Colts have the 15th pick in the draft. (MERGE)

[2006Coltsbestever]

I made my call to Ballard. I told him we should take a Guard at 15. He asks why, I said just pee everyone off in here. He said well do 2006.   

[Solid84]

3 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

With the DeFo news, I think we can probably assume DT is not an early round option.

I don't think we go DT with DeFo extended, Stewart re-signed and Davis signed. But, I don't think it should be out of the question. Pass rush wins and Stewart isn't a pass rusher and neither is Davis.

 

Also, it might be a good idea to at least start thinking about the future after DeFo. Young Dlinemen usually take a while to get going.

[Stephen]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I made my call to Ballard. I told him we should take a Guard at 15. He asks why, I said just pee everyone off in here. He said well do 2006.   

Imagine  how much the forum  would riot if turner, nabors, and Mitchell  were all there at 15 and we picked a guard lol

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Imagine  how much the forum  would riot if turner, nabors, and Mitchell  were all there at 15 and we picked a guard lol

- this place would be chaos. 

[ADnum1]

15 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Imagine  how much the forum  would riot if turner, nabors, and Mitchell  were all there at 15 and we picked a guard lol

Colts fans if we take a guard at 15

[BlackTiger]

2 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

The more I think about it, he fits what is a bust lol.

Hes not that at all.

 

If you are wanting to replace him with a top tier edge rusher then who is that in this draft class?

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, BlackTiger said:

Hes not that at all.

 

If you are wanting to replace him with a top tier edge rusher then who is that in this draft class?

to be honest, Turner and Verse remind me a little of Paye. Latu is intriguing as he is just a good football player. I am all about going DE and/or corner with the 1st pick. It is all about who is graded higher when you have positions of need. I would put DE, Corner and safety at the top. Corner and DE would be my primary targets entering the draft. I think they have a better chance of getting a higher graded corner with the 15th pick then a DE as they tend to fly off the boards

[throwing BBZ]

4 hours ago, tfunky14 said:

This tells me how much you really know.  Raimann had a very good Rookie year. 

 

 We saw him struggle with power let's saw particularly the first two thirds of the season. If we were to look up the record, Raimann went through the gauntlet over a 6 week or so period going up against the best in the business. Of course they beat him some but he also as was said, had the switch turn on pretty suddenly and then played very well. Ten pounds of added umph and we are now set at LT.

[Blueblood23]

With all the rules favorable for the offense, I would in no way take a corner in the first round.

[w87r]

4 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

With all the rules favorable for the offense, I would in no way take a corner in the first round.

Playing devil's advocate for a moment.

 

 

Wouldn't that make it that much more important, to have top end talent at the position?

 

Not that it's guaranteed to have top end talent with a 1st round CB, or any other position, or round?

 

 

I hear you though, just playing devil's advocate.

[richard pallo]

13 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

With all the rules favorable for the offense, I would in no way take a corner in the first round.

I think it makes sense to draft a corner to try and counteract the trend of opening up the wide receivers more with the rule changes.

[Moosejawcolt]

33 minutes ago, w87r said:

Playing devil's advocate for a moment.

 

 

Wouldn't that make it that much more important, to have top end talent at the position?

 

Not that it's guaranteed to have top end talent with a 1st round CB, or any other position, or round?

 

 

I hear you though, just playing devil's advocate.

If the rules favor the offense, that would make me think the opposite. U should be able to draft lesser offensive players as they should be able to thrive in today's game because of the rules. U need high-end defensive players because of the rule changes and what is expected of them. Could u imagine playing corner now days? 

[w87r]

8 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

If the rules favor the offense, that would make me think the opposite. U should be able to draft lesser offensive players as they should be able to thrive in today's game because of the rules. U need high-end defensive players because of the rule changes and what is expected of them. Could u imagine playing corner now days? 

I think we are on the same side here?

 

 

Yeah it has to suck playing CB, even more so in Gus's scheme. Hopefully he becomes a little less stubborn and becomes a little more unpredictable this season.

[Blueblood23]

49 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

If the rules favor the offense, that would make me think the opposite. U should be able to draft lesser offensive players as they should be able to thrive in today's game because of the rules. U need high-end defensive players because of the rule changes and what is expected of them. Could u imagine playing corner now days? 

I’ll take the other side. Take the best offensive players because you better score on just about every possession. Unless you can get beasts on the defensive line. There’s not many of those to be had.

