2023 Colts and NFL free agency news, rumors, discussions

[Goatface Killah]

Just now, shasta519 said:

 

I will just say that I disagree with saying TB and Ryan were similar. And the difference between the perception of Stafford and Wentz was reflected in the asking price.

 

And I am definitely no playing revisionist history. I argued with many of the good people on this forum about both acquisitions at the time. 

But plenty people were and thats enough to suggest it was a reasonable decision, even if you disagreed with it.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, Aaron86 said:

Maybe. But I could see him grabbing one in the 3rd. 

3rd round would be a sweet spot for a WR. Someone like a Tyler Scott, Marvin Mims, or Cedric Tillman should be available there. Nathaniel Dell is another option.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, Aaron86 said:

Maybe. But I could see him grabbing one in the 3rd. 

Ballard doesn’t value WR. Until I see him charge I don’t trust him. 
 

This is great analysis from rap. Surround your young QB with as many weapons as you can. Which is what panthers are doing.

 

[Goatface Killah]

Just now, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Ballard doesn’t value WR. Until I see him charge I don’t trust him. 
 

This is great analysis from rap. Surround your young QB with as many weapons as you can. Which is what panthers are doing.

 

We have better weapons than them. By far.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Ballard doesn’t value WR. Until I see him charge I don’t trust him. 
 

This is great analysis from rap. Surround your young QB with as many weapons as you can. Which is what panthers are doing.

 

Agreed. This makes me think it was Ballard 100% that was responsible for the passiveness at WR and not Reich. Reich goes to a new team, and they are already trying to load up on WRs. Getting Theilen and going after Chark. They are making up for losing Moore in the trade up that they used him in to get to no1. This is what smart organizations do. Ballard should be signing a CB to make up for Gilmore so it's like we get a 5th rounder and a FA CB for Gilmore, but we haven't done that.

[2006Coltsbestever]

We lost 4 games by 3 points or less - let that sink in, with a good QB we would of been 8-8-1 at worse with Taylor injured. We aren't as bad as people think. We played a majority of the season without Taylor and Leonard played 1 game . Put Lamar on this team and we go 10-7 if healthy, that is common sense with the offensive minded coach we have now. 

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, Goatface Killah said:

We have better weapons than them. By far.

As of now yes. If they get Chark, then no. That would give them Chark, Theilen, Shanault, Marshall, and Shi Smith as their top 5. That would be a decent group of young and veteran receivers that's 5 deep. We'd have the best receiver in Pittman, but we really have 4 notable guys in Pittman, Pierce, Dulin, and Strachan, and the latter two have gotten nearly 0 opportunities as NFL starting WRs.

[chad72]

Just now, Goatface Killah said:

We have better weapons than them. By far.

 

Yep. Our TEs are a bit underutilized, and this is not a great draft for WRs, we mostly will draft a slot wideout depending on Steichen's preference on Day 3, IMO.

[chad72]

9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We lost 4 games by 3 points or less - let that sink in, with a good QB we would of been 8-8-1 at worse with Taylor injured. We aren't as bad as people think. We played a majority of the season without Taylor and Leonard played 1 game . Put Lamar on this team and we go 10-7 if healthy, that is common sense with the offensive minded coach we have now. 

 

With Lamar, we win the division, IMO, if Gus Bradley doesn't blow it in the 4th qtr.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, chad72 said:

 

With Lamar, we win the division, IMO, if Gus Bradley doesn't blow it in the 4th qtr.

Be careful you may get a sad face for saying that but I agree with you. 

[chad72]

6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Be careful you may get a sad face for saying that but I agree with you. 

 

This is why Ballard should go after a DC who "adapts" on the defensive side, like Steichen has been known to do as an OC on the offensive side. Ballard likes to go with "safe", and safe gets you mediocrity in the NFL on whatever phase you chose safe, like with Leslie Frazier in Buffalo. Bengals have a less talented D on paper than the Bills, but have a more talented DC in Lou Anarumo who maximizes and mixes it up far more thus limiting the likes of Bills and Chiefs offenses, plus several others too.

 

Then, everyone plays the "chicken or egg" thing with Bradley and Ballard - it is the talent, it is the scheme, yada, yada, yada...

