Polian: The first 5 Years

[csmopar]

Ballard sucks right? That’s what most of you posting tonight are claiming. Fire him, fire Reich etc. everyone wants to compare him to Grigson but let’s compare him to the Hof GM before that. A GM that every pretty much agrees was pretty darn good until he let his son get involved.

 

Let’s compare:

 

Bill Polin’s first 5 seasons with the Colts with Chris Ballard’s.

# of head Coaches: 2

# of Starting regular season QBs: 2

record: overall 35-45

 

Chris Ballard:

# of head coaches: 2

# of starting QBs: 6

record: overall 32-35(season still in progress)

 

The fact he’s only 3 wins behind a Hall of Fame GM in the same allotted time with only 1 game Into that 5th season with 6, I repeat 6 different starting QBs while Polian had the GOAT at QB for his first 5 seasons, throws this entire argument out the window!

[GoColts8818]

Bill Polian had Peyton Manning.  This Colts team doesn’t.  The comparisons really end there.  Also Polian only had one starting QB in his first five years.  Polian also had a Hall of Fame WR and drafted another one at running back plus Wayne, Mathis, and Freeney who could all go to the hall.  This team doesn’t have near that talent.

[csmopar]

4 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Bill Polian had Peyton Manning.  This Colts team doesn’t.  The comparisons really end there.  Also Polian only had one starting QB in his first five years.  Polian also had a Hall of Fame WR and drafted another one at running back plus Wayne, Mathis, and Freeney who could all go to the hall.  This team doesn’t have near that talent.

Jim Harbaugh in 1997.

 

and yes, that’s my point entirely. Polian clearly had better talent in hindsight but let’s be real, Wayne, Freeney and Mathis hadn’t fully become the players in year 5 that they would end up being. Polian only had 3 more wins at the end of season 5 than Ballard has at the beginning... since everyone wants to throw out w/l records as a measure of success, it’s pretty darn spot on to make that comparison 

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

Jim Harbaugh in 1997.

 

and yes, that’s my point entirely. Polian clearly had better talent yet only had 3 more wins at the end of season 5 than Ballard has at the beginning...

Polian didn’t come into until 98.  Tobin ran the 97 team and then Jim Irsay cleaned house of everyone.  

 

Heres the thing you could see Polian’s teams were set up for success with the level of talent they had.  Do you feel that way now?

[jshipp23]

Grigson makes them both look bad on that stat..lol..Ozzie Newsome is the benchmark..Ravens are always good regardless..In an off year they r 8-8..I love the RAMS GM as well seems super aggressive trying to win and hired McVeigh..Same with Sean Payton with Saints they always empty the barrell trying to win , and are always in the hunt...

[jshipp23]

1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

Polian didn’t come into until 98.

 

Heres the thing you could see Polian’s teams were set up for success with the level of talent they had.  Do you feel that way now?

Lots of hall of famers...Do we have any other than Nelson? And Nelson starting to have injury problems already

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, jshipp23 said:

Grigson makes them both look bad on that stat..lol..Ozzie Newsome is the benchmark..Raven are always good regardless..In an off year they r 8-8

Ryan shouldn’t you be trying to get another job than trolling the Colts message board?

[csmopar]

2 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Polian didn’t come into until 98.  Tobin ran the 97 team and then Jim Irsay cleaned house of everyone.  

 

Heres the thing you could see Polian’s teams were set up for success with the level of talent they had.  Do you feel that way now?

You’re right, Jim in 1998. Still 1-2 QB is less than 6, soon to be 7

[ruf]

the problem is: we don't have a pass rush-- we have 5 2nd round picks Lewis and Turay need to be let go after this year---Ben B we still have another cheap year

Dayo and Paye we keep to see But we need to get a FA difference maker DE this will help the DB

 

we also need a MLB that can start alongside of Leonard-- Okereke can be used at SAM to help cover TE's

[jshipp23]

3 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Ryan shouldn’t you be trying to get another job than trolling the Colts message board?

Im no fan of Grigson but he did legit have us in hunt at least..This right now is sad

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, ruf said:

the problem is: we don't have a pass rush-- we have 5 2nd round picks Lewis and Turay need to be let go after this year---Ben B we still have another cheap year

Dayo and Paye we keep to see But we need to get a FA difference maker DE this will help the DB

 

we also need a MLB that can start alongside of Leonard-- Okereke can be used at SAM to help cover TE's

Sometimes it takes time. I think Paye will end up being the best DE we’ve had since Mathis. Lewis and Turay can go. But I still think it’s more scheme issues than talent

2 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Im no fan of Grigson

[ruf]

did turay and  ben even play today--if so did they get any kind of pressure 

 

[csmopar]

2 minutes ago, ruf said:

did turay and  ben even play today--if so did they get any kind of pressure 

 

From the sounds of it, the most pressure put on anyone was the bench when they were sitting on it

[ruf]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

From the sounds of it, the most pressure put on anyone was the bench when they were sitting on it

lol

[MCurtis32]

26 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Ballard sucks right? That’s what most of you posting tonight are claiming. Fire him, fire Reich etc. everyone wants to compare him to Grigson but let’s compare him to the Hof GM before that. A GM that every pretty much agrees was pretty darn good until he let his son get involved.

