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Scott Pennock

Daurice Fountain

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On 6/7/2019 at 10:11 PM, MFT5 said:

 

chesters not even a difference maker on returns... if fountain let alone anyone can catch a punt or kickoff they can fill the role 

 

Agreed. A mannequin could do Rogers job just as good, he was a nonfactor.

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Bagging on Rogers for PRs is a little silly. He was #9 in average yards per return. No he didn't have any TDs, but no PR had more than 1 TD last year.

 

Sure, he had the highest # of FCs, but that's likely more safe coaching and/or crappy ST's blocking. 

 

I'll take top 10 all day and not lose sleep. We have so many other Qs that are much bigger. Sure I'd love PC to come in and be a monster, but PRs don't make my top 20 concerns.

 

 

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On 6/8/2019 at 10:53 PM, Irish YJ said:

 

Rogers yes, Fountain, not really. I'm a big Fountain fan, but he played at N Iowa, and was a very raw one year wonder. Outside of health, how is Fountain way ahead of Cain?

 

Cain played at a top 5 D1 against major competition and had 500+ yards/year (for 3 straight years) beginning his FR year, skipping his SR year for the draft. Cain has it big over Fountain in terms of 1) polish, 2) competition played against, 3) college coaching received, and 4) overall production.

 

In terms of Pro production, neither have done anything. Cain by all reports had locked up starting X easily, while Fountain struggled running routes and didn't make the team even with Cain's injury (was cut and later resigned to the PS after clearing waivers IIRC). When he did get called up, he dropped a TD in mop up duty.

 

To me, it's going to be all about what position they see Fountain playing. IIRC he's been in a grey area. Has the size to play X, but was also running slot reps and was listed in the Z/Slot grouping on the depth chart when he was activated. If they see him as a long term X, he's competing with Cain and Pascal. If Z/Slot, competing with Campbell and Rogers. 

 

Personally, If Fountain has taken a good step forward in terms of polish, I'd rather he play in the X space, with Pascal not making the cut. Pascal probably has the lowest ceiling out of front group.

 

 

There was a story out of OTAs the other day about several replays of Fountain running routes in OTAs being held up by Reich as the right way to run the routes.  Fountain is a better athlete than Cain, a notoriously hard worker, and he’s made progress while Cain’s been forced into the training room.  It may not be fair, because Cain was definitely better coming in, but I don’t think that’s the case anymore..,

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3 hours ago, Archer said:

There was a story out of OTAs the other day about several replays of Fountain running routes in OTAs being held up by Reich as the right way to run the routes.  Fountain is a better athlete than Cain, a notoriously hard worker, and he’s made progress while Cain’s been forced into the training room.  It may not be fair, because Cain was definitely better coming in, but I don’t think that’s the case anymore..,

Regardless if one is a Z and one is an X then problem solved all across the board in terms of depth! I think they'll both make it on their own merits.

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11 hours ago, Archer said:

There was a story out of OTAs the other day about several replays of Fountain running routes in OTAs being held up by Reich as the right way to run the routes.  Fountain is a better athlete than Cain, a notoriously hard worker, and he’s made progress while Cain’s been forced into the training room.  It may not be fair, because Cain was definitely better coming in, but I don’t think that’s the case anymore..,


Fountain better be running good routes lol. Supposedly he spent a ton of time with a coaches/trainers specifically on route running all off season.

 

And that's all well and good, but that's one off season of technique coaching. It's a whole different world when guys put the pads on and have DBs going live. 

 

I truly hope Fountain has put it all together, as he's got such great measurements. I know Fountain has a better vert than Cain, but Cain is a tad faster, and his other measurements are more than adequate to be a stud. So both are very fast, and Fountain can jump better... 

 

And, depending on where they put Fountain, might not even matter. Cain was definitely an X last year in camp. They've treated Fountain as a tweener, but had him listed in the Z/Slot bucket when activated. Cain will be on the roster or PUP regardless come September. 

 

If they push Fountain back to the X bucket, it would likely be a Fountain/Pascal conversation. If Fountain is in the Z/Slot bucket, it's a Campbell/Rogers/Fountain conversation. Keep in mind Campbell was running with the 2s during OTAs, and Rogers the 1s. Reich and I think Ballard commented on Rogers as looking very very good, and having his best camp ever.

