Vikings are trading for Eagles' QB Sam Bradford

[southwest1]

On September 3, 2016 at 7:05 PM, NFLfan said:

 

When Peyton went down, were you guys confident that Painter could win any games? Shaun Hill is worse than what Painter was then.

I beg to differ my friend. Curtis Painter gave a whole new meaning to lowering the bar on sucking in 2011. 

[southwest1]

On September 3, 2016 at 7:12 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Talent wise Bradford is much better than Hill, I just question his durability more than anything. I would rather take my chances with Bradford though more than I would a QB like Kaepernick or Sanchez. So we will see. Painter may have been the worse QB in NFL history.

That's why I respect you man. You speak the truth my brother. Preach. 

[southwest1]

NFL fan, 

 

I want your team to do well, but Bradford folds like a cheap tent under pressure. He's decent when he can climb the pocket, but if get love taps on him early, it's a rap. He's totally useless under fire. He just is. Sorry. 

[NFLfan]

6 hours ago, southwest1 said:

NFL fan, 

 

I want your team to do well, but Bradford folds like a cheap tent under pressure. He's decent when he can climb the pocket, but if get love taps on him early, it's a rap. He's totally useless under fire. He just is. Sorry. 

 

Thanks for the well wishes. Lol.

 

You have made similar negative comments about Teddy; so I am not surprised you feel this way. Even if Bradford goes down with an injury or if he fails, I still think it was worth the risk to give us a better chance to win.  Despite having a top five RB in Peterson and having a strong, underrated defense, we were not going to win more than six games with Shaun Hill at QB. 

 

Let's see what happens. I trust Rick Spielman and Mike Zimmer.  

[NFLfan]

6 hours ago, southwest1 said:

I beg to differ my friend. Curtis Painter gave a whole new meaning to lowering the bar on sucking in 2011. 

 

So were you pleased that your GM did not make a move to give your team a chance to win? If Painter is worse than Shaun Hill, then I don't understand why your team did not try to acquire a better player.  

[ColtsBlueFL]

On 9/3/2016 at 11:36 AM, Jared Cisneros said:

There's a difference between giving up on the season and giving up the ultimate draft currency for a mediocre qb for one year. Ultimate risk/reward, I can't imagine the fanbase is happy about it at all. It seems irresponsible that you are trying to force yourselves to be a threat when this year it's just not going to happen. If you make the playoffs and lose, now what? Do you start Bradford because of the price you paid for him? Bridgewater? This was a strange moment, and I don't see you as SB contenders (sorry). I do believe you may trade a player or two to get a pick back though, so I will wait before casting judgment. I hope it works out for the vikings.

 

and-

 

On 9/3/2016 at 8:38 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I guess the Vikings really had no choice if they wanted to have a shot to make the Playoffs but man giving up a 1st Rounder is a huge gamble on a guy that has trouble staying healthy.

 

We all get the draft pick mania.  OTOH, sometimes, I think people overvalue them, like they are freaking automatic winning lotto tickets.  GM's that hit on 50% in a career are average.  55% or greater you go to the HOF (Bill Polian). <50% and you're the next Matt Millen.  Real numbers coming up here.

 

Since 1999, (right after Peyton) here are first round draft QB busts-

 

Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Cade McNown, Kyle Boller, J.P. Losman, Jason Campbell, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Jamarcus Russel, Brady Quinn, Josh Freeman, Tim Tebow, Jake Locker, Christian Ponder,and Johnny Manzeil.

 

Then there are more the journeyman backup level type QB's taken in round 1, nearly busts-

 

David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey, Mark Sanchez, Blaine Gabbert, Robert Griffin III, and EJ Manuel.

 

Vikes need a QB, Bradford is a proven and solid starter when healthy.  QB Busts even in high rounds are numerous.  Thus, price for a QB is quite high as well.  Every team wants and needs one, and they are not plentiful and they aren't cheap.  The conditional 4th is gravy.  If the Vikes win the Super Bowl, giving up another  mid round draft was worth it too.  But as mentioned, the only caveat is can the Vikes keep Bradford's jersey clean?

 

On 9/3/2016 at 9:10 PM, jvan1973 said:

Bradford has a game to play in 8 days.    I have a hard time believing he will know much of the playbook.   The have up a 1 st rounder next year for an unproven guy .  

