Is Luck even 'teachable'?

[chad72]

37 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

A lot of the time on the obvious blitzes I didn't even notice a receiver who was running a quick passing route.  I think a lot of that was on Pep Hamilton.

 

Dude had his best game of the year against the best defense in the league in Denver as soon as Chud took over.

 

I wouldn't worry that much. . . we're not that far removed from him leading the league in TD passes.  

 

There are technicians and then there are improvisers. Against most Ds, the technician prevails, the one who has a textbook answer to a textbook question that has been typically asked (or in football terms, a D that the QB has seen enough times in the past). But if something new is shown or if the play breaks down, the improviser flourishes. The technician typically has a high floor and high level of consistency. However, Ds can game plan their tendencies but Ds have a harder time if the improviser develops a high level of technicality. Ds like the Seahawks, they can be a well oiled machine, so a QB that is an improviser like Big Ben or Luck creates more issues for them than Peyton because those improvisers are hard to plan for, you can only react and hope you make more plays than them.

 

Luck is more improviser than technician, at this point. In order to get the consistency, the technician aspect needs to be turned up a notch. That will come with time. You cannot teach improvization skills, the technical aspect can be acquired over time.

[Goatface Killah]

Luck is a lost cause.

[jbaron04]

It's hard to stick to fundamental when under fire 

[Superman]

5 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

I can't decide between Pep and Toler being gone, which was better. 

 

Either way......

 

Pep for sure. He caused systemic issues with the offense.

[Superman]

3 hours ago, TDewar1987 said:

Is that the episode of SG-1 where Jack and Teal'c keep repeating the same day over and over?

 

I never watched Stargate, but this is from Reddit:

Pretty sure this is from Window Of Opportunity, right? A.K.A, the BEST episode Stargate SG-1 ever did.

[Superman]

5 hours ago, bababooey said:

That and building a much better O line.

 

We're TBD on that, and the young guys will have an adjustment period (although Kelly is an immediate upgrade, IMO). 

 

Pep being gone is an instant upgrade, especially since Chud has been in the building for two years already. Just getting rid of Pep, even if nothing else changed, was huge.

 

If the OL is even 20% better in 2016, the improvement is compounded. I'm really looking forward to seeing the offense this year.

[Superman]

4 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

A lot of the time on the obvious blitzes I didn't even notice a receiver who was running a quick passing route.  I think a lot of that was on Pep Hamilton.

 

Dude had his best game of the year against the best defense in the league in Denver as soon as Chud took over.

 

I wouldn't worry that much. . . we're not that far removed from him leading the league in TD passes.  

 

There often were no hot routes, even against heavy blitzing teams. The offense was an absolute mess in 2015. I don't know what Pep was trying to do, but it was awful. Routes were ugly, timing was off, run/pass balance was insane at times, not nearly enough play action, etc. 

 

Luck has some issues also, and he should have the awareness to identify pressures and the freedom to adjust the play, but a lot of his adjustments were problematic. He didn't get the help and support he obviously needed from the OC, which led to him playing even worse. The Bills game is a perfect example of poor play calling and poor coaching, made worse by Luck making some questionable calls at the line.

 

Pep definitely earned his firing.

[TDewar1987]

16 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I never watched Stargate, but this is from Reddit:

Pretty sure this is from Window Of Opportunity, right? A.K.A, the BEST episode Stargate SG-1 ever did.

Yeah, that's the one. haha. 

[NewColtsFan]

6 hours ago, Surge89 said:

 

No he didnt his last year's here which is what I'm talking about. All of those players are nice to name but #1 they were all in their primes early in manning's career and 2 all of those players literally depended on manning's play...

 

Also his oline feel apart when Glenn left.  Manning made those lines look at least 200% better with his own ability. 

 

And that isn't even addressing the stale coaching that manning endured. People complain about Pagano but at least he attempts to change things when stuff isn't working. Oh the horror of watching Jennings consistently beat over and over the same way (just one example of many) was gruesome to watch. 

 

Goodness gracious....        You've changed the conversation completely.

 

NOW you're saying you were talking about Mannings last few years.

 

But this is what I responded to....    I'll cut and paste YOUR words....

 

"but remember this is a fan base that went through almost 10 years of a team with JUST Manning making plays."

