2017-2018 Indiana Pacers and Everything NBA Thread

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Don't get carried away..

The ACC tourney isn't the same at the NCAA tourney...because you don't have to win.

In fact, you're often better off losing in your conference tournament

 

 

….and the ESPN things are called.. 'Breaking News'    their words, not mine.

…..How is it news to say that someone 'might be' a game-time decision.

 

That's like saying Friday that Kevin Love 'might be' a game-time decision for Sunday.

Not whether he would play. Not when they would decide whether he would play.

But that his status might or might not be a game-time decision.

Its an exercise in the obvious.. See?

 

 

The level of play does not affect the body

It worked because you are talking about it

 

 

    

[2006Coltsbestever]

20 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

I agree...I don't think that 'reaching 8 consecutive NBA finals (as impressive as it is) is an achievement at the level of winning back-to-back (or back-to-back to back) titles.

 

Few teams win back-to-back..because its very, very hard.

Golden State has never done it...LeBron's teams have never done it

Yeah I don't have a problem with putting LeBron on my Mt Rushmore now = in the 4 best to play. I do still think he has a better team around him than people think. He usually always has at least 1 or 2 other guys step up in big games. Last night it was Jeff Green. I look at Jordan's resume and it = 6 Championships, 5 League MVP's, 6 Finals MVP's, 10 Time Scoring Champ, 9 Time 1st Team All-Defense. I honestly think it's impossible for anyone to ever catch him for GOAT. Kareem's resume = 6 Championships, 6 League MVP's, All-Time Leading Scorer in NBA history, but he only has 2 Finals MVP's - still an impressive resume. To me Magic Johnson was the better player when he and Kareem together by my eye test is to why Kareem only has 2 Finals MVP's. Magic's resume = 5 Championships, 9 Appearances, 3 League MVP's, 3 Finals MVP's, Magic won Finals MVP in his Rookie season when Kareem couldn't play, and he is the All-Time Leader in Assist average in NBA history at 11.2 a game. Not even John Stockton averaged that per game and all he did was pass, Magic could score as well averaging nearly 20 a game for his career. LeBron's resume = 3 Championships, 9 Appearances now like Magic, 4 League MVP's, 3 Finals MVP's. He and Magic's resume are pretty even but Magic only played 12 seasons due to the HIV Virus. Had Magic played 15 or 16 seasons who knows how many more accolades he would've won? LeBron Finals record at 3-5 needs to improve too before I can move him up to #2. Magic stayed above .500 at 5-4. These are my takes and having LeBron 4th is far being a hater, if anyone thinks I am hater with that list they must have a man crush on the dude LOL. I just Posted everyone's resume to show what has been accomplished by each player which is all factual.

 

-I never seen Wilt or Russell play so I am going by players I have watched closely in my lifetime + as Princeton Tiger pointed out that era was way different back then. Players like Bird, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan were all Great too.

[oldunclemark]

Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

 

The level of play does not affect the body

It worked because you are talking about it

 

 

    

Fans may not understand but the level of pressure (your season can end in the NCAA tournament) does affect the body....What's on the line most certainly does affect the body

 

and again,. and I know you know this....but ESPN is saying the obvious...….  . Folks are watching whether Paul plays or not. ..and ESPN isn't trying to promote a game that's on TNT...so nothing they say will get me or you or any pro bbasketball fan to watch ESPN tonight.

 

It was a non-news announcement of 'Breaking News'.  I know you agree.

[oldunclemark]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

 

 

-I never seen Wilt or Russell play so I am going by players I have watched closely in my lifetime + as Princeton Tiger pointed out that era was way different back then. Players like Bird, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan were all Great too.

Can you judge the all-time greatness of players (in their era) excluding the ones you never saw play?

Isnt that impossible

 

[oldunclemark]

  Many today assume Wilt wasnt THAT good because of the size of players he faced.

The same could be said of Michael Jordan, right?

Edited May 28, 2018 by oldunclemark

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, oldunclemark said:

Can you judge the all-time greatness of players (in their era) excluding the ones you never saw play?

Isnt that impossible

 

Yeah I already Posted that a while back. In the 60's from what I have seen on video and going by Stats I had Wilt #1 despite Russell winning 11 Championships, Wilt's dominance and his numbers were video game like. Russell #2, Robertson #3.

[PrincetonTiger]

3 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Fans may not understand but the level of pressure (your season can end in the NCAA tournament) does affect the body....What's on the line most certainly does affect the body

 

and again,. and I know you know this....but ESPN is saying the obvious...….  . Folks are watching whether Paul plays or not. ..and ESPN isn't trying to promote a game that's on TNT...so nothing they say will get me or you or any pro bbasketball fan to watch ESPN tonight.

