Colts vs Texans post game

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, ChuggaBeer said:

Bull Crap.    If they would have handed to Taylor and he didn't get it people wouldnt have "Lived with it".  They'd just be *ing in another direction 

Taylor had almost 200 yards. It also didn’t have to be Taylor. Could have been an entirely different player and play. If your best play in that situation is putting it in the hands of your 3rd string RB you have a play calling problem.

[JediXMan]

Side note Jags are down 21-10 making last night loss sting much more ugh.

[bluebombers87]

Just now, Superman said:

 

Watched Warner's video. There's some good stuff there, and it's possible that Goodson's route wasn't perfect. But we don't know how the Colts coach that route.

 

What is undeniable is that Minshew's feet are wrong, he's closed off to the left side, and has to fight across his shoulder to throw the pass. He is not under pressure. He could have opened up to the left with his last step, and made a better throw. Instead he rushes it and throws a pass that was not as catchable as it could have been, even if Goodson's route wasn't great.

By design it’s a quick throw. He put the ball so as not to lead Goodson right into the bodies of Pitt and a defender(potentially a second defender as well if they reacted quick enough).

 

The ball hit Goodson in the hands. Could the throw have been better? Absolutely but so can tons of other throws. Warner explains why the ball was put where it was and the logic holds up.

[Zoltan]

7 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Players are rated and playing according to their performance.  Teams have 1st string 2nd string 3rd string players rated for a reason.  3rd string players shouldn’t see the field when the players ahead of them are healthy and available.  Especially in a game deciding play.  I would guess they couldn’t believe their eyes when they didn’t see Taylor or Moss out there.  Mind blowing.

you're too focused on the depth chart, instead of what the players role in the offense is. Moss isn't better at catching the ball then goodson even though he is 2nd in the depth chart. Goodson's role is as pass catching back, you combine the with Taylor's ankle was clearly not right, and that in practice Goodson was the one in. He was the right player for that play. if the ball was thrown not back-shoulder, it could have been a big play.

[#12.]

16 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Yep Ryan’s had the same opportunity and he decided to punt and use field position.

 

Steichen kicking the 57 yarder reminded me of Dan Campbell going for the 2 after the penalty in Dallas.  We thought we won, I'm frustrated, so I'll just go for it from the 7 anyway.  

 

Steichen got to the 40, thought we were going to take the lead, but the Colts got no further.  He was frustrated and just kicked it anyway.   It wasn’t the smart thing to do.

 

After that, we were playing catch up the rest of the way.  It could have been the opposite.

[Zoltan]

5 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Taylor had almost 200 yards. It also didn’t have to be Taylor. Could have been an entirely different player and play. If your best play in that situation is putting it in the hands of your 3rd string RB you have a play calling problem.

 no y'all just have a hindsight problem

[dw49]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I understand that viewpoint, trust me. I get it, it's a valid consideration. I don't have a problem with anyone saying they wish Taylor had been out there instead. I just think it's unreasonable to act like this was malpractice. 

 

Goodson is a pro football RB. He's more than capable of catching a pass when he's wide open. And the play call schemed him wide open for a first down.

 

Also, I think the bigger problem is the pass. 

 

I guess after this discussion , NFL coaches might consider ditching that tackle eligible play ? If OL , sometimes back-ups , are trusted to catch short passes in game defining moments , why is it absurd to trust a back up RB ? 

[AKB]

People are still arguing over this? Not sure why. Maybe to put some blame on the coach? 

 

The reality is that a backup QB threw a bad pass to a running back with only 6 catches on the year. 

 

If you wanna blame anyone for goodson being in the game it should be Ballard. If you wanna blame someone for minshew inaccurate pass you blame minshew. 

 

But to blame our coach of the year candidate for calling a pass to a wide open running back is mind boggling. 

 

What coach would you rather have? This is silly. We over achieved and came up short one play. Welcome to football. 

[Architects08]

I’m so glad we won 9 games and missed the playoffs. This outcome is so much better than embracing the tank and getting a better draft pick. Thank goodness we got to evaluate Minshew and the other rookies! 