 

Let’s compare:

 

Bill Polin’s first 5 seasons with the Colts with Chris Ballard’s.

# of head Coaches: 2

# of Starting regular season QBs: 2

record: overall 35-45

 

Chris Ballard:

# of head coaches: 2

# of starting QBs: 6

record: overall 32-35(season still in progress)

 

The fact he’s only 3 wins behind a Hall of Fame GM in the same allotted time with only 1 game Into that 5th season with 6, I repeat 6 different starting QBs while Polian had the GOAT at QB for his first 5 seasons, throws this entire argument out the window!

After the first five seasons, the team was built to win 11 or better games a year for the next 10 years. Ballard's next 10 years most likely will never happen due to a lack of talent brought in which will facilitate his departure in the next 2 or 3 years.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

Ballard sucks right? That’s what most of you posting tonight are claiming. Fire him, fire Reich etc. everyone wants to compare him to Grigson but let’s compare him to the Hof GM before that. A GM that every pretty much agrees was pretty darn good until he let his son get involved.

 

Let’s compare:

 

Bill Polin’s first 5 seasons with the Colts with Chris Ballard’s.

# of head Coaches: 2

# of Starting regular season QBs: 2

record: overall 35-45

 

Chris Ballard:

# of head coaches: 2

# of starting QBs: 6

record: overall 32-35(season still in progress)

 

The fact he’s only 3 wins behind a Hall of Fame GM in the same allotted time with only 1 game Into that 5th season with 6, I repeat 6 different starting QBs while Polian had the GOAT at QB for his first 5 seasons, throws this entire argument out the window!

Polian had already proven to be a good NFL executive.  He went to 4 SBs with the Bills.  He earned the leeway his first 5 years.

[krunk]

1 hour ago, jshipp23 said:

Im no fan of Grigson but he did legit have us in hunt at least..This right now is sad

Take away Luck and that sorry AFC South which gave us virtually guaranteed wins every year and it doesnt happen. The bones of Grigsons team were very shaky personnel wise.

[csmopar]

8 hours ago, DougDew said:

Polian had already proven to be a good NFL executive.  He went to 4 SBs with the Bills.  He earned the leeway his first 5 years.

True

[bluephantom87]

10 hours ago, csmopar said:

You’re right, Jim in 1998. Still 1-2 QB is less than 6, soon to be 7

 

True but that also falls on Ballard. He's been here MORE than long enough to keep using the Luck excuse. 

 

The Cardinals just a few years back picked Josh Rosen (who was supposed to be Brady like) in the TOP TEN of the quoted "new" year of the qb draft. They also paired him with a new first time hc and JETTISONED both the following season. Was not popular at the time by most in the media but I guarantee the gm has not thought twice about making that move to draft Murray and hire Kingsbury because the Cards are on the rise with a young dynamic team ESPECIALLY on offense!

 

Sometimes you have to go with the eye test.

[coming on strong]

11 hours ago, jshipp23 said:

Im no fan of Grigson but he did legit have us in hunt at least..This right now is sad

Big schedule difference look at the first three seasons we had 6 easy games in our division. Then add in playing the nfc east nfc north and afc east those years 11 easy games a year . Luck carried those teams we would even got blown out by 3 win teams by 30 points those years remember the rams and cardinal games .

[csmopar]

2 hours ago, bluephantom87 said:

 

True but that also falls on Ballard. He's been here MORE than long enough to keep using the Luck excuse. 

 

The Cardinals just a few years back picked Josh Rosen (who was supposed to be Brady like) in the TOP TEN of the quoted "new" year of the qb draft. They also paired him with a new first time hc and JETTISONED both the following season. Was not popular at the time by most in the media but I guarantee the gm has not thought twice about making that move to draft Murray and hire Kingsbury because the Cards are on the rise with a young dynamic team ESPECIALLY on offense!

 

Sometimes you have to go with the eye test.

This true to a point. What moves at QB could he have realistically done? other than FA or trades?

 

now, if we got 0-5 or worse and they keep playing Wentz, then yeah, I will move towards questioning Ballards thinking. If we by default are in position for a top 5 pick and Wentz is still kind of hobbling, I’d IR him, get him heathy, and get our 1 back.
 