[Goatface Killah]

16 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

As of now yes. If they get Chark, then no. That would give them Chark, Theilen, Shanault, Marshall, and Shi Smith as their top 5. That would be a decent group of young and veteran receivers that's 5 deep. We'd have the best receiver in Pittman, but we really have 4 notable guys in Pittman, Pierce, Dulin, and Strachan, and the latter two have gotten nearly 0 opportunities as NFL starting WRs.

Chark had 30 catches last year and is injury prone lol

 

What about Taylor? Jelani Woods? Hell Granson had 30 catches last year with low snaps.

[shasta519]

8 minutes ago, Goatface Killah said:

But plenty people were and thats enough to suggest it was a reasonable decision, even if you disagreed with it.

 

Plenty of examples of large groups of people believing/agreeing with some not reasonable things throughout history.

 

And this fanbase (or really any fanbase) is no stranger to groupthink. 

 

Fans often take their queues from the org and media. And as Jared said, the professionals are paid to know better than fans. And the media is paid to question those decisions.

 

But neither really happened. Instead, it was all hype for this team going forward. You had the Colts talking about Wentz being a 5-7 year solution and Irsay talking about the next great decade of Colts football. And then the next year, you have the media saying that Ryan is the "best Colts QB since Luck" and that the Colts are darkhorse SB contenders.

 

Of course the fanbase liked the sound of all of that. But it wasn't reasonable at all. And fans got duped. 

 

 

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

With Lamar, we win the division, IMO, if Gus Bradley doesn't blow it in the 4th qtr.

Problem with many in here they are ok with mediocre play and saving money. There are the truefans in here that want to win and are tired of losing. We need to make a huge splash and quit being cheap, that is just the bottomline if we want to get anywhere.

 

Yeah I am content with my 2006 SB win as a fan but that happened 17 years ago, I at least want to watch a good product. We can only use Luck retiring as an excuse so many years. I said it would set us back 5 years when he retired. It has now been 5 years (2019-2022) so it is time to poo or get off the pot now here in 2023. 

[Goatface Killah]

1 minute ago, shasta519 said:

 

Plenty of examples of large groups of people believing/agreeing with some not reasonable things throughout history.

 

And this fanbase (or really any fanbase) is no stranger to groupthink. 

 

Fans often take their queues from the org and media. And as Jared said, the professionals are paid to know better than fans. And the media is paid to question those decisions.

 

But neither really happened. Instead, it was all hype for this team going forward. You had the Colts talking about Wentz being a 5-7 year solution and Irsay talking about the next great decade of Colts football. And then the next year, you have the media saying that Ryan is the "best Colts QB since Luck" and that the Colts are darkhorse SB contenders.

 

Of course the fanbase liked the sound of all of that. But it wasn't reasonable at all. And fans got duped. 

 

 

 

 

You cant just say something is "unreasonable" because you dont agree with it or it didnt work.

[chad72]

7 minutes ago, Goatface Killah said:

You cant just say something is "unreasonable" because you dont agree with it or it didnt work.

 

Unreasonable is probably the wrong word for the move itself, unreasonable is the right word for the "expectations" presented to us, IMO. The odds of Wentz turning it around was always a bet Reich made front and center, in front of Irsay and Ballard, coming on the heels of all the downswings Wentz had recently endured. The odds of Matt Ryan winning the division was a less likely bet given Matt's fading arm and him being in the home stretch of his career, plus not paying attention to how the OL was fading in a few spots requiring a mobile QB, IMO. However, both were presented as "rosier than the reality" situations to Colts fans. Fans are ready for a rookie QB, no doubt.

[Yoshinator]

11 minutes ago, Goatface Killah said:

Chark had 30 catches last year and is injury prone lol

 

What about Taylor? Jelani Woods? Hell Granson had 30 catches last year with low snaps.

Hayden Hurst is better individually than any of our TEs, but I'd rather have Woods and Granson based on upside and potential.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Hayden Hurst is better individually than any of our TEs, but I'd rather have Woods and Granson based on upside and potential.