 

THAT'S what I responded to.....    you saying "almost 10 years"....      if you're only talking about the Caldwell years,   well,   that wasn't even close to 10 years.   

 

You've completely changed the conversation.       You said one thing,  and now you're saying something entirely different......

 

 

[BOTT]

6 hours ago, Surge89 said:

 

Sorry not following help me understand. My point was that Manning didn't have a team from 06 and on and had to do it himself.  I'm not saying it's normal to only have one super bowl I'm saying manning carried a not so good team his last years here and made it normal to win without an adequate team...

Ok, but Luck hasn't been exactly QBing the 70's Steelers.

[BOTT]

6 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

I can't decide between Pep and Toler being gone, which was better. 

 

Either way......

Pep, and it's not even close.

[southwest1]

15 hours ago, Gavin said:

I think to many expect him to be Peyton Manning....He wont ever be Peyton. Luck is and always will be much more Brett Favre, A QB that's capable of putting a team on his back and making great plays with his arm or his legs but also will always be the QB that will make plenty of boneheaded throws. Changing the offense somewhat wont change that.

 

What Luck needs to work on is blitz pick up and communicating that to his hot read and knowing when to run and slide as well as his ability to move within the pocket. a step here, A step here.....The little things that can go a long way in him not taking the hits he has.

 

As to the O Line: I think Castonzo will be better then he was last year. I think Mewhort will still be good, Not great. I think Ryan Kelly will be much better then what we have had at Center since we drafted Luck but he will still struggle because he is a rookie(To expect him to play great as a rookie or like a seasoned vet is just wishful thinking I think. Most rookies go through an adjustment period). I'm hoping Thornton lives up to potential and that Reitz is even better at RT than he was last year

I'm gonna be honest with you Gavin. I dislike the Brett Favre/ Andrew Luck comparison on a visceral or emotional level. Brett Favre to me is perhaps the most selfish HOF QB I ever came across in my life. He rarely took any responsibility for dumb decision making on the field which cost the Packers devastating losses in the playoffs, he refused to help Rogers saying "It's not my job to coach Aaron. Nobody did that for me," & he held the Packers hostage for 4 yrs with an unwillingness to compete at training camp. Luck by contrast always says immediately when a stupid throw was his fault, he never complained when Hasselback was signed, & even if Luck's 2nd contract isn't finalized yet; I guarantee you that he will show up at training camp just to be around the guys even if he may not participate in any drills yet until he is protected from injury salary wise. 

 

Look, I know this is a personal bias against Favre that I will never be able to let go of personally. And all you were really saying Gavin is that Andrew Luck is more or less a gun slinger by nature, which you're right he is. I wasn't mad at you personally Gavin. It's just that when you look at the whole Chewbacca package [Andrew's desire to give all his teammates praise for touchdowns vs him, how he always praises opposing LBs for good hits on QB sacks, & how he's always the 1st to say "what can I do better to make the Colts win" he's nothing like Brett at all. Okay, I will admit that Favre praised Warren Sapp a lot on a good take down of #4. 

7 hours ago, CR91 said:

It's not that he's not teachable. Luck just has that never say die mentality. It's a instinct not a lot have. To do whatever it takes to win. You love it when your QB has it because it makes them great, but it can also be a double-edge sword at times

Good point CR91. I think this is what Gavin was driving at. Sometimes, Andrew needs to learn when to give up on a play, throw the ball out of bounds, & live to fight another down. Brett always thought his arm was stronger than an DBs ability to intercept the ball. Moxy or supreme confidence is necessary to play the QB position yes, but not throwing into double coverage in the Playoffs though, which #4 loved to do & then at the press conference Brett never says "I bleeped up that loss & the end of our season is on me." 

[bababooey]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

We're TBD on that, and the young guys will have an adjustment period (although Kelly is an immediate upgrade, IMO). 

 

Pep being gone is an instant upgrade, especially since Chud has been in the building for two years already. Just getting rid of Pep, even if nothing else changed, was huge.

 

If the OL is even 20% better in 2016, the improvement is compounded. I'm really looking forward to seeing the offense this year.