 

It was a non-news announcement of 'Breaking News'.  I know you agree.

I have multiple sports at multiple levels

[oldunclemark]

  We like to talk about how many Hall-of=-Fame players so-and-so played against.....

...but we don't know how many Hall-of-Fame players LBJ is playing again

 

If Victor Oladipo, Myles Turbner and Domas Sabonis become Hall-of-Famers..then L:ebron beat a team with 3 of them.

LeBron may be playing WITH 2 Hall-of-famers  in Love and Korver, right?

We don't know .

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

  Many today assume Wilt wasnt THAT good because of the size of players he faced.

The same could be said of Michael Jordan, right?

Same for Michael Jordan how? Players in the 80's and 90's were just as big/tall as they are now. Jordan went up against Drexler and Reggie who are both 6'7, Magic was 6'9. Magic was an oversized Point Guard but he still had guys like Pippen guard him, etc..

[oldunclemark]

9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah I already Posted that a while back. In the 60's from what I have seen on video and going by Stats I had Wilt #1 despite Russell winning 11 Championships, Wilt's dominance and his numbers were video game like. Russell #2, Robertson #3.

Dont get me wrong..I'm not saying you are wrong..by ranking players all-time

I just need a barometer to judge, lets say,  Wilt vs. Michael...I don't have one

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Same for Michael Jordan how? Players in the 80's and 90's were just as big/tall as they are now. Jordan went up against Drexler and Reggie who are both 6'7, Magic was 6'9. Magic was an oversized Point Guard but he still had guys like Pippen guard him, etc..

I am concerned with career longevity 

[oldunclemark]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Same for Michael Jordan how? Players in the 80's and 90's were just as big/tall as they are now. Jordan went up against Drexler and Reggie who are both 6'7, Magic was 6'9. Magic was an oversized Point Guard but he still had guys like Pippen guard him, etc..

No..there was no 6-11 Kevin Durant or 6-9, 270 LBJ playing the permiter in the 80s and 90s

There was no Bobby Simmons playing lead guard at 6-foot-10...of Kris Porzingas playing small forward at 7-foot-2, right?

 

[oldunclemark]

6 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

I am concerned with career longevity 

I agree...to be 'greatest' (or in the discussion) ..I think you had to play 10-15 years

You can be great playing less than that..but not in discussion to be the greatest.

 

I know Sandy Koufax might be the best LHP of al time.

Gayle Sayers might have been the best running back of all time.

 

But 'greatest' in my mind, would require them to play longer than they played

Edited May 28, 2018 by oldunclemark

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, oldunclemark said:

No..there was no 6-11 Kevin Durant or 6-9, 270 LBJ playing the permiter in the 80s and 90s

There was no Bobby Simmons playing lead guard at 6-foot-10...of Kris Porzingas playing small forward at 7-foot-2, right?

 

During the 80's/90's every SF was at least 6'7-6'9 - Bird, Wilkins, Worthy, Pippen are just 4 examples of that and all are Hall of Famers. The athletes in the 80's/90's were just as great IMO. In todays game nobody is more athletic than Dominque Wilkins was. Every Center was pretty much 7'0 tall as well in the 80's/90's. The only thing Centers do today better is shoot from the outside. I don't see a big difference, JMO. Durant is just a rare example at 6'11, most SF's in this ERA are between 6'7-6'9. Leonard is 6'7 at SF and when healthy a Top 5 player in the league.

[oldunclemark]

12 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

During the 80's/90's every SF was at least 6'7-6'9 - Bird, Wilkins, Worthy, Pippen are just 4 examples of that and all are Hall of Famers. The athletes in the 80's/90's were just as great IMO. In todays game nobody is more athletic than Dominque Wilkins was. Every Center was pretty much 7'0 tall as well in the 80's/90's. The only thing Centers do today better is shoot from the outside. I don't see a big difference, JMO. Durant is just a rare example at 6'11, most SF's in this ERA are between 6'7-6'9. Leonard is 6'7 at SF and when healthy a Top 5 player in the league.

..When you talk about athletic..and 'just as great' you are highlighting the ranking issue

………………….which is the genesis of the criticism of Wilt and the Michael vs. LBJ debate

The athletes in the 80s and 90s WERE just as great.

But the athletes of the 60s were also great..,Guys like Wilt, Oscar and Elgin Baylor

 

Forget centrers  Folks can only get so tall. Artis Gilmore was 7-foot-2,, right?

But the other positions have gotten bigger and taller. That's not an opinion.