[AKB]

Just now, Architects08 said:

I’m so glad we won 9 games and missed the playoffs. This outcome is so much better than embracing the tank and getting a better draft pick. Thank goodness we got to evaluate Minshew and the other rookies! 

It's this exact mindset that is counterintuitive to being a fan. I watch the colts to see them win as many games as possible not to see them tank Everytime a fan like you thinks we should. 

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

By design it’s a quick throw. He put the ball so as not to lead Goodson right into the bodies of Pitt and a defender(potentially a second defender as well if they reacted quick enough).

 

The ball hit Goodson in the hands. Could the throw have been better? Absolutely but so can tons of other throws. Warner explains why the ball was put where it was and the logic holds up.

 

Don't you think it's speculative to say that Goodson didn't run the route properly? We don't know how the play is coached.

 

By contrast, I don't think it's speculative to say that Minshew's footwork was wrong. We know the fundamentals of QB mechanics, and when you're closed off on the left side, you're undermining your power and accuracy on a throw to the left. Yes, it's a quick throw, but that's why your mechanics have to be on point.

 

Agreed that Goodson should have caught it, as is. 

[GoColts8818]

2 minutes ago, AKB said:

People are still arguing over this? Not sure why. Maybe to put some blame on the coach? 

 

The reality is that a backup QB threw a bad pass to a running back with only 6 catches on the year. 

 

If you wanna blame anyone for goodson being in the game it should be Ballard. If you wanna blame someone for minshew inaccurate pass you blame minshew. 

 

But to blame our coach of the year candidate for calling a pass to a wide open running back is mind boggling. 

 

What coach would you rather have? This is silly. We over achieved and came up short one play. Welcome to football. 

Ballard didn’t put Goodson in the game there Shane did.

 

I agree it doesn’t make Shane a bad catch but just because he’s done a good job doesn’t make him immune from criticism when he makes a mistake.  

 

 

[IinD]

1 minute ago, AKB said:

People are still arguing over this? Not sure why. Maybe to put some blame on the coach? 

 

The reality is that a backup QB threw a bad pass to a running back with only 6 catches on the year. 

 

If you wanna blame anyone for goodson being in the game it should be Ballard. If you wanna blame someone for minshew inaccurate pass you blame minshew. 

 

But to blame our coach of the year candidate for calling a pass to a wide open running back is mind boggling. 

 

What coach would you rather have? This is silly. We over achieved and came up short one play. Welcome to football. 

Everyone wants to be the smartest person in the room after a loss, you know how it goes.

[husker61]

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Watched Warner's video. There's some good stuff there, and it's possible that Goodson's route wasn't perfect. But we don't know how the Colts coach that route.

 

What is undeniable is that Minshew's feet are wrong, he's closed off to the left side, and has to fight across his shoulder to throw the pass. He is not under pressure. He could have opened up to the left with his last step, and made a better throw. Instead he rushes it and throws a pass that was not as catchable as it could have been, even if Goodson's route wasn't great.

he said they ran the play this way, who cares! The colts ran a play that was open, with a very easy throw to make, and the throw was awful. I bet Kurt makes that throw every time weather the receiver runs the right rout or not. It was a short easy throw! 

[AKB]

1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

Ballard didn’t put Goodson in the game there.

Yeah he did. 

Taylor injured and moss ain't no better at catching the ball. 

 

So he did put him in. It's the roster he constructed. Ballard put every player in, and if you can't stretch your eyelids open a little further to see that then I'm not interested in the debate 

[John Hammonds]

1 hour ago, Boondoggle said:

Failure is a group lift in this game.  There is sufficient blame to go around.  No need to focus in on one bad guy here.

 

Did Steichen have a better option there at RB.  Couldn't Minshew have just put the ball on the back.  Couldn't the back just run that route better or make the catch.

 

Goodson probably blames himself.  But I'm sure Minshew blames himself too.  And Steichen probably questions himself with who was in the backfield for a play of that magnitude.  They're all gonna have to carry this one though.

Absolutely.  There were plenty of failures to go around.

All of us are talking about the very last play.  And some are mentioning our dismal 3rd down performance.