Yea exactly we don't know the result yet but hey using a few top picks plus hiring Philbin has been a move that you'd have to go far to find anyone hating on it. Firing Pep definitely the best immediate move. Would love to see us like we were against Denver last year with that little taste of healthy Luck and Chud.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

There often were no hot routes, even against heavy blitzing teams. The offense was an absolute mess in 2015. I don't know what Pep was trying to do, but it was awful. Routes were ugly, timing was off, run/pass balance was insane at times, not nearly enough play action, etc. 

 

Luck has some issues also, and he should have the awareness to identify pressures and the freedom to adjust the play, but a lot of his adjustments were problematic. He didn't get the help and support he obviously needed from the OC, which led to him playing even worse. The Bills game is a perfect example of poor play calling and poor coaching, made worse by Luck making some questionable calls at the line.

 

Pep definitely earned his firing.

 

Thank you!

 

And that's why I called for his firing after just two games last year.     The Buffalo season opener,  and the Monday Night game vs the Jets.       Just too painful to watch and put up with.

 

I knew things would not get better against quality teams.      Pep could do alright against teams that were equal or less.      But against better teams?      Other than 2013,   his offense fell way off against quality opponents in '14 and '15.

 

 

[southwest1]

2 hours ago, jbaron04 said:

It's hard to stick to fundamental when under fire 

True, but that's where Joe Philbin comes in. If he can give Luck clean throwing lanes & running lanes for yards on the ground, I suspect Andrew's TD percentage will go up & his turnover ratio will drop dramatically. 

 

If Philbin can be our version of Tom Cable in Seattle, I will be thrilled man. 

[cbear]

I think he is what he is.  He will always take chances and look for the home run play more than he should.  I think you need to design your play calling and construct your team around his skill set.  I don't think he will ever be a Peyton or Brady.  He will always be the gunslinger type.  As such, he will need more time to throw and receivers who can make the tough catch at times.  You can tame him a bit, but I don't think he's going to change his style of play much.

[southwest1]

18 hours ago, Lawrence Owen said:

Don't get me wrong here, i love Andrew. his competitiveness and skill sets make him fun to watch and gives Indy a chance on every play. But can he really learn from his mistakes? 

2 years ago, he said he wanted to correct his "bone-head" mistakes.  And from what I saw last year, he made even more.  Yes, injuries plagued his throw motion and power/accuracy, but a lot of throws should not have even happened.  I would also throw in not getting rid of the ball fast on obvious blitzing situations, and not sliding feet first when scrambling as 'bone-headed' as well.

M.H. a lot of the time last year did not look like he was even playing football.  It was as though he was playing a professional game of "Hot Potato".   And IMO, he would have been selected All-Pro if it were the case.

Luck this year should learn from seeing that.  "Should" being the key word.  He hasn't seemed to learn from his other past mistakes.

This makes me wander if he is learning impaired in some aspects, or if he really did come into the NFL at his ceiling.  He should be getting better year-to-year, not staying the same, or as some could argue, regressing.

Maybe my observations are misguided, and next year Luck comes out and proves me wrong, but if he doesn't, I foresee another long, or bad case VERY short season for him.

The upgrades on the o-line should give him more time, and help the running game, which also increases time, but if he cannot improve on himself, I will be very disappointed.

Hey Lawrence, 

 

I know that you are encountering some backlash for posting your true feelings about Luck & what you perceive his weaknesses to be such as poor decision making, shoulder injuries & a lacerated kidney etc. etc. & I can tell your words or concerns are coming from a good place not let's pile on Chewy's shortcomings today. 

 

It takes guts to say what many might deem unpopular & dare I say even blasphemous in NFL circles. I respect people that have the kahunas to do that. If you strip it down to the bone, many of us think INDY should be closer to a Championship than we already are. Now, part of that is the HOF QB he followed in the footsteps of, part of that is being humiliated in the Deflate Game by our arch rival NE, part of that is insufficient protection up front, & part of that is a need for better coaching leading to the dismissal of Pep Hamilton as my forum friends have eloquently stated. 

 

What you are really fearing is regression of Luck courtesy of shell shock & constant hits & takedowns. Basically you don't wanna see another David Carr, a QB with a ton of promise ruined by the beating he took as a rookie & eventually all David saw was the pass rush vs the secondary because he was sacked so darn much. Because the 1 thing you never wanna a QB to loose is his ability to release the ball accurately knowing a big hit is coming his way no matter what. You never want to see the killer instinct to make an incredible play die. 

