Does anybody still miss Carson?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Ryan gets criticized every week here and rightfully so.  I will say a lot of Wentz issues were self inflicted where as I think most of Ryan’s issues will go away with better line play.  Still, rather that’s true or not Ryan is still making costly mistakes whatever the cause so he’s being criticized for it.  I mean every week people are calling for Sam or Foles to start over him so if you don’t think Ryan is taking heat you aren’t reading the forum.

I hear a lot of excuses for him. If Wentz was here doing what Ryan is doing there  wouldn’t be all the excuses. Everyone would be blaming him for the oline and everything else. But I will say media is actually starting  to question if he was the right choice. Which I am glad to see. 

[AwesomeAustin]

I think Ryan and Wentz are both equally not the guy to lead this team. Ryan has a chance to change that….will he?  Quite possibly and will keep watching to find out. The entire offense is struggling from poor QB and OL play but I think it could get better. But to answer the OP question…no, I don’t want Wentz and I was on board bringing him back for another year. 

[GoColts8818]

Just now, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

I hear a lot of excuses for him. If Wentz was here doing what Ryan is doing there  wouldn’t be all the excuses. Everyone would be blaming him for the oline and everything else. But I will say media is actually starting  to question if he was the right choice. Which I am glad to see. 

I don’t think so.  People are pretty smart here.  The line problem is easy to see because it’s an issue in more than the passing game.  They can’t run block either so the whole offense is bogged down.  Ryan does have somethings to clean up too beyond just the line but if that’s fixed I think you aren’t just going to see his play improve you are going to see the run game and then the offense in general take off.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

15 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

It’s just funny to me how Wendy is a punching bag and people refuse to go after Ryan got playing ten times worse.

I hope I am able to change my mind. This team is no fun to watch on offense. But until I see improvement I will continue to feel this way. 

Fair enough.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

I hear a lot of excuses for him. If Wentz was here doing what Ryan is doing there  wouldn’t be all the excuses. Everyone would be blaming him for the oline and everything else. But I will say media is actually starting  to question if he was the right choice. Which I am glad to see. 

We beat Denver without Taylor, Hines, and Leonard. Do you actually think Wentz would have done that? We had no business winning Thursday and we still won.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

One thing just observing games toddy  is the colts look very slow. Which is weird because they have speed. Maybe players just thinking yo much. Maybe Ryan trying to do much? Next two weeks are probably going to make or break our season.

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We beat Denver without Taylor, Hines, and Leonard. Do you actually think Wentz would have done that? We had no business winning Thursday and we still won.

We were missing a lot more when we best AZ last season. Including the entire oline.

[2006Coltsbestever]

@PRnum1I will admit, Rivers so far was the better QB over Matt - maybe it is the system but I am huge Rivers fan anyway - he is a Hall of Famer as well like Matt is IMO. Still a ways to go though.

 

But I get a kick out of some saying Wentz was better than Matt. Nah, not buying that. I have seen Wentz puke too many times. He puked today  

[AKB]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

@PRnum1I will admit, Rivers so far was the better QB over Matt - maybe it is the system but I am huge Rivers fan anyway - he is a Hall of Famer as well like Matt is IMO. Still a ways to go though.

 

But I get a kick out of some saying Wentz was better than Matt. Nah, not buying that. I have seen Wentz puke too may times. He puked today  

Noodle Arm Rivers has been the best so far post Andrew. I think his ability to throw to the running back really worked wonders in this scheme compared to everyone else who is intent on ignoring 5 yard passses to the RBs. 

[w87r]

6 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

It’s just funny to me how Wendy is a punching bag and people refuse to go after Ryan got playing ten times worse.

what quantifies 10x worse?

 

6ints 4 drives ended by fumble for Wentz

7ints 7 drives ended by fumble for Ryan

 

Wentz 1-4

Ryan 2-2-1 

 

25 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

His completion percentage and stuff doesn’t matter when your giving the ball away 4 times a game

So sick of seeing this incorrect statistic.

 

Everyone that post it, knows it isn't true,  but keep posting it anyway. 

 

7 ints 3 fumbles lost = 10 turnovers/5 games = 2 turnovers a game.

 

Even if you add drives that weren't extended after fumble(4) it's less than 3 "give aways" a game.

