Colts have the 15th pick in the draft. (MERGE)

[w87r]

10 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

The best move Chicago could do is get an OT to protect their new asset I think. 

Which they could still do at #15.

 

24 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Our pick 15, 46, for CHI's pick 9 and their 2025 3rd rounder.  Or, 15, 82, pick 151 and our 2025 third rounder for their pick 9.

I don't see Ballard giving up #15 and #46 for #9, unless they sent #75 back as well and us giving #117 in return, of something.

 

So: #9, #75 for #15, #46, #117(puts trade within 15pts on the chart)(maybe 2025 5th to get closer?)

 

Or

 

#9 for #15,#82, 2025 3rd(your second option up there, not sure you'd need #151, but whatever if so)

 

 

That 2nd is too valuable this year(we don't need much, but what we can get there we need), to just toss in for a 3rd next year. If you're going to do that, I would just rather then throw in next year's 1st as well, and go get Harrison.

 

 

Anyway it goes Im not really wanting to trade up for Bowers. If he's there cool, but I don't like trading up for him

 

 

 

I'm think I'm almost the opposite of a lot of people right now.

 

I think if there is any year we should trade down, it's this season.

 

We already know he has (20ish players with 1st round grades)(hopefully a few more)

 

So can still get a major contributor while picking up an additional Day 2 pick. Where it just so happens is a pretty strong part.

 

So options:

 

Trade Up:

(2) players in Day 1 and 2(top 100)

(WR+CB?)

(TE+CB?)

Stay Put:

(3) players in Day 1 and 2(top 100)

(WR+CB+OL?)

(Edge+WR+CB?)

Trade Down:

(4) players in Day 1 and 2(top 100)

(WR+CB+OL+S)

(Edge+WR+CB+OL)

 

 

Obviously those positions can go a few other ways, but I just think how the team is assembled right now. Adding (4) more top 100s to fill out these positions is the better route than just (2).

[Stephen]

If we go cb give me Wiggins,  dejean, or Mitchell.  Arnold is too slow.

[throwing BBZ]

2 hours ago, w87r said:

Wilson was drafted for Pagano's system, I don't hold any defensive picks from the first draft against him.

 

Like I said, he was drafting for a coach he was forced to keep and drafted for a defensive system he didn't want to use. Then switched coach and systems the following year, when he was able to. Just is what it is, at least in my eyes.

 

 

EDIT: apologies not the place for this response.

 

 

Back to #15.

 

It's almost here, anticipation is building.

 

 Huh! Flowers is big but did run in the high 4.3's. The rest of our corners are all Wilson's. Big and slow, running in the 4.5's. 

 Ballard has 7 years of proof that he and Dodds live in the past regarding roster building.

 Steichen getting through to them and Ownership is where our hope lies.

[Stephen]

42 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Us giving up a 3rd and a 5th, or a 2nd and getting CHIs 2025 3rd, is peanuts in terms of what we get back.  A generational (by pundit prediction) Move TE......whereas if we just stood at 15 we'd probably have to settle for a Corner, A FS, a somewhat redundant WR, or a non elite EDGE.

 

But if Bowers is that good, I would think CHI would want him to pair with Williams at QB.  OTOH, they could get a second tier WR at 15 and maybe another piece at 46, could be what they would be thinking.

Idk worthy has game changing  speed.

[Stephen]

1 minute ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Huh! Flowers is big but did run in the high 4.3's. The rest of our corners are all Wilson's. Big and slow, running in the 4.5's. 

 Ballard has 7 years of proof that he and Dodds live in the past regarding roster building.

 Steichen getting through to them and Ownership is where our hope lies.

Yea that's  why I don't  want Arnold. If we are adding  a cb they need to be sub 4.5 speed. Wiggins  4.2 speed is appealing  along with Mitchell  4.3. Dehean is 4.4, but atleast he can play safety if we don't  want him at corner. 

[throwing BBZ]

13 minutes ago, Stephen said:

If we go cb give me Wiggins,  dejean, or Mitchell.  Arnold is too slow. 

 

 Arnold would be a great "2" corner. I watched a lengthy interview with Arnold and he couldn't be more impressive. 

 Watching his tape he bends, twists, runs with tremendous agility. But he has to grab and live off being physical because he can't run with the big boys. A perfect Chris Ballard guy.

 Sorry but we desperately need a guy that won't get out ran.

[DougDew]

12 minutes ago, w87r said:

Which they could still do at #15.

 

I don't see Ballard giving up #15 and #46 for #9, unless they sent #75 back as well and us giving #117 in return, of something.

