Maurice Hurst medically cleared to play football

[bananabucket]

If we traded down, got 12 and 22, and took Roquan/Hurst... my life would be complete.  Two perfect fits for what we are looking for. 

[Hoose]

36 minutes ago, bananabucket said:

If we traded down, got 12 and 22, and took Roquan/Hurst... my life would be complete.  Two perfect fits for what we are looking for. 

That wouldn't break my heart.....so long as the Colts snagged a G at the top of the 2nd round. 

[ztboiler]

46 minutes ago, krunk said:

Will one of you guys understand I'm not saying we shouldn't get a 3 tech?   I do think it's not likely we will get all 3 of them in this draft.    I just think the edge players have a bit more value.   Doesn't mean you miss out on the 3 tech or not target a good one if available . Trust me I see the value of the position.  

 

I just think it's less managable if your edge players are bad versus if you have a good 3 tech and bad pass rushers. Ideally you would like to have strong play from all 3 if you can.   The whole piece is important, but I think the edge players have a bit  more value.

Here's why you've gotten resistance from me, despite the fact that we agree fundamentally....it's this reality built from our recent Colt's history:  You can't have a solid D without great edge pressure, nor can you have an elite D without great interior pass rush.  I simply have zero interest in repeating the defensive performance of '02 to '11.  That scheme without a difference-maker at 3Tech was the number 1 reason why Peyton only won 1 Superbowl here.  As great as those Colts teams were, and as much as we should all be grateful for what we had, they under delivered on their potential...and I see no reason to repeat that history unless you deal with the elements that prevented the scheme from working.

 

[krunk]

1 minute ago, ztboiler said:

Here's why you've gotten resistance from me, despite the fact that we agree fundamentally....it's this reality built from our recent Colt's history:  You can't have a solid D without great edge pressure, nor can you have an elite D without great interior pass rush.  I simply have zero interest in repeating the defensive performance of '02 to '11.  That scheme without a difference-maker at 3Tech was the number 1 reason why Peyton only won 1 Superbowl here.  As great as those Colts teams were, and as much as we should all be grateful for what we had, they under delivered on their potential...and I see no reason to repeat that history unless you deal with the elements that prevented the scheme from working.

 

That's if you're under the assumption that my stance is we don't need a good 3 tech. Which that's not really my stance at all.   I was just evaluating one versus the other independently.   But yes I agree with what you're saying.  You need strong parts at all 3 spots to have a top level defense. Maybe I should have worded it differently.

[ztboiler]

28 minutes ago, krunk said:

That's if you're under the assumption that my stance is we don't need a good 3 tech. Which that's not really my stance at all.   I was just evaluating one versus the other independently.   But yes I agree with what you're saying.  You need strong parts at all 3 spots to have a top level defense. Maybe I should have worded it differently.

Probably just degrees of emphasis.  It’s this simple for me....  I’m not a fan of the new scheme because I’ve never seen it work without a player like John Randle, Warren Sapp or Tommie Harris in his prime.  So much rides on finding a player like them that I’d rather build differently.

 

Only thing I really need to be excited is more press coverage than I think we’re about to see....I hate receivers running around with nobody close to them!

[krunk]

6 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

Probably just degrees of emphasis.  It’s this simple for me....  I’m not a fan of the new scheme because I’ve never seen it work without a player like John Randle, Warren Sapp or Tommie Harris in his prime.  So much rides on finding a player like them that I’d rather build differently.

 

Only thing I really need to be excited is more press coverage than I think we’re about to see....I hate receivers running around with nobody close to them!

Honestly I was just fine in the 3-4 defense.  Just thought we needed better players.  Oh well!!!!   I'm not that big of a fan of just sitting back and rushing with 4.   I like to bring the blitz a little bit.   Hopefully Eberflus will do a little bit of both.   I won't hold my breath though seeing that his mentors were Dungy disciples.

[FalseStart]

Love to line him up right next to Chubb.  Pick #37 Please...

[ztboiler]

7 minutes ago, krunk said:

Honestly I was just fine in the 3-4 defense.  Just thought we needed better players.  Oh well!!!!   I'm not that big of a fan of just sitting back and rushing with 4.   I like to bring the blitz a little bit.   Hopefully Eberflus will do a little bit of both.   I won't hold my breath though seeing that his mentors were Dungy disciples.

When your new coach is using the bend but don’t break phrase in his stock discussions about defensive approach, we all know what we’re going to get.  However, the scheme does work perfectly if you get the right players....

 

Which leads to this...it’s Ballard’s choice.  He wants to scout and select for this scheme.  It’s all on him, rather than scheme and coaching.  He wants it that way.  I, for one, believe he can pull it off...but I still hate the scheme 

[krunk]

1 minute ago, ztboiler said:

When your new coach is using the bend but don’t break phrase in his stock discussions about defensive approach, we all know what we’re going to get.  However, the scheme does work perfectly if you get the right players....