 

Still not good, but what it is. Certainly isn't 4

 

Here is his fumble retained breakdown:

1. Jags fumble retained - 2nd down - drive didn't extend

2. 1st Texans fumble retained - 2nd down- drive didn't extend

3. 2nd Texans fumble retained - 2nd down - drive didn't extend

4. 3rd Texans fumble retained - 1st down - extended drive afterward

5. Chiefs fumble retained - 4th and 1, being sacked(inconsequential)

6. Titans fumble retained - 2nd 12 sack - drive not extended

7. 1st Broncos fumble retained - 1st down - FG before half

8. 2nd Broncos fumble retained - 1st down - drive extended and FG at end

 

And (2) of Ryan's interceptions happened down 24-0 5: left in game and less. These (2) didn't mean anything. Game was over just trying to make something happen.

 

And (2) of Ryan's interceptions were just great play by DL. 

 

 

Bottomline it's been ugly. We are 2-2-1 though.

 

I've seen you post today many times your optimism about being 2-2-1 and having time to turn it around.

 

Then in other threads you are trashing them saying the "show you".

 

 

Glass half full/ half empty thread is literally made for you.

[ADnum1]

19 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It's not about being fun, it is about winning.

Let's not forget that if Pierce doesn't drop that pass in the end zone against Houston or Hot Rod makes that easy kick, Colts would be 3-2 now

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, w87r said:

what quantifies 10x worse?

 

6ints 4 drives ended by fumble for Wentz

7ints 7 drives ended by fumble for Ryan

 

Wentz 1-4

Ryan 2-2-1 

 

So sick of seeing this incorrect statistic.

 

Everyone that post it, knows it isn't true,  but keep posting it anyway. 

 

7 ints 3 fumbles lost = 10 turnovers/5 games = 2 turnovers a game.

 

Even if you add drives that weren't extended after fumble(4) it's less than 3 "give aways" a game.

 

Still not good, but what it is. Certainly isn't 4

 

Here is his fumble retained breakdown:

1. Jags fumble retained - 2nd down - drive didn't extend

2. 1st Texans fumble retained - 2nd down- drive didn't extend

3. 2nd Texans fumble retained - 2nd down - drive didn't extend

4. 3rd Texans fumble retained - 1st down - extended drive afterward

5. Chiefs fumble retained - 4th and 1, being sacked(inconsequential)

6. Titans fumble retained - 2nd 12 sack - drive not extended

7. 1st Broncos fumble retained - 1st down - FG before half

8. 2nd Broncos fumble retained - 1st down - drive extended and FG at end

 

And (2) of Ryan's interceptions happened down 24-0 5: left in game and less. These (2) didn't mean anything. Game was over just trying to make something happen.

 

And (2) of Ryan's interceptions were just great play by DL. 

 

 

Bottomline it's been ugly. We are 2-2-1 though.

 

I've seen you post today many times your optimism about being 2-2-1 and having time to turn it around.

 

Then in other threads you are trashing them saying the "show you".

 

 

Glass half full/ half empty thread is literally made for you.

It’s still bad. That isn’t even including the fumbles he didn’t lose. 2 last week that stopped  drive and two INT.

[GoColts8818]

5 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

One thing just observing games toddy  is the colts look very slow. Which is weird because they have speed. Maybe players just thinking yo much. Maybe Ryan trying to do much? Next two weeks are probably going to make or break our season.

We were missing a lot more when we best AZ last season. Including the entire oline.

The thinking too much thing was something Romo pointed out in the KC game.  I could see it after Romo pointed it out.  Ryan has to take an extra beat when doing something and that throws the whole timing off.  I don’t think that’s all that’s wrong with the offense but I do think it’s a factor.  All and all you have four major problems with the offense:

 

1.  Ryan still isn’t comfortable and thinking too much

2.  The line is not playing well

3.  These receivers aren’t the best at getting open

4.  Regardless of the above they have to stop shooting themselves with mistakes rather it’s a penalty, turnovers, or doing the wrong thing on plays leading to mistakes.  
 

There is also the questionable play calling, we are five games in and I don’t think Frank has called one run to the outside yet is one example.  So I guess if you add play calling it’s five issues.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, AustinnKaine said:

Noodle Arm Rivers has been the best so far post Andrew. I think his ability to throw to the running back really worked wonders in this scheme compared to everyone else who is intent on ignoring 5 yard passses to the RBs. 

