1070 Am Radio Show Trade Idea

[chad72]

The 1070 AM radio show hosts Michael Grady and Joe Staysniak were debating this idea:

A straight up trade of Matt Forte from the Bears for Dwight Freeney from the Colts.

What do you guys think of that???

[bavanlan]

The 1070 AM radio show hosts Michael Grady and Joe Staysniak were debating this idea:

A straight up trade of Matt Forte from the Bears for Dwight Freeney from the Colts.

What do you guys think of that???

I think we have an above-average chance of signing Freeney long-term and a 0% chance of doing it with Forte, so I think we'd get more productivity out of Freeney if we don't trade him than what we would get out of Forte if we do.

But Freeney to Chicgo makes A LOT of sense if he's getting moved.

[jtrester]

It makes some sense. Can you trade a franchise-tagged player? The Bears have tagged him. He is solid, but is he enough of an improvement over status quo? I think I would rather have draft picks.

[indynorth]

Matt Forte is great,and alot younger,why not?

[Thewholefnshow28]

Why could this not come next year when we will have a ton of dead money coming off the books.

Since we are converting to a 3-4 I would definitely trade Freeney straight up for Forte. The guy would be a beast for this team and would immediately make an impact in the running game that we have not seen since Edge left. He is a better blocker, better receiver, and runner then either Carter or Brown.

Sadly, I do not see how we could afford Forte this season so the answer to the question will be it will not happen.

[chad72]

Why could this not come next year when we will have a ton of dead money coming off the books.

Since we are converting to a 3-4 I would definitely trade Freeney straight up for Forte. The guy would be a beast for this team and would immediately make an impact in the running game that we have not seen since Edge left. He is a better blocker, better receiver, and runner then either Carter or Brown.

Sadly, I do not see how we could afford Forte this season so the answer to the question will be it will not happen.

It can only happen if the Bears are wiling to take the franchise tag off him and be willing to either extend him or trade him with us giving a long term contract. But first, they need to take the tag off him to open up trade talks. If we structure the contract once Freeney is off the books and Forte's cap hit is just $5 or $6 mil. this season, then we can have a double digit hit on the cap next year. Ultimately, it depends on whether the Bears want to take the tag off him.

[Wyld1]

Very interesting proposition indeed...

[oldunclemark]

It can only happen if the Bears are wiling to take the franchise tag off him and be willing to either extend him or trade him with us giving a long term contract. But first, they need to take the tag off him to open up trade talks. If we structure the contract once Freeney is off the books and Forte's cap hit is just $5 or $6 mil. this season, then we can have a double digit hit on the cap next year. Ultimately, it depends on whether the Bears want to take the tag off him.

Matt Forte isnt that much better than Donald Brown..

It just that the Bears empahsize the run and the Colts dont (or didnt)

Forte also wants a big contract. The Bears offered soemthing like $20 mil..$13 mil guaranteed for 3 years and he said no

Freeney with our No.2 to the Bears for their No.1 pick (No. 19...possibly Michael Floyd )?

There's an idea.

[MSColtsFan]

Forte is young, but has tons of mileage, is coming off back to back seasons with knee issues, and wants top RB money. No thanks. Two of his four years he doesn't reach 1000 yards. He averages just over 7 TDs a season. He will cost more than he will return in my opinion. I think RBs can be found in drafts, use them up when they're young, and find new ones. Getting a vet with knee history (left knee surgery after 2010 season, missed four games last year), tons of touches already, and huge salary demands, no thanks. I'd rather keep Freeney and find RBs in drafts.

[Smonroe]

Have to assume Forte is cheaper than Dwight, and has more productive years.

[Superman]

Matt Forte isnt that much better than Donald Brown..

It just that the Bears empahsize the run and the Colts dont (or didnt)

Forte also wants a big contract. The Bears offered soemthing like $20 mil..$13 mil guaranteed for 3 years and he said no

Freeney with our No.2 to the Bears for their No.1 pick (No. 19...possibly Michael Floyd )?

There's an idea.

Matt Forte is much better than Donald Brown. And I like Donald Brown. But Matt Forte is an elite back.

And if we traded Freeney for a one-year rental of Forte, we'd save almost $7 million against the cap, and we'd be due a compensatory pick for Forte if he decides to walk after 2012. It's better than keeping Freeney at $19 million for one year.

