Greg Cosell on the Colts draft

[ColtsBlueFL]

On 5/2/2019 at 3:40 PM, Scott Pennock said:

The beauty of this draft is nobody HAS to start right away.....

 

They just need to contribute and make more and more plays as the season wears on.

 

Not a bad thing...

 

On 5/3/2019 at 2:31 AM, Luck 4 president said:

I remember before last years draft I was confident we would be able to draft 4-5 starters because of how bad our roster was. This year I’m hoping we can get 2 day 1 starters because we are pretty deep at most positions 

 

I'm not worried about 'starters', I concern myself with 'snap counts'.  How many does/did each get.

 

I heard a sobering statistic (if it can be verified). Apparently, of all the 2018 drafted players, and some UDFA's, there were only 47 players from that group with 600 or more 'snaps'. Three of those would be Colts!  (Big Q, Leonard, Smith) which leaves 44 others?

 

Anyway, I think the chance of getting starters is much lower this time, and I wonder what the new guys get in snap counts for 2019.

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

All rookies start climbing from the very bottom, except maybe guys like Nelson. Even Hooker, Leonard were "rooks" and had to earn every snap. So yes, nothing is automatic, as nothing should be automatic. However, looking at the strenght and weaknesses of a roster, one can have an opinion on who will jump as far as day 1 starting, and who will need more time. I'm more on your side, I think - barring injuries - none of this year's rookies will be starters in game 1. Some of them might earn bigger roles, some of them smaller, but none of them will be starter.

 

Yup, I'm buying in to that.

 

15 minutes ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

Which is, btw not a bad sign. 2019 is nothing like 2017 or 2018 were. Last year for example the Colts didn't have ONE proven starter at LB, didn't have a #2 CB, #2 RB, the right side of the OL was a big question mark, no one knew how the dline will look like. In addition to that, the Colts had new HC, OC, DC, new schemes, so even those who were probable starters (Hankins, Simon, Anderson) ended up being cut/traded, because schematic non-fits. 2019 is very different. The Colts have their starters at almost every position (I dare to say EVERY position), and not just starters, but at a number of positions, they have nice rotation as well. So it's way more difficult for a rookie to climb up the ladder. Even for players picked in the 2nd round. So, I think there will be 5, maybe 6 rookies who will make the roster, and contribute. Some of them may earn starting spot by the end of the season, if everything goes well for them. (My bet is on Ya-Sin, Willis and maybe Okereke.) The others will play in rotation / special teams. (Regarding Campbell, I think he'll carve out a nice role, but I consider the Colts a 1-2 personnel offense, so only 2 WR-s, Hilton and Funches as starters.)

 

Btw, I don't think 2018 will repeat itself, when ALL of our rookies made either the roster or PS - most of them the roster -, except Cain, who would've made it too if he stayed healthy.. This year, 1-2-3 guys won't make it. Neither the roster, nor the PS. And I think that' fine. The Colts have a good roster.

 

 

I just hope 'Flus schemes these guys talents into the rotation and game plan well.  Mix things up yet, keep legs fresh.

[Narcosys]

My take from most of these draft analyst. None other these guys are truly spectacular and most need a good amount of developmental work to be good in the NFL.

[NDcolt]

On 5/2/2019 at 3:10 PM, stitches said:

Cosell is my favorite football analyst out there. There is noone else that comes close IMO. Here's you can listen to Greg Cosell on Dan Dakich's show yesterday:

https://omny.fm/shows/the-dan-dakich-show/greg-cosell-breaks-down-the-nfl-draft

 

-Rock Ya-Sin - doesn't like him as much as Ballard does. He's not a plug and play guy... Colts probably see him that way, though. Can be a good player down the road.