If I had to rank our QB's since 2018 and I know we had a thread regarding this, it would be:

 

1. Luck

2. Rivers

3. Matt

4. Wentz

5. JB

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Then when he isn’t losing fumbles  he is taking sacks that lose a ton of yards. Just go down or throw it away.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

Let's not forget that if Pierce doesn't drop that pass in the end zone against Houston or Hot Rod makes that easy kick, Colts would be 3-2 now

Yeah we should be 3-2 you are right. These next 2 weeks are huge for this fan base.

[w87r]

5 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

It’s still bad. That isn’t even including the fumbles he didn’t lose. 2 last week that stopped  drive and two INT.

lol did you even read the post?

 

It literally included a breakdown of all fumbles we retained, and what happened on the drive after.

 

 

To top that off it list the 2 fumbles from the Broncos game, which were both extended and points were put on the board.

 

 

For real bad look for you on this post. Literally gave you all the info and you didn't even read it. Just recited your weak talking points.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

The thinking too much thing was something Romo pointed out in the KC game.  I could see it after Romo pointed it out.  Ryan has to take an extra beat when doing something and that throws the whole timing off.  I don’t think that’s all that’s wrong with the offense but I do think it’s a factor.  All and all you have four major problems with the offense:

 

1.  Ryan still isn’t comfortable and thinking too much

2.  The line is not playing well

3.  These receivers aren’t the best at getting open

4.  Regardless of the above they have to stop shooting themselves with mistakes rather it’s a penalty, turnovers, or doing the wrong thing on plays leading to mistakes.  
 

There is also the questionable play calling, we are five games in and I don’t think Frank has called one run to the outside yet is one example.  So I guess if you add play calling it’s five issues.

Have you seen the stats for separation? Campbell and Granson are both top ten.  Granson is 5 Campbell is 9. Pierce had the lowest which is understandable because of the routes  he is running right now. But he is starting to more routes. Maybe Campbell needs to get some more quicker routes instead of longer developing ones because of the oline. 

[AKB]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If I had to rank our QB's since 2018 and I know we had a thread regarding this, it would be:

 

1. Luck

2. Rivers

3. Matt

4. Wentz

5. JB

 

Wentz and JB are closer in talent than you think. 

[GoColts8818]

Just now, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Have you seen the stats for separation? Campbell and Granson are both top ten.  Granson is 5 Campbell is 9. Pierce had the lowest which is understandable because of the routes  he is running right now. But he is starting to more routes. Maybe Campbell needs to get some more quicker routes instead of longer developing ones because of the oline. 

Stats are misleading.  How many times do you see Ryan standing there holding the ball looking for ANYONE to be open to throw to?  This happened several times vs Denver leading to sacks until later in the game Ryan started to the force the ball to Alec because he trusts him.  Also not being the best at getting separation doesn’t mean they never get it.  It means they struggled to do it regularly which they do.  

[AKB]

Just now, GoColts8818 said:

Stats are misleading.  How many times do you see Ryan standing there holding the ball looking for ANYONE to be open to throw to?  This happened several times vs Denver leading to sacks until later in the game Ryan started to the force the ball to Alec because he trusts him.  Also not being the best at getting separation doesn’t mean they never get it.  It means they struggled to do it regularly which they do.  

i think sacks can have an affect on a QB and the speed they go through their progressions

[ADnum1]

13 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

Noodle Arm Rivers has been the best so far post Andrew. I think his ability to throw to the running back really worked wonders in this scheme compared to everyone else who is intent on ignoring 5 yard passses to the RBs. 

It means alot to me to hear you say that

[2006Coltsbestever]

18 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

One thing just observing games toddy  is the colts look very slow. Which is weird because they have speed. Maybe players just thinking yo much. Maybe Ryan trying to do much? Next two weeks are probably going to make or break our season.

We were missing a lot more when we best AZ last season. Including the entire oline.

That was Wentz best win other than the NE game IMO, but our D was healthy and Taylor played. If Taylor is out I would rarely expect a win and we beat MR. Unlimited at his place.

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, AustinnKaine said:

 

Wentz and JB are closer in talent than you think. 