[Superman]

Sadly, I do not see how we could afford Forte this season so the answer to the question will be it will not happen.

Freeney's cap hit is his $5 million prorated bonus (already paid) plus his $14 million base salary = $19 million. If we trade him, we keep the $5 million prorated bonus as a dead cap hit.

Forte's franchise tag cap hit for 2012 is $7.7 million, so we'd actually be lowering our payroll by $6.3 million (14 minus 7.7), and the combined Freeney + Forte cap hit would be $12.7 (Freeney's dead cap hit of $5 million plus Forte's cap hit at $7.7 million).

So, yes, we could afford it, cap wise. Whether it's good money spent or not might be a different issue. I think we'd have to look at doing a multi-year deal with Forte, something like five years, $35 million. That could lower his cap hit for 2012, but it's a much bigger financial commitment for a running back, which I don't really believe in. I'd make an exception for one of the best backs in the NFL, only in his 5th season, if the numbers were right.

[chad72]

Forte also wants a big contract. The Bears offered soemthing like $20 mil..$13 mil guaranteed for 3 years and he said no

For his production to be on par with a lot of top 10 RBs and not being paid even close to a $8 mil. average is major lowballing, IMO. I would have said no too. A 4 yr. $32 mil. contract is on par with his stats, IMO (though not on par with the 5 yr. $53 mil. of CJ but is a good happy medium, IMO).

Wait a couple of years till the salary cap goes up to $140 mil. or something, then these contracts will seem like chump change w.r.t the best contracts around the league, that is why it is best to lock a few players this year or next year, IMO.

I would not be shocked if, they make amends to the new CBA for the RB position since the longevity is MUCH lower than other positions. Just like the rookie wage scale forces teams to pick up the 5th year salary option for 1st round pick players with the avg. of the top 10 at their positions, RBs picked in rounds 1 and 2 at least should have a similar one too for the 4th year of their contract, IMO, especially if they have outproduced several others because they are younger.

[Ryan Pelley]

My only question.... Why the heck would the Bears ever consider this trade?

[oldunclemark]

Matt Forte is much better than Donald Brown. And I like Donald Brown. But Matt Forte is an elite back.

And if we traded Freeney for a one-year rental of Forte, we'd save almost $7 million against the cap, and we'd be due a compensatory pick for Forte if he decides to walk after 2012. It's better than keeping Freeney at $19 million for one year.

That's the big debate in Chicago today.

To me, Matt Forte is NOT an elite back....and the position of RB is not that valauble in today's NFL

..Bears run.Colts pass.. until now....that's their core thought......Brown is better than you think he is and he's fine in a situatin where we're going to throw the ball a lot anyway..

Plus, Forte says he's in Chris Johnson category money-wise...we definetly wont keep him

and what's the logic in renting anybody at any position...

..we say we're rebuilding

[oldunclemark]

My only question.... Why the heck would the Bears ever consider this trade?

because Forte wants Chris Johnson's contact. He's said so.

the Bears know he's unhappy and gone soon and they replaced him Thursday......and they'd love Freeney

[MSColtsFan]

My only question.... Why the heck would the Bears ever consider this trade?

Because they know it's much harder to find an impact DE than it is to find an impact RB. Forte played at Tulane, not exactly RB-U, and was a second round pick. DE's who rack up the sacks Freeney has are much harder to find I think. Of course age and money impact this specific discussion, so that changes the dynamic.

[Ryan Pelley]

because Forte wants Chris Johnson's contact. He's said so.

the Bears know he's unhappy and gone soon and they replaced him Thursday......and they'd love Freeney

That's surprising that he's not going to get paid, considering how big a % of their offensive production he is. Sure, I wouldn't be complaining one bit if Forte landed here. I'd be pretty ecstatic.

[FireJimCaldwell]

In this day and age it's foolish to give any running back high-end money. A cheaper replacement can easily be found without a ton of drop off.

Forte is a great talent but not worth the $ he wants.

[Superman]

because Forte wants Chris Johnson's contact. He's said so.

the Bears know he's unhappy and gone soon and they replaced him Thursday......and they'd love Freeney

Breakdown of CJ's contract: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-full-chris-johnson-contract-breakdown/

Too rich, but the structure protects the team long-term, somewhat.

[oldunclemark]

In this day and age it's foolish to give any running back high-end money. A cheaper replacement can easily be found without a ton of drop off.

