Is Luck even 'teachable'?

[Surge89]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

No.    It's NOT better.     And this exchange is getting worse for you --- not better --- the more you try to explain.

 

Respectfully,  you don't seem to know ANYTHING about the Colts or football.

 

For your sake,  I'm going to cut and paste the Colts record since Polian drafted Manning in '98.

 

"For a good six years this team was awful."        Perhaps english is not your primary language.    But you don't see to know what the word "awful" even means......       here is the record since '98.       Try to find me 2 bad years in a row,   much less six.       From 2002 to 2010, a span of 9 years,  the Colts won 10 or more games EVERY YEAR!      My, how you suffered.

 

 

 

Ok what the heck are you going on about.  Just because the team record is good doesn't mean it's a good team.  The whole point of this conversation when we started is that Manning had to carry a below average team for his last 6 years or so here.  You throwing records around doesn't change that.

 

The team was awful in context to our conversation not awful as in no wins.  But to say this was a high talented roster with depth is ignorant.  They had the same problems for multiple years depending on 2 or 3 players to play perfect ball instead of a complete team.  And the fact is early in Mannings career we had a good team but a not so good Manning.  Then as he got better and became what he eventually became the team around him eroded into nothing.  

 

I forget why I stopped posting here.  The minute you say anything negative about the team logic Flys out the window.  Please try and keep the conversation to what we were talking about.  

[Surge89]

9 hours ago, Gavin said:

Addai wasn't just a complimentary Back. Come on now, He had 2 straight 1400+ total yard seasons and 23 total TD's his 1st two years in the league. He got hurt and wasn't the same and the O Line went to hell. He was a very capable lead Back who happened to get injured and never recover

 

He was a good back for 2 seasons... you are totally proving my point... 

 

The time frame in which I'm discussing with NCF is the time frame which Addai was just a complimentary back.  Which again leads to my point that this team degraded around Manning because of missed draft picks and the injury to Addai and it started after that super bowl.  Then you bring up the atrocious oline which again proves my point.  The team talent degraded heavily...

 

He's trying to make this into something it isn't. 

[Surge89]

8 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I am sorry to inform you that you known history of the Colts and Manning is severely lacking. As far as Addai he was not ever what is known as a pounder and was never ask to be that type of runner. His job was to block for Manning and catch passes out of the back field. Both of those thing he not only was good, he excelled at. Since when does a complimentary RB have 39 TDs rushing and 9 TDs receiving with a 4.1 average yards per carry in 6 years? He even had one game against New England when he ran for over 100 yards and received over 100 yards. You don't make a pro bowl by being a complementary RB either. You might as well give up making comments about something you obviously know little about.

 

Lol again what the heck are you going on about?

 

Once he was injured he became a complimentary back.  If you don't want to accept that OK I guess but let's please bring into context what the conversation is about.  The time frame I'm talking to NCF about is the time frame where Addai didn't put up more than 500 yards.  And his oline became pretty darn awful.  Again leading to the point that the team degraded around Manning instead of improve.  

 

Everyone is trying to imply that I'm saying the team always sucked because of my initial statement that I admittedly embellished on but the truth is we did have a good team with a learning QB but when that learning QB started to become truly great the team around him was really not so good and very shallow.  

[OLD FAN MAN]

On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 11:19 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The only thing he needs to get better at is getting rid of the ball quicker like Tom Brady does a lot. He does that his INT's and Fumbles will even go down. Everything else he is excellent at IMO. Getting rid of the ball quicker is huge though.

he may have all day to throw with our new o-line and system

[Goatface Killah]

13 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Boy, as a fan, you've really had to suffer through his first 4 years.      I don't know how or why you put up with him?!?

 

Perhaps the team will wise up like you have and maybe they'll trade him to whoever is stupid enough to take him off our hands?!

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah man I am just goofing around. Sometimes these off season threads are just too much for me.

 

Luck is what? 26? He has a degree from Stanford University. And this guy is questioning whether or not he can learn?