 

Which leads to this...it’s Ballard’s choice.  He wants to scout and select for this scheme.  It’s all on him, rather than scheme and coaching.  He wants it that way.  I, for one, believe he can pull it off...but I still hate the scheme 

I think he can pull it off as well. But of course we have our personal preferences.

[stitches]

12 minutes ago, krunk said:

Honestly I was just fine in the 3-4 defense.  Just thought we needed better players.  Oh well!!!!   I'm not that big of a fan of just sitting back and rushing with 4.   I like to bring the blitz a little bit.   Hopefully Eberflus will do a little bit of both.   I won't hold my breath though seeing that his mentors were Dungy disciples.

Yeah, if we are indeed playing tampa 2, we won't see much blitzing. Tampa 2 relies on the front 4 to create pressure on the QB and extremely rarely on schemed pressure through blitzes. For example, Dallas was in the bottom 5 in the league in using blitzes last year. This is yet another reason that IMO we need to find high level inside penetrator for our 3tech. If we are not going to be sending blitzes, we need the front 4 to be great at creating pressure. 

[Hoose]

37 minutes ago, stitches said:

Yeah, if we are indeed playing tampa 2, we won't see much blitzing. Tampa 2 relies on the front 4 to create pressure on the QB and extremely rarely on schemed pressure through blitzes. For example, Dallas was in the bottom 5 in the league in using blitzes last year. This is yet another reason that IMO we need to find high level inside penetrator for our 3tech. If we are not going to be sending blitzes, we need the front 4 to be great at creating pressure. 

Which screams for Bradley Chubb. 

[krunk]

Would love to be able to get Chubb and Hurst.  That would just be awesome!

[Indy Fan]

On 3/23/2018 at 9:08 AM, krunk said:

Will one of you guys understand I'm not saying we shouldn't get a 3 tech?   I do think it's not likely we will get all 3 of them in this draft.    I just think the edge players have a bit more value.   Doesn't mean you miss out on the 3 tech or not target a good one if available . Trust me I see the value of the position.  

 

I just think it's less managable if your edge players are bad versus if you have a good 3 tech and bad pass rushers. Ideally you would like to have strong play from all 3 if you can.   The whole piece is important, but I think the edge players have a bit  more value.

We both understand your point, however, you initially downplayed the 3 tech spot references a defense with the likes of two HOFs. I also believe we can get after the QB just as effectively with Sheard on one side and a great 3 tech. You put the emphasis on 2 edge first then tackles and I’d say it’s 1 edge, 3 tech, other edge in that order. Pretty simple just a little difference in our philosophy. I also believe that Landry will have tremendous value as an end in a 4-3 and can be obtained outside the top 10.

[Indy Fan]

On 3/23/2018 at 9:08 AM, krunk said:

Will one of you guys understand I'm not saying we shouldn't get a 3 tech?   I do think it's not likely we will get all 3 of them in this draft.    I just think the edge players have a bit more value.   Doesn't mean you miss out on the 3 tech or not target a good one if available . Trust me I see the value of the position.  

 

I just think it's less managable if your edge players are bad versus if you have a good 3 tech and bad pass rushers. Ideally you would like to have strong play from all 3 if you can.   The whole piece is important, but I think the edge players have a bit  more value.

We both understand your point, however, you initially downplayed the 3 tech spot references a defense with the likes of two HOFs. I also believe we can get after the QB just as effectively with Sheard on one side and a great 3 tech. You put the emphasis on 2 edge first then tackles and I’d say it’s 1 edge, 3 tech, other edge in that order. Pretty simple just a little difference in our philosophy. I also believe that Landry will have tremendous value as an end in a 4-3 and can be obtained outside the top 10.

[stitches]

Do you guys think Hassan Ridgeway will play 3tech in the new scheme? I don't have any particular memories from Ridgeway's play this last season but I just checked his stats. He only played in 17% of the defensive snaps and netted 14 tackles and 3 sacks. He also had about average grade by PFF. Now I realize that this is in a different scheme and we might have used him extensively in passing situations(I don't have the stats on this one, if someone has them please post them, thanks) thus the direct projection of increased snap count to increased production is not very safe, but is it possible we already have our 3tech of the future on the roster? Most of the premium 3techs in the league (Cox, Donald, Geno Atkins, etc) play between 65-75% of the snaps. I wonder if Ridgeway can handle that and to what extent his production will translate? 

 

He also has history of great pass-rush productivity from college. In 2016 he was 3d in the country in pass-rush productivity from all inside defensive linemen. 