-Khari Willis - liked him, strong safety type(Dakich stopped him and went on a tangent after Cosell said he liked him)

-Marvell Tell - great measurables, great length, has corner length but hasn't played corner. He has reps against slot receivers where he did well. He can be interchangeable safety 

-Ben Banogu - intriguing player, not pure pass-rusher, not a bender, not flexible.. the more you watch him the more you like him ... good athlete, fluid movement. Glue guy. Not a guy who would get 15 sacks a year, but he's assignment-disciplined, plays with intensity. You hope as he plays more you can develop him into a better pass-rusher. He had some good reps inside against guards. Like his playing personality and disciplined approach. 

-Parris Campbell - great speed, he was used as a shallow cross type receiver - a lot of crossers, not a lot of vertical routes, but with that speed you would like to think that there is potential there as vertical receiver. He's relatively big too, pretty good size. Multiple weapon! Has to learn a lot about the nuances and details of route-running, because he didn't do that at Ohio State. Very intriguing prospect, though. 

-Bobby Okereke - really liked him, really good prospect. Athletic kid, fits what the new NFL looks for in a linebacker - probably 43 WILL - athleticism, quickness, range. He's at his best when he can be kept clean. Ideally you would like to see him replace Anthony Walker at some point and be the second stacked linebacker next to Leonard (my note here- his assessment of Okereke is of note because Cosell was the analyst who was the highest on Leonard last year and thought he was a future star before the draft... he is heaping similar even if a little subdued praises for Okereke).

-EJ Speed - long, rangy... can run... will play special teams... maybe not this year, but he could be a starter some time in the future. Drafted him in the 5th round from a small school nobody's heard about. This means there was something about him that they really liked. They took SEC DE 35 picks later. They are telling you that they like the small school guy much better than the SEC player... 

 

 

On a side note- god I hate Dan Dakich. I just listened to Cosell's interview on Tennessee radio and it was night and day, he gave them so much more detail and better analysis simply because their host wanted to listen and didn't interject so much. Dakich jumps frantically from one spot to the next, doesn't let the guest finish his statements, interjects and gets sidetracked instead of letting his guest talk.  

LOST me w/ Tennessee radio!  I mean both Reggie and Boomstick just made Titan Nation look like yesterday Browns but ok I’m listening Cosell lmao.  You wanna question the top 3 GM and scouting staff?

[CurBeatElite]

On 5/2/2019 at 2:37 PM, Smonroe said:

I like guys like Cosell and DJ who do deep dives, not just repeat the same old sound bites. 

 

I guess Speed impressed Ballard so much at his private workout that he was worried someone else would snatch him.  Tarlton State was a D2 powerhouse, for what it's worth.

 

No one thought much of a prospect out of Alabama A&M about 16 years ago when the Colts drafted Robert Mathis.

 

I am looking at Speed's stats.... as a sophomore he led the nation in forced fumbles.  He had an injury-plagued junior year and was a stud as as senior (averaged 8.83 tackles/game).  He had an INT and 17 tackles in the D2  national championship in a 10-13 loss to #1 Minnesota State.  Seems to me like the guy can play and he shows up in big games.  He had offers to play at Univ. of Colorado and I think Oklahoma State (both pretty good D-1 schools) along with other schools.  He played a Tarleton State because he wanted to stick close to his adopted brother who was battling cancer at the time -- I tend to think the fact that he played at a D2 school doesn't represent how talented this guy can be.

 

On 5/2/2019 at 2:50 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

Well...   Ballard says Tell’s first look will be at corner.   I suppose free safety would be the fallback.    Willis would appear to start at Strong...

 

I think Willis and Geathers will be interesting.  Based on college tape, I think Willis is a bit better in coverage than Geathers.  I expect Willis will mostly be used at SS and Geathers will play kind of a hybrid dime/SS role.

 

On 5/3/2019 at 5:00 AM, JPFolks said:

Your post made me think of an interesting question to ponder: 

 

Which 2018 position starters (not spot starters, I am talking primary guys) are most likely to be beaten out by a rookie?  And does anyone have a surprise starter losing their job to a rookie or UDFA? The answer I think I have is ZERO.  But I am sure some out there may think differently? (And I am not counting Rogers as a starting WR or something similar to that).  I expect some people will likely jump on CB and Rock Ya Sin replacing Kenny Moore since some think we won't even make our roster.  It's possible he'll take the spot I suppose and Kenny will focus on the slot, but I don't think it is automatic.  