 

So: #9, #75 for #15, #46, #117(puts trade within 15pts on the chart)(maybe 2025 5th to get closer?)

 

Or

 

#9 for #15,#82, 2025 3rd(your second option up there, not sure you'd need #151, but whatever if so)

 

 

That 2nd is too valuable this year(we don't need much, but what we can get there we need), to just toss in for a 3rd next year. If you're going to do that, I would just rather then throw in next year's 1st as well, and go get Harrison.

 

 

Anyway it goes Im not really wanting to trade up for Bowers. If he's there cool, but I don't like trading up for him

 

 

 

I'm think I'm almost the opposite of a lot of people right now.

 

I think if there is any year we should trade down, it's this season.

 

We already know he has (20ish players with 1st round grades)(hopefully a few more)

 

So can still get a major contributor while picking up an additional Day 2 pick. Where it just so happens is a pretty strong part.

 

So options:

 

Trade Up:

(2) players in Day 1 and 2(top 100)

(WR+CB?)

(TE+CB?)

Stay Put:

(3) players in Day 1 and 2(top 100)

(WR+CB+OL?)

(Edge+WR+CB?)

Trade Down:

(4) players in Day 1 and 2(top 100)

(WR+CB+OL+S)

(Edge+WR+CB+OL)

 

 

Obviously those positions can go a few other ways, but I just think how the team is assembled right now. Adding (4) more top 100s to fill out these positions is the better route than just (2).

I'd think CHI would want more picks, so I'd be more willing to give the 82, 151, and next year's pick.

 

This is supposedly a down year for draft talent.  I'd gladly discard 3rd round and later picks to get a premium offensive player and maybe Edgerin Cooper with 9 and 46. 

 

I could also see trading down to 22 with Philly and draft Dejean.  We'd get Philly's pick 83 for that move down.  4 picks in the first 83 should help find more explosion for the team. 

[Stephen]

3 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Arnold would be a great "2" corner. I watched a lengthy interview with Arnold and he couldn't be more impressive. 

 Watching his tape he bends, twists, runs with tremendous agility. But he has to grab and live off being physical because he can't run with the big boys. A perfect Chris Ballard guy.

 Sorry but we desperately need a guy that won't get out ran.

I agree that's  why I'm opting for the faster cb. Brents already fills the Arnold role. Last thing we need is a secondary  full of 4.5 guys who will get burned by worthy, thomas jr, tyreek Hill, and tank dell

[richard pallo]

10 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I'd think CHI would want more picks, so I'd be more willing to give the 82, 151, and next year's pick.

 

This is supposedly a down year for draft talent.  I'd gladly discard 3rd round and later picks to get a premium offensive player and maybe Edgerin Cooper with 9 and 46. 

 

I could also see trading down to 22 with Philly and draft Dejean.  We'd get Philly's pick 83 for that move down.  4 picks in the first 83 should help find more explosion for the team. 

I agree.  Keep 1st and 2nd rd picks.  Give them more picks even go to next year if you need to.

[Dobbinblitz]

14 minutes ago, w87r said:

Which they could still do at #15.

 

I don't see Ballard giving up #15 and #46 for #9, unless they sent #75 back as well and us giving #117 in return, of something.

 

So: #9, #75 for #15, #46, #117(puts trade within 15pts on the chart)(maybe 2025 5th to get closer?)

 

Or

 

#9 for #15,#82, 2025 3rd(your second option up there, not sure you'd need #151, but whatever if so)

 

 

That 2nd is too valuable this year(we don't need much, but what we can get there we need), to just toss in for a 3rd next year. If you're going to do that, I would just rather then throw in next year's 1st as well, and go get Harrison.

 

 

Anyway it goes Im not really wanting to trade up for Bowers. If he's there cool, but I don't like trading up for him

 

 

 

I'm think I'm almost the opposite of a lot of people right now.

 

I think if there is any year we should trade down, it's this season.

 

We already know he has (20ish players with 1st round grades)(hopefully a few more)

 

So can still get a major contributor while picking up an additional Day 2 pick. Where it just so happens is a pretty strong part.

 

So options:

 

Trade Up:

(2) players in Day 1 and 2(top 100)

(WR+CB?)

(TE+CB?)

Stay Put:

(3) players in Day 1 and 2(top 100)

(WR+CB+OL?)

(Edge+WR+CB?)

Trade Down:

(4) players in Day 1 and 2(top 100)

(WR+CB+OL+S)

(Edge+WR+CB+OL)

 

 

Obviously those positions can go a few other ways, but I just think how the team is assembled right now. Adding (4) more top 100s to fill out these positions is the better route than just (2).