Also, we definitely have the best RB in Taylor of the two teams. Sanders and Chubba are no2 and no3 though for the Panthers.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, chad72 said:

 

Unreasonable is probably the wrong word for the move itself, unreasonable is the right word for the "expectations" presented to us, IMO. The odds of Wentz turning it around was always a bet Reich made front and center, in front of Irsay and Ballard, coming on the heels of all the downswings Wentz had recently endured. The odds of Matt Ryan winning the division was a less likely bet given Matt's fading arm and him being in the home stretch of his career. However, both were presented as "rosier than the reality" situations to Colts fans. Fans are ready for a rookie QB, no doubt.

Eventhough I was wrong, I thought we would win the division with Matt Ryan. I got one wrong. Unfortunately he struggled, Taylor was injured a lot, Leonard was out all season, etc.. I was right about Rivers though when I said he would be good and we would make the playoffs and was right about Wentz when I said signing Wentz was a bad move and we would miss the playoffs. Now when we were 9-6 I was eating crow, then Wentz played like Mike Pagel  

 

I will put my football IQ test on the line and say if we somehow get Lamar, we go 10-7 and make the playoffs. If Taylor and Leonard are both 100% healthy.

[chad72]

Brandin Cooks going to a playoff team typically results in that team going to the SB.

 

2017 Patriots

2018 Rams

 

Both of them went to the SB with Cooks and lost. I think the Cowboys and Lions have a very good chance to dethrone the Eagles in the NFC.

[chad72]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Eventhough I was wrong, I thought we would win the division with Matt Ryan. I got one wrong. Unfortunately he struggled, Taylor was injured a lot, Leonard was out all season, etc.. I was right about Rivers though when I said he would be good and we would make the playoffs and was right about Wentz when I said signing Wentz was a bad move and we would miss the playoffs. Now when we were 9-6 I was eating crow, then Wentz played like Mike Pagel  

 

I will put my football IQ test on the line and say if we somehow get Lamar, we go 10-7 and make the playoffs. If Taylor and Leonard are both 100% healthy.

 

There will be enough time for predictions IF we get Lamar, that is a big IF.  

 

Once we land our QB, the predictions shall be revised, lol. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, chad72 said:

 

There will be enough time for predictions IF we get Lamar, that is a big IF.  

 

Once we land our QB, the predictions shall be revised, lol. 

We will probably end up with Levis  

[Yoshinator]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We will probably end up with Levis  

Yep, and Homer will fall down Springfield Gorge lol.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

Yep, and Homer will fall down Springfield Gorge lol.

[Patrick Miller]

 

[Patrick Miller]

I’m kind of glad pascal went to the cards. I didn’t want him back. 

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, Patrick Miller said:

I’m kind of glad pascal went to the cards. I didn’t want him back. 

Same. The only negative I get from it is that maybe Steichen isn't as attractive to the Eagles FAs as I may of thought. Though Jonathan Gannon could have had something to do with this signing as well.

[shasta519]

17 minutes ago, Goatface Killah said:

You cant just say something is "unreasonable" because you dont agree with it or it didnt work.

 

Well when the excitement around both moves was largely based on unreasonable expectations and hype, I think it's fair.

 

That's the part that was unreasonable. The moves, without any real expectations, would have been reasonable I guess. But that was not the purpose of the moves or how they were portrayed.

 

 

 

[cdgacoltsfan]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Actually, Sam and Minshew are somewhat similar to Lamar, they just aren't as good of runners and scramblers. I'm sure you can build a playbook around all three and it'd work relatively well.

Baltimore is a well run and coached organization. There is a reason they are not caving in to Lamar's demand to be the highest paid player.

[Aaron86]

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Ballard doesn’t value WR. Until I see him charge I don’t trust him. 
 

This is great analysis from rap. Surround your young QB with as many weapons as you can. Which is what panthers are doing.

 

The panthers are being dumb with money. I don't agree with their philosophy at all. But I guess that's what you have to do after you give up a ton of picks.

Ballard just picked Alec pperce who I think is going to be really good. I know WR is not our biggest strength but I do think they are pretty good. They have just not had good coaching or a half decent QB to throw to them.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, Aaron86 said:

The panthers are being dumb with money. I don't agree with their philosophy at all. But I guess that's what you have to do after you give up a ton of picks.