 

Anyone? 

 

I think Rock Ya-Sin will be a starter by the middle of the season, and expect he, Desir and Quincy Wilson will be the 3 CBs on the field the most (with Kenny Moore seeing a large reduction in workload).  

 

I think Willis has a legitimate shot to beat out Geathers or at least take a significant portion of work at SS, with Geathers acting more as a hybrid dime CB/LB/SS role.

 

I think Campbell will be on the field a lot as a #2 or #3 WR. He may not be a true starter, but I think he'll get a significant amount of work and will be on the field quite a bit.

 

I also expect Okerere to seriously challenge Walker for the ILB position.  I think Banogu will also see the field quite a bit, as he's got a lot of talent, but at this point, I think the staff will have to get comfortable using him in different roles and think he may be a little more raw than Okerere.

 

 

10 hours ago, LockeDown said:

Rock’s  switch to Temple and earning a single digit number shows his mentality and maturity while Wilson wasn’t even studying film until Mitchell told him how. I just think Rock is bound for greater things than Wilson.

 

I tend to think Wilson has a higher ceiling than Rock Ya-Sin, but has skated by on pure talent and didn't really figure out how to work until mid-season last year.  Ya-Sin, on the other hand, I think has gotten this far due to a tremendous work-ethic.  If Wilson continues to put in work, study film, etc. I think he's going to be a surprise player this coming season because I think he's got the most raw talent out of our CB group.

[LockeDown]

1 hour ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

I am looking at Speed's stats.... as a sophomore he led the nation in forced fumbles.  He had an injury-plagued junior year and was a stud as as senior (averaged 8.83 tackles/game).  He had an INT and 17 tackles in the D2  national championship in a 10-13 loss to #1 Minnesota State.  Seems to me like the guy can play and he shows up in big games.  He had offers to play at Univ. of Colorado and I think Oklahoma State (both pretty good D-1 schools) along with other schools.  He played a Tarleton State because he wanted to stick close to his adopted brother who was battling cancer at the time -- I tend to think the fact that he played at a D2 school doesn't represent how talented this guy can be.

 

 

I think Willis and Geathers will be interesting.  Based on college tape, I think Willis is a bit better in coverage than Geathers.  I expect Willis will mostly be used at SS and Geathers will play kind of a hybrid dime/SS role.

 

 

I think Rock Ya-Sin will be a starter by the middle of the season, and expect he, Desir and Quincy Wilson will be the 3 CBs on the field the most (with Kenny Moore seeing a large reduction in workload).  

 

I think Willis has a legitimate shot to beat out Geathers or at least take a significant portion of work at SS, with Geathers acting more as a hybrid dime CB/LB/SS role.

 

I think Campbell will be on the field a lot as a #2 or #3 WR. He may not be a true starter, but I think he'll get a significant amount of work and will be on the field quite a bit.

 

I also expect Okerere to seriously challenge Walker for the ILB position.  I think Banogu will also see the field quite a bit, as he's got a lot of talent, but at this point, I think the staff will have to get comfortable using him in different roles and think he may be a little more raw than Okerere.

 

 

 

I tend to think Wilson has a higher ceiling than Rock Ya-Sin, but has skated by on pure talent and didn't really figure out how to work until mid-season last year.  Ya-Sin, on the other hand, I think has gotten this far due to a tremendous work-ethic.  If Wilson continues to put in work, study film, etc. I think he's going to be a surprise player this coming season because I think he's got the most raw talent out of our CB group.

I hope you are right, But usually work ethic never quits and people who skate by tend to return to skating. 

[CurBeatElite]

9 minutes ago, LockeDown said:

I hope you are right, But usually work ethic never quits and people who skate by tend to return to skating. 