I agree, I don't want the Colts to give up their 2nd to move up. . IMHO, the Colts should not trade back. Colts will be in a position to draft a difference maker with the early run on QB's. Winning NFL teams create mismatches, and the team is in a unique position, as this year's #15 pick is equivalent to a top 10 pick value wise.

[w87r]

9 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I'd think CHI would want more picks, so I'd be more willing to give the 82, 151, and next year's pick.

 

This is supposedly a down year for draft talent.  I'd gladly discard 3rd round and later picks to get a premium offensive player and maybe Edgerin Cooper with 9 and 46. 

 

I could also see trading down to 22 with Philly and draft Dejean.  We'd get Philly's pick 83 for that move down.  4 picks in the first 83 should help find more explosion for the team. 

Yeah I would throw #151 in as well if required. Wouldn't hold it up.

 

 

I agree would love Cooper, said a couple times I actually feel like that is our actual biggest need.

 

Just need high end competition at the other spots. 

 

Harrison is out best cover LB, that's how down bad we are there.

 

Edge can rush and CB can cover but if LB  can't control the underneath it's all for naught.

 

 

Numerous guys we could trade down 5 or so spots for, guess it just depends on if there is a guy at #15 they have rated a lot higher than the rest.

[richard pallo]

8 minutes ago, Stephen said:

I agree that's  why I'm opting for the faster cb. Brents already fills the Arnold role. Last thing we need is a secondary  full of 4.5 guys who will get burned by worthy, thomas jr, tyreek Hill, and tank dell

If you have a fast good FS that takes care of that concern.  We don’t rely on press man corners to do the job.  Fast zone corners can get it done.  We don’t require elite speed.

[Stephen]

2 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

If you have a fast good FS that takes care of that concern.  We don’t rely on press man corners to do the job.  Fast zone corners can get it done.  We don’t require elite speed.

We don't  have a great fs 

[ADnum1]

1 hour ago, Stephen said:

If we go cb give me Wiggins,  dejean, or Mitchell.  Arnold is too slow.

I wonder if Ballard is thinking of taking Arnold at 15 and converting him to FS

[Superman]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Arnold would be a great "2" corner. I watched a lengthy interview with Arnold and he couldn't be more impressive. 

 Watching his tape he bends, twists, runs with tremendous agility. But he has to grab and live off being physical because he can't run with the big boys. A perfect Chris Ballard guy.

 Sorry but we desperately need a guy that won't get out ran.

 

What do you think about Nate Wiggins?

[MikeCurtis]

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

What do you think about Nate Wiggins?

I will jump in, but IMHO........................Nate Wiggins is a VERY THIN CB

 

If we stay in the Zone world, I am not sure that Wiggins can play the run and tackle the big WRs

 

If we go CB in round 1 (Id rather have a DE/WR)  My choice is DeJean or Mitchell

 

 

 

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, Stephen said:

We don't  have a great fs 

I know but I have a feeling we will soon.

[MikeCurtis]

1 hour ago, Stephen said:

Idk worthy has game changing  speed.

You are right, BUT

 

Worthy will need to block when he is on the field and not getting the ball 

 

At 165Lbs........  How in the world is he going to move anyone

 

I HOPE they DONT go with him

 

John Ross has amazing speed, and until this year was the fastest of all time

 

He was picked 9th......  he didnt work out, even though he was a blazer

 

 

[MikeCurtis]

18 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I know but I have a feeling we will soon.

I hope we use the new "freed up" cap money and sign Simmons

 

We need playmaker FS behind the young CBs that are on the field

[richard pallo]

12 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I hope we use the new "freed up" cap money and sign Simmons

 

We need playmaker FS behind the young CBs that are on the field

I could see that happening.  But my 1st choice is to trade for Budda Baker during the draft.  Trade our 1st and 2nd to move up for Turner then trade our 3rd and whatever for Baker.  That would freak everyone out.  Then use the rest of the draft on OL and depth.
 

[Dobbinblitz]

27 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

You are right, BUT

 

Worthy will need to block when he is on the field and not getting the ball 

 

At 165Lbs........  How in the world is he going to move anyone

 

I HOPE they DONT go with him

 

John Ross has amazing speed, and until this year was the fastest of all time

 

He was picked 9th......  he didnt work out, even though he was a blazer

 

 

Xavier Legette feels more like a Ballard Pick. A late bloomer 6'3" 227 lbs. 4.39 40. Only 2 drops, and makes contested catches - a 9.88 RAS to boot. Someone with tools he can give to Reggie to improve his route running.