Positions have become hybrids. There was no one the size of LBJ, Anthony Davis and Kevin Durant playing the perimeter.  Paul George is a 6-foot-9 'small'  forward...It doesn't make them greater.....

//That's exactly what I'm saying and why Im still looking for a universal mutli-era barometer of greatness..

[aaron11]

34 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

  We like to talk about how many Hall-of=-Fame players so-and-so played against.....

...but we don't know how many Hall-of-Fame players LBJ is playing again

 

If Victor Oladipo, Myles Turbner and Domas Sabonis become Hall-of-Famers..then L:ebron beat a team with 3 of them.

LeBron may be playing WITH 2 Hall-of-famers  in Love and Korver, right?

We don't know .

the hall of fame isnt too hard to predict

 

victor has a chance, i dont see it with turner.  sabonis hasnt really played enough to say, but i would lean towards no at the moment 

 

as for love and korver, it would be a no for me on both.  love is the hardest to predict of all of these guys 

[PrincetonTiger]

14 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

the hall of fame isnt too hard to predict

 

victor has a chance, i dont see it with turner.  sabonis hasnt really played enough to say, but i would lean towards no at the moment 

 

as for love and korver, it would be a no for me on both.  love is the hardest to predict of all of these guys 

HOFs are very predictable and very few of those guys will not because they are not marquee guys and/or play in forgotten Fly Over Markets

[oldunclemark]

26 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

the hall of fame isnt too hard to predict

 

victor has a chance, i dont see it with turner.  sabonis hasnt really played enough to say, but i would lean towards no at the moment 

 

as for love and korver, it would be a no for me on both.  love is the hardest to predict of all of these guys 

The Hall-of-Fame is very hard to predict a decade in advance.

Everybody has a chance.  Of course Sabonis and Turner 'could be' Hall of Famers. They're 22 years old

…….you have no idea which 22, 23 year old players will play well the next 10 years

I cant predict one year much less the next 10...

 

For example...Is DeMarcus Cousins a Hall-of-Famer....

He has a very serious injury. Will he bounce back. Maybe. .Will he play next year. ? I'm not sure.

Is Paul George a Hall-of-Famer...

I say 'yes';...I've heard the talk show heads say 'no'...

 

So ranking players achievements by the Hall-of-Famers they played against isn't a good barometer until years after every player in that era becomes eligible for the Hall

 

Edited May 28, 2018 by oldunclemark

[aaron11]

32 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

The Hall-of-Fame is very hard to predict a decade in advance.

Everybody has a chance.  Of course Sabonis and Turner 'could be' Hall of Famers. They're 22 years old

…….you have no idea which 22, 23 year old players will play well the next 10 years

I cant predict one year much less the next 10...

 

For example...Is DeMarcus Cousins a Hall-of-Famer....

He has a very serious injury. Will he bounce back. Maybe. .Will he play next year. ? I'm not sure.

Is Paul George a Hall-of-Famer...

I say 'yes';...I've heard the talk show heads say 'no'...

 

So ranking players achievements by the Hall-of-Famers they played against isn't a good barometer until years after every player in that era becomes eligible for the Hall

 

i dont see it with turner.  sabonis hasnt had enough playing time to be in the discussion, i guess i kind of agree there

 

ill just give my opinion on the guys mentioned.

 

victor- has a legit chance if he can build on last year

paul george- hes in

korvor- no

cousins- no, had the talent but he didnt win enough 

love- tough call.  he was the best player on a bad team but was never the leader of a good team.  hes been really hit or miss in Cleveland 

[Colts_Fan12]

2 hours ago, aaron11 said:

i dont see it with turner.  sabonis hasnt had enough playing time to be in the discussion, i guess i kind of agree there

 

ill just give my opinion on the guys mentioned.

 

victor- has a legit chance if he can build on last year

paul george- hes in

korvor- no

cousins- no, had the talent but he didnt win enough 

love- tough call.  he was the best player on a bad team but was never the leader of a good team.  hes been really hit or miss in Cleveland 

How is Turner a no hes 22 you have no idea what he will do you just have a vendetta against him like 90% of pacers fans cause hes not Anthony Davis 

[PrincetonTiger]

6 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

How is Turner a no hes 22 you have no idea what he will do you just have a vendetta against him like 90% of pacers fans cause hes not Anthony Davis 

IMO

  he is a who knows since he is not yet a marquee player to most and he plays in Indiana 

[Colts_Fan12]

2 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

IMO

  he is a who knows since he is not yet a marquee player to most and he plays in Indiana 

Yeah I agree someone that young no one has a clue how they will do he could turn into the best big ever for all anyone knows or he could be average predicting someone's career is a horrible idea 

[aaron11]

1 hour ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

How is Turner a no hes 22 you have no idea what he will do you just have a vendetta against him like 90% of pacers fans cause hes not Anthony Davis 

i like centers that rebound and hate getting killed on the boards by Cleveland 

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

CP3 ruled out of Game 7. Iggy ruled out as well.

