Colts have 4th pick (Official Discussion Thread)

[John Hammonds]

14 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

I mentioned earlier in the thread. I see all 3 as tier 2 guys, not tier 1 (no brainer stud, guarantee). 

So definitely not worth giving up our 2024 first round pick. In short, I like our situation, and would be good with any of the 3. 

The worst thing we could do, is fall in love with one, and mortgage our future..... 

I agree.  I'm not in love with any of the top three, but I do believe that we must take one of them.  And I don't think any of them are worth the price to trade up for.  If we sit at #4, we're pretty certain to get one of them.  If they go 1-2-3, then we're going to get an excellent non-QB at #4, and potentially pick up one of the lesser QB's in the 2nd round.

I'm ok with taking any of them at #4

If it's Bryce Young, then we'll work with his ability to throw with anticipation

If it's CJ Stroud, then we'll work with his athleticism and skills

If it's Will Levis, then we'll work with his arm strength and competitiveness

But I'm not ok with trading up for any of them.

[Nickster]

25 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

 

 

Wonder if it's possible that they would sign in him after he's released. 

[Boss7894]

20 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

I agree.  I'm not in love with any of the top three, but I do believe that we must take one of them.  And I don't think any of them are worth the price to trade up for.  If we sit at #4, we're pretty certain to get one of them.  If they go 1-2-3, then we're going to get an excellent non-QB at #4, and potentially pick up one of the lesser QB's in the 2nd round.

I'm ok with taking any of them at #4

If it's Bryce Young, then we'll work with his ability to throw with anticipation

If it's CJ Stroud, then we'll work with his athleticism and skills

If it's Will Levis, then we'll work with his arm strength and competitiveness

But I'm not ok with trading up for any of them.

What if it’s Max Duggan like so many people wanted?

[richard pallo]

2 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Wonder if it's possible that they would sign in him after he's released. 

I could see them exploring that.  We could then trade back a little get an extra second and take a quarterback in the 2nd.  I think fans would be good with that as long as we draft a quarterback.  Not many like this quarterback class anyway and the Colts might come to the same conclusion. 

[Nickster]

13 hours ago, coming on strong said:

 

 

I don't watch CFB much and even when I did I couldn't judge which QBs would be good in The League (truth be told I don't think very many people including professionals do with consistent high pick busts and a few late drafted studs), but I watched about 30 seconds of that video and it is clear why some are really high on this kid.  

 

Beautiful short release.  As good as that gets.  You won't see anyone better than that.  Arm talent in heaps and gobs. 

 

Now he might be a complete bust, I have no idea, but wow watching him throw a ball from an aesthetic POV is like looking at a sunset in Glacier National Park.  Will he be able to read and react.  That's the difficult question that is obviously far from an exact science.  But if he can, he's got the arm of a HOFer. 

 

The only thing I would have to say to people is a generality.  It's hard to look great at KY in the SEC.  He led them to 10 wins last year and that is saying something. 

[Nickster]

6 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I could see them exploring that.  We could then trade back a little get an extra second and take a quarterback in the 2nd.  I think fans would be good with that as long as we draft a quarterback.  Not many like this quarterback class anyway and the Colts might come to the same conclusion. 

 

I thought I've read this is a highly rated QB class.  IDK.  I don't follow much CFB. 

[John Hammonds]

4 minutes ago, Boss7894 said:

What if it’s Max Duggan like so many people wanted?

I wouldn't take him in the first round.  Heck, I'd even be hesitant to take him in the second.  He's a gutsy, high productivity college player.  But the assessment is that he doesn't have NFL-level skills.  And will struggle against NFL-level defenses.  A point that was hugely on display in the championship game.

He's my 6th rated QB, after the top 3, Hooker, and McGee.  (I'm scared to death of Richardson)

[Nickster]

1 minute ago, John Hammonds said:

I wouldn't take him in the first round.  Heck, I'd even be hesitant to take him in the second.  He's a gutsy, high productivity college player.  But the assessment is that he doesn't have NFL-level skills.  And will struggle against NFL-level defenses.  A point that was hugely on display in the championship game.