 

Sorry I'll try to refrain from posting stupid stuff like that from now on.

[CoachLite]

In reading through the posts, I noticed that references to Brian Schottenheimer was noticeably missing as QB coach, replacing Clyde Christensen, who probably had been with the Colts too long. I wonder what effect a new set of eyes and ideas will do?

[RollerColt]

Andrew will be fine. In fact, I saw some signs of life in him during the Broncos game last year. Things were starting to click. To me, he seemed quite comfortable with Chud's play calling. He still has a few months to go to learn the new offense. I'll continue to put my faith in Luck, because he's shown flashes of brilliance. 

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, Surge89 said:

 

Lol again what the heck are you going on about?

 

Once he was injured he became a complimentary back.  If you don't want to accept that OK I guess but let's please bring into context what the conversation is about.  The time frame I'm talking to NCF about is the time frame where Addai didn't put up more than 500 yards.  And his oline became pretty darn awful.  Again leading to the point that the team degraded around Manning instead of improve.  

 

Everyone is trying to imply that I'm saying the team always sucked because of my initial statement that I admittedly embellished on but the truth is we did have a good team with a learning QB but when that learning QB started to become truly great the team around him was really not so good and very shallow.  

Maybe you would like to go back and re read your exact words? Explain the 6 years thing? Where did you say Addai just became a complementary player after an injury?

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, GoatBeard said:

 

Yeah man I am just goofing around. Sometimes these off season threads are just too much for me.

 

Luck is what? 26? He has a degree from Stanford University. And this guy is questioning whether or not he can learn?

 

Sorry I'll try to refrain from posting stupid stuff like that from now on.

 

No worries.....    sorry if I came down hard on you....

 

My only recommendation to protect yourself on posts like this is to use an emoticon to show you're being sarcastic...    or funny.....    or not being serious.....      something....    anything that protects you from guys like me wondering if you're being serious.

 

This may be a Colts site but we have 2-3 posters who just don't think Luck is very good.     That made reading your post a little harder to read because we didn't know if that was your true feeling.....

 

Thanks for the explanation.      Appreciate you taking the time to fill in the blanks....        

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Surge89 said:

 

 

Ok what the heck are you going on about.  Just because the team record is good doesn't mean it's a good team.  The whole point of this conversation when we started is that Manning had to carry a below average team for his last 6 years or so here.  You throwing records around doesn't change that.

 

The team was awful in context to our conversation not awful as in no wins.  But to say this was a high talented roster with depth is ignorant.  They had the same problems for multiple years depending on 2 or 3 players to play perfect ball instead of a complete team.  And the fact is early in Mannings career we had a good team but a not so good Manning.  Then as he got better and became what he eventually became the team around him eroded into nothing.  

 

I forget why I stopped posting here.  The minute you say anything negative about the team logic Flys out the window.  Please try and keep the conversation to what we were talking about.  

 

OK........     at least you explained yourself.

 

It's complete nonsense and demonstrates just how little you understand about football.      So, at least I know for the future.....

 

I don't mind negative posts.     I've made my share and taken heat for it.     But I DO mind silly, nonsense posts.

 

And the idea that the Colts were "awful" when they were winning 10 to 14 games for 9 straight years is silly and nonsense.

 

Thanks for clearing that up.......

 

[thunderkyss]

How many offensive coordinators has Luck had? 

 

Through no fault of his own of course, however, when other QBs struggle, that's one of the first things they bring up. I'm willing to write off Luck's 2015 as injury, but I heard his offensive coordinator (Chud?) talking on NFLN yesterday, stressing that Luck has to learn to protect himself.

 

But I think Luck has all the talent he needs. He appears to posses the necessary intangibles as well. But, like someone mentioned earlier, these guys don't become HOFers on their own. It's important that he finds an OC/HC that's on the same page with him, speaking the same language. Normally, the great ones have a relationship with that guy that spans many many years & Lucks early history (again, not his fault) doesn't look condusive to long term success. 