Forte is a great talent but not worth the $ he wants.

Listen to FJC.

Forte was also hurt at the end of last year.

We dont need to be handing out big paper to older (for an RB) talent

:stats: Just say 'no'..

[Superman]

In this day and age it's foolish to give any running back high-end money. A cheaper replacement can easily be found without a ton of drop off.

Forte is a great talent but not worth the $ he wants.

For a guy like Forte, if you can structure the contract without a lot of long-term guarantees, then the team is protected somewhat. But I normally agree with your stance. I'm not a fan of paying running backs or using high draft picks on them.

I just reconsidered, though, because Forte is threatening to hold out if he doesn't get a long-term deal.

[MSColtsFan]

In this day and age it's foolish to give any running back high-end money. A cheaper replacement can easily be found without a ton of drop off.

Forte is a great talent but not worth the $ he wants.

And that's the real reason - the NFL isn't a RB league any more. There are some stragglers, like the Bears, Vikings, but nearly all teams have gone away from featured back, 38% of the offense kind of players.

[FanFromtheWasteland]

No thanks. Too much cost. Besides I am willing to give Brown 1 more year to prove that he can actually be a solid RB for us. Though I don't know all the intimate details of playing a certain position, I for one thought he was improved last year over the year before. If we can get him some run blocking he should be able to turn the flashes that we saw last year into a more consistent shine.

[FireJimCaldwell]

For a guy like Forte, if you can structure the contract without a lot of long-term guarantees, then the team is protected somewhat. But I normally agree with your stance. I'm not a fan of paying running backs or using high draft picks on them.

I just reconsidered, though, because Forte is threatening to hold out if he doesn't get a long-term deal.

Take Trent Richardson for example. Great talent. Doesn't have the wear and tear that most rookie running backs have since he split time for most of his time at Alabama. I wouldn't want to spend a high pick on him.

He might be worth his rookie contract, but I wouldn't want to pay him after that ended. For the most part a late round pick could come and be as nearly productive on a passing team.

[Superman]

Take Trent Richardson for example. Great talent. Doesn't have the wear and tear that most rookie running backs have since he split time for most of his time at Alabama. I wouldn't want to spend a high pick on him.

He might be worth his rookie contract, but I wouldn't want to pay him after that ended. For the most part a late round pick could come and be as nearly productive on a passing team.

You have a measure of uncertainty with a draft pick. We're assuming Trent Richardson will be a good pro, but we assumed the same with Cedric Benson, and he never lived up to expectations. Certainly wasn't worth the pick he was taken with. If you take someone like Forte who you KNOW is an elite pro back, on a less risky contract, you'll get certain production from him. And there is some value in having an elite back as opposed to having a committee of average backs, especially when he's a weapon in the passing game like Forte is. Forte would be significantly better than a late round pick.

I mostly agree with you, and have been saying for several years now that the running back is losing value every year in the NFL. But there are a few transcendent backs that are worth a sizable commitment, and I might put Forte in that camp.

[MSColtsFan]

Take Trent Richardson for example. Great talent. Doesn't have the wear and tear that most rookie running backs have since he split time for most of his time at Alabama. I wouldn't want to spend a high pick on him.

He might be worth his rookie contract, but I wouldn't want to pay him after that ended. For the most part a late round pick could come and be as nearly productive on a passing team.

Look what the Saints did to get Ingram last year. A first in 2012, and a second last year to move to 28. And they got nothing out of him. For an offense built around Brees, I couldn't understand that move at all.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Look what the Saints did to get Ingram last year. A first in 2012, and a second last year to move to 28. And they got nothing out of him. For an offense built around Brees, I couldn't understand that move at all.

That was a head shaker for sure. Especially after signing Sproles. Sporles did an outstanding job with the Reggie Bush role, and that was a high price to pay for the production they got out of Ingram. Just didn't fit their offense that much.

You have a measure of uncertainty with a draft pick. We're assuming Trent Richardson will be a good pro, but we assumed the same with Cedric Benson, and he never lived up to expectations. Certainly wasn't worth the pick he was taken with. If you take someone like Forte who you KNOW is an elite pro back, on a less risky contract, you'll get certain production from him. And there is some value in having an elite back as opposed to having a committee of average backs, especially when he's a weapon in the passing game like Forte is. Forte would be significantly better than a late round pick.