I was actually thinking it was a toss up between them.  You want to talk about a QB who the forum was overly unfair to it was Jacoby.  I am not saying Jacoby was more than a backup but he was a far cry from Curtis Painter like some like to pretend he was.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

Stats are misleading.  How many times do you see Ryan standing there holding the ball looking for ANYONE to be open to throw to?  This happened several times vs Denver leading to sacks until later in the game Ryan started to the force the ball to Alec because he trusts him.  Also not being the best at getting separation doesn’t mean they never get it.  It means they struggled to do it regularly which they do.  

Or Ryan just isn’t very good. Doesn’t trust what he is seeing and doesn’t have time. It’s all bad. Until we get better oline and QB play we are going to continue to be bad. The point is the excuse colts can’t get separation just isn’t true. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

 

Wentz and JB are closer in talent than you think. 

I always defended JB but Wentz did put up decent numbers last year and had us at 9-6. JB is one best backups ever IMO, he just isn't a starter and I am starting to believe Wentz may not be either. Matt is definitely a guy that still has it, it is early. I do miss Rivers, many did not like him because of the rivalry we had with him when Peyton was here. Rivers was a great QB in his career. I have him and Matt in my Top 25 ever, 21-25 in that area.

[GoColts8818]

2 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Or Ryan just isn’t very good. Doesn’t trust what he is seeing and doesn’t have time. It’s all bad. Until we get better oline and QB play we are going to continue to be bad. The point is the excuse colts can’t get separation just isn’t true. 

Let’s see what’s more likely a former league MVP just isn’t very good or unproven WRs aren’t great at getting open?  I go with option B even if the former league MVP has declined.  You can watch the tape and see it.  These guys are inconsistent about getting open which is to be expected with young WRs.  
 

I will say this, the one thing that has been true is when Ryan has had time he’s been able to find guys and move the ball down the field.  If he can get that regularly plus a running game I do think you are going to see the offense take off.  By far the biggest issue with the Colts offense is the line play.  Almost every other problem can be traced back to that.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Or Ryan just isn’t very good. Doesn’t trust what he is seeing and doesn’t have time. It’s all bad. Until we get better oline and QB play we are going to continue to be bad. The point is the excuse colts can’t get separation just isn’t true. 

Matt is good, just give it time. I called talk show radio up last night because the host said Matt Ryan sucks and the Jags would win the division. Once I talked to him, he said ok Matt is a good game manager but not once what he was. Also the Jags lost today to the Texans at home, see how overreactions can back fire. 

[AwesomeAustin]

31 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We beat Denver without Taylor, Hines, and Leonard. Do you actually think Wentz would have done that? We had no business winning Thursday and we still won.

We also beat Arizona with all back ups but one on the OL with Wentz.  They were a playoff team. Hard to say what would happen with Wentz in there so won’t try to speculate. Beating Denver was a good win for this team. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, AwesomeAustin said:

We also beat Arizona with all back ups but one on the OL with Wentz.  They were a playoff team. Hard to say what would happen with Wentz in there so won’t try to speculate. Beating Denver was a good win for this team. 

True but we had Taylor.

[AKB]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I always defended JB but Wentz did put up decent numbers last year and had us at 9-6. JB is one best backups ever IMO, he just isn't a starter and I am starting to believe Wentz may not be either. Matt is definitely a guy that still has it, it is early. I do miss Rivers, many did not like him because of the rivalry we had with him when Peyton was here. Rivers was a great QB in his career. I have him and Matt in my Top 25 ever, 21-25 in that area.

theyre both playing as starters right now, and its basically the same. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, AustinnKaine said:

theyre both playing as starters right now, and its basically the same. 

Good point, JB has been just as good.

[Malakai432]

Ehhh, not really but I’m not really impressed by Ryan.  That being said the OL is garbage.  He’d probably look good with a top 10 passing OL but I doubt the Colts are getting anywhere near that level this year barring a miracle.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Matt is good, just give it time. I called talk show radio up last night because the host said Matt Ryan sucks and the Jags would win the division. Once I talked to him, he said ok Matt is a good game manager but not once what he was. Also the Jags lost today to the Texans at home, see how overreactions can back fire. 

Don’t you think we should be seeing improvement by now? That’s why it’s hard to think that there is a fix for this. Matt is also holding the ball way to long.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Don’t you think we should be seeing improvement by now? That’s why it’s hard to think that there is a fix for this. Matt is also holding the ball way to long.

