The refs and Adam archuleta (MERGE)

[Superman]

1 minute ago, bluebombers87 said:

Going into the actual rule book it does state it does not apply to receivers going downfield. It wasn’t in the actual link as they said it was but it was in the rule.

 

Regardless, it does prove that the on field team gets assistance from upstairs/NY which was the point of contention.

 

Link? Quote? I don't see that in the rule book.

 

And I found this which probably explains why the flag was picked up. The blocker engaged a defender at the LOS, so can legally block while moving more than one yard past the LOS.

Quote

 

Item 1. Legally Downfield. An ineligible player is not illegally downfield if, after initiating contact with an opponent within one yard of the line of scrimmage during his initial charge:

he moves more than one yard beyond the line while legally blocking or being blocked by an opponent

after breaking legal contact with an opponent more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage, he remains stationary until a forward pass is thrown

after losing legal contact with an opponent more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage, he is forced behind the line of scrimmage by an opponent, at which time he is again subject to normal blocking restrictions for an ineligible offensive player.

 

 

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Go to section 4.  Non reviewable plays

 

Found it, you're right.

Quote

 

SECTION 4 - NON-REVIEWABLE PLAYS

The following aspects of plays are not reviewable:

Whether an erroneous whistle sounded;

Whether a ball was illegally batted or kicked;

Whether a passer intentionally grounded a pass;

Whether an ineligible receiver was downfield before a pass;

Whether a receiver was illegally contacted;

The spot of a loose ball crossing the sideline;

Whether a block was illegal; and

Any aspect of a play not listed as reviewable in Section 3 of this Rule.

 

 

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Link? Quote? I don't see that in the rule book.

 

And I found this which probably explains why the flag was picked up. The blocker engaged a defender at the LOS, so can legally block while moving more than one yard past the LOS.

 

 

Just now, Superman said:

 

Found it, you're right.

 

Seems like some odd things to not be allowed to review when video could show clear and obvious.   

[bluebombers87]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I understand the frustration, and I share it. I think the refs made a bad call, and it cost us the game. And I think HQ should have overruled it. I would not be surprised if we get something from the NFL saying this was a mistake.

 

But I also think the frustration can be blinding. Baker committed PI. If the throw is better, we have nothing to complain about. If they call defensive holding, we have nothing to complain about. If Baker isn't getting cooked by Amari Cooper, we have nothing to complain about.

Absolutely Baker needs to be better and held accountable. But so do the refs. There is zero recourse outside of game assignments for the refs. The Ref Union needs to be brought to some level of accountability otherwise fans will leave.
 

Especially in todays NFL with gambling, these part time refs need to be beyond reproach to the fans (or at least the majority of them). 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

The amazing thing was the second penalty that went in the stands how they had a conference and still didn’t rule it uncatchable. That second penalty should be the kind that a sky judge can call and overturn.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

 

Seems like some odd things to not be allowed to review when video could show clear and obvious.   

 

Some judgment stuff they don't want subject to review, like PI. And I don't agree with that, either. I don't really understand the logic of the ineligible downfield rule, though. Maybe there's a scenario which makes it difficult to officiate, or maybe they just don't want a strict, petty enforcement of that rule.

 

As it turns out, the ineligible penalty yesterday probably should have been picked up, based on the reading of the rule.

[bluebombers87]

Just now, Superman said:

 

Some judgment stuff they don't want subject to review, like PI. And I don't agree with that, either. I don't really understand the logic of the ineligible downfield rule, though. Maybe there's a scenario which makes it difficult to officiate, or maybe they just don't want a strict, petty enforcement of that rule.

 

As it turns out, the ineligible penalty yesterday probably should have been picked up, based on the reading of the rule.

It was in fact the right call picking up the flag. Which to me indicates they had help from upstairs. Otherwise they utilized some sort of replay which didn’t seem like they went off field or took long enough for that to happen.
 

The only other alternative is they threw the flag and announced the penalty without conferring with eachother.

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

Absolutely Baker needs to be better and held accountable. But so do the refs. There is zero recourse outside of game assignments for the refs. The Ref Union needs to be brought to some level of accountability otherwise fans will leave.
 

Especially in todays NFL with gambling, these part time refs need to be beyond reproach to the fans (or at least the majority of them). 