But what gets lost in the discussion is that both of the Texans' touchdowns came on plays where our safeties made a bad coverage mistake.  On the first touchdown, Nick Cross bites on the shallow crossing route when he, as a single high safety, is supposed to keep the entire field in front of him.  He forgot he was playing free safety, and acted like a strong safety.  On the second touchdown, Rodney Thomas jumped out to cover the flat, which was already being covered, and left the middle wide open.

[Architects08]

Just now, AKB said:

It's this exact mindset that is counterintuitive to being a fan. I watch the colts to see them win as many games as possible not to see them tank Everytime a fan like you thinks we should. 

So wanting what’s best for the team long term is not being a fan? Understood. 🙄

[Hoose]

20 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

Kurt Warner had a really good breakdown of that play. Basically he said Goodson should have ran more towards the sideline in an arcing route but instead ran more upfield. Minshew threw the ball where he did to keep it away from defenders (meaning he didn’t lead him on Goodsons route). 

And a flatter route would have allowed the pass rusher to swat the ball down. The throw was nearly knocked down as it was. 

Here’s the real problem: In the end, you put an inexperienced, PS level player in position to decide the season. That just makes no sense to me. Maybe on 2nd or 3rd down but not in that situation. Instead you need to have your best talent in there and allow one of them to get their hands on the ball. Steichen made a huge error in judgment on that play IMO. 

[AKB]

Just now, Architects08 said:

So wanting what’s best for the team long term is not being a fan? Understood. 🙄

What's best for the team is losing on purpose? 

 

You and I will never agree on that sir. 

[husker61]

8 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

you're too focused on the depth chart, instead of what the players role in the offense is. Moss isn't better at catching the ball then goodson even though he is 2nd in the depth chart. Goodson's role is as pass catching back, you combine the with Taylor's ankle was clearly not right, and that in practice Goodson was the one in. He was the right player for that play. if the ball was thrown not back-shoulder, it could have been a big play.

yes, and you throw back shoulder to receivers when they are covered and they are ready or it. You don’t do that with a wide open back 10 yards away, you led him with the pass!

[GoColts8818]

3 minutes ago, AKB said:

Yeah he did. 

Taylor injured and moss ain't no better at catching the ball. 

 

So he did put him in. It's the roster he constructed. Ballard put every player in, and if you can't stretch your eyelids open a little further to see that then I'm not interested in the debate 

Taylor was literally on the field the play before and who they used to get down the field with the injury and Shane said after the game Taylor was fine.  So the Taylor was hurt stuff is just attempt to shift the blame.  Shane made the call to take Taylor out put Goodson in because he felt Goodson was the best option for the play because he was the pass catching back (which I disagree with idea that a guy with six career catches is now your pass catching back) and said so last night.  As someone else said stop trying warp reality.

[ADnum1]

 

[bluebombers87]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Don't you think it's speculative to say that Goodson didn't run the route properly? We don't know how the play is coached.

 

By contrast, I don't think it's speculative to say that Minshew's footwork was wrong. We know the fundamentals of QB mechanics, and when you're closed off on the left side, you're undermining your power and accuracy on a throw to the left. Yes, it's a quick throw, but that's why your mechanics have to be on point.

 

Agreed that Goodson should have caught it, as is. 

Not speculating on whether he ran the wrong route but rather showing why Minshew put the ball where he did. Pitt had two defenders on him and they were two steps away from Goodson. Had Minshew led him on his trajectory it could’ve ended poorly. 
 

How likely that scenario would’ve been, who knows. But we do know Minshew has turned it over often enough for that to at least be a possibility.

 

Now the pass itself needed more velocity and I think you have a point with his feet. More velocity would’ve put the ball higher or closer to Goodson which is better than trying to pluck it out of the air.

5 minutes ago, husker61 said:

he said they ran the play this way, who cares! The colts ran a play that was open, with a very easy throw to make, and the throw was awful. I bet Kurt makes that throw every time weather the receiver runs the right rout or not. It was a short easy throw! 

So you didn’t watch the video. 