 

It'll be interesting. Good problem to have.

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I'll call my shot and say Fountain will be traded for a 6th or 7th rounder right before the cut down to 53.

 

I think players can improve from year to year and from all I've of Fountain he sounds like someone who puts in the work to improve but the Colts WR group is too deep and Fountain doesn't have any outstanding ability to set him apart.  Of course I don't look at speed/strength numbers as "raw ability" those are just tools and he has some good tools but he also struggles tracking the ball in the air, his hands are slow so he has to get his hands into position long before the ball gets there and his body control is mediocre.

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On 6/9/2019 at 7:35 PM, Irish YJ said:

Bagging on Rogers for PRs is a little silly. He was #9 in average yards per return. No he didn't have any TDs, but no PR had more than 1 TD last year.

 

Sure, he had the highest # of FCs, but that's likely more safe coaching and/or crappy ST's blocking. 

 

I'll take top 10 all day and not lose sleep. We have so many other Qs that are much bigger. Sure I'd love PC to come in and be a monster, but PRs don't make my top 20 concerns.

 

 

Kick returns have pretty much fazed out of the NFL. It makes more sense to not return the kick and just start at the 25-yard line.

 

Punt returns are slowly beginning to be fazed out as well. Sure, you can attempt a punt return but you are practically guaranteed a flag due to some sort of illegal blocking or holding call. It's good coaching to call for the fair catch instead of taking an additional 15-yard penalty. As you mentioned, Chester Rogers was top-10 AND well coached.

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16 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I'll call my shot and say Fountain will be traded for a 6th or 7th rounder right before the cut down to 53.

 

I think players can improve from year to year and from all I've of Fountain he sounds like someone who puts in the work to improve but the Colts WR group is too deep and Fountain doesn't have any outstanding ability to set him apart.  Of course I don't look at speed/strength numbers as "raw ability" those are just tools and he has some good tools but he also struggles tracking the ball in the air, his hands are slow so he has to get his hands into position long before the ball gets there and his body control is mediocre.

 

 I'm jelous that you got to watch so much of the ota's to be so informed about where he is now at and where he will be come cut time. You da FB Guru!

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6 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 I'm jelous that you got to watch so much of the ota's to be so informed about where he is now at and where he will be come cut time. You da FB Guru!

Obviously that is not based on anything this year.  But body control, slow hands, tracking the ball are not things that can really be taught or significantly improved upon.

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13 hours ago, Flash7 said:

Kick returns have pretty much fazed out of the NFL. It makes more sense to not return the kick and just start at the 25-yard line.

 

Punt returns are slowly beginning to be fazed out as well. Sure, you can attempt a punt return but you are practically guaranteed a flag due to some sort of illegal blocking or holding call. It's good coaching to call for the fair catch instead of taking an additional 15-yard penalty. As you mentioned, Chester Rogers was top-10 AND well coached.

yup, the whole topic is a complete non-issue.

 

regarding KRs, Indy attempted the second least returns.... and the 6th least PRs.

 

honestly though, not a fan of our KR average, but PR is just fine.

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On 6/7/2019 at 9:21 PM, Scott Pennock said:

I'm calling my shot right here, Fountain is making the 53 man roster this year.

 

It was said multiple times last year by Ballard that he would need some time to tap into his raw ability.....listed below are his explosive traits:

 

4.46 40 yard dash at 6'2" and 210

42.5" Verticle - would have been #1 at combine

134" Broad jump - would have been #1 at combine

 

It's been mentioned multiple times by Reich and Sirianni how much Fountains routes have been improved and he's playing with his explosive - aka playing with confidence and trusting his technique.

 

Additionally, it has been covered that each skill position requires certain size, speed, length traits to be draftable - which makes sense based off of who he's drafted/signed/traded for versus who he has signed as UDFA's.