 

No disagreement with any of this. I think the refs need to be better. Even when they aren't making mistakes, the prolonged discussions and lack of transparency when making calls is problematic, and frustrating. If they're going to overturn a call or pick up a flag, they should explain it on the mic, Ed Hochuli style.

 

But the NBA has the last two minutes report, intended to explain controversial calls at the end of games, and even at times confirm what everyone thinks they saw. And the fans still hate it. Short of public firing squad, there's probably no satisfying people who think the refs cost their team a game.

[jvan1973]

Just now, Superman said:

 

No disagreement with any of this. I think the refs need to be better. Even when they aren't making mistakes, the prolonged discussions and lack of transparency when making calls is problematic, and frustrating. If they're going to overturn a call or pick up a flag, they should explain it on the mic, Ed Hochuli style.

 

But the NBA has the last two minutes report, intended to explain controversial calls at the end of games, and even at times confirm what everyone thinks they saw. And the fans still hate it. Short of public firing squad, there's probably no satisfying people who think the refs cost their team a game.

I vote for the firing squad 

[bluebombers87]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

No disagreement with any of this. I think the refs need to be better. Even when they aren't making mistakes, the prolonged discussions and lack of transparency when making calls is problematic, and frustrating. If they're going to overturn a call or pick up a flag, they should explain it on the mic, Ed Hochuli style.

 

But the NBA has the last two minutes report, intended to explain controversial calls at the end of games, and even at times confirm what everyone thinks they saw. And the fans still hate it. Short of public firing squad, there's probably no satisfying people who think the refs cost their team a game.

Then the next logical course of action is to minimize the penalties. Get rid of automatic first down calls in favor of yardage + replay king of down. Cap PI to 15 (like college). I’m sure there are tons of unforeseen consequences with something like that but if the Ref Union won’t play ball, and transparency isn’t enough, then minimize the refs impact to the game.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I do like Steichen not making excuses here. He is right.

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Kind of funny this was Minshew and not Richardson. He will get this next year though.

 

 

[John Waylon]

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Unless they're going to have a full staff reviewing every play in real time, and stopping the game frequently, I don't think that's a viable option. And I think it would make some games unwatchable. 

 

And I think the PI was not overturned because the NFL standard for "uncatchable" is kind of blatant, even if it's not spelled out in the rule. I think it's obvious that the pass wasn't catchable, and the flag should have been picked up. But I've seen similar plays get flagged on passes that I think are obviously uncatchable.

 

The bigger question I have is whether the hold was close enough to the throw, that they could have just called defensive holding anyway. It's only five yards, instead of putting the ball at the 1, but it still would have sucked, and probably would have cost us the game. I think Darrell Baker committed PI, and if the only thing that would have bailed him out is an interpretation of whether the ball was catchable or not, then it's hard for me to stir up too much outrage. If the throw is 3 feet shorter, we're not really talking about this. Bad call for sure, the refs need to be better, but Baker obviously grabbed the guy.

 

And we put a bunch of young, untested corners on the field this year, knowing there would be growing pains. These are the growing pains.

We don’t need micromanaging every single play. 
 

The best start would be to confirm flags. We confirm turnovers and touchdowns in a matter of seconds and it hasn’t added untold eons to game times the way everyone ballyhooed it would. In fact, aren’t games today going by faster than they did versus 10 years ago? It seems like I’ve seen something in the last 2-3 years about how the length of games has come down. 
 

Regardless, I’m not afraid to add as much as 10-15 minutes to a game to verify calls made on the field. 
 

Missed calls are an entirely different animal. There should be someone communicating to the officials on the field “player X was holding on that last play and we missed it, let’s try to avoid missing him doing it again”. Yes, it’s hard to officiate the game in real time. So help those guys out. Not nitpicking every play looking for an infraction, but correctly calling out ones that have a clear impact on a play when they are in fact missed. 

 

If it’s a pass play where the ball travels 15 or more yards downfield from the LOS and clear contact or interference is made an official upstairs would be able to buzz down and let them know there was contact and it needs to be a flag. It will likely be faster than it takes to review a turnover or TD. They’re not going to have to use slow motion ultra-zoom 34 camera angles to make these changes. We’ve all seen plenty of plays where contact has been obvious but uncalled, and it’s always apparent before the next snap ~40 seconds later. 
 