Ballard just picked Alec pperce who I think is going to be really good. I know WR is not our biggest strength but I do think they are pretty good. They have just not had good coaching or a half decent QB to throw to them.  

Everyone though jags were being dumb too and look how that turned out.

[Aaron86]

Just now, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Everyone though jags were being dumb too and look how that turned out.

I dont buy all that. They went what 9-8. Trevor was always destined to be good. Adding Doug Pedersen helped them tremendously. 

[Aaron86]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

3rd round would be a sweet spot for a WR. Someone like a Tyler Scott, Marvin Mims, or Cedric Tillman should be available there. Nathaniel Dell is another option.

I really think he is going to pick a WR in the draft. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, Aaron86 said:

I dont buy all that. They went what 9-8. Trevor was always destined to be good. Adding Doug Pedersen helped them tremendously. 

They were dragged through the mud when they signed Kirk and spent all that money on receiving options for Lawrence.

[shasta519]

36 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Unreasonable is probably the wrong word for the move itself, unreasonable is the right word for the "expectations" presented to us, IMO. The odds of Wentz turning it around was always a bet Reich made front and center, in front of Irsay and Ballard, coming on the heels of all the downswings Wentz had recently endured. The odds of Matt Ryan winning the division was a less likely bet given Matt's fading arm and him being in the home stretch of his career, plus not paying attention to how the OL was fading in a few spots requiring a mobile QB, IMO. However, both were presented as "rosier than the reality" situations to Colts fans. Fans are ready for a rookie QB, no doubt.

 

Yep. I think I just typed this exact same response. Unreasonable for the expectations, for the fans and the team.

 

At least with Wentz, it was a bit more reserved. It was more about Reich working his magic and turning Wentz into a franchise QB. And how Ballard had fleeced Howie Roseman for a franchise QB in a masterclass of negotiating. 

 

But it not long ago that outrageous things were being said about Ryan. And this was AFTER the Wentz experiment. From him being "best Colts QB since Luck" to comparisons to Manning to the Colts being an AFCS shoe-in and a SB contender (Zierlein even had them winning it haha). For some reason, most of the media were willingly lining up to praise that move with little critical thinking.

 

At the risk of agreeing with Dakich, I think last offseason exposed either how much juice Ballard has with the media or how narrative-driven they can be. For so many supposedly qualified NFL writers and even content creators to be all so wildly wrong about the Colts and Ryan, it's hard to believe there wasn't some coordination involved. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, Aaron86 said:

I really think he is going to pick a WR in the draft. 

Probably 6th or 7th round lol. Colts have too many other holes to take one sooner.

[Goatface Killah]

23 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Well when the excitement around both moves was largely based on unreasonable expectations and hype, I think it's fair.

 

That's the part that was unreasonable. The moves, without any real expectations, would have been reasonable I guess. But that was not the purpose of the moves or how they were portrayed.

 

 

 

I dont think its unreasonable to wonder if Carson could recapture the same success he had already previously achieved under Frank Reich.

 

And I dont think it was unreasonable to suspect Matt Ryan could perform better in key moments than Wentz did for us the previous season.

 

Nobody expected either guy to be in the MVP conversation. Just to be better than our other options.

[Goatface Killah]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Hayden Hurst is better individually than any of our TEs, but I'd rather have Woods and Granson based on upside and potential.

Hurst is ok but he is playing on a different team every year for a reason.

 

The Colts skill group, as a whole, is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. 

[Aaron86]

1 minute ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

They were dragged through the mud when they signed Kirk and spent all that money on receiving options for Lawrence.

What did signing all of them solve? Not a dang thing. They barely made the playoffs. The Jags are not a organization I would model mine after. The Jags have been doing this for years. Big spenders and nothing to show for it.

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, Goatface Killah said:

Hurst is ok but he is playing on a different team every year for a reason.

 

The Colts skill group, as a whole, is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. 

I agree with both sentences. We also have Ogletree at TE, who was balling out before tearing an ACL. He was a forum favorite in training camp.