[Goatface Killah]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

No worries.....    sorry if I came down hard on you....

 

My only recommendation to protect yourself on posts like this is to use an emoticon to show you're being sarcastic...    or funny.....    or not being serious.....      something....    anything that protects you from guys like me wondering if you're being serious.

 

This may be a Colts site but we have 2-3 posters who just don't think Luck is very good.     That made reading your post a little harder to read because we didn't know if that was your true feeling.....

 

Thanks for the explanation.      Appreciate you taking the time to fill in the blanks....        

 

 

No worries man, if I was serious I most definitely deserved it. I would've had the same reaction.

 

 

 

 

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

On 5/10/2016 at 10:26 PM, Lawrence Owen said:

Don't get me wrong here, i love Andrew. his competitiveness and skill sets make him fun to watch and gives Indy a chance on every play. But can he really learn from his mistakes? 

2 years ago, he said he wanted to correct his "bone-head" mistakes.  And from what I saw last year, he made even more.  Yes, injuries plagued his throw motion and power/accuracy, but a lot of throws should not have even happened.  I would also throw in not getting rid of the ball fast on obvious blitzing situations, and not sliding feet first when scrambling as 'bone-headed' as well.

M.H. a lot of the time last year did not look like he was even playing football.  It was as though he was playing a professional game of "Hot Potato".   And IMO, he would have been selected All-Pro if it were the case.

Luck this year should learn from seeing that.  "Should" being the key word.  He hasn't seemed to learn from his other past mistakes.

This makes me wander if he is learning impaired in some aspects, or if he really did come into the NFL at his ceiling.  He should be getting better year-to-year, not staying the same, or as some could argue, regressing.

Maybe my observations are misguided, and next year Luck comes out and proves me wrong, but if he doesn't, I foresee another long, or bad case VERY short season for him.

The upgrades on the o-line should give him more time, and help the running game, which also increases time, but if he cannot improve on himself, I will be very disappointed.

 

Andrew Lucks first 3 seasons were better than 18's . He's now on his 3 'rd offensive Coach , Given the year to implement Chuds offense & a offensive line & running game he will be better than 18 . of course he's teachable the problem was Pep Hamilton a first time NFL coach he sucked put a team around him and he will be better than 18 . He is every bit as smart  as 18 unfortunately the Colts have not surrounded him with the players & coachs that could help him . Tom Moore & Roger Mudd were awesome coaches they made more of a difference than most realize . Now with Chud & Philbin we will see major changes they'v been there & done that .  We are a lil impatient we were spoiled fans but it did'nt happen over night Lucks career absent the injury was off to a great start no QB in INDY history has done better at this point ,Its laughable to read the OP the off season is boring I get that but be reasonable & remember our past Colts seasons Captain Comeback was the first Indy Colt to make the Colts respectable , 18 was second but it took several years for him & the records were not 11-5 & the playoffs were not reached in 18's first 3 years . Luck will be greatly improved with the veteran leadership that now is at his disposal ..

[masterlock]

On 5/10/2016 at 0:13 AM, crazycolt1 said:

As great a player as Peyton was it took him how long to win a playoff game? How many years to win a super bowl? How many games did Manning lose because of poor defense and even worse special teams play?  The QB is at the mercy of how good the team is he is playing for. I find it pretty insulting for you to bring up the subject if Luck is teachable. I am not sure what Luck's IQ is but I would be willing to bet it is pretty high. Luck didn't major in nonsense courses at Stanford.

I don't know how you can be insulted by a comment made about someone else, but OK. Anyway if you look at the context of the "unteachable" remarks, I think it's reasonably clear he was not disparaging Luck's intelligence. The FACT is, Luck has made the same "bone-headed" mistakes since he came into the league, and has thus far not improved in that regard. Also, he tended to throw high passes in college, and that too has not improved thus far. I think Luck needs to work with a QB coach who can help him with some mechanical issues. I do think he has the potential to be great, and that most of his issues are fixable. 