 

Is it possible we already have the solution to the 3tech position on the roster? 

[krunk]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

Do you guys think Hassan Ridgeway will play 3tech in the new scheme? I don't have any particular memories from Ridgeway's play this last season but I just checked his stats. He only played in 17% of the defensive snaps and netted 14 tackles and 3 sacks. He also had about average grade by PFF. Now I realize that this is in a different scheme and we might have used him extensively in passing situations(I don't have the stats on this one, if someone has them please post them, thanks) thus the direct projection of increased snap count to increased production is not very safe, but is it possible we already have our 3tech of the future on the roster? Most of the premium 3techs in the league (Cox, Donald, Geno Atkins, etc) play between 65-75% of the snaps. I wonder if Ridgeway can handle that and to what extent his production will translate? 

 

He also has history of great pass-rush productivity from college. In 2016 he was 3d in the country in pass-rush productivity from all inside defensive linemen. 

 

Is it possible we already have the solution to the 3tech position on the roster? 

Definitely believe hes part of the solution at that position. Wouldn't stop me from drafting Hurst though. Doesnt hurt to have more than one. Right now we've got Ridgeway and Denico Autry. I feel like Grover is athletic enough also but we will see.

[krunk]

I like Tim Settle too the more I've watched. Reminds me Hankins, but the difference is he moves a lot better and can penetrate the pocket. Between him, Hurst, and Taven Bryan at least one should be available in Rd 2

[Defjamz26]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

Do you guys think Hassan Ridgeway will play 3tech in the new scheme? I don't have any particular memories from Ridgeway's play this last season but I just checked his stats. He only played in 17% of the defensive snaps and netted 14 tackles and 3 sacks. He also had about average grade by PFF. Now I realize that this is in a different scheme and we might have used him extensively in passing situations(I don't have the stats on this one, if someone has them please post them, thanks) thus the direct projection of increased snap count to increased production is not very safe, but is it possible we already have our 3tech of the future on the roster? Most of the premium 3techs in the league (Cox, Donald, Geno Atkins, etc) play between 65-75% of the snaps. I wonder if Ridgeway can handle that and to what extent his production will translate? 

 

He also has history of great pass-rush productivity from college. In 2016 he was 3d in the country in pass-rush productivity from all inside defensive linemen. 

 

Is it possible we already have the solution to the 3tech position on the roster? 

I have no doubt there’s a couple hidden talents on the team that didn’t get to shine because of an inept coaching staff and being in the wrong scheme. And the defense is probably where most of those guys are. Ridgeway could be one. Idk about a quality starter but he could be a solid contributor in a 4-3. What Pagano did to some of the young players on the roster early in their careers is almost criminal.

[krunk]

Trenton Thompson from Georgia seems like another option along with Harrison Phillips from Stanford. Maybe Andrew Brown from Virginia.

 

 

I think Hurst, Bryan, Settle, and Trenton Thompson are the top options at 3 technique.   I love Hurst but the more I learn about Tim Settle he may actually be the better option.  .  Everyone is so in love with Hurst they haven't quite looked closely enough at Settle.  Settle also has the necessary size that you look for, plus he can play Nose Tackle, 3 Tech and some other things.  He can Single gap or Two Gap.

[stitches]

33 minutes ago, krunk said:

Trenton Thompson from Georgia seems like another option along with Harrison Phillips from Stanford. Maybe Andrew Brown from Virginia.

 

 

I think Hurst, Settle, and Trenton Thompson are the top options at 3 technique.   I love Hurst but the more I learn about Tim Settle he may actually be the better option.  .  Everyone is so in love with Hurst they haven't quite looked closely enough at Settle.  Settle also has the necessary size that you look for, plus he can play Nose Tackle, 3 Tech and some other things.  He can Single gap or Two Gap.

Andrew Brown was a 5 star recruit. From what I've heard he was pigeonholed into a 34 two gap scheme that didn't fit him and that he played great when they put him as a 1 gap penetrator at the senior bowl. Here's a little bit on it here:

 

http://www.dailyprogress.com/cavalierinsider/q-a-nfl-draft-analyst-weighs-in-on-andrew-brown/article_6d02e952-02bd-11e8-94e0-63c098edf55c.html

 

Quote

 

Daily Progress: What has Brown been doing so well these past couple of days and has it come as a surprise to people watching him?