[Moosejawcolt]

23 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

I’ll take the other side. Take the best offensive players because you better score on just about every possession. Unless you can get beasts on the defensive line. There’s not many of those to be had.

This draft is loaded with wr's. Why would you draft one at 15 when you can probably get a good one with your 2nd pick? You draft a 2nd round corner and there is quite a drop off and you are looking at primarily zone corners. Man corners go fast. Why do you think the Chiefs won the Superbowl. Very good D line with a franchise DT. Franchise Qb, average wr's and elite to very good corner play.

[Moosejawcolt]

26 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

I’ll take the other side. Take the best offensive players because you better score on just about every possession. Unless you can get beasts on the defensive line. There’s not many of those to be had.

If you take your approach, you are right you will have to score on every possession because you have no defense. Welcome to the Manning years and even that offense sputtered in the play offs and everyone expected that under manned D to save the day. No thanks.  I want a balanced team that can play any type of game in any kind of weather

[Superman]

14 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

This draft is loaded with wr's. Why would you draft one at 15 when you can probably get a good one with your 2nd pick? You draft a 2nd round corner and there is quite a drop off and you are looking at primarily zone corners. Man corners go fast. Why do you think the Chiefs won the Superbowl. Very good D line with a franchise DT. Franchise Qb, average wr's and elite to very good corner play.

 

Which is why the Colts draft corners in the second round.

[Blueblood23]

51 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

This draft is loaded with wr's. Why would you draft one at 15 when you can probably get a good one with your 2nd pick? You draft a 2nd round corner and there is quite a drop off and you are looking at primarily zone corners. Man corners go fast. Why do you think the Chiefs won the Superbowl. Very good D line with a franchise DT. Franchise Qb, average wr's and elite to very good corner play.

The rule changes have changed the game and my beliefs as well. I just don’t think a defense has much of a chance anymore. 

[wig]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Which is why the Colts draft corners in the second round.

 

By my count Ballard has taken 6 picks in the top 34 and 1 has been a corner. #34 for both. In the top 50 he's taken 4 DBs / 3 corners. 1 WR in the top 50. Is he against 1st round WRs too?  I don't think he's done anything to show he's against 1st round corners. Or any position. He's never picked the same position twice in the first. The Nelson pick makes me think he doesn't have a ton of positional bias early. 

[wig]

Meant to say he's taken one corner and one WR in the top 34 ^^

[GoColts8818]

I think a lot of what the Colts will do at 15 is going to depend on how the draft falls.  With so many QBs expected to go in the top 15, a WR, CB, edge, or maybe even Bowers is going to slip.  The Colts could use any of those.  The question for Ballard is will it be the one he wants one will multiple be there?  If it’s not the right guy or there are multiple there I’d expect Ballard to move back but odds are there is going to be a guy there Ballard likes and he will take him.  I think that’s much more likely than Ballard deciding now he has to take a WR in round one because it’s a loaded class or the corner spot needs help so he has to take a corner in round one.  He’s going to let the draft and his draft board dictate what he does at 15.

[boo2202]

4 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

This draft is loaded with wr's. Why would you draft one at 15 when you can probably get a good one with your 2nd pick? You draft a 2nd round corner and there is quite a drop off and you are looking at primarily zone corners. Man corners go fast. Why do you think the Chiefs won the Superbowl. Very good D line with a franchise DT. Franchise Qb, average wr's and elite to very good corner play.

I don’t trust Ballard to get a productive WR in the second round. We drafted Paris Campbell over Terry and DK. Some of you still hold out hope for Pierce but that ship has sailed. When’s the last time we spent a first round pick on a skilled offensive position? If Ballard believes AR is our guy and he should considering where we drafted him. Surround him with some skill guys to help. 

[Hoose]

4 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

This draft is loaded with wr's. Why would you draft one at 15 when you can probably get a good one with your 2nd pick? You draft a 2nd round corner and there is quite a drop off and you are looking at primarily zone corners. Man corners go fast. Why do you think the Chiefs won the Superbowl. Very good D line with a franchise DT. Franchise Qb, average wr's and elite to very good corner play.

The Chiefs also had the best TE in the game. That makes up for the avg. WR corps. 