He's my 6th rated QB, after the top 3, Hooker, and McGee.  (I'm scared to death of Richardson)

 

He didn't look like a NFL QB to me even in his heroic game v. MI, but some guys that end up being good don't necessarily look the part. 

[John Hammonds]

2 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

I don't watch CFB much and even when I did I couldn't judge which QBs would be good in The League (truth be told I don't think very many people including professionals do with consistent high pick busts and a few late drafted studs), but I watched about 30 seconds of that video and it is clear why some are really high on this kid.  

 

Beautiful short release.  As good as that gets.  You won't see anyone better than that.  Arm talent in heaps and gobs. 

 

Now he might be a complete bust, I have no idea, but wow watching him throw a ball from an aesthetic POV is like looking at a sunset in Glacier National Park.  Will he be able to read and react.  That's the difficult question that is obviously far from an exact science.  But if he can, he's got the arm of a HOFer. 

 

The only thing I would have to say to people is a generality.  It's hard to look great at KY in the SEC.  He led them to 10 wins last year and that is saying something. 

The other thing his detractors have pointed out is that he sometimes has subpar vision.  And has totally not seen wide open guys.

I still like Levis, despite his warts.  But he'll definitely need to improve where he's lacking.

[danlhart87]

11 minutes ago, Boss7894 said:

What if it’s Max Duggan like so many people wanted?

Before the start of the 2020 season, a previously unknown heart issue was discovered during enhanced preseason testing during the pandemic. Two days after a procedure to fix the heart issue, Duggan needed emergency surgery because of a blood clot. The son of a coach didn't miss a game.Dec 28, 2022

 

He's going undrafted 

 

 

[chad72]

3 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Before the start of the 2020 season, a previously unknown heart issue was discovered during enhanced preseason testing during the pandemic. Two days after a procedure to fix the heart issue, Duggan needed emergency surgery because of a blood clot. The son of a coach didn't miss a game.Dec 28, 2022

 

He's going undrafted 

 

 

After his playoff performances, yeah, 6th or 7th round is what can be projected. That is as good as going undrafted but as undrafted, you get to choose. 

[Nickster]

2 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

The other thing his detractors have pointed out is that he sometimes has subpar vision.  And has totally not seen wide open guys.

I still like Levis, despite his warts.  But he'll definitely need to improve where he's lacking.

 

Yeah I've never seen him play.  I didn't realize he wasn't playing the bowl game and was disappointed he didn't play.  but just because of me.  I don't agree with anyone that it was a show of anything negative.  His team was 7 and 6 and many kids are opting for this.  It's different than when I was young.  But that was a fairly meaningless games and he would have literally been risking millions of dollars. 

[coming on strong]

27 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

I don't watch CFB much and even when I did I couldn't judge which QBs would be good in The League (truth be told I don't think very many people including professionals do with consistent high pick busts and a few late drafted studs), but I watched about 30 seconds of that video and it is clear why some are really high on this kid.  

 

Beautiful short release.  As good as that gets.  You won't see anyone better than that.  Arm talent in heaps and gobs. 

 

Now he might be a complete bust, I have no idea, but wow watching him throw a ball from an aesthetic POV is like looking at a sunset in Glacier National Park.  Will he be able to read and react.  That's the difficult question that is obviously far from an exact science.  But if he can, he's got the arm of a HOFer. 

 

The only thing I would have to say to people is a generality.  It's hard to look great at KY in the SEC.  He led them to 10 wins last year and that is saying something. 

Watching the film breakdown proves he can make all the throws off balance without a clean pocket .   Plus he goes through his progressions very well and runs a pro style offense . 

[Nickster]

Just now, coming on strong said:

Watching the film breakdown proves he can make all the throws off balance without a clean pocket .   Plus he goes through his progressions very well and runs a pro style offense . 

Ima watch later in full.  Is it all highlights?  Or does it show the ugly too?

[John Hammonds]

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

Ima watch later in full.  Is it all highlights?  Or does it show the ugly too?