 

I think once Andrew knows that the o-line is solid his why did he throw that passes will taper off & be replaced by better hot reads like Gavin said earlier. Andrew just wants to know that it's not all on him to sling the pig skin for 70 yards just to move the chains. I also think that Chud will use or TEs more effectively too. I expect big things from Allen & Doyle this yr. 

 

I understand why you wrote what you wrote Lawrence. I truly do. But, Andrew will make strides in the right direction this season. Joe Philbin is the key trust me. 

[jim scheurich]

Im sure hes teachable. I really think mental "pressure" is getting to him. First all the comparisons to manning coming into the NFL, then all the success he had scrambling for first downs to move the ball.  Defenses adjusted, and the colts never really got a reliable run game established. In short i believe he puts excessive pressure on himself.

[jim scheurich]

4 hours ago, GoatBeard said:

Luck is a lost cause.

hope youre just kidding.

[BOTT]

19 hours ago, Gavin said:

I think to many expect him to be Peyton Manning....He wont ever be Peyton. Luck is and always will be much more Brett Favre, A QB that's capable of putting a team on his back and making great plays with his arm or his legs but also will always be the QB that will make plenty of boneheaded throws. Changing the offense somewhat wont change that.

 

What Luck needs to work on is blitz pick up and communicating that to his hot read and knowing when to run and slide as well as his ability to move within the pocket. a step here, A step here.....The little things that can go a long way in him not taking the hits he has.

 

As to the O Line: I think Castonzo will be better then he was last year. I think Mewhort will still be good, Not great. I think Ryan Kelly will be much better then what we have had at Center since we drafted Luck but he will still struggle because he is a rookie(To expect him to play great as a rookie or like a seasoned vet is just wishful thinking I think. Most rookies go through an adjustment period). I'm hoping Thornton lives up to potential and that Reitz is even better at RT than he was last year

Changing the offense and coordinators can definitely change that.  That's been proven time and time again.  Everyone was saying Philip Rivers was washed up a few years ago....enter Whisenhut and he's and MVP candidate.

 

And Brett Favre played most of his career for Mike Holmgren....a Bill Walsh disciple who was know to make the game much easier for his QB.  Luck on the other hand has had the mad bomber Bruce Arians, and Pep, who seemingly didn't have a philosophy.

[NewColtsFan]

6 hours ago, GoatBeard said:

Luck is a lost cause.

 

Boy, as a fan, you've really had to suffer through his first 4 years.      I don't know how or why you put up with him?!?

 

Perhaps the team will wise up like you have and maybe they'll trade him to whoever is stupid enough to take him off our hands?!

 

 

 

 

[jbaron04]

4 hours ago, southwest1 said:

True, but that's where Joe Philbin comes in. If he can give Luck clean throwing lanes & running lanes for yards on the ground, I suspect Andrew's TD percentage will go up & his turnover ratio will drop dramatically. 

 

If Philbin can be our version of Tom Cable in Seattle, I will be thrilled man. 

Yea I agree , u have to have that Oline right 

[Surge89]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Goodness gracious....        You've changed the conversation completely.

 

NOW you're saying you were talking about Mannings last few years.

 

But this is what I responded to....    I'll cut and paste YOUR words....

 

"but remember this is a fan base that went through almost 10 years of a team with JUST Manning making plays."

 

THAT'S what I responded to.....    you saying "almost 10 years"....      if you're only talking about the Caldwell years,   well,   that wasn't even close to 10 years.   

 

You've completely changed the conversation.       You said one thing,  and now you're saying something entirely different......

 

 

 

Oh jeeze I embellished a little good grief. 

 

But since 06 till Manning's injury the team wasn't very good (same problems no DT pressure, below average corners, below average linebackers, below average Olinemail, below average running backs).  And that includes 07 where the only reason was Sanders being healthy and even then he couldn't make up for the rest of the defense' inadequacies.

 

So no I didn't change the conversation you just seem to need this explained in very high detail. For a good 6? years this team was awful. That better? And no it just wasn't Caldwell it was failed 1st round picks like Gonzales, Ugoh (not a first but it relates), even Addai who never really measured up anything but a complimentary back. 