Back to the draft: I don’t disagree with your theory about this being a deep WR draft and a shallow one for D-line. My hope: Latu or Brian Thomas Jr. BTJ may prove to be just as good as the top 3, and is only available BECAUSE this is such a deep WR draft! In a normal year, BTJ goes much higher. And Latu could be the pass rushing demon the Colts lack. His injury history opens the door for a slide to pick 15. Either one of these guys in the first round and I’m thrilled for the Colts. 

[boo2202]

Most teams with a young QB, give them the best chance of succeeding by adding talent around them. You can look at the past Qb’s taken and see this. From Burrow, Tlaw, Herbert, Tua, etc. These teams have added pieces around their QB to help ease the curve. Right now our receiving core consists of Pittman basically and we seen last year what happens if he’s out. You must get talent around the young QB to give him a chance to succeed. Let them grow together. We’re not making the SB next year anyway. 

[Superman]

3 hours ago, wig said:

 

By my count Ballard has taken 6 picks in the top 34 and 1 has been a corner. #34 for both. In the top 50 he's taken 4 DBs / 3 corners. 1 WR in the top 50. Is he against 1st round WRs too?  I don't think he's done anything to show he's against 1st round corners. Or any position. He's never picked the same position twice in the first. The Nelson pick makes me think he doesn't have a ton of positional bias early. 

 

To the bolded, yeah, probably. That's my opinion, it's probably biased by my own thinking on the value of the WR position and how good players can be acquired and developed, but I think there's something to it. I also think there's something to Ballard's insistence since 2017 that he values OL/DL, he values trading back, and he thinks there are good players throughout the draft.

 

I also think going back to the Polian/Dungy days, there's been a team building philosophy -- not specific to the Colts, but definitely something the Colts adhered to back then and have returned to since 2018 -- that emphasizes zone based corners. And part of the reason for that is because zone corners are less expensive and easier to draft. I think the draft value for zone based corner prospects tends to be Day 2 and beyond, which influences Ballard's draft decisions, and speaks to why he's drafted three corners in the second round. And that's directly to the point I was making in the post you quote -- zone based corners are typically found beyond the first round, the Colts run a zone based defense, and I think they probably won't draft a corner on Day 1.

 

Meanwhile, he's made four first round picks: two trench players, one QB, and one safety. Some might say the safety is an outlier -- it was his first year, still with a different defensive philosophy. That might be true, but I think safety is considered more important in this defense than corner. 

 

I'm not necessarily advocating for this approach. I would love a WR at #15, depending on who it is. I just don't expect it.

[throwing BBZ]

13 hours ago, w87r said:

I think we are on the same side here?

 

 

Yeah it has to suck playing CB, even more so in Gus's scheme. Hopefully he becomes a little less stubborn and becomes a little more unpredictable this season.

 

 If one were to understand that all teams defend with zones in very similar ways, and know that Gus plays man about 30% of the time which is just on the lower side of middle of the pack, so what then is the issue with "Gus".

 Ballard/Dodds!

 We ARE near the bottom in speed, intellect, experience, Talent, with Gus's back seven. Gus is forced to play soft with dem bums. 

 Ballard/Dodds have killed us with their many misses drafting DE's, Rock-Ya.

  This draft, this 53 man + roster should be pivotal, heavily scrutinized by Ownership.

[Moosejawcolt]

10 hours ago, boo2202 said:

I don’t trust Ballard to get a productive WR in the second round. We drafted Paris Campbell over Terry and DK. Some of you still hold out hope for Pierce but that ship has sailed. When’s the last time we spent a first round pick on a skilled offensive position? If Ballard believes AR is our guy and he should considering where we drafted him. Surround him with some skill guys to help. 

I don't disagree with u about surrounding him talent. My argument that there is far more talent on the offensive side of the ball then the defense when u consider the lines and skill positions. 

[Moosejawcolt]

14 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Which is why the Colts draft corners in the second round.

Agree. I just hope they change that as it will signal to me a slight change in philosophy when it comes the defensive scheme. 

[cdgacoltsfan]

2 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 If one were to understand that all teams defend with zones in very similar ways, and know that Gus plays man about 30% of the time which is just on the lower side of middle of the pack, so what then is the issue with "Gus".

 Ballard/Dodds!

 We ARE near the bottom in speed, intellect, experience, Talent, with Gus's back seven. Gus is forced to play soft with dem bums. 

 Ballard/Dodds have killed us with their many misses drafting DE's, Rock-Ya.