 

I hope I'm right, too.... I really think the addition of Mike Mitchell last year greatly helped Quincy Wilson develop (I don't think many would argue).  Hopefully he realizes he can have a long, successful career in the NFL if he keeps working like that..

[BlueCrew48]

On 5/2/2019 at 4:24 PM, crazycolt1 said:

I think he tries to groom the questions that are ask and when someone don't go in that direction he cuts them off by being rude.

I am not knocking those who like him because it takes all kind.

I listen to JMV if I happen to be driving but not anymore than that. JMV seems to have a pretty good grip on what the Colts are doing.

 

I am more of a Query and Schultz guy at that time-slot.  I get tired of JMV trying to sound cool at every chance possible (and failing)  1070/107.g do get better guests typically, but Q & S are much better hosts IMO.

[Jason_]

On 5/2/2019 at 3:30 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

I don’t think Ballard considers Rock a plug and play guy.   That basically means starting week one.  

 

Are you sure about that?  I've always taken the phrase "plug and play player" to mean you can plug them into multiple schemes with little to no new training being required.  They'd need to learn terminology but not the basics of the scheme.

[ztboiler]

17 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

I am looking at Speed's stats.... as a sophomore he led the nation in forced fumbles.  He had an injury-plagued junior year and was a stud as as senior (averaged 8.83 tackles/game).  He had an INT and 17 tackles in the D2  national championship in a 10-13 loss to #1 Minnesota State.  Seems to me like the guy can play and he shows up in big games.  He had offers to play at Univ. of Colorado and I think Oklahoma State (both pretty good D-1 schools) along with other schools.  He played a Tarleton State because he wanted to stick close to his adopted brother who was battling cancer at the time -- I tend to think the fact that he played at a D2 school doesn't represent how talented this guy can be.

 

 

I think Willis and Geathers will be interesting.  Based on college tape, I think Willis is a bit better in coverage than Geathers.  I expect Willis will mostly be used at SS and Geathers will play kind of a hybrid dime/SS role.

 

 

I think Rock Ya-Sin will be a starter by the middle of the season, and expect he, Desir and Quincy Wilson will be the 3 CBs on the field the most (with Kenny Moore seeing a large reduction in workload).  

 

A large reduction in workload for Kenny Moore...our second best defensive player last year on an ascending defense...please tell us more.

 

[CurBeatElite]

11 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

 

A large reduction in workload for Kenny Moore...our second best defensive player last year on an ascending defense...please tell us more.

 

 

I don't think he was our 2nd best player on defense... I would put at least Leonard and Hooker ahead of him.  Sure he played well, but I think you could argue that Desir played better at CB and was usually lined up against a better WR from the opposition (e.g., there's a reason why Desir was lined up against DeAndre Hopkins and not Moore when we played the Texans).

 

As I've said in previous posts -- Moore started off shaky in year 1 and really improved last year.  That said, he's our smallest CB by far and it's pretty well known that Ballard and our coaches like bigger/longer guys.  

 

I am rooting for Moore, I just see several of the other young guys we have on our team 'fitting the mold' of this D better.  It may take a year or 2 for a couple new guys (Ya-Sin, Tell) to adjust to the NFL, but I also think it's clear that Ballard is looking to get bigger and more athletic in the secondary -- he just drafted 2 guys that are bigger and more athletic than Moore -- plus, I think we'll see Wilson continue to improve and Desir was just signed to a nice contract renewal.  Out of all those guys, Moore has the lowest ceiling (at least IMO) and is the least prototypical player for the scheme Ballard and Co seem to be trying to implement.  

[ztboiler]

7 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

I don't think he was our 2nd best player on defense... I would put at least Leonard and Hooker ahead of him.  Sure he played well, but I think you could argue that Desir played better at CB and was usually lined up against a better WR from the opposition (e.g., there's a reason why Desir was lined up against DeAndre Hopkins and not Moore when we played the Texans).

 

As I've said in previous posts -- Moore started off shaky in year 1 and really improved last year.  That said, he's our smallest CB by far and it's pretty well known that Ballard and our coaches like bigger/longer guys.  

