgacoltsfan]

17 minutes ago, JAS90 said:

 

ARs issues are due to a lack of skill (touch, accuracy, footwork/mechanics, decision making), not experience. The correlation between experience and skill is not linear. He doesn't get better the more he plays, the more he plays the more people see he doesn't have the skills to be a good QB. His issue is not lack of experience, that's just the narrative people use to excuse how bad he is. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

8 minutes ago, JMichael557 said:

 The problem with what you just said is that it does not match up with the film. In the Miami game, he threw the ball with touch (it is clear to see that he is working on not throwing the ball as hard as he has been). He was accurate on most of these throws as a result of better footwork when not running for his life, and I certainly did not see any bad decision-making.  Miami has a really good secondary and we did not have anyone coming open on most plays. 

This is a really good point actually. Some of those passes needed zip on them. It might be why Miami’s corners were able to break up the passes so easy. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7 minutes ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Look up how many yards passing Josh Allen had this year against the Dolphins and get back to us. (.hint: Dolphins have the best pass D in the league )

My guess is if Steichen would have come out and played from the start of the game like he did in the 4th colts would have put up more points. He probably should have ran him more to start the game. That’s how you beat the blitz. I bet that’s how bills were able to putt up so many points on them was by running Allen.

 

Edit I see TUA had 3 int and that’s why bills won 

[cdgacoltsfan]

27 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

My guess is if Steichen would have come out and played from the start of the game like he did in the 4th colts would have put up more points. He probably should have ran him more to start the game. That’s how you beat the blitz. I bet that’s how bills were able to putt up so many points on them was by running Allen.

 

Edit I see TUA had 3 int and that’s why bills won 

Allen had 139 yards passing

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Allen had 139 yards passing

I would have to go look but I bet he had a lot of short fields with TUA having 3 int. That might be why that’s all he had.

[2006Coltsbestever]

On 10/20/2024 at 8:40 PM, jvan1973 said:

I miss the aggressive laugh emoji

- this has plenty of impact  

[runthepost]

17 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

The Ravens disagree

Don’t think that’s a fair comparison. Lamar is a much more efficient passer

[Superman]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

It just goes back to the idea that calling high percentage passes helps AR get comfortable, but may not necessarily advance the chance of winning the game against a specific D.   If you say that calling high percentage passes advances the chance of winning the game, then why ever call anything other than a high percentage pass?   I think SS called the plays he thought would give the best chances of winning the game, and likely thought that the high percentage passes may not have been as high of a percentage since AR was the QB and not Flacco.

 

The bolded is not reasonable analysis. A good passing attack includes mix and balance.

 

And I'm not questioning whether Steichen felt his gameplan would give the team the best chance to win. Of course he did. The question is whether his gameplan DID give the team the best chance to win.

 

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

SS may have also wanted to open up the running game for lesser RBs to have room early on.   Later it seemed that MIA was stacking the box, where they might not have been doing that if we were throwing longer passes to start the game.  As I said, I don't think SS has ARs development as the centerpiece of his playcalling, its about winning the game in front of him while being handed his starting QB.

 

Having said that, it looks like we have a post that captured the play call and noted that short passes were called to start the game.  I don't know if that's the same as high percentage, but the idea that SS didn't call such plays isn't a given either.

 

What about the subsequent posts that are more intensive than looking at a play by play on ESPN? I guess it doesn't fit the prevailing narrative.

[Superman]

3 hours ago, JMichael557 said:

 The problem with what you just said is that it does not match up with the film. In the Miami game, he threw the ball with touch (it is clear to see that he is working on not throwing the ball as hard as he has been). He was accurate on most of these throws as a result of better footwork when not running for his life, and I certainly did not see any bad decision-making.  Miami has a really good secondary and we did not have anyone coming open on most plays. 

 

The throw in the middle of the field on the 2 minute drive, overthrown to Pittman, was probably a bad decision. Thankfully he overthrew it, because Pittman was double covered and it probably would have been deflected, if not picked off. 

 

Other than that, I mostly agree.

[Solid84]

36 minutes ago, runthepost said:

Don’t think that’s a fair comparison. Lamar is a much more efficient passer

The talk was the same though early on for Jackson. Many didn't believe he'd ever be a pocker passer either.

[JAS90]

4 hours ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

 

Please review any pre-draft analysis on AR, all his weaknesses remain the same. He is the exact same mediocre player he was at Florida. Is he the worst QB of all time? No. Is he below average in a lot of important QB traits? Yes. Colts fans want to believe what he might be vs what he actually is. 99% of people of who watch NFL will agree with me, this forum is in lalaland. 

[stitches]

41 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

The talk was the same though early on for Jackson. Many didn't believe he'd ever be a pocker passer either.

Polian thought Lamar should switch to playing WR in the league.  

[azcolt]

On 10/21/2024 at 12:56 AM, Rolltide_gocolts said:

Wellll he kinda is one of one…. We’ve never seen anything like him in the league… dude is Gonna tear the league up once it clicks 

Tear up the league? Maybe.

Tear up more body parts and miss many more games? Almost certainly. This guy is clueless as he exhibited again last Sunday running into defenders multiple times. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Colts had their most run yards of the season without Taylor. That right there shows how valuable AR running ability is and how much he opens the run game for others.