  This draft, this 53 man + roster should be pivotal, heavily scrutinized by Ownership.

[Stephen]

33 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I don't disagree with u about surrounding him talent. My argument that there is far more talent on the offensive side of the ball then the defense when u consider the lines and skill positions. 

It is about who will have a greater impact. Cj stroud is surrounded by more talent on offense  than Richardson  currently. We need to close the gap. Zone corners will be there in the second.  If we go wr in the second  all the best ones will be gone and we may be stuck with another Alec pierce 

[richard pallo]

10 hours ago, boo2202 said:

Most teams with a young QB, give them the best chance of succeeding by adding talent around them. You can look at the past Qb’s taken and see this. From Burrow, Tlaw, Herbert, Tua, etc. These teams have added pieces around their QB to help ease the curve. Right now our receiving core consists of Pittman basically and we seen last year what happens if he’s out. You must get talent around the young QB to give him a chance to succeed. Let them grow together. We’re not making the SB next year anyway. 

Very true.  Josh Allen is another one.  The Bills traded for Diggs to help him out and they took off.  Now he’s gone.  I expect the Bills to do something big again to help him out.  Once you get your quarterback the next step is making sure he has the weapons around him.  Right now AR has some real quality weapons.  Getting him another one could really set the team up for a nice run.

[Stephen]

43 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I don't disagree with u about surrounding him talent. My argument that there is far more talent on the offensive side of the ball then the defense when u consider the lines and skill positions. 

Also the reason  you go wr is to make sure you have the right  qb. If he stinks with an star cast of offensive  weapons  then you know you need another qb

[throwing BBZ]

3 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Also the reason  you go wr is to make sure you have the right  qb. If he stinks with an star cast of offensive  weapons  then you know you need another qb

 

 AR proved in his first game that he is going to be very good. 

[Moosejawcolt]

10 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Also the reason  you go wr is to make sure you have the right  qb. If he stinks with an star cast of offensive  weapons  then you know you need another qb

Franchise qbs make those around him better

[Moosejawcolt]

20 minutes ago, Stephen said:

It is about who will have a greater impact. Cj stroud is surrounded by more talent on offense  than Richardson  currently. We need to close the gap. Zone corners will be there in the second.  If we go wr in the second  all the best ones will be gone and we may be stuck with another Alec pierce 

Houston went number 2 last year and traded up to 3 to get their franchise rush end . They didn't trade up to get Stroud a weapon. They traded because they wanted to become a complete team. Houston runs a defence similar to Indy. They know u need to have that front 4 to make Ryans defence successful. 

[Stephen]

50 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Houston went number 2 last year and traded up to 3 to get their franchise rush end . They didn't trade up to get Stroud a weapon. They traded because they wanted to become a complete team. Houston runs a defence similar to Indy. They know u need to have that front 4 to make Ryans defence successful. 

They were active in free agency  and the draft to add weapons for stroud.

[richard pallo]

Just read where Eliot Wolf who is in charge of the Patriots draft confirmed this morning they are involved in trade talks for the 3rd overall pick.   The Colts pick 15 and the Raiders pick 13 is worth 100 pts more than pick 3 on the draft picks chart.  The new coach of the Raiders wants to move up for a quarterback.  Just saying there is a way if they want to get the Colts involved.  Of course maybe the don’t want to.

[Moosejawcolt]

17 minutes ago, Stephen said:

They were active in free agency  and the draft to add weapons for stroud.

Exactly, but u can not find a franchise Dend or corner in free agency. U have to draft one. U can sprinkle in wr talent. That is my belief. 

[boo2202]

2 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I don't disagree with u about surrounding him talent. My argument that there is far more talent on the offensive side of the ball then the defense when u consider the lines and skill positions. 

Agree with this as well. The worst part is going into the draft with soooo many positions that could stand an upgrade. The main reason I didn’t understand ballard’s FA approach. I miss the times when the roster was solid and we could afford luxury picks. It’s seems like it’s been the same the past 10 years. We go into the draft having to pick a certain position or position’s because of the lack of talent on the roster. All the talk of bowers falling to 10 and not being able to draft him because we have 5 other bigger needs sucks. I place that on Ballard. 

[Dingus McGirt]

Listened to the mock draft on “Locked on Colts” - Brian Thomas Jr. was the Colts selection in Round One.  Good choice, I think given how the picks in front went.  Colts want to be more explosive - he is that.  JMO