The next 2 weeks will show me a lot. If we lose those than I will eat my crow. I think we win our next 5 games, bold but beautiful 

[Zoltan]

To be honest, I would totally take a 2nd year of Wentz over this year with Ryan. Ryan has more interceptions right now than Wentz all last season and while Wentz did have the occasional dumb decision he didn’t turn it over as often as Ryan has. 

[aReggie7]

Do I miss Carson Wentz? My god NO. Not even the slightest.That dude was everything Philly said he was and none of it I want to see in a Colts QB. I was happy to roll the dice on another QB, I didn't care if it was Mariota or Winston, vs rolling out Wentz for another roller coaster second year. I don't want continuity for the sake of continuity. 

 

I don't care about his highlight reel and cherry picking his best plays. He rolled into Indy from Philly with doubts and red flags and he left with them.

 

Dragging Matt Ryan into this is like turning this into a Ryan Grigson vs Chuck Pagano discussion. Sometimes NO is the answer to 2 questions. No need to make it more complicated when it's not. 

[Orioles22]

I was listening to the game when it looked like Washington was about to win, thinking he is playing a little better than Ryan to this point.

Then there were the last three passes, capped by the interception, and remembered....

I hated the idea of drafting a quarterback just to draft a quarterback, but now I think we have to go all in and find a quarterback in the draft, including a package of draft picks and players to make it happen.

[GoColts8818]

2 minutes ago, Orioles22 said:

I was listening to the game when it looked like Washington was about to win, thinking he is playing a little better than Ryan to this point.

Then there were the last three passes, capped by the interception, and remembered....

I hated the idea of drafting a quarterback just to draft a quarterback, but now I think we have to go all in and find a quarterback in the draft, including a package of draft picks and players to make it happen.

The two plays on that drive that got me were when he just flipped the ball up for grabs to avoid a sack and the near pick when he was throwing the ball away.  
 

The first one worked out for the commanders but how many times did we see that end in a turnover for the Colts?

 

The second was just because he didn’t put enough on it.  He wasn’t under pressure it was just a bad throw.  
 

Those the little things he does or doesn’t do that don’t show up in box scores that drives football people nuts.  

[GoColts8818]

16 minutes ago, aReggie7 said:

Do I miss Carson Wentz? My god NO. Not even the slightest.That dude was everything Philly said he was and none of it I want to see in a Colts QB. I was happy to roll the dice on another QB, I didn't care if it was Mariota or Winston, vs rolling out Wentz for another roller coaster second year. I don't want continuity for the sake of continuity. 

 

I don't care about his highlight reel and cherry picking his best plays. He rolled into Indy from Philly with doubts and red flags and he left with them.

 

Dragging Matt Ryan into this is like turning this into a Ryan Grigson vs Chuck Pagano discussion. Sometimes NO is the answer to 2 questions. No need to make it more complicated when it's not. 

Yeah the well Ryan sucks so Wentz is better argument doesn’t pass the sniff test.  
 

Wentz not being the answer had nothing to do with Matt Ryan.  It had everything to do with Wentz.  When you decide someone isn’t the answer you don’t just keep them because.  You move on from them and try to find the answer.  
 

The Colts attempt this year was Matt Ryan.  He’s struggled way more than anyone anticipated at this point.  So it might mean he’s not the answer either.  That doesn’t mean the Colts made the wrong decision to move on from Wentz.  That was still the right call.  What it will mean if he’s not the answer is that the Colts got the replacement answer wrong.  Which is a different problem.  The two arent tied together.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Yeah the well Ryan sucks so Wentz is better argument doesn’t pass the sniff test.  
 

Wentz not being the answer had nothing to do with Matt Ryan.  It had everything to do with Wentz.  When you decide someone isn’t the answer you don’t just keep them because.  You move on from them and try to find the answer.  
 

The Colts attempt this year was Matt Ryan.  He’s struggled way more than anyone anticipated at this point.  So it might mean he’s not the answer either.  That doesn’t mean the Colts made the wrong decision to move on from Wentz.  That was still the right call.  What it will mean if he’s not the answer is that the Colts got the replacement answer wrong.  Which is a different problem.  The two arent tied together.

I think we will be ok, when Wentz was here I sniffed skunk. Matt will get better IMO.