He has a baaaaad pick-6 from another player I've got my eye on, Miss State CB Emmanuel Forbes

[#12.]

22 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

I don't watch CFB much and even when I did I couldn't judge which QBs would be good in The League (truth be told I don't think very many people including professionals do with consistent high pick busts and a few late drafted studs), but I watched about 30 seconds of that video and it is clear why some are really high on this kid.  

 

Beautiful short release.  As good as that gets.  You won't see anyone better than that.  Arm talent in heaps and gobs. 

 

Now he might be a complete bust, I have no idea, but wow watching him throw a ball from an aesthetic POV is like looking at a sunset in Glacier National Park.  Will he be able to read and react.  That's the difficult question that is obviously far from an exact science.  But if he can, he's got the arm of a HOFer. 

 

The only thing I would have to say to people is a generality.  It's hard to look great at KY in the SEC.  He led them to 10 wins last year and that is saying something. 

 

I did the same thing stitches did last year. I had no idea who Levis was.   Before Levis started getting national recognition, I was going through YouTube highlights of the top 15-20  wide receivers coming out in the draft.  I got to Wandale Robinson, saw 3 passes and said, who the hell is the QB?

 

He certainly has the talent, but you're right, it's all a crap shoot.  I would be happy with Stroud or Levis.  It's all just a question of how much you have to pay for each, and yes, both are talented, but neither is Manning or Luck.  

 

I don't see Ballard drafting Young under any circumstances, so I leave him out of it.

 

 

[coming on strong]

5 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Ima watch later in full.  Is it all highlights?  Or does it show the ugly too?

It shows ugly too . It shows his flaws which are high turnover rates . 

[AKB]

39 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

I don't watch CFB much and even when I did I couldn't judge which QBs would be good in The League (truth be told I don't think very many people including professionals do with consistent high pick busts and a few late drafted studs), but I watched about 30 seconds of that video and it is clear why some are really high on this kid.  

 

Beautiful short release.  As good as that gets.  You won't see anyone better than that.  Arm talent in heaps and gobs. 

 

Now he might be a complete bust, I have no idea, but wow watching him throw a ball from an aesthetic POV is like looking at a sunset in Glacier National Park.  Will he be able to read and react.  That's the difficult question that is obviously far from an exact science.  But if he can, he's got the arm of a HOFer. 

 

The only thing I would have to say to people is a generality.  It's hard to look great at KY in the SEC.  He led them to 10 wins last year and that is saying something. 

he appears to be arm talented and turnover prone.

 

didn't we just go through that with Wentz

[Solid84]

3 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

It shows ugly too . It shows his flaws which are high turnover rates . 

As long as he’s coachable. Manning had a ton of picks early in his career and he got bettee. 

[#12.]

I don't know how anyone can watch Ohio State vs. Kentucky and not see the glaring differences in surrounding talent, how much easier things are for Stroud.  That's not to say Stroud isn't a talented QB, but it's still part of the calculation.

[OLD FAN MAN]

if hooker drops down like round 3 imo he is worth a shot

[TaylorStillTruckedYou]

Looks to be a report that Raiders will cut Carr if not traded.  Say this happens, wouldn’t it be a great opportunity to potentially sign Carr for a year to rebuild his Value and draft our QB at 4 or after a trade down to learn behind Carr for a year?  Could be the best case scenario for use competitively and future wise

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, TaylorStillTruckedYou said:

Looks to be a report that Raiders will cut Carr if not traded.  Say this happens, wouldn’t it be a great opportunity to potentially sign Carr for a year to rebuild his Value and draft our QB at 4 or after a trade down to learn behind Carr for a year?  Could be the best case scenario for use competitively and future wise

Of course.

[John Hammonds]

2 minutes ago, TaylorStillTruckedYou said:

Looks to be a report that Raiders will cut Carr if not traded.  Say this happens, wouldn’t it be a great opportunity to potentially sign Carr for a year to rebuild his Value and draft our QB at 4 or after a trade down to learn behind Carr for a year?  Could be the best case scenario for use competitively and future wise

It's a very good point.  And probably one to discuss in its own thread.  Even if we take one of the top 3 QB's in the draft, there are some who say that none of them are ready to start right away.  So...  If your rookie QB isn't ready to start, and you don't want to keep Ryan, and Sam is only good for backup duty -- who do you start?  Do you bring in a Carr?  Or a Mayfield?  Or Garappolo?  To start until your rookie is ready to take the reigns?