The “uncatchable ball” rule is common sense. The only way the WR would have caught that ball yesterday was if he was 13 feet tall. Even with an 8 foot vertical he wasn’t coming down with that pass inbounds. 
 

The mistakes in officiating are adding up right now. Why? Because we can see it. We see them in real time. We see them in real time at the game. We see them in real time at home. We see them in real time at the bar. We see them in real time and high definition. This isn’t the 90s or early 2000s anymore where television pictures, and big board video lacked a certain amount of depth and clarity. We’ve entered the high def age where we see what really happened in real-time and but the 7 people on the field determine what happened. 
 

Too often their determinations don’t match what actually happened. And that’s not a slight against them. They’re human. They have 2 eyes. They’re trying to get it right while seeing the whole field and possibly even moving. It’s hard for them to get it right. 
 

A little help would go a long way for them. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Johnson not being able to go would be really big because Bryan was not good.

 

 

[w87r]

1 minute ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I do like Steichen not making excuses here. He is right.

 

 

Yep Baker, was out of position on both plays and got cooked for 30yds by Moore and the 9yd catch by Cooper a few plays prior to the penalties.

 

Guy needs his walking papers.

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[bluebombers87]

5 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I do like Steichen not making excuses here. He is right.

 

 

Coward. 
 

Should’ve laid into the refs. Force the issue into the spotlight and make the league address it. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, w87r said:

Yep Baker, was out of position on both plays and got cooked for 30yds by Moore and the 9yd catch by Cooper a few plays prior to the penalties.

 

Guy needs his walking papers.

 

We might not have a choice Sunday because ju ju will probably be out awhile. 

[w87r]

Just now, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

We might not have a choice Sunday because ju ju will probably be out awhile. 

 Bring up Speed, get Brown in the slot, bring up Hall 

 

Anything is better.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, w87r said:

Yep Baker, was out of position on both plays and got cooked for 30yds by Moore and the 9yd catch by Cooper a few plays prior to the penalties.

 

Guy needs his walking papers.

 

If Ju Ju had not got hurt I imagine colts win this game.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, w87r said:

 Bring up Speed, get Brown in the slot, bring up Hall 

 

Anything is better.

Yep I said last night maybe have to move Kenny outside on more snaps. He has been playing some outside.  Bradley said cross could play Nickle so the option to do that could be there. You can’t continue to send baker out there.

[GoColts8818]

2 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Yep I said last night maybe have to move Kenny outside on more snaps. He has been playing some outside.  Bradley said cross could play Nickle so the option to do that could be there. You can’t continue to send baker out there.

I say Moore plays end after yesterday.  Just kidding.

[DynaMike]

5 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

Coward....

Really? You think Shane Steichen is a coward?? That's a bit much IMHO. I'm sure that you are much bolder than he will ever be lol.

Maybe he just sees things a bit different than you?

[bluebombers87]

1 minute ago, DynaMike said:

Really? You think Shane Steichen is a coward?? That's a bit much IMHO. I'm sure that you are much bolder than he will ever be lol.

Maybe he just sees things a bit different than you?

He had an opportunity to bring a league wide issue into the spotlight and potentially force the league to respond. He didn’t. 

 

And maybe I am and maybe I’m not. Doesn’t have anything to do with anything.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

12 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I say Moore plays end after yesterday.  Just kidding.

His stats were DE like. When I saw his stats after the game I was like woah.  Having him outside more probably does hurt the ability to have him blitz.

 

I just remembered Bradley knows Carr very well. No excuses Sunday to not take advantage of his weaknesses.

[Nickster]

58 minutes ago, Superman said:

And I think the PI was not overturned because the NFL standard for "uncatchable" is kind of blatant, even if it's not spelled out in the rule. I think it's obvious that the pass wasn't catchable, and the flag should have been picked up. But I've seen similar plays get flagged on passes that I think are obviously uncatchable.

 

Man I've seen a lot of catchable interpretations, but I swear that one takes the cake.  

We were just waiting for them to confer and overturn and were like WTPH (real loudly too) when they didn't . 

 

I cant figure out how to put the screenshots on here BECASUE it says the file is too big, but the ball is at least 5 ft conservatively over the head of the recevier, and lands about 10-12 feet past the End Zone line.

I don't imagine there have been many worse rulings on catchability than that.  

But if you haven't rewatched it check it out. 