[w87r]

1 minute ago, Dobbinblitz said:

Xavier Legette feels more like a Ballard Pick. A late bloomer 6'3" 227 lbs. 4.39 40. Only 2 drops, and makes contested catches - a 9.88 RAS to boot. Someone with tools he can give to Reggie to improve his route running.

Seeing some rumblings that Legette might not make it out of round 1.

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, w87r said:

Seeing some rumblings that Legette might not make it out of round 1.

 

Anything can happen, but I feel like Leggette is a Day 2 guy.

[w87r]

Kinda known this to potentially be the case.

 

So what's it take.

 

#3 - 2200

 

#15 - 1050

#46 - 440

2025 1st - 590pts(value of #32 pick)

 

2080pts

 

Probably need to add 2025 4th(40pts) + 2026 3rd(116pts)

 

 

2236pts pts - 2200pts

 

 

So would anyone do that if it was actually on the table? Not what we think Ballard would do.

 

#3

 

For

 

#15

#46

2025 1st

*2025 4th

*2026 3rd

 

 

*Maybe could trade Pierce or/and a TE in package to maybe save a pick?

 

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Anything can happen, but I feel like Leggette is a Day 2 guy.

Yeah, never can believe anything this time of year.

[Dobbinblitz]

13 minutes ago, w87r said:

Seeing some rumblings that Legette might not make it out of round 1.

Yeah, in some corners Legette is getting Debo Samuel comps (Potential). Certainly some hype around him.

[Superman]

52 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I will jump in, but IMHO........................Nate Wiggins is a VERY THIN CB

 

If we stay in the Zone world, I am not sure that Wiggins can play the run and tackle the big WRs

 

If we go CB in round 1 (Id rather have a DE/WR)  My choice is DeJean or Mitchell

 

 

No doubt he's thin, and not a great tackler. The question is whether his speed and playmaking ability makes up for his deficient size/tackling. If you want a boundary corner who can run stride for stride with big time receivers, he's up there on the list. I don't think I'd draft him in the first round, though.

 

Mitchell is good. I see DeJean as a safety/nickel, not a boundary corner, especially not one who can run with the best receivers.

[cdgacoltsfan]

19 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I could see that happening.  But my 1st choice is to trade for Budda Baker during the draft.  Trade our 1st and 2nd to move up for Turner then trade our 3rd and whatever for Baker.  That would freak everyone out.  Then use the rest of the draft on OL and depth.
 

[Dobbinblitz]

3 minutes ago, w87r said:

Kinda known this to potentially be the case.

 

So what's it take.

 

#3 - 2200

 

#15 - 1050

#46 - 440

2025 1st - 590pts(value of #32 pick)

 

2080pts

 

Probably need to add 2025 4th(40pts) + 2026 3rd(116pts)

 

 

2236pts pts - 2200pts

 

 

So would anyone do that if it was actually on the table? Not what we think Ballard would do.

 

#3

 

For

 

#15

#46

2025 1st

*2025 4th

*2026 3rd

 

 

*Maybe could trade Pierce or/and a TE in package to maybe save a pick?

Would only so something like that to secure my next franchise QB. Beyond that, no.

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, w87r said:

So would anyone do that if it was actually on the table? Not what we think Ballard would do.

 

#3

 

For

 

#15

#46

2025 1st

*2025 4th

*2026 3rd

 

I would not. This isn't even a hard decision for me. I'd only give up that kind of haul for a high level QB prospect that checks all of my boxes.

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, w87r said:

Yeah I would throw #151 in as well if required. Wouldn't hold it up.

 

 

I agree would love Cooper, said a couple times I actually feel like that is our actual biggest need.

 

Just need high end competition at the other spots. 

 

Harrison is out best cover LB, that's how down bad we are there.

 

Edge can rush and CB can cover but if LB  can't control the underneath it's all for naught.

 

 

Numerous guys we could trade down 5 or so spots for, guess it just depends on if there is a guy at #15 they have rated a lot higher than the rest.

I'm thinking that Bowers or DeJean in the 1st (depending upon trade up of down) plus Cooper in the 2nd would be the best picks for intersecting need and value.  JMO.

 

I think the corners, WRs, and edges...(meaning not the top 14 projected players).... just miss the mark when speaking of need, talent, and value....at 15.

[DougDew]

3 minutes ago, Dobbinblitz said:

Would only so something like that to secure my next franchise QB. Beyond that, no.

No extra first round picks for a position player.  Probably not even a 2025 second.