 

 

He has 8 days to get the language and the game plan down, not the whole playbook.  The playbook can have thousands of plays, the game plan as little as 100- to 200.

 

On 9/3/2016 at 9:10 PM, jvan1973 said:

Bradford had the 3rd worst qbr of any qb last year

 

Nice cherry pick.  Here's one in return, Luck was 34th out of 36 QB's last year right below Colin Kaepernick and right above Johnny Manzeil, while Bradford was #12 and Bridgewater #16

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-pffs-2015-nfl-quarterback-rankings/

 

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

Everybody seems so fired up about giving up draft picks.  I did some studying, when I read that there are NO 2nd or 3rd round draft picks from 2012 - 2015 on the Tennessee Titans.  None.  That's a boatload of 2nd and 3rd round drafts that eventually proved to be a total waste.  Come to find out, it is more than just the Titans, and the reason GM's that are over notably 50% career draft selectors (players that are a starter or solid contributors to the franchise) are held in high regard. Here's the analytics on draft picks.  They are charted based upon 2 versions of 'Bust'.  One, for middle and upper round picks, is a marginal role player that has limited game experience and contributes little to no value to an NFL franchise. Here's the graph-

 

Beginning in round 4, there is a 50%-80% chance of your draft pick being a 'Bust', as defined above.

 

Now, for round 1, and also round 2 and 3 picks, the expectations go up a notch.  So bust is now measured whether drafted player can start and / or contribute at a high level for years to come.  So the metric to 'Bust' would be start less than one year and / or plays less than 40 games in their career.  Here's the Bust level for all players to that standard-

 

 

At the end of round two, there's a 50% chance of landing a starter.  Toward the end of round 3, around a 30% of landing a starter.  Sometimes, a team needs a proven starter now, and is willing to trade these percentages above into that proven guy now, letting another team gamble on the elite or bust draft lotto.  And, as my previous post above points out, bust levels for round 1 QB's are even higher, and thus the price for a solid starting QB (even an average one) that contributes to the Franchise is fairly steep.  It was a steep price for the Vikes, but all thugs considered, a very good move in my estimation.

 

If Bradford stays healhty, keeps his accuracy up, and reduces his turnovers some, I feel Minnesota will make some big noise in the NFC this year.  Their odds of winning the Super Bowl?  20 - 1.  The Colts odds of winning the Super Bowl?  35 - 1.

 

http://www.footballlocks.com/nfl_futures_super_bowl_sorted_by_odds.shtml

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

So were you pleased that your GM did not make a move to give your team a chance to win? If Painter is worse than Shaun Hill, then I don't understand why your team did not try to acquire a better player.  

I have to admit I actually didn't mind we did very little after we started 0-5 because at that point I knew the season was over and Andrew Luck was there waiting in the next Draft. Getting the worst record in the league would land us Andrew. Had Andrew not been there then I would've minded bigtime. I never root for our team to lose or tank(what ever people want to label it) but I knew the season was a lost cause when we started 0-5 with Peyton out. Our team had a lot of aging vets as well so I knew we needed a rebuild. Our situation was different than your teams now. You guys have the best RB in the league and don't need a rebuild. In a nut shell that should answer your question why we didn't try to acquire a better player at QB in 2011. *We actually did for a quick minute to start the season as we gave Kerry Collins a shot but he was washed up.

[ColtsBlueFL]

8 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

So were you pleased that your GM did not make a move to give your team a chance to win? If Painter is worse than Shaun Hill, then I don't understand why your team did not try to acquire a better player.  

 

Actually, when it became a real possibility the Peyton would not be ready to play, Polian did make a move.  He knew Curtis Painter wasn't ready to lead a playoff/SB caliber team, so he looked for a QB.  Unfortunately, he panicked and went after a guy he had drafted for the Carolina Panthers in 1995, Kerry Collins, a 38 year old QB that had just retired.  It was reported Polian also looked into Marc Bulger and Jake Delhomme as well.  We all wish he would have taken one of of those 2, because Kerry Collins was plain awful.  And Reggie Wayne was not a happy camper.  Wayne was Ready to Roll with Painter, good or (Really!) bad. Collins soon went on IR with a concussion and Painter was, well, Painter.