 

 

 

[Superman]

19 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

Regardless, I’m not afraid to add as much as 10-15 minutes to a game to verify calls made on the field. 

 

I'm gonna say you're in the very small minority there. TV sports are already experiencing a decline in viewership for various reasons, making NFL games longer to accommodate the least interesting/exciting part of the game is a no-go. 

 

Seems like the gist of the rest of your post is 'the refs need to be better, so let's help them.' I 100% agree with that. I think a league bringing in $12 billion a year, and on its way to $25 billion year, can afford to pay and train full time refs. 

 

I also think the refs and probably replay HQ intentionally undermined the PI review a couple years ago, because they wanted to tell the owners that it's not a viable solution. And that's stupid, and the league should go back to the drawing board on that. I understand that it's hard to make subjective calls reviewable, but clear and obvious mistakes should be corrected, to the extent that it's reasonable and possible. And a committee on rules/officiating should be allowed a seat at the table when it's time to discuss rules changes.

 

But you also hinted at the fact that part of the increased scrutiny is due to the increased access and savvy of sports fans. We know what we're seeing, we can rewind, zoom in, discuss on social media and Youtube, etc. And the Internet is an echo chamber, for better or worse, so blatant bad calls get amplified. But I think NFL officiating is better than it was 15-20 years ago. The difference is we're more aware of the mistakes than we've ever been before. So part of the problem is perception, which doesn't always line up with reality.

 

Still, refs absolutely need to be better. But I don't know where the motivation will come from. The NFL is doing fine as it is.

[John Waylon]

28 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

I hadn't heard of that so my apologies.   My next question is why?  It opens up even more conspiracy theories.   Some calls are buzzed down, some aren't.   Why isn't it announced when it's used and when it isn't?  A guy watching a play can overturn a call made by the head ref on the field?    I don't mind using the technology,  but either go full on with it,  or don't use it

It doesn’t need to be full. No one wants an official going over ever single play looking for every single infraction. No one wants that. That’s a straw man argument. 
 

*Confirm all flags

Why not? For every 1 that takes 30 or 40 seconds to review there’s going to be 5 others that are confirmed within 15 seconds or less. It’s not going to add substantial time to games. That’s another straw man argument. 
 

*Passes of 15 yards or more with obvious contact

We're asking a referee sprinting down the sideline to watch the contact and the catch. This is the aspect of the game where this change would make the most difference because we’re asking too much of these officials in these instances. And obvious contact should be a stressed part of this rule. They should never have to make calls on plays where they have to slow it down to 0.001 speed and zoom in 34X to make a determination. This is not an actual challenge.
 

*Obvious missed calls 

Again, no one wants a fine tooth comb. Let’s use this like adults and correct obvious mistakes. If the QB rolls out left and there’s a TE holding over on the right hashmarks, no need. That had no effect on the play. But if there’s a TE holding on the left hashmarks and the QB gets a big run, or is able to throw a pass but the refs miss it, yeah. If a foul has an affect that obvious on a play but is missed for whatever reason then there should be a referee with the means to see that to be able to make that call. 
 

“Clear and obvious in real-time” should be the basis for any missed calls sent to the field. 
 

The NFL doesn’t want to do it simply because they don’t want to admit that the refs make mistakes in real-time. And the refs don’t want to, either. 
 

But they do. And it just is what it is. It’s not a knock. There’s a lot going on they have to watch. And some of them have to do it running at speed. They can’t see it all. And they don’t. And now we see it on the screens in higher definition than they see it with their own eyes, all before the next play. 
 

It’s a groundbreaking change to the world of officiating, but it’s an inevitable change. This kind of thing is being called for in all sports. MLB fans want robo umps. The NBA is flat-out throwing the officials under the bus with their missed call reports, but even that’s not going to be enough to suffice for long. The presentation of the sport has evolved to a place where officiating has become the weak link. 

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Man I've seen a lot of catchable interpretations, but I swear that one takes the cake.  

We were just waiting for them to confer and overturn and were like WTPH (real loudly too) when they didn't . 

 

I cant figure out how to put the screenshots on here BECASUE it says the file is too big, but the ball is at least 5 ft conservatively over the head of the recevier, and lands about 10-12 feet past the End Zone line.

I don't imagine there have been many worse rulings on catchability than that.  