[bluebombers87]

3 minutes ago, husker61 said:

yes, and you throw back shoulder to receivers when they are covered and they are ready or it. You don’t do that with a wide open back 10 yards away, you led him with the pass!

And right into two defenders? 

[ChuggaBeer]

18 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Taylor had almost 200 yards. It also didn’t have to be Taylor. Could have been an entirely different player and play. If your best play in that situation is putting it in the hands of your 3rd string RB you have a play calling problem.

Chloe.   Of all people on here if they would have ran Taylor and was stopped. YOU would have been on here complaining that Steichen wasn't creative and doing the same thing Frank did and be doubting his abilities and wanting someone more creative with swag blah blah blah 

 

The play was a great call.    9 times out of 10 they complete that pass.    Just a bad pass by Minshew.     It is what

it is 

[Zoltan]

5 minutes ago, Hoose said:

And a flatter route would have allowed the pass rusher to swat the ball down. The throw was nearly knocked down as it was. 

Here’s the real problem: In the end, you put an inexperienced, PS level player in position to decide the season. That just makes no sense to me. Maybe on 2nd or 3rd down but not in that situation. Instead you need to have your best talent in there and allow one of them to get their hands on the ball. Steichen made a huge error in judgment on that play IMO. 

Who do you want in? Taylor bad ankle and less likely to catch it because the ball was behind the RB and rotating on a bad ankle would make the catch more difficult. Moss is not a good pass catcher, any WR would give the play away.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, ChuggaBeer said:

Chloe.   Of all people on here if they would have ran Taylor and was stopped. YOU would have been on here complaining that Steichen wasn't creative and doing the same thing Frank did and be doubting his abilities and wanting someone more creative with swag blah blah blah 

 

The play was a great call.    9 times out of 10 they complete that pass.    Just a bad pass by Minshew.     It is what

it is 

I never said to run Taylor. You had a host of other players like Pittman, downs, moss. Your best plays in that situation is using your best players. Great call does not mean it was to the right player.

[MikChiken]

Just now, Zoltan said:

Who do you want in? Taylor bad ankle and less likely to catch it because the ball was behind the RB and rotating on a bad ankle would make the catch more difficult. Moss is not a good pass catcher, any WR would give the play away.

I feel like we’ve seen Taylor miss plenty of those passes regardless. Shane called a good play, the players on the team didn’t execute. It stings but in hindsight we’re in the teens now for a pick instead of 20s, I doubt we would’ve made much noise in anyways. On to the offseason

[ChuggaBeer]

Just now, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I never said to run Taylor. You had a host of other players like Pittman, downs, moss. Your best plays in that situation is using your best players. Great call does not mean it was to the right player.

Do you not think the Texans weren't keying on those guys???????  

 

Like I said.  I would bet that 9 out of 10 times that's a catch 

[GoColts8818]

3 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

Who do you want in? Taylor bad ankle and less likely to catch it because the ball was behind the RB and rotating on a bad ankle would make the catch more difficult. Moss is not a good pass catcher, any WR would give the play away.

They could have always had Downs do his come back to the running back and rotate back out bit he does and been in that spot.  As for Taylor maybe not maybe so, we will never know.  There is also the option you didn’t have to call that play.  It doesn’t mean it was a bad play design but I am also sure it wasn’t the only option in that situation and probably one that was better than depending on a guy who had six career catches and had very limited action in the game and a back up QB executing it no matter how good of a design the play was.

[Zoltan]

8 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

Not speculating on whether he ran the wrong route but rather showing why Minshew put the ball where he did. Pitt had two defenders on him and they were two steps away from Goodson. Had Minshew led him on his trajectory it could’ve ended poorly. 
 

How likely that scenario would’ve been, who knows. But we do know Minshew has turned it over often enough for that to at least be a possibility.

 

Now the pass itself needed more velocity and I think you have a point with his feet. More velocity would’ve put the ball higher or closer to Goodson which is better than trying to pluck it out of the air.

So you didn’t watch the video. 

 

Did you see how much space there was? The ball just had to be placed two feet to the right, the defenders were no where near him....