 

I am rooting for Moore, I just see several of the other young guys we have on our team 'fitting the mold' of this D better.  It may take a year or 2 for a couple new guys (Ya-Sin, Tell) to adjust to the NFL, but I also think it's clear that Ballard is looking to get bigger and more athletic in the secondary -- he just drafted 2 guys that are bigger and more athletic than Moore -- plus, I think we'll see Wilson continue to improve and Desir was just signed to a nice contract renewal.  Out of all those guys, Moore has the lowest ceiling (at least IMO) and is the least prototypical player for the scheme Ballard and Co seem to be trying to implement.  

 

You are confusing the level that high ceiling players would like to ascend to with the player that Kenny Moore has already become.  

 

If you’d like to contend that Kenny won’t be able to maintain last year’s productivity, then that’s a different conversation...

[Steamboat_Shaun]

On 5/2/2019 at 2:04 PM, crazycolt1 said:

The longer they play together the better they will get.

For those who think a couple may be starters already have to remember positions will have to be earned. Nothing is set in stone except our all pro starters.

It's going to be sweet when the time comes our talent level don't have a big drop off when we have an injury or when we rotate players.

I truly believe we are going to have a defense that is fast, swarming and a little nasty at times.

All it takes is practice, practice and some more practice.

 

Personally I love the fact that we're returning 21 of 22 starters & that this draft class can be developed over time as opposed to having half of them be trial-by-fire day 1 starters.

[CurBeatElite]

2 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

 

You are confusing the level that high ceiling players would like to ascend to with the player that Kenny Moore has already become.  

 

If you’d like to contend that Kenny won’t be able to maintain last year’s productivity, then that’s a different conversation...

 

It's well documented that Ballard likes to bring in good athletes (in the secondary, he also likes them to be big) and allow coaches to work with them to develop and reach their ceiling.

 

It's my opinion that Kenny Moore has a lower ceiling than Ya-Sin, Desir, Wilson, Hairston (if healthy) and Tell.  I hope he comes out and maintains last year's productivity.... however, if these other guys reach their ceiling or come close to it, I see Moore as being a player who gets his playing time reduced.  

 

These guys may not reach their ceiling, but I'm not confusing anything as you're suggesting... simply stating that out of all the CBs we have on this team, Moore is the least prototypical for the style of D we like to play.  Based on size and athleticism alone, I don't think there is a complicated argument to suggest we have multiple CBs with more potential than Moore.  That isn't to say Moore isn't a solid player or that I want to see him fail.  It'll be a good problem to have if all the other guys reach their ceiling and we have to make a tough decision about who gets the most playing time and who we may have to get rid of.

[chad72]

On 5/2/2019 at 3:10 PM, stitches said:

Cosell is my favorite football analyst out there. There is noone else that comes close IMO. Here's you can listen to Greg Cosell on Dan Dakich's show yesterday:

https://omny.fm/shows/the-dan-dakich-show/greg-cosell-breaks-down-the-nfl-draft

 

-Rock Ya-Sin - doesn't like him as much as Ballard does. He's not a plug and play guy... Colts probably see him that way, though. Can be a good player down the road.

-Khari Willis - liked him, strong safety type(Dakich stopped him and went on a tangent after Cosell said he liked him)

-Marvell Tell - great measurables, great length, has corner length but hasn't played corner. He has reps against slot receivers where he did well. He can be interchangeable safety 

-Ben Banogu - intriguing player, not pure pass-rusher, not a bender, not flexible.. the more you watch him the more you like him ... good athlete, fluid movement. Glue guy. Not a guy who would get 15 sacks a year, but he's assignment-disciplined, plays with intensity. You hope as he plays more you can develop him into a better pass-rusher. He had some good reps inside against guards. Like his playing personality and disciplined approach. 

-Parris Campbell - great speed, he was used as a shallow cross type receiver - a lot of crossers, not a lot of vertical routes, but with that speed you would like to think that there is potential there as vertical receiver. He's relatively big too, pretty good size. Multiple weapon! Has to learn a lot about the nuances and details of route-running, because he didn't do that at Ohio State. Very intriguing prospect, though. 