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, masterlock said:

I don't know how you can be insulted by a comment made about someone else, but OK. Anyway if you look at the context of the "unteachable" remarks, I think it's reasonably clear he was not disparaging Luck's intelligence. The FACT is, Luck has made the same "bone-headed" mistakes since he came into the league, and has thus far not improved in that regard. Also, he tended to throw high passes in college, and that too has not improved thus far. I think Luck needs to work with a QB coach who can help him with some mechanical issues. I do think he has the potential to be great, and that most of his issues are fixable. 

The so called 'bone headed' mistakes you refer to pretty comes with the territory when you have a QB who is what they call a 'gun slinger'. Luck is more on the side of Bret Farve than lets say Alex Smith. Luck plays with that mentality and I highly doubt he is going to change. That trait is part of what makes Luck who he is and fun to watch. With that in mind I do agree he has room for improvement and IMO will improve with maturity.

[King Colt]

No running game and no protection forces all QBs in to panic mode. How many times have we witnessed QB's thread the needle what they have time? When it's third and two and you have to throw the ball says a lot. Add to falling behind in points forces the QB again ion to panic mode and Luck simply does not function in that mode and it is obvious to everyone.

[Superman]

51 minutes ago, King Colt said:

Add to falling behind in points forces the QB again ion to panic mode and Luck simply does not function in that mode and it is obvious to everyone

 

???

 

How many 4th quarter comebacks has Luck led in 3+ seasons? How many times has he escaped from a collapsing pocket to hit a receiver downfield?

 

I'm not sure how anyone could say this about Luck. 

[thunderkyss]

On 5/12/2016 at 8:11 PM, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

 

Andrew Lucks first 3 seasons were better than 18's . 

 

That's more than likely a sign of the times than a projection of how good Luck will be. 

 

These kids are putting stats up that make Elway look like a chump. 

[ColtsBTM12]

He's still young, going through growing pains, plus he was really injured last year. I have faith he will improve because the O-line improved, running game should be improved,  plus he learned a ton from last year's struggles. He's still the best player on our team and we still go as far as he can take us.

[ColtsBTM12]

6 hours ago, thunderkyss said:

 

That's more than likely a sign of the times than a projection of how good Luck will be. 

 

These kids are putting stats up that make Elway look like a chump. 

It's not just about the stats (although Luck's were better), it's also about the wins. And the fact that Luck won more games than Manning did in his first three years with very little talent around him is a testament to how good Luck was when he first came into the league. I'm not saying he will have a better career than Peyton, but there's no denying his first three years were better.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, ColtsBTM12 said:

It's not just about the stats (although Luck's were better), it's also about the wins. And the fact that Luck won more games than Manning did in his first three years with very little talent around him is a testament to how good Luck was when he first came into the league. I'm not saying he will have a better career than Peyton, but there's no denying his first three years were better.

I know Peyton didn't win a Playoff game until his 6th season but people tend to forget that. Hell, Andrew has already been a Final 4.

[King Colt]

21 hours ago, Superman said:

 

???

 

How many 4th quarter comebacks has Luck led in 3+ seasons? How many times has he escaped from a collapsing pocket to hit a receiver downfield?

 

I'm not sure how anyone could say this about Luck. 

What about his INT's? And "comebacks" happen only when you are losing, there are four quarters in football, not just the fourth.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, King Colt said:

What about his INT's? And "comebacks" happen only when you are losing, there are four quarters in football, not just the fourth.

 

You said Luck doesn't function in panic mode. I don't know what you're talking about. Luck makes tons of plays both when the game is tight and when the pocket breaks down.

 

What about his INTs? What are you trying to say?

 

I always love the suggestion that if a QB leads a comeback that it's only because he played poorly to begin with. That's false. And it has nothing to do with whether he makes plays when the game is tight or when the pocket breaks down.

[SilentHill]

Having Luck behind a solid and what should be consistent O-line should be like night and day, I think the 40TD two seasons ago is just scratching the surface of his potential.