I mostly agree with you, and have been saying for several years now that the running back is losing value every year in the NFL. But there are a few transcendent backs that are worth a sizable commitment, and I might put Forte in that camp.

There is uncertainty and Benson was better post-Chicago than he was with Chicago, but still not worth the draft pick. The Bears would be better off resigning Forte based on talent, but I'm not sure he or anyone is worth the Christ Johnson or Adrian Peterson type contracts. A top flight tight end is far more dynamic to an offense than a top flight running back.

A sizable commitment is one thing, but Chris Johnson's deal exceeded that in my opinion.

[LUVTHESHOE]

The 1070 AM radio show hosts Michael Grady and Joe Staysniak were debating this idea:

A straight up trade of Matt Forte from the Bears for Dwight Freeney from the Colts.

What do you guys think of that???

Is it done yet?In my opinion that is a no brainer!

[Superman]

That was a head shaker for sure. Especially after signing Sproles. Sporles did an outstanding job with the Reggie Bush role, and that was a high price to pay for the production they got out of Ingram. Just didn't fit their offense that much.

Excellent points on Ingram, which I said when they traded up for him.

There is uncertainty and Benson was better post-Chicago than he was with Chicago, but still not worth the draft pick. The Bears would be better off resigning Forte based on talent, but I'm not sure he or anyone is worth the Christ Johnson or Adrian Peterson type contracts. A top flight tight end is far more dynamic to an offense than a top flight running back.

A sizable commitment is one thing, but Chris Johnson's deal exceeded that in my opinion.

Chris Johnson's deal can be terminated and lessen the Titans burden at certain junctures, but yes, $56 million is too much. And AP's contract was even more money for a long time. Just dumb.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Excellent points on Ingram, which I said when they traded up for him.

Chris Johnson's deal can be terminated and lessen the Titans burden at certain junctures, but yes, $56 million is too much. And AP's contract was even more money for a long time. Just dumb.

Agreed, I was just using CJ as the example since that is the contract bar that has been reported as Forte's goal.

[chad72]

The Bears would be better off resigning Forte based on talent, but I'm not sure he or anyone is worth the Christ Johnson or Adrian Peterson type contracts. A top flight tight end is far more dynamic to an offense than a top flight running back.

A sizable commitment is one thing, but Chris Johnson's deal exceeded that in my opinion.

I dont think anyone here is proposing he be paid CJ or AP money, we know by now those deals are preposterous.

Something like Superman proposed, a 5 yr. $35-40 mil. (or 4 yr. $30 mil.) over the 3 yr. $20 mil. the Bears gave is definitely a happy medium we can make work. RBs picked in rounds 1 or 2 are picked there for a reason, Forte was a round 2 RB and is more well rounded, IMO than a AP in the passing game. He will be one of those few, like Jamaal Charles, that can be worth some kind of money, though not the lavish kind.

[Gavin]

Id do it just if were trading players and no picks

[Mr.Debonair]

Donald Brown better than Forte. Madness

[NagelHausForge]

Why is everyone writing off Carter so quickly? He was a rookie last season and had a case of the dropsies... but when he ran he ran hard and always fought for the extra yardage. He hits the hole quickly but yet still has the patience to wait for the hole to open. I can see Carter beating out brown for the #1 RB position. Brown impressed me last year, and before then I was very Anti-Donald Brown. But I think the 1-2 punch of Carter/Brown could be very effective.

I could see the Colts, depending on their record this season, drafting a RB high in the 2013 draft if neither Brown or Carter prove effective this season. Tho I highly doubt they wont.

[Superman]

I'm fine with the Brown/Carter rotation, with another back thrown in there for good measure. But Matt Forte is significantly better than both of them.

[Keith L. Scott]

With Peppers and Mario Williams would the Bears even really want Dwight Freeney?

[Case]

Matt forte is better thrn Donald brown and delone carter combined.

[MSColtsFan]

I wonder what Brown would do with 35% of the total offense. He was that guy in college. I know it's an apples to oranges comparison, but Brown led the nation in rushing for a reason. He got fed the ball, was the UConn offense. I agree he isn't Forte, but Forte gets so many touches, unlike almost everyone but MJD, Peterson, Johnson in past years. Forte is still used like Faulk, Edge, LT - a football generation ago.

[Case]

With Peppers and Mario Williams would the Bears even really want Dwight Freeney?

Mario Williams is a bill not a bear