 

Pre-Ballard:

Hilton 4.34 at 5'10" & 183 

Rogers 4.46 at 6'0" & 184

 

Ballards Prototype:

Campbell 4.31 at 6'0" & 205 (drafted)

Funchess 4.50 at 6'4" & 224 (free agency)

Cain 4.43 at 6'2" & 202 (drafted)

Fountain 4.46 at 6'2" & 210 (drafted)

Johnson 4.39 at 6'1" & 204 (traded for)

Dulin 4.43 at 6'1" & 215 (udfa - but draftable)

 

UDFA's:

Ishmael, good size, slow 4.5+ 40

Pascal, good size, slow 4.5+ 40

Hogan, good size, slow 4.5+ 40

Hart, too small and slow 4.5+ 40

Veasy, good size, slow 4.5+ 40

 

I like Ishmael and Pascal but I think we'll start to see the cream rise to the top this year!

Gotta like someone calling their shot... They must like him on some level because they did put him in the playoff game.  He rewarded that wide open endzone pass by dropping it, but alas, I don't think they call that play or toss him that pass unless they were hopeful of better things in the future.  He got open at least.  He's been a sort of afterthought while everyone rages about Cain.  But it seems pretty evident that one of those two has to go.  I haven't heard Pascal's name.  I have heard everyone else's though.  But it is established that you said it here first.  I think this is the most competitive position on the team this year in training camp, just ahead of DB.  

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They sure are building him up with all these videos and talk. 

 

Hope he lives up to it 

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On 6/7/2019 at 9:55 PM, Irish YJ said:

Still a head scratcher why he didn't get invited to the combine.

 

Gil Brandt ✔ @Gil_Brandt

Notable players (including the most recent SB MVP) not invited to the combine:

Julian Edelman
Antonio Gates
Wes Welker
Osi Umenyiora
Sam Shields
James Harrison
Victor Cruz
Doug Baldwin
Malcolm Butler
Jay Ratliff

 

 

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19 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Gil Brandt ✔ @Gil_Brandt

Notable players (including the most recent SB MVP) not invited to the combine:

Julian Edelman
Antonio Gates
Wes Welker
Osi Umenyiora
Sam Shields
James Harrison
Victor Cruz
Doug Baldwin
Malcolm Butler
Jay Ratliff

 

they don't always get their invites correct, just like the college recruiting services don't always get their star count correct. i get why Fountain didn't get an invite because of his college production (school size), as it's rare of a N Iowa guy going..... But, getting the O MVP at the Shrine game should have been an auto invite.

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4 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

 

they don't always get their invites correct, just like the college recruiting services don't always get their star count correct. i get why Fountain didn't get an invite because of his college production (school size), as it's rare of a N Iowa guy going..... But, getting the O MVP at the Shrine game should have been an auto invite.

 

 There is this-

 

"All 32 NFL teams are invited to provide input on draft-eligible players which is used by the Player Selection Committee to select each year’s participants. The Directors of both National and BLESTO scouting services, which combined represent 28 NFL teams, are joined by members of various NFL player personnel departments to form the committee. The participating NFL executives can rotate on a yearly basis, and remain anonymous. ALL eligible players are reviewed and voted on by the committee members. Each athlete receiving the necessary number of votes, by position, is then extended an invitation. While it is not a perfect science, the goal of the committee is to invite every player that will be drafted in the ensuing NFL Draft."

 

And more.  I hear well over 300 get an invite, yet almost 1/3 don't get drafted.  Then another 35-50 are not invited (many poor character issue guys, which essentially makes them ineligible to attend) get drafted.  Seems odd, but I hear it is fairly consistent.

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22 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

 There is this-

 

"All 32 NFL teams are invited to provide input on draft-eligible players which is used by the Player Selection Committee to select each year’s participants. The Directors of both National and BLESTO scouting services, which combined represent 28 NFL teams, are joined by members of various NFL player personnel departments to form the committee. The participating NFL executives can rotate on a yearly basis, and remain anonymous. ALL eligible players are reviewed and voted on by the committee members. Each athlete receiving the necessary number of votes, by position, is then extended an invitation. While it is not a perfect science, the goal of the committee is to invite every player that will be drafted in the ensuing NFL Draft."

 

And more.  I hear well over 300 get an invite, yet almost 1/3 don't get drafted.  Then another 35-50 are not invited (many poor character issue guys, which essentially makes them ineligible to attend) get drafted.  Seems odd, but I hear it is fairly consistent.

 

And I also wonder if some teams don't vote for under the radar guys just because they want to pick them up as UDFAs or draft them out of "nowhere". 

 

Personally, I would have taken Cain at 159, but obviously someone had a hard on for Fountain on the staff. 

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