 

The installation of a bootleg pass downfield has me frothing at the mouth, the talking heads aren't speaking about it but id wager millions there isn't a DC on our schedule who isn't seriously worried about how they are going to defend the Colts offense this season.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 hours ago, SilentHill said:

Having Luck behind a solid and what should be consistent O-line should be like night and day, I think the 40TD two seasons ago is just scratching the surface of his potential.

 

The installation of a bootleg pass downfield has me frothing at the mouth, the talking heads aren't speaking about it but id wager millions there isn't a DC on our schedule who isn't seriously worried about how they are going to defend the Colts offense this season.

Yeah I cant wait for the season to start, not winning the Division has me hungry as a fan and ready for Colts Football! If Andrew stays healthy I smell another 40 TD's coming!

[RockThatBlue]

On 5/11/2016 at 10:58 AM, RollerColt said:

Andrew will be fine. In fact, I saw some signs of life in him during the Broncos game last year. Things were starting to click. To me, he seemed quite comfortable with Chud's play calling. He still has a few months to go to learn the new offense. I'll continue to put my faith in Luck, because he's shown flashes of brilliance. 

Things started to click for Andrew in the 4th quarter of the panthers game imo. Just too bad he got hurt the next game.

[thunderkyss]

12 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah I cant wait for the season to start, not winning the Division has me hungry as a fan and ready for Colts Football! If Andrew stays healthy I smell another 40 TD's coming!

 

 

I'm all for it. As long as none of them are against the Texans. 

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

On 5/18/2016 at 10:31 AM, thunderkyss said:

 

That's more than likely a sign of the times than a projection of how good Luck will be. 

 

These kids are putting stats up that make Elway look like a chump. 

 

Luck carried the team just like a older manning did ,  It was not a matter of just stats he came out of the gate doing better than Manning or Elway his play on the field was more productive each year until injury IMO  he made both look like chumps mearly because his first 3 years were better than there's all things being equal stats or not he was ahead of the curve 

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

On 5/19/2016 at 0:57 PM, thunderkyss said:

 

 

I'm all for it. As long as none of them are against the Texans. 

 

My Colts need to crush the pretenders to the throne especially the Texans ..

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

On 5/15/2016 at 4:58 PM, masterlock said:

I don't know how you can be insulted by a comment made about someone else, but OK. Anyway if you look at the context of the "unteachable" remarks, I think it's reasonably clear he was not disparaging Luck's intelligence. The FACT is, Luck has made the same "bone-headed" mistakes since he came into the league, and has thus far not improved in that regard. Also, he tended to throw high passes in college, and that too has not improved thus far. I think Luck needs to work with a QB coach who can help him with some mechanical issues. I do think he has the potential to be great, and that most of his issues are fixable. 

QB Coach is a problem not because he did'nt have 1 he did the dude just sucked & he has moved on . 

 

The best thing that happened that will improve the so called bone headed plays was the firing off Pep Hamilton who was in over his head , Bruce Arians leaving was the first step backwards for luck followed by a college coach who sucked in the NFL .

We will see a greatly improved Andrew Luck in 2016  with out a doubt the offensive coach & o-line coach & QB coach  are so much better than 12 has had in the past he won't be forced into your so called bone headed plays .

 

Coaching for the Colts has been the biggest problem on both sides of the ball yes we needed better players I'll give yo that but in the same token a great coach gets more out of mediocre players & still finds ways to win " The hoodie for example has proved that point over & over " 

 

Are you picking up what I'm putting down .  The coachs have sucked 

[bananabucket]

On 5/11/2016 at 0:19 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

OK........     at least you explained yourself.

 

It's complete nonsense and demonstrates just how little you understand about football.      So, at least I know for the future.....

 

I don't mind negative posts.     I've made my share and taken heat for it.     But I DO mind silly, nonsense posts.

 

And the idea that the Colts were "awful" when they were winning 10 to 14 games for 9 straight years is silly and nonsense.

 

Thanks for clearing that up.......