 

 

[Surge89]

7 hours ago, BOTT said:

Ok, but Luck hasn't been exactly QBing the 70's Steelers.

 

Hmm?

 

Oh I know that this isn't saying anything about Luck.  My whole original point was that Luck shouldn't have to do the same as Manning and people shouldn't expect him to...

 

And honestly at least he has a coaching staff that's willing to change stuff when they see it isn't working and not expecting him to be perfect is a lot more than what Manning had.  I'm hoping that unlike the Manning Era the team improves as the QB gets better instead of the opposite like what Manning had.  (He was a choker and learning early and by the time he got really good the team degraded into a shallow talentless group of below average players).

[NewColtsFan]

25 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

Oh jeeze I embellished a little good grief. 

 

But since 06 till Manning's injury the team wasn't very good (same problems no DT pressure, below average corners, below average linebackers, below average Olinemail, below average running backs).  And that includes 07 where the only reason was Sanders being healthy and even then he couldn't make up for the rest of the defense' inadequacies.

 

So no I didn't change the conversation you just seem to need this explained in very high detail. For a good 6? years this team was awful. That better? And no it just wasn't Caldwell it was failed 1st round picks like Gonzales, Ugoh (not a first but it relates), even Addai who never really measured up anything but a complimentary back. 

 

 

 

No.    It's NOT better.     And this exchange is getting worse for you --- not better --- the more you try to explain.

 

Respectfully,  you don't seem to know ANYTHING about the Colts or football.

 

For your sake,  I'm going to cut and paste the Colts record since Polian drafted Manning in '98.

 

"For a good six years this team was awful."        Perhaps english is not your primary language.    But you don't see to know what the word "awful" even means......       here is the record since '98.       Try to find me 2 bad years in a row,   much less six.       From 2002 to 2010, a span of 9 years,  the Colts won 10 or more games EVERY YEAR!      My, how you suffered.

 

 

1998	1998	NFL	AFC	East	5th	3	13	0
1999	1999	NFL	AFC	East	1st	13	3	0	Lost Divisional Playoffs (Titans) 19–16	Edgerrin James (OROY)[22]
2000	2000	NFL	AFC	East	2nd	10	6	0	Lost Wild Card Playoffs (Dolphins) 23–17 (OT)
2001	2001	NFL	AFC	East	4th	6	10	0
2002	2002	NFL	AFC	South	2nd	10	6	0	Lost Wild Card Playoffs (Jets) 41–0
2003	2003	NFL	AFC	South	1st	12	4	0	Won Wild Card Playoffs (Broncos) 41–10 Won Divisional Playoffs (Chiefs) 38–31 Lost Conference Championship (Patriots) 24–14	Peyton Manning (MVP)[23]
2004	2004	NFL	AFC	South	1st	12	4	0	Won Wild Card Playoffs (Broncos) 49–24 Lost Divisional Playoffs (Patriots) 20–3	Peyton Manning (MVP, OPOY)[23][24]
2005	2005	NFL	AFC	South	1st	14	2	0	Lost Divisional Playoffs (Steelers) 21–18	Peyton Manning (WP MOY)[25]
2006	2006	NFL	AFC	South	1st	12	4	0	Won Wild Card Playoffs (Chiefs) 23–8 Won Divisional Playoffs (Ravens) 15–6 Won Conference Championship (Patriots) 38–34 Won Super Bowl XLI (4) (Bears) 29–17	Peyton Manning (SB MVP)[26]
2007	2007	NFL	AFC	South	1st	13	3	0	Lost Divisional Playoffs (Chargers) 28–24[l]	Bob Sanders (DPOY)[27]
2008	2008	NFL	AFC	South	2nd	12	4	0	Lost Wild Card Playoffs (Chargers) 23–17 (OT)	Peyton Manning (MVP)[23]
2009	2009	NFL	AFC	South	1st	14	2	0	Won Divisional Playoffs (Ravens) 20–3 Won Conference Championship (Jets) 30–17 Lost Super Bowl XLIV (Saints) 31–17	Peyton Manning (MVP)[28]
2010	2010	NFL	AFC	South	1st	10	6	0	Lost Wild Card Playoffs (Jets) 17–16
2011	2011	NFL	AFC	South	4th	2	14	0
2012	2012	NFL	AFC	South	2nd	11	5	0	Lost Wild Card Playoffs (Ravens) 24–9	Bruce Arians (COY)[29]
2013	2013	NFL	AFC	South	1st	11	5	0	Won Wild Card Playoffs (Chiefs) 45–44 Lost Divisional Playoffs (Patriots) 43–22
2014	2014	NFL	AFC	South	1st	11	5	0	Won Wild Card Playoffs (Bengals) 26–10 Won Divisional Playoffs (Broncos) 24–13 Lost Conference Championship (Patriots) 45–7
2015	2015	NFL	AFC	South	2nd	8	8	0