[bluephantom87]

3 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Taylor had almost 200 yards. It also didn’t have to be Taylor. Could have been an entirely different player and play. If your best play in that situation is putting it in the hands of your 3rd string RB you have a play calling problem.

 

How many times did Reich put it in JT's hands with the game on the line ONLY to get stuffed? 3rd and two or 4th and one with that same old run up the middle crap over and over against a stacked box? We constantly complained and sometimes it would even be Hines put in that position. Teams KEY on your best players in that situation ESPECIALLY with a rb!! Beautiful play designs have been refreshing this year.

 

Shane has been pulling the okey doke ALL season long and it got us to this point so I'm not whining about a WIDE OPEN back that dropped a suspect pass from an erratic backup qb who Shane has ridden the WHOLE year. Like Shane said he has confidence in all his NFL roster players to make a play when called upon and the MORE I watch analysts speak upon the nasty unsuspected play call that caught the Texans off guard the more I can't wait to see Shane with some more EXPLOSIVE talent. 

[husker61]

9 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

 

So you didn’t watch the video. 

yes I did, and he said when he played they ran it a different way. Who cares! The play was open and the throw should have been made.

[bluebombers87]

3 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

 

Did you see how much space there was? The ball just had to be placed two feet to the right, the defenders were no where near him....

Less than two steps. Leading him would have put Goodson on a collision course with the free defender. Pitt had one engaged.

[husker61]

10 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

And right into two defenders? 

the defenders were 5 yards away and it was a short pass!

[bluebombers87]

1 minute ago, husker61 said:

yes I did, and he said when he played they ran it a different way. Who cares! The play was open and the throw should have been made.

Then you missed the point. Warner said Minshew out the ball where he did so as leading him would’ve put him in the path of two defenders.

[DougDew]

51 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Players are rated and playing according to their performance.  Teams have 1st string 2nd string 3rd string players rated for a reason.  3rd string players shouldn’t see the field when the players ahead of them are healthy and available.  Especially in a game deciding play.  I would guess they couldn’t believe their eyes when they didn’t see Taylor or Moss out there.  Mind blowing.

Um.  If you've watched the NFL more than one season,, teams typically have Power Backs and Third Down backs for situations.  Almost by absolute definition, third down backs are not 1st stringers.  And in our situation, it seems that our 2nd stringer gives our first stringer a breather but they run the same plays.

 

Steichen put in our third down back because our third stringer was probably the best RB for that play, because he probably has the best hands over our two power backs.   

 

Why is that dumb?

 

[Zoltan]

3 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

They could have always had Downs do his come back to the running back and rotate back out bit he does and been in that spot.  As for Taylor maybe not maybe so, we will never know.  There is also the option you didn’t have to call that play.  It doesn’t mean it was a bad play design but I am also sure it wasn’t the only option in that situation and probably one that was better than depending on a guy who had six career catches and had very limited action in the game and a back up QB executing it no matter how good of a design the play was.

If you have Downs in you have a CB not a LB in coverage and they would have followed him to that side of the field and the pick doesn't because the CB would have a good angle to attack. If you have Downs at the RB position, the defense would audible out of the run blitz call and know it will be a pass. It was the right call, just got unlucky

[Zoltan]

4 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

Less than two steps. Leading him would have put Goodson on a collision course with the free defender. Pitt had one engaged.

There's definitely 4 yards

[GoColts8818]

Just now, Zoltan said:

If you have Downs in you have a CB not a LB in coverage and they would have followed him to that side of the field and the pick doesn't because the CB would have a good angle to attack. If you have Downs at the RB position, the defense would audible out of the run blitz call and know it will be a pass. It was the right call, just got unlucky

Which they did when they took Taylor out and put Goodson in there.  Everyone knew Goodson wasn’t getting a handoff there which you can tell by the way the Texans played it. They played it for a pass to Pittman.  If nothing else Taylor on the field probably makes the defense stack the deck for him and opens up someone else.  Again, there were other options.  The play design was solid no one has argued that.  What people don’t like was the personal usage because putting the season in the hands of your back up QB and practice squad level RB with six career catches is a recipe for disaster and we saw the disaster in terms of how they didn’t execute it.