-Bobby Okereke - really liked him, really good prospect. Athletic kid, fits what the new NFL looks for in a linebacker - probably 43 WILL - athleticism, quickness, range. He's at his best when he can be kept clean. Ideally you would like to see him replace Anthony Walker at some point and be the second stacked linebacker next to Leonard (my note here- his assessment of Okereke is of note because Cosell was the analyst who was the highest on Leonard last year and thought he was a future star before the draft... he is heaping similar even if a little subdued praises for Okereke).

-EJ Speed - long, rangy... can run... will play special teams... maybe not this year, but he could be a starter some time in the future. Drafted him in the 5th round from a small school nobody's heard about. This means there was something about him that they really liked. They took SEC DE 35 picks later. They are telling you that they like the small school guy much better than the SEC player... 

 

 

On a side note- god I hate Dan Dakich. I just listened to Cosell's interview on Tennessee radio and it was night and day, he gave them so much more detail and better analysis simply because their host wanted to listen and didn't interject so much. Dakich jumps frantically from one spot to the next, doesn't let the guest finish his statements, interjects and gets sidetracked instead of letting his guest talk.  

 

Dan Dakich is the Bill O' Reilly of sports talk radio, I have always stood by that assessment.  

[ztboiler]

38 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

It's well documented that Ballard likes to bring in good athletes (in the secondary, he also likes them to be big) and allow coaches to work with them to develop and reach their ceiling.

 

It's my opinion that Kenny Moore has a lower ceiling than Ya-Sin, Desir, Wilson, Hairston (if healthy) and Tell.  I hope he comes out and maintains last year's productivity.... however, if these other guys reach their ceiling or come close to it, I see Moore as being a player who gets his playing time reduced.  

 

These guys may not reach their ceiling, but I'm not confusing anything as you're suggesting... simply stating that out of all the CBs we have on this team, Moore is the least prototypical for the style of D we like to play.  Based on size and athleticism alone, I don't think there is a complicated argument to suggest we have multiple CBs with more potential than Moore.  That isn't to say Moore isn't a solid player or that I want to see him fail.  It'll be a good problem to have if all the other guys reach their ceiling and we have to make a tough decision about who gets the most playing time and who we may have to get rid of.

 

The smell of spring and that special scent of rookie is in the air...

 

Fall always has a little different scent in the air.

[NewColtsFan]

11 hours ago, J@son said:

 

Are you sure about that?  I've always taken the phrase "plug and play player" to mean you can plug them into multiple schemes with little to no new training being required.  They'd need to learn terminology but not the basics of the scheme.

 

I'm not sure we aren't saying the same thing,  but differently.

 

Either way,  I found this on-line...   an article about expressions that NFL scouts use as they're looking for talent.      I'm cutting and pasting...

 

“Plug and play”

Example: DE Bradley Chubb, NC State

A lot of players coming into the NFL need a year or two to get up to speed before they’re ready to hit the field. If a guy’s a “plug and play” prospect, though, he’s advanced enough in his technique or talented enough to contribute from day one. Just put him into your scheme and let him go to work. Chubb can play the run. He can rush the passer. He’s tenacious. He’s technically sound. He’ll contribute right away.

[Jason_]

13 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm not sure we aren't saying the same thing,  but differently.

 

Either way,  I found this on-line...   an article about expressions that NFL scouts use as they're looking for talent.      I'm cutting and pasting...

 

“Plug and play”

Example: DE Bradley Chubb, NC State

A lot of players coming into the NFL need a year or two to get up to speed before they’re ready to hit the field. If a guy’s a “plug and play” prospect, though, he’s advanced enough in his technique or talented enough to contribute from day one. Just put him into your scheme and let him go to work. Chubb can play the run. He can rush the passer. He’s tenacious. He’s technically sound. He’ll contribute right away.

 

Yeah I think you're right lol.