 

Other teams fans accused us of not trying to get a better QB (like a Sam Bradford type deal) and 'Tanking' the season. "Suck for Luck" style. Nobody will ever accuse the Vikings of tanking 2016. Ever.

[NFLfan]

50 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I have to admit I actually didn't mind we did very little after we started 0-5 because at that point I knew the season was over and Andrew Luck was there waiting in the next Draft. Getting the worst record in the league would land us Andrew. Had Andrew not been there then I would've minded bigtime. I never root for our team to lose or tank(what ever people want to label it) but I knew the season was a lost cause when we started 0-5 with Peyton out. Our team had a lot of aging vets as well so I knew we needed a rebuild. Our situation was different than your teams now. You guys have the best RB in the league and don't need a rebuild. In a nut shell that should answer your question why we didn't try to acquire a better player at QB in 2011. *We actually did for a quick minute to start the season as we gave Kerry Collins a shot but he was washed up.

 

I cannot recall but did Peyton start the season? 

 

You're right. Our situation is different. After the injury we believed we were a quarterback away from having a very successful season. To not address the QB situation would have been a bad message to send to the team and to the fans. I don't know how quickly Bradford can learn the offense and establish timing and rapport with the other players, but we have to wait and see. At least I have some hope that we are playing for a playoff spot.

 

"Remember, Red, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies." My favorite movie.

[dgambill]

18 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

Yep, I agree.  The fan base had very high hopes for this year. Teddy was looking great and the coaching staff vowed to make the offense less predictable. That injury brought everyone down. I had a similar feeling when we lost that NFCCG after the 15-1 season in Jan 1999 . This trade brought our hopes up again, as it says we are not throwing in the towel and waving the white flag. Now if Bradford gets injured, then everyone will say it was a bad move. I don't see it that way. It was a good risk to take regardless of how it turns out. 

 

We have a talented team. We could not go into the season with Shawn Hill as the starting quarterback. I hated giving up a first round pick but sometimes it is necessary. Bradford was the best option among all the realistic ones. I would have loved Rivers but he is not going anywhere.

 

BTW, glad to see you posting again. Your objectivity is always appreciated. 

I agree it was the best available qb that you could get. That team looked devastated by Teddy going down. With Teddy out likely even into next season as well I don't see how you can throw away 2 seasons of prime AP and that defense to just give up and wait for Teddy to come back. That team is built to win now and trading a later first rd pick isn't too much to give up for a quality starting qb. Honestly Bradford and Teddy is about a wash on quality at this point in their careers. I think Teddy COULD have been better but right now both were probably around 20th best qb in the league in my book so Minnesota shouldn't be hampered to much this year. Start slow probably but should come on later in the year I believe. Plus the Eagles ate a big portion of Sam's contract so they aren't financially hurt.

 

Yeah I don't post much in the offseason...honestly there is only so much to talk about with football without going insane during the down time. Most people just want to drudge up old arguments and not a lot of new information is discussed so I take a break. Now that the season is about to start full swing I'm excited to watch our 2016 Colts.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, NFLfan said:

 

I cannot recall but did Peyton start the season? 

 

You're right. Our situation is different. After the injury we believed we were a quarterback away from having a very successful season. To not address the QB situation would have been a bad message to send to the team and to the fans. I don't know how quickly Bradford can learn the offense and establish timing and rapport with the other players, but we have to wait and see. At least I have some hope that we are playing for a playoff spot.

 

"Remember, Red, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies." My favorite movie.

No, Peyton didn't play at all, so even before the season started all Colts fans knew when he was declared out that it would probably be a bad season with the aging Vets we had. We started with Kerry Collins and he absolutely stunk, then we rolled with Painter and Orlovsky.

[NFLfan]

4 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Actually, when it became a real possibility the Peyton would not be ready to play, Polian did make a move.  He knew Curtis Painter wasn't ready to lead a playoff/SB caliber team, so he looked for a QB.  Unfortunately, he panicked and went after a guy he had drafted for the Carolina Panthers in 1995, Kerry Collins, a 38 year old QB that had just retired.  It was reported Polian also looked into Marc Bulger and Jake Delhomme as well.  We all wish he would have taken one of of those 2, because Kerry Collins was plain awful.  And Reggie Wayne was not a happy camper.  Wayne was Ready to Roll with Painter, good or (Really!) bad. Collins soon went on IR with a concussion and Painter was, well, Painter.