But if you haven't rewatched it check it out. 

 

There's nothing to disagree with here. 

 

But I think when this happens in the middle of the second quarter, no one remembers it. This call helped decide the game, so it's going to stand out.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Wrong thread 

[w87r]

1 minute ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Kevin Bowen said on his podcast Brent’s might need season ending surgery. Said if it heals ok it’s own it’s several weeks if not surgery.

[JediXMan]

5 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Kevin Bowen said on his podcast Brent’s might need season ending surgery. Said if it heals ok it’s own it’s several weeks if not surgery.

What was the injury there were multiple players in the area.

[John Waylon]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm gonna say you're in the very small minority there. TV sports are already experiencing a decline in viewership for various reasons, making NFL games longer to accommodate the least interesting/exciting part of the game is a no-go. 

 

Seems like the gist of the rest of your post is 'the refs need to be better, so let's help them.' I 100% agree with that. I think a league bringing in $12 billion a year, and on its way to $25 billion year, can afford to pay and train full time refs. 

 

I also think the refs and probably replay HQ intentionally undermined the PI review a couple years ago, because they wanted to tell the owners that it's not a viable solution. And that's stupid, and the league should go back to the drawing board on that. I understand that it's hard to make subjective calls reviewable, but clear and obvious mistakes should be corrected, to the extent that it's reasonable and possible. And a committee on rules/officiating should be allowed a seat at the table when it's time to discuss rules changes.

 

But you also hinted at the fact that part of the increased scrutiny is due to the increased access and savvy of sports fans. We know what we're seeing, we can rewind, zoom in, discuss on social media and Youtube, etc. And the Internet is an echo chamber, for better or worse, so blatant bad calls get amplified. But I think NFL officiating is better than it was 15-20 years ago. The difference is we're more aware of the mistakes than we've ever been before. So part of the problem is perception, which doesn't always line up with reality.

 

Still, refs absolutely need to be better. But I don't know where the motivation will come from. The NFL is doing fine as it is.

I just went a little more in-depth on this in my reply to jvan about how I feel the presentation has made the officiating a problem. 
 

And I honestly feel like that has more of an adverse affect on viewers than anything else. I know we’ve all heard plenty of “I don’t watch football anymore because the refs decide the game” stories. Those were extreme arguments, but there are a lot of fans who have stopped watching over it. 
 

Having an official who could correct the kind of stuff that prevents that argument. It makes the NFL look like it’s committed to its rules. 
 

I sympathize with officials. I do not mean to % on them in any way. The fans in the seats can literally look up at the big boards and see it with better vision than they actually have. And they can do it before the next play starts. 
 

Traditionally I’ve always heard that refs don’t want someone undermining their calls. That was always the traditional argument against replay. They don’t want someone judging them for being wrong in real time is the argument I’ve heard against something like a sky judge. 
 

But how exactly is that working out for them? It’s happening anyways, and now they’re getting heat for the times where they get it wrong. 
 

Officials are against it because it is to them what the first robot was to the assembly line. 
 

And while that’s fair, I do think it is inevitable. 
 

It’s becoming a major issue for the league. This has been a story on the front pages of most major news outlets today. Between Mike McDaniels Twitter thread, what happened in our game, and others yesterday, the state of NFL officiating has taken some spotlight. This kind of stuff is going to drive a lot of fans away over the long-term. Something has to improve. 

[w87r]

7 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

I just went a little more in-depth on this in my reply to jvan about how I feel the presentation has made the officiating a problem. 
 

And I honestly feel like that has more of an adverse affect on viewers than anything else. I know we’ve all heard plenty of “I don’t watch football anymore because the refs decide the game” stories. Those were extreme arguments, but there are a lot of fans who have stopped watching over it. 
 

Having an official who could correct the kind of stuff that prevents that argument. It makes the NFL look like it’s committed to its rules. 
 

I sympathize with officials. I do not mean to % on them in any way. The fans in the seats can literally look up at the big boards and see it with better vision than they actually have. And they can do it before the next play starts. 
 

Traditionally I’ve always heard that refs don’t want someone undermining their calls. That was always the traditional argument against replay. They don’t want someone judging them for being wrong in real time is the argument I’ve heard against something like a sky judge. 
 

But how exactly is that working out for them? It’s happening anyways, and now they’re getting heat for the times where they get it wrong. 
 