 

 

While he was wrong about Addai and the 07 defense (saying it was just Sanders is ludicrous), he was not wrong about the team as a whole.  Polian's garbage drafting did lead to a severely lacking team around Peyton.  All of the wins were merely a function of having the best qb of all time under center.  If you think those Colts rosters were anything but bad, I'm afraid you'd be the one with the lack of football knowledge. 

[thunderkyss]

4 hours ago, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

 

My Colts need to crush the pretenders to the throne especially the Texans ..

 

Ain't no pretending. 

[NewColtsFan]

9 hours ago, bananabucket said:

 

While he was wrong about Addai and the 07 defense (saying it was just Sanders is ludicrous), he was not wrong about the team as a whole.  Polian's garbage drafting did lead to a severely lacking team around Peyton.  All of the wins were merely a function of having the best qb of all time under center.  If you think those Colts rosters were anything but bad, I'm afraid you'd be the one with the lack of football knowledge. 

 

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this......

 

You simply can't win that many games over that many consecutive years in the NFL and have it be just because of Peyton Manning.

 

Marvin Harrison,  Reggie Wayne,  Dallas Clark,  Dwight Freeney,  Robert Mathis,  Bob Sanders,  and on and  on....

 

The NFL is not a game where one man can do it all.      Not even Peyton Manning.

 

[crazycolt1]

10 hours ago, bananabucket said:

 

While he was wrong about Addai and the 07 defense (saying it was just Sanders is ludicrous), he was not wrong about the team as a whole.  Polian's garbage drafting did lead to a severely lacking team around Peyton.  All of the wins were merely a function of having the best qb of all time under center.  If you think those Colts rosters were anything but bad, I'm afraid you'd be the one with the lack of football knowledge. 

I have to agree with that comment. When Polian was fired how many Colts were cut and only a handful of players cut made other teams rosters. A few did but were cut pretty quickly. This teams 53 man roster was gutted. I don't have a break down in front of me but there was a reason the Colts went 2-14 other than losing Manning.

[crazycolt1]

On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 1:16 PM, thunderkyss said:

How many offensive coordinators has Luck had? 

 

Through no fault of his own of course, however, when other QBs struggle, that's one of the first things they bring up. I'm willing to write off Luck's 2015 as injury, but I heard his offensive coordinator (Chud?) talking on NFLN yesterday, stressing that Luck has to learn to protect himself.

 

But I think Luck has all the talent he needs. He appears to posses the necessary intangibles as well. But, like someone mentioned earlier, these guys don't become HOFers on their own. It's important that he finds an OC/HC that's on the same page with him, speaking the same language. Normally, the great ones have a relationship with that guy that spans many many years & Lucks early history (again, not his fault) doesn't look condusive to long term success. 

Very truthful comment. Manning had Tom Moore. Anyone who coached Scott Mitchell up enough to throw for 4,338 yards and a passer rating of 92.3 in 1995 was pretty good IMO.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

On 5/21/2016 at 1:45 PM, thunderkyss said:

 

Ain't no pretending. 

 

We'll see ..

[2006Coltsbestever]

On ‎5‎/‎21‎/‎2016 at 4:49 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this......

 

You simply can't win that many games over that many consecutive years in the NFL and have it be just because of Peyton Manning.

 

Marvin Harrison,  Reggie Wayne,  Dallas Clark,  Dwight Freeney,  Robert Mathis,  Bob Sanders,  and on and  on....

 

The NFL is not a game where one man can do it all.      Not even Peyton Manning.

 

I agree our Roster was Good from 2003-2009, not saying it was Great but it wasn't Bad and our QB was Great. Peyton was definitely worth a few wins a season by himself but a team doesn't win 12+ games 7 seasons in a row with a Bad Roster. Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Saturday, Freeney, Mathis, Sanders, Brackett, and Vinatieri are all Very Good to Great players. We just never had an all-around Roster like the Patriots had because they usually had a Better Defense and SPTeams so in comparison to them we looked Bad at times.