[w87r]

6 minutes ago, Dobbinblitz said:

Would only so something like that to secure my next franchise QB. Beyond that, no.

 

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

I would not. This isn't even a hard decision for me. I'd only give up that kind of haul for a high level QB prospect that checks all of my boxes.

 

I wouldn't either.

 

I do think it would take something along those lines though.

 

 

Let me ask it a different way.

 

 

Would you be upset if we actually pulled this trade off, even though it wasn't something you would of did?

[boo2202]

22 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I could see that happening.  But my 1st choice is to trade for Budda Baker during the draft.  Trade our 1st and 2nd to move up for Turner then trade our 3rd and whatever for Baker.  That would freak everyone out.  Then use the rest of the draft on OL and depth

If we don’t come out of the draft with a decent WR, Ballard deserves to be ran out of town. It’s one of the deepest positions this year. 2024 is an offensive draft, work on the D after we grab our playmaker. 

[Superman]

1 minute ago, w87r said:

 

 

I wouldn't either.

 

I do think it would take something along those lines though.

 

 

Let me ask it a different way.

 

 

Would you be upset if we actually pulled this trade off, even though it isn't something you would of did?

 

I would voice my disagreement clearly, and then hope the player we get turns into a multiple All Pro.

 

I'd rather send those picks to the Vikings for Justin Jefferson, and even then I'd be wincing at the cost. But that's a better way to get your game changing playmaker.

[Dobbinblitz]

4 minutes ago, w87r said:

 

 

I wouldn't either.

 

I do think it would take something along those lines though.

 

 

Let me ask it a different way.

 

 

Would you be upset if we actually pulled this trade off, even though it isn't something you would of did?

Yes, given Ballards method of team building it could really delay progress, unless Ballard decides to dip more than a toe in free agency - which is costly and no guarantee either.

[w87r]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I would voice my disagreement clearly, and then hope the player we get turns into a multiple All Pro.

 

I'd rather send those picks to the Vikings for Justin Jefferson, and even then I'd be wincing at the cost. But that's a better way to get your game changing playmaker.

I agree , although that contract for JJ is going to be serious. I'm only assuming that move would only be for Harrison.

 

So that's the only part that makes it tough.

 

Harrison 4 yrs around $7-$8m per season + 5th year option probably at $30m by then($12m(ish) for 5yrs)

 

Vs

 

Jefferson 5yr $160m deal(guestimate) $32m for 5 seasons

[MikeCurtis]

9 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

No doubt he's thin, and not a great tackler. The question is whether his speed and playmaking ability makes up for his deficient size/tackling. If you want a boundary corner who can run stride for stride with big time receivers, he's up there on the list. I don't think I'd draft him in the first round, though.

 

Mitchell is good. I see DeJean as a safety/nickel, not a boundary corner, especially not one who can run with the best receivers.

Respectfully 

 

I agree on Mitchell

 

But 

 

I believe DeJean is a great candidate for a boundary role in a ZONE that the Colts play the vast Majority of the time

 

He is a great tackler and has good speed

 

He would shine in our zone IMHO

 

 

 

[ADnum1]

9 minutes ago, w87r said:

 

 

I wouldn't either.

 

I do think it would take something along those lines though.

 

 

Let me ask it a different way.

 

 

Would you be upset if we actually pulled this trade off, even though it wasn't something you would of did?

For MHJ ?  I would do it and never look back.

[Superman]

11 minutes ago, w87r said:

I agree , although that contract for JJ is going to be serious. I'm only assuming that move would be for, is Harrison.

 

So that's the only part that makes it tough.

 

Harrison 4 yrs around $7-$8m per season + 5th year option probably at $30m by then($12m(ish) for 5yrs)

 

Vs

 

Jefferson 5yr $160m deal(guestimate) $32m for 5 seasons

 

Not trying to derail your hypothetical, but when healthy, JJ averages 1,600 yards, 8 TDs, 15 yards/catch. MHJ is an unknown. We can project what we think he'll do, but no one is bust-proof. So while I'd cover my eyes and push the button on a big trade for a proven NFL performer, I couldn't bring myself to give up that kind of haul to draft a rookie WR, not knowing how often WRs bust. That includes the difference in player salary.

 

Just sticking to your parameters, I can't do it. We know Ballard would never do it. If Ballard's body was suddenly taken over by an alien being and he made this trade, I'd shake my head at the cost/risk, and root for the player to be a huge success. 

[w87r]

Zach Wilson just got traded to the Broncos probably effects their 1st Rd QB plans