Officials are against it because it is to them what the first robot was to the assembly line. 
 

And while that’s fair, I do think it is inevitable. 
 

It’s becoming a major issue for the league. This has been a story on the front pages of most major news outlets today. Between Mike McDaniels Twitter thread, what happened in our game, and others yesterday, the state of NFL officiating has taken some spotlight. This kind of stuff is going to drive a lot of fans away over the long-term. Something has to improve. 

Solid post John.

 

Great points.

 

The refs don't want to be judged on their missed call in the moment.

 

What they are failing to recognize is, no one will remember that a play has to be quick reviewed. They will remember however, when you have back to back calls in that situation of the game though .

 

 

No one will be bashing the officials as long as they get the calls right at the end of the day.

 

 

As far as the bolded, I'm pretty sure that is a parady account.

[CoachLite]

57 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

If Ju Ju had not got hurt I imagine colts win this game.  

Not with the way the refs called that game. I'm a referee in my sport. I don't mind being corrected by other refs if I make mistake. That's for the good of the game. These clowns are giving referees a bad name.

 

But I think there is more to the story that we aren't seeing. With NY being able to view and challenge bad play calls, it seems someone has their finger on the scale of these games. There are too many bad calls in favor of 'favored' teams.

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

And I honestly feel like that has more of an adverse affect on viewers than anything else. I know we’ve all heard plenty of “I don’t watch football anymore because the refs decide the game” stories. Those were extreme arguments, but there are a lot of fans who have stopped watching over it. 

 

Anecdotal, and I think it's bogus. I don't think the quality of officiating is driving people away from the NFL in any meaningful way. I think people have a tendency to blame their favorite boogeyman. The reason why sports viewership is down is simple, IMO -- people consume sports and entertainment differently than they did a few years ago, and the largest demographics are not watching live sports the way they used to. 

 

Quote

 

Traditionally I’ve always heard that refs don’t want someone undermining their calls. That was always the traditional argument against replay. They don’t want someone judging them for being wrong in real time is the argument I’ve heard against something like a sky judge. 
 

But how exactly is that working out for them? It’s happening anyways, and now they’re getting heat for the times where they get it wrong. 

 

 

I agree with your point, but I think there's an element of authority that has to be considered as well. I'm a big NBA fan, but NBA players undermine the refs all game long, and it sours me on players. Every time a call is made that the player doesn't like, he's twirling his finger asking the coach to challenge the play. It's poor sportsmanship, and a little entitled.

 

And this is relatively new. You can watch games from a decade ago and notice a big difference in the way players and refs interacted with each other. 

 

My point is that it's probably not good to completely undermine the refs if you expect them to still maintain some control over the way the game is managed.

 

Still, allowing the replay process to correct clear and obvious mistakes -- to a reasonable extent -- is a mild correction that could be made without too much impact to the way the game is played.

[Nickster]

36 minutes ago, Superman said:

Still, refs absolutely need to be better. But I don't know where the motivation will come from. The NFL is doing fine as it is

 

Bad reffing is a water cooler talking point that keeps the NFL in the minds, on the tongues, and on the TVs and phones of consumers and exposes them even more to the NFL brand and sponsers.  

 

I don't know if this is part of the decision to have part time refs lol, but it's sure a probably benefit.  There is a lot of NFL buzz generated by bad officiating, if it was great, that buzz wouldn't exist. 

[w87r]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

there's an element of authority that has to be considered as well. I'm a big NBA fan, but NBA players undermine the refs all game long, and it sours me on players.

 

 

Drives me crazy, that and flopping..

 

It's so bad now, like 12th-13th roster spot guys are complaining. Like who are you bro, shut up and go play some defense.

[Nickster]

5 minutes ago, w87r said:

 

 

Drives me crazy, that and flopping..

 

It's so bad now, like 12th-13th roster spot guys are complaining. Like who are you bro, shut up and go play some defense.

 

I watch a lot of soccer.  It is by far the worst when it comes to complaining and flopping, etc.   

[hoosierhawk]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I didn't catch the explanation on the ineligible downfield call. The guy was clearly more than 1 yard past the line of scrimmage when the pass was thrown, so I don't understand why they picked it up.

I thought heard them say that the pass was caught behind the line of scrimmage so negated the illegal man down field.