 

[BlackTiger]

13 hours ago, ruf said:

did turay and  ben even play today--if so did they get any kind of pressure 

 

Turay did play i saw him on the field. He doesnt have a tackle yet this year over two games played, i think he got a decent amount of snaps with paye out 

[Flash7]

12 hours ago, DougDew said:

Polian had already proven to be a good NFL executive.  He went to 4 SBs with the Bills.  He earned the leeway his first 5 years.

Yup. Notice that we’re not comparing Poilian’s first 5 years as a GM to Ballards first 5 years. Rather, selectively we’re comparing Polian’s first 5 years as the Colts GM, which isn’t necessarily the reason he’s in the hall of fame. It discounts his previous work with the Bills and Panthers, which was amazing.
 

It’s like comparing Lebron to Michael Jordan when he was with the Wizards and then coming to the conclusion that Lebron was just as good.

[DougDew]

14 hours ago, jshipp23 said:

Im no fan of Grigson but he did legit have us in hunt at least..This right now is sad

Grigson inherited 43 zone defensive players and quickly built a 34 man defense that was decently playoff caliber (IIRC, BALT beat us that wildcard game by Flacco chucking a couple of long bombs where the defender was in position to make the play but didn't (not wide open)).

 

Grigson used what cap space there was right up to the limit to get a competitive defense right away instead of building through the draft, which takes time.

 

Ballard also got a decent defense by signing FA vet players.  And, like Grigson, once those players rolled off, the drafted players don't seem to be able to carry the torch.

 

BTW, TJ Green plays a decent amount of snaps at cornerback for the Falcons and grades out pretty well.  A tall, zone corner.

[NannyMcafee]

I really dont think Ballard is an issue but frank is becoming a large concern. If the Colts keep losing I dont see how Frank keeps his job (unless Brady has been the one calling plays). You go from a couple of bone head games per year to 3 so far this season. 

 

Im not one who thinks this team is void of talent. This is a really talented team that needs a couple more playmakers on each side of the ball. Hoping Kwitty and Dayo actually make an impact because that would really help this defense that relies mostly on pass rush to be successful. If they actually turn out to be really good, I think the defense really isn't that far off. 

 

Offense we need a WR dearly. 

 

Eagles are probably stoked to see Wentz continue playing while the Colts continue losing. What a good situation for them. 

 

 

[NannyMcafee]

2 hours ago, Flash7 said:

Yup. Notice that we’re not comparing Poilian’s first 5 years as a GM to Ballards first 5 years. Rather, selectively we’re comparing Polian’s first 5 years as the Colts GM, which isn’t necessarily the reason he’s in the hall of fame. It discounts his previous work with the Bills and Panthers, which was amazing.
 

It’s like comparing Lebron to Michael Jordan when he was with the Wizards and then coming to the conclusion that Lebron was just as good.

 

I made a thread not too long ago comparing Polians actual first years as a GM and he didn't reach a SB for over 9 years if I remember correctly. 

[Flash7]

From Wikipedia: "Polian was promoted to GM in 1986. While GM of the Bills, Polian won the NFL Executive of the Year Award twice, in 1988 and in 1991. After the 1992 season, on February 4, 1993, after the Bills had appeared in, and lost, their 3rd straight Super Bowl, Polian was fired as general manager.

 

If this is factual, then in his first 5 years, he won executive of the year twice, and made a Super Bowl appearance. (1991 Giants vs. Bills).

[NannyMcafee]

3 hours ago, Flash7 said:

From Wikipedia: "Polian was promoted to GM in 1986. While GM of the Bills, Polian won the NFL Executive of the Year Award twice, in 1988 and in 1991. After the 1992 season, on February 4, 1993, after the Bills had appeared in, and lost, their 3rd straight Super Bowl, Polian was fired as general manager.

 

If this is factual, then in his first 5 years, he won executive of the year twice, and made a Super Bowl appearance. (1991 Giants vs. Bills).

 

Ok so I wasnt remembering correctly lol 

[Colt.45]

Ryan Grigson won GM of the year, remember?

 

Basically, until Ballard finds him a QB, he's going to be a footnote.

[NannyMcafee]

39 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

Ryan Grigson won GM of the year, remember?

 

Basically, until Ballard finds him a QB, he's going to be a footnote.

 

While Wentz has played tough hes not on the level of the likes of Peyton or Andrew like our previous GMs. 

 

Need some elite WRs on this team. It would go a long way. 

[Colt.45]

6 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

While Wentz has played tough hes not on the level of the likes of Peyton or Andrew like our previous GMs. 

 

Need some elite WRs on this team. It would go a long way. 

We don't know what Wentz is. Still don't. 

[NannyMcafee]

1 hour ago, Colt.45 said:

We don't know what Wentz is. Still don't. 

 

He may prove to play at that high of a level but so far he hasn't in his career. People may argue 2017 but its just that. An argument.