 

Other teams fans accused us of not trying to get a better QB (like a Sam Bradford type deal) and 'Tanking' the season. "Suck for Luck" style. Nobody will ever accuse the Vikings of tanking 2016. Ever.

 

Thanks, now I remember. While I was a Vikings fan, I followed the Colts because I was a Tony Dungy fan and got to like many of the players. It was like my AFC team at the time. I was so disappointed when the Colts continued to lose.  It was very disappointing. But then the Colts drafted Luck, the quarterback of my favorite college team.  So, it turned out okay for the Colts at the end.

 

There is no player of Luck's caliber that the Vikes  would select in the coming draft. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Thanks, now I remember. While I was a Vikings fan, I followed the Colts because I was a Tony Dungy fan and got to like many of the players. It was like my AFC team at the time. I was so disappointed when the Colts continued to lose.  It was very disappointing. But then the Colts drafted Luck, the quarterback of my favorite college team.  So, it turned out okay for the Colts at the end.

 

There is no player of Luck's caliber that the Vikes  would select in the coming draft. 

Yeah we picked the right season to stink it up after winning 10 or more games from 2002-2010. 2011! It gave us Luck so it's all good.

[dgambill]

On ‎9‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 7:12 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Talent wise Bradford is much better than Hill, I just question his durability more than anything. I would rather take my chances with Bradford though more than I would a QB like Kaepernick or Sanchez. So we will see. Painter may have been the worse QB in NFL history.

I agree. He is controlled for the next two years at a reasonable rate (sorry but Teddy won't be ready for the start of next season either) and he is familiar with some of the offensive staff especially Pat Shurmur his ex-offensive coordinator from Philly. It will take him time to learn the new offense up there but the staff has a good understanding of what he can do and should be able to communicate well with him. Sanchez and Kaep I don't think would add anything positive to their situation.

[Jules]

On 9/4/2016 at 8:00 PM, crazycolt1 said:

I think the Lions might give a little competition. Even without Bridgewater I think the Vikings defense could keep them in the game long enough to maybe win a few.

It might not be the run away with the way the Packers played last season?

 

Oh, I don't think the Vikings are completely dead yet. I just think the Pack are due again this year, maybe........

I was already picking Green Bay all offseason anyway for the most part.

 

Not sure about the Bears or Lions yet. Bears might be decent on defense. I think with the Lions we will know more this weekend.  I know they started badly last year but won some games in the second half of the season and nearly sweeped Green Bay. Hard to tell with those guys right now.....have to see more to believe it.

 

I just think it sets up nicely for Rodgers and the boys this year overall. 

[NFLfan]

18 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah we picked the right season to stink it up after winning 10 or more games from 2002-2010. 2011! It gave us Luck so it's all good.

 

I meant to ask you something. What does your relative (the Vikings fan ) think about Teddy’s injury and the trade? 

[2006Coltsbestever]

15 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

I meant to ask you something. What does your relative (the Vikings fan ) think about Teddy’s injury and the trade? 

I haven't talked to him since the trade went down. I will call him later on. Surprised he didn't call me after the trade. I talked to him when Teddy got injured and he still seemed up beat LOL. I guess when you have Peterson anything is possible!

[NFLfan]

37 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I haven't talked to him since the trade went down. I will call him later on. Surprised he didn't call me after the trade. I talked to him when Teddy got injured and he still seemed up beat LOL. I guess when you have Peterson anything is possible!

 

Wow. He was "upbeat"? He must not be a fan of Teddy's. Almost all Vikes fans were in bad spirits after Teddy's injury. We were in a state of mourning. Even critics of Teddy's were upset. My cousin who lives in MN described the mood there as "somber". He is from Miami and is a Dolphins fan .

 

If he does not like Teddy, I will bet he likes the trade.  Teddy's critics seem to like Bradford.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, NFLfan said:

 

Wow. He was "upbeat"? He must not be a fan of Teddy's. Almost all Vikes fans were in bad spirits after Teddy's injury. We were in a state of mourning. Even critics of Teddy's were upset. My cousin who lives in MN described the mood there as "somber". He is from Miami and is a Dolphins fan .