[oldunclemark]

27 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

CP3 ruled out of Game 7. Iggy ruled out as well.

Houston needs help from somebody who hasnt done anything so far..and I dont know who it would be.

 

They cant go with just 6 players

[oldunclemark]

5 hours ago, aaron11 said:

i dont see it with turner.  sabonis hasnt had enough playing time to be in the discussion, i guess i kind of agree there

 

ill just give my opinion on the guys mentioned.

 

victor- has a legit chance if he can build on last year

paul george- hes in

korvor- no

cousins- no, had the talent but he didnt win enough 

love- tough call.  he was the best player on a bad team but was never the leader of a good team.  hes been really hit or miss in Cleveland 

I think Kevin Love is a sure Hall of Fame player if he lasts another 2-3 years.  He's 29

He has the all-star selections and the NBA finals' win.

But its a projection because..he hasn't played long enough yet

 

Kyle Korver is intersting….he averages just 10 points a game over his career..

..but he's led the NBA in 3-point shooting four times and this is his second NBA finals

He's played long enough and he's been on winning teams...

I would vote yes on him even if he retires after this season

[oldunclemark]

  GAME 7:  Houston 24, GSW 19....3 fouls on Klay Thompson

 

GSW has used 9 players already..trying to wear the Rockets down

[oldunclemark]

They're saying the Chris Paul could not play until Game 3 on the finals if Houston wins.

..and that Andre Igudola isn't improving..no idea when he'll be okay if GSW wins

[oldunclemark]

36-year-old Joe Johnson in the game for Houston in the second quarter......shocking

Edited May 29, 2018 by oldunclemark

[oldunclemark]

GAME 7: Houston 54, GSW 43..- half - Clint Capela has 14

 

GSW fans must feel like Pacer fans do....The Warriors have a terrible if falling behind 10-15 in the first half and then doing the 'dramatic rally' thing..GSW has 10 turnovers...6 of 21 on 3s....,,

...but here comes the 3rd quarter  Houston was up 10 at the half of Game 6, too

Edited May 29, 2018 by oldunclemark

[dgambill]

10 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

GAME 7: Houston 54, GSW 43..- half - Clint Capela has 14

 

GSW fans must feel like Pacer fans do....The Warriors have a terrible if falling behind 10-15 in the first half and then doing the 'dramatic rally' thing..GSW has 10 turnovers...6 of 21 on 3s....,,

...but here comes the 3rd quarter  Houston was up 10 at the half of Game 6, too

Couple differences...Durant doesn’t look engaged...Houston is playing desperate and killing on the boards. Thompson is in foul trouble and most importantly Houston went to their bench early buying minutes here and there for Harden and some starters. Anderson and Johnson might not have scored but it’s keeping Houston starters fresh.

[oldunclemark]

6 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Couple differences...Durant doesn’t look engaged...Houston is playing desperate and killing on the boards. Thompson is in foul trouble and most importantly Houston went to their bench early buying minutes here and there for Harden and some starters. Anderson and Johnson might not have scored but it’s keeping Houston starters fresh.

But GSW looks bad consistently in the first half....and then they rally.

Houston is still going mainly with 6 guys..Johnson was out there 3 minutes

 

GSW just got a big break when harden hit a 3 nd the ref ruled he was fouled but not in the act of shooting..cost Houston 4 points

58-53 now..

[dgambill]

2 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

GSW just got a big break when harden hit a 3 nd the ref ruled he was fouled but not in the act of shooting..cost Houston 4 points

Lots of questionable calls so far. Not impressed with refs.

[oldunclemark]

6 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Lots of questionable calls so far. Not impressed with refs.

I hear you...….Refs are letting a lot of contact go......its getting ugly

[Chrisaaron1023]

Rockets getting tired

[MTC]

Warriors are getting almost every call. 

[PrincetonTiger]

9 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Lots of questionable calls so far. Not impressed with refs.

You act shocked 

[oldunclemark]

3 minutes ago, MTC said:

Warriors are getting almost every call. 

Refs are not giving Harden the calls he's gotten all year..64-61 GSW

[Chrisaaron1023]

Curry cooking and Klay still resting

[oldunclemark]

No centers and no Power forwards the floor for either side

Houston 6 of 37 on 3s....at home