Joe Marino: “I think it stems from the reason that he was a five-star recruit. He’s so physically gifted, he checked in at a little over 6-foot-3, 294 pounds, and he had 85 1/3-inch arms, really good in terms of the thresholds that the NFL is looking for that position. He’s getting a chance to play in a completely different role than he did the last couple years at Virginia. He was playing as a two-gap and five technique, which really required him to be more of a point-of-attack player and hold the line of scrimmage and hold two gaps and he didn’t really get a chance to attack and play four, attack half a man — use his physical gifts that he has. It became really apparent immediately in practice that this guy has ridiculously good movement skills in terms of how flexible he is for his size. His hands are really powerful and they’re really quick. Getting the chance in the team stuff to play as a three technique in kind of a penetrating role where he’s getting to tap into those physical traits and cut loose, he really took advantage of that. I think what it came down to was that he was put in a role that really highlighted his strengths and he took full advantage. It’s really a contrast from what he was doing the last couple years at Virginia. I think that’s where he popped, it’s just being able to function in his most optimal role.”

DP: Has he improved gradually over the season, or is it really just something people are noticing right now?

JM: “It just comes down to people that had been familiar with him, and I am one of those people. I watched his film over the summer to get ready for the season. I really liked what I saw. You could see that he was a really strong guy that had those flashes where the burst was there and then the athleticism was there. But the role limited him. And then I was actually credentialed for the Indiana game, so I came down and saw him. Even in that game I thought that he held his gaps really well. There were times that he just owned that side of the line of scrimmage, defending two gaps. The power was there; you knew it was there. A tremendous point-of-attack player. Now that he’s unleashed, and in this context, he’s unleashed, he’s playing really, really well. It goes back to that he’s a five-star recruit. He was the No. 1 defensive tackle in the nation. He’s always been physically gifted, it’s just that role doesn’t lend itself to a lot of production, so I think there’s a disconnect because the expectations were so high for him. He started his career so slow, 10 tackles over the first two seasons and that recruiting class was so highly built, which is not normal for Virginia. So everyone kind of jumped on this. And all development is not the same. It takes guys different rates to show everything they can do. That really does come down to being in the right role. He was finally in the right role this week, and showcased his immense talent.” 

 

DP: Have these past few days been big for his draft stock?

JM: “Absolutely, it’s big. Now, if you were looking at him on tape and thinking to yourself, ‘Well, we like his traits, I just don’t know if he can be a three-technique,’ well now I know he can. And we know he can play a five technique. So he’s going to offer a lot of numbers. I talked to him after the first practice. He was so excited to play the three technique role. He loved it. He said it felt normal to him because he used to have to be more relaxed in his stance and his assignments on any given play. And he lit up when I asked if it was because he was playing three technique. He was like, ‘Yeah, I love being able to attack and be aggressive.’ And so I said, ‘Is this your best role at the next level?’ And you can tell he had a lot of enthusiasm.”

DP: Where has he been on your draft board and where will he be now?

JM: “I still have a lot of work to do to say, ‘He’s my X rated defensive lineman or he has this grade.’ But certainly this week helps, because he showed a well-rounded skillset that really accentuated his physical gifts. This is going really going to help his evaluation. Whatever I thought of him going into the week, it’s even better. I was high on him going in, he was a player that — we have some 20 staff members that really enjoyed his film and thought that he could play. I think we have a really positive taste in our mouths after seeing a few practices.” 

 

 

[krunk]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

Andrew Brown was a 5 star recruit. From what I've heard he was pigeonholed into a 34 two gap scheme that didn't fit him and that he played great when they put him as a 1 gap penetrator at the senior bowl. Here's a little bit on it here:

 

http://www.dailyprogress.com/cavalierinsider/q-a-nfl-draft-analyst-weighs-in-on-andrew-brown/article_6d02e952-02bd-11e8-94e0-63c098edf55c.html

 

 

Good incite!  I didn't know they had him two gapping.   Haven't done a whole lot of studying on him, but the little film I watched I felt he moved really well.

[stitches]

According to Bryan Broaddus from the Draft Show, multiple teams have taken Hurst off their boards despite Michigan's doctors clearing him. 

 

The part about Hurst is at about 31:00:

http://www.dallascowboys.com/video/2018/04/05/draft-show-reviewing-danes-big-board

 

He might fall... 

[krunk]

7 minutes ago, stitches said:

According to Bryan Broaddus from the Draft Show, multiple teams have taken Hurst off their boards despite Michigan's doctors clearing him. 

 

The part about Hurst is at about 31:00:

http://www.dallascowboys.com/video/2018/04/05/draft-show-reviewing-danes-big-board

 

He might fall... 

That's what I was saying when we spoke about this weeks ago.  I still have a little bit of a feeling he'll go late in the first but the above is what I said would cause his fall.  They are scared it will be a Nick Fairley situation.

[Scott Pennock]

In a "rebuild" where you are looking for core players I think the FO passes on Hurst (regardless of talent) due to the risk of injury history. 

 

Caveat to that would be if he's still hanging around in the 4th or 5th round.