 

If he does not like Teddy, I will bet he likes the trade.  Teddy's critics seem to like Bradford.

He likes Teddy but still thought the Vikings would be a Playoff team because of the run game and Defense + he figured they would pick someone else up before the season started so he wasn't overly upset about the injury.  He was right Vikings did pick someone else up LOL, Vikings traded for Bradford.

[2006Coltsbestever]

@NFLfan, what I meant by upbeat is he was optimistic when I talked to him which is one of the meanings of upbeat. He wasn't in a cheery mood by no means  but still sounded positive. I figured I better explain this because I think you got the sense he thought the injury was no big deal.

[Jay Kirk]

1 hour ago, NFLfan said:

 

Wow. He was "upbeat"? He must not be a fan of Teddy's. Almost all Vikes fans were in bad spirits after Teddy's injury. We were in a state of mourning. Even critics of Teddy's were upset. My cousin who lives in MN described the mood there as "somber". He is from Miami and is a Dolphins fan .

 

If he does not like Teddy, I will bet he likes the trade.  Teddy's critics seem to like Bradford.

Bradford is no TB . Hes 1 dimensional and you must protect him very well or your in trouble. He will make bad choices when rushed.

[Valpo2004]

Honestly I think this is a terrible trade for the Vikings.  Bradford is just not that good.  He's not going to get you to the SB and he's likely not going to get you to the playoffs even with Adrian Peterson tearing through defenses.  

 

Should have tanked it IMO.  

[jvan1973]

52 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

Honestly I think this is a terrible trade for the Vikings.  Bradford is just not that good.  He's not going to get you to the SB and he's likely not going to get you to the playoffs even with Adrian Peterson tearing through defenses.  

 

Should have tanked it IMO.  

The vikes went to the playoffs with christian ponder a few years ago.   If AD has a big year,  They can make the playoffs I think

[NFLfan]

55 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

Honestly I think this is a terrible trade for the Vikings.  Bradford is just not that good.  He's not going to get you to the SB and he's likely not going to get you to the playoffs even with Adrian Peterson tearing through defenses.  

 

Should have tanked it IMO.  

 

 No way would I accept tanking. There is no one in the draft to tank for unless there is a left tackle that I don't know about. 

[NFLfan]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

@NFLfan, what I meant by upbeat is he was optimistic when I talked to him which is one of the meanings of upbeat. He wasn't in a cheery mood by no means  but still sounded positive. I figured I better explain this because I think you got the sense he thought the injury was no big deal.

 

No worries. I got you the first time.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, NFLfan said:

 

No worries. I got you the first time.  

He likes Teddy a lot but loves Peterson. I will give him a call later on today and ask him what he thinks of Bradford.

[Valpo2004]

1 hour ago, NFLfan said:

 

 No way would I accept tanking. There is no one in the draft to tank for unless there is a left tackle that I don't know about. 

 

Ahh you misunderstand me here.

 

This isn't suck for Luck.  This is suck for lots of draft picks.  You guys have Bridgewater, he should be ready next season.  You don't need a QB so you sell off that top pick to someone who does.  

 

Get the top pick, wait for draft to come around and some QB's to get hyped up.  Trade top pick for a couple of first rounders and a 2nd rounder or something like that. . .  Get someone to do what the Rams and Eagles did.  

Honestly I'd see if you couldn't have a fire sale of your aging top players like AP and Greenway and see if you can't get high picks for them.  I wouldn't let them go for like 6th rounders or something like that.  But find an idoit GM (Preferably not our GM, but you could probably fleece him too) who will give you a first rounder for AP.

 

Of course thats something that's emotionally painful to do for a fan base.  No one wants to trade away a guy who's been a star for them for the past decade, but I believe that to be the smart thing to do.  

 

Besides this draft class is suppose to be deep for RB's. 

 

 

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

 

 

17 hours ago, Jules said:

I just think it sets up nicely for Rodgers and the boys this year overall. 

 

Offensively I agree, yes. Jordy Nerlson back, thinner Lacy, Jared cook, etc...