[ADnum1]

Levis reminds me of Jacob Eason.

 

Levis is not very mobile as well

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

It's a very good point.  And probably one to discuss in its own thread.  Even if we take one of the top 3 QB's in the draft, there are some who say that none of them are ready to start right away.  So...  If your rookie QB isn't ready to start, and you don't want to keep Ryan, and Sam is only good for backup duty -- who do you start?  Do you bring in a Carr?  Or a Mayfield?  Or Garappolo?  To start until your rookie is ready to take the reigns?

Definitely not Mayfield, now I like that Jimmy guy he is a winner 

[MikeCurtis]

1 minute ago, John Hammonds said:

It's a very good point.  And probably one to discuss in its own thread.  Even if we take one of the top 3 QB's in the draft, there are some who say that none of them are ready to start right away.  So...  If your rookie QB isn't ready to start, and you don't want to keep Ryan, and Sam is only good for backup duty -- who do you start?  Do you bring in a Carr?  Or a Mayfield?  Or Garappolo?  To start until your rookie is ready to take the reigns?

With the top 3 QBs, you throw them on the field immediatly

 

All 3 run many concepts that are part of the pro game

 

If we miss on the top 3 and end up with Richardson and maybe Hooker, you HAVE to let them carry a clipboard

and you have to bring in a vet

 

Im not sure how motivated Carr or Garappolo would be to come here to be a pure backup

 

If Brock Purdy and B Zappe can be thown in with success at the pro level........  I believe that we can do that with one of the top 3 in this draft.

 

I do think we need a vet though

 

 

 

 

[MikeCurtis]

5 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

Levis reminds me of Jacob Eason.

 

Levis is not very mobile as well

I hate to disagree with a fellow Colts fan, but go watch some 2021 tape on Levis

 

The guy is VERY mobile..... He was banged up with foot and other injuries this year

 

Jacob had a long windup that hurt him as well

Levis has one of the fastest releases in a long while

[coming on strong]

6 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

Levis reminds me of Jacob Eason.

 

Levis is not very mobile as well

No way Eason was a statue who couldn’t handle any pressure . He couldn’t move around in the pocket and keep his eyes down field .  Eason couldn’t go through his progressions or put touch on passes only line drive throws . 

[JColts72]

7 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

Levis reminds me of Jacob Eason.

 

Levis is not very mobile as well

Will get destroyed behind o line with Colts.

[TaylorStillTruckedYou]

3 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

It's a very good point.  And probably one to discuss in its own thread.  Even if we take one of the top 3 QB's in the draft, there are some who say that none of them are ready to start right away.  So...  If your rookie QB isn't ready to start, and you don't want to keep Ryan, and Sam is only good for backup duty -- who do you start?  Do you bring in a Carr?  Or a Mayfield?  Or Garappolo?  To start until your rookie is ready to take the reins?

I would be open for Garappolo, as he of course would be a cheaper option, and still be a capable game manager in my opinion.  There’s almost a universal agreement that all 3 QB’s may need time to adjust to the NFL, whether that’s physically or Mentally.  Sitting behind a Vet for even half a season could be very beneficial in the development of these upcoming QB’s 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, JColts72 said:

Will get destroyed behind o line with Colts.

This Oline will be fixed this off season.

[Nickster]

19 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

he appears to be arm talented and turnover prone.

 

didn't we just go through that with Wentz

meh.  10 Ints v. SEC talent for a traditional doormat team doesn't scare me in and of itself.  But like I've said.  I have never seen him play. 

 

What are you talking about with Wentz?  He only threw 7 INTs for us.  He was not TO prone.  He had a couple memorable ones, but he wasn't a TO prone NFL QB.  He had a bad year in a down year for PHI in 2020.  TOs were not a major issue overall for Wentz throughout his career. 