 

But the Pack must have Rodgers and the O liight up the scoreboard.  I don't think their D will stifle too many opponents offenses in helping out.

[southwest1]

On September 5, 2016 at 6:52 AM, NFLfan said:

 

Thanks for the well wishes. Lol.

 

You have made similar negative comments about Teddy; so I am not surprised you feel this way. Even if Bradford goes down with an injury or if he fails, I still think it was worth the risk to give us a better chance to win.  Despite having a top five RB in Peterson and having a strong, underrated defense, we were not going to win more than six games with Shaun Hill at QB. 

 

Let's see what happens. I trust Rick Spielman and Mike Zimmer.  

Negative comments about Teddy? Since when? Are you referring to when I said that Bridgewater is about 2 seasons away from playing in SB? I stand by those remarks because without AP the Vikings wouldn't be able to carry your QB & you & I both know Teddy right now could not get a must win TD with his arm in under 40 seconds right now. He'll get there, but he's not there right now. 

[NFLfan]

2 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

Negative comments about Teddy? Since when? Are you referring to when I said that Bridgewater is about 2 seasons away from playing in SB? I stand by those remarks because without AP the Vikings wouldn't be able to carry your QB & you & I both know Teddy right now could not get a must win TD with his arm in under 40 seconds right now. He'll get there, but he's not there right now. 

 

No comment.

[southwest1]

On September 5, 2016 at 7:01 AM, NFLfan said:

 

So were you pleased that your GM did not make a move to give your team a chance to win? If Painter is worse than Shaun Hill, then I don't understand why your team did not try to acquire a better player.  

It's not about GM moves to improve a team at all. It's a difference of opinion saying that Painter was a better QB than Hill. He's just not. 

 

You're also forgetting that former GM Bill Polian in the past said that he thought Curtis could handle the QB load in Peyton's absence in 2011 a move he later acknowledged was a wrong judgement on his part in hindsight. Bill would have asked Jimmy for permission to search for another field general if he realized that Painter wasn't ready to be the man in INDY.  

[southwest1]

11 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

No comment.

That's fine. Friends don't always agree. I understand. To me, it's a time & development question. He'll make the Playoffs when healthy. I'm talkin' bout SB bling readiness NFLfan. Teddy's not close to the Big Dance yet. Where's the harm in stating that exactly? Nowhere. 

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

On September 3, 2016 at 10:59 AM, NFLfan said:

While I hate giving up so much for Bradford, he is probably the best realistic option. There was no one out there that I wanted -- not Sanchez, not Kaep, or anyone else. 

 

Now I would have given up a first round pick for Philip Rivers, but that was not going to happen.

 

 

 

For that price, you should probably ask every team for their QB. Maybe you get lucky. But that's just me. 

[NFLfan]

44 minutes ago, Indianapolis-Colts-Fan said:

For that price, you should probably ask every team for their QB. Maybe you get lucky. But that's just me. 

 

Who was giving up their starting QB besides the Eagles?

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

21 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

Who was giving up their starting QB besides the Eagles?

 

You can make any team any offer right? 

[ColtsBlueFL]

6 hours ago, Indianapolis-Colts-Fan said:

 

You can make any team any offer right? 

 

Yes. But generally, I think a GM asks if a {specific player} is available, and if so, what is the ransom?  Er, I mean the asking price? Then they negotiate toward more middle ground from there.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Yes. But generally, I think a GM asks if a {specific player} is available, and if so, what is the ransom?  Er, I mean the asking price? Then they negotiate toward more middle ground from there.

 

Ok, well that's all I meant. I would have, you have nothing to lose other than 2 picks. But hey that's just me. It never hurts to ask right?

[ColtsBlueFL]

9 hours ago, Indianapolis-Colts-Fan said:

 

Ok, well that's all I meant. I would have, you have nothing to lose other than 2 picks. But hey that's just me. It never hurts to ask right?

 

Sure, ask away and if the price is too high, then move on.  Doesn't hurt, I agree.

 

My point is if you make an offer, and maybe it is quickly accepted, then you never really know if the deal could have be completed for less; even though you (apparently) had accepted the loss offered beforehand as being acceptable barter.  Unless your initial offer is quite lowball, and that is a great way to get laughed at or hung up on, and maybe even sour future talks/deals.