[richard pallo]

3 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

With the top 3 QBs, you throw them on the field immediatly

 

All 3 run many concepts that are part of the pro game

 

If we miss on the top 3 and end up with Richardson and maybe Hooker, you HAVE to let them carry a clipboard

and you have to bring in a vet

 

Im not sure how motivated Carr or Garappolo would be to come here to be a pure backup

 

If Brock Purdy and B Zappe can be thown in with success at the pro level........  I believe that we can do that with one of the top 3 in this draft.

 

I do think we need a vet though

 

 

 

 

I don’t think Carr will be a backup anywhere.  He will start somewhere.  Miami, Tennessee, Washington, New Orleans quickly come to mind.

[AKB]

2 minutes ago, Nickster said:

meh.  10 Ints v. SEC talent for a traditional doormat team doesn't scare me in and of itself.  But like I've said.  I have never seen him play. 

 

What are you talking about with Wentz?  He only threw 7 INTs for us.  He was not TO prone.  He had a couple memorable ones, but he wasn't a TO prone NFL QB.  He had a bad year in a down year for PHI in 2020.  TOs were not a major issue overall for Wentz throughout his career. 

go tell WASH fans that Wentz isn't turnover prone. 

 

And I've debated this 50x on here.  With us, it wasn't about the number of turnovers.  It was always about the situation in which the turnover occured. 

[chad72]

5 minutes ago, TaylorStillTruckedYou said:

I would be open for Garappolo, as he of course would be a cheaper option, and still be a capable game manager in my opinion.  There’s almost a universal agreement that all 3 QB’s may need time to adjust to the NFL, whether that’s physically or Mentally.  Sitting behind a Vet for even half a season could be very beneficial in the development of these upcoming QB’s 

 

With Purdy's success and Trey Lance in the wings, Jimmy G will be a FA, no doubt. He will be the perfect bridge QB but by the time he is injured in a season (it is not a question of IF, just WHEN ), hopefully our rookie QB can be thrown into the fire then.

[MikeCurtis]

1 minute ago, richard pallo said:

I don’t think Carr will be a backup anywhere.  He will start somewhere.  Miami, Tennessee, Washington, New Orleans quickly come to mind.

I agree 100%

 

He is a starter with 3-5 years left

 

I dont want the guy here......  We have done the "bring the vet in approach" 3 times now 

Been there, done that ..... Have the T Shirt

 

Let get a rookie going, and bring in a second teir QB to be backup

[Nickster]

4 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

go tell WASH fans that Wentz isn't turnover prone. 

 

And I've debated this 50x on here.  With us, it wasn't about the number of turnovers.  It was always about the situation in which the turnover occured. 

Meh selective memory.  I don't think he's been particularly great in crunch time the last 2 years put he was NOT TO prone for us.  That's just feeling with no basis in fact.

 

Matt Ryan has been a TO prone QB for about 5 or 6 years now.  but alot of people "felt" like he wasn't .

 

Wentz has issues as a QB but has not been a particularly TO prone guy. There really is no debate statistically.  It's just feelings.

 

This year, well he's on his way out.  But when he played with us he was not TO prone and hadn't been except his rookie year which everyone accepts growing pains and 2020.  He had 7 Ints in 4 different seasons 

 

[ADnum1]

6 minutes ago, Nickster said:

meh.  10 Ints v. SEC talent for a traditional doormat team doesn't scare me in and of itself.  But like I've said.  I have never seen him play. 

 

What are you talking about with Wentz?  He only threw 7 INTs for us.  He was not TO prone.  He had a couple memorable ones, but he wasn't a TO prone NFL QB.  He had a bad year in a down year for PHI in 2020.  TOs were not a major issue overall for Wentz throughout his career. 

This is a deceiving stat.

 

Wentz only threw for 3500 yards that season.  There were games where Wentz only threw the ball 5 times a game.  Frank lost confidence in him.

 

If Wentz threw it more, he would have thrown alot more picks.

[JColts72]

13 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

This Oline will be fixed this off season.

How?