[Gavin]

35 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

Hmm?

 

Oh I know that this isn't saying anything about Luck.  My whole original point was that Luck shouldn't have to do the same as Manning and people shouldn't expect him to...

 

And honestly at least he has a coaching staff that's willing to change stuff when they see it isn't working and not expecting him to be perfect is a lot more than what Manning had.  I'm hoping that unlike the Manning Era the team improves as the QB gets better instead of the opposite like what Manning had.  (He was a choker and learning early and by the time he got really good the team degraded into a shallow talentless group of below average players).

Addai wasn't just a complimentary Back. Come on now, He had 2 straight 1400+ total yard seasons and 23 total TD's his 1st two years in the league. He got hurt and wasn't the same and the O Line went to hell. He was a very capable lead Back who happened to get injured and never recover

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Surge89 said:

 

Oh jeeze I embellished a little good grief. 

 

But since 06 till Manning's injury the team wasn't very good (same problems no DT pressure, below average corners, below average linebackers, below average Olinemail, below average running backs).  And that includes 07 where the only reason was Sanders being healthy and even then he couldn't make up for the rest of the defense' inadequacies.

 

So no I didn't change the conversation you just seem to need this explained in very high detail. For a good 6? years this team was awful. That better? And no it just wasn't Caldwell it was failed 1st round picks like Gonzales, Ugoh (not a first but it relates), even Addai who never really measured up anything but a complimentary back. 

 

 

I am sorry to inform you that you known history of the Colts and Manning is severely lacking. As far as Addai he was not ever what is known as a pounder and was never ask to be that type of runner. His job was to block for Manning and catch passes out of the back field. Both of those thing he not only was good, he excelled at. Since when does a complimentary RB have 39 TDs rushing and 9 TDs receiving with a 4.1 average yards per carry in 6 years? He even had one game against New England when he ran for over 100 yards and received over 100 yards. You don't make a pro bowl by being a complementary RB either. You might as well give up making comments about something you obviously know little about.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

No.    It's NOT better.     And this exchange is getting worse for you --- not better --- the more you try to explain.

 

Respectfully,  you don't seem to know ANYTHING about the Colts or football.

 

For your sake,  I'm going to cut and paste the Colts record since Polian drafted Manning in '98.

 

"For a good six years this team was awful."        Perhaps english is not your primary language.    But you don't seem to know what the word "awful" even means......       here is the record since '98.       Try to find me 2 bad years in a row,   much less six.       From 2002 to 2010, a span of 9 years,  the Colts won 10 or more games EVERY YEAR!      My, how you suffered.

 

 

1998	1998	NFL	AFC	East	5th	3	13	0
1999	1999	NFL	AFC	East	1st	13	3	0	Lost Divisional Playoffs (Titans) 19–16	Edgerrin James (OROY)[22]
2000	2000	NFL	AFC	East	2nd	10	6	0	Lost Wild Card Playoffs (Dolphins) 23–17 (OT)
2001	2001	NFL	AFC	East	4th	6	10	0
2002	2002	NFL	AFC	South	2nd	10	6	0	Lost Wild Card Playoffs (Jets) 41–0
2003	2003	NFL	AFC	South	1st	12	4	0	Won Wild Card Playoffs (Broncos) 41–10 Won Divisional Playoffs (Chiefs) 38–31 Lost Conference Championship (Patriots) 24–14	Peyton Manning (MVP)[23]
2004	2004	NFL	AFC	South	1st	12	4	0	Won Wild Card Playoffs (Broncos) 49–24 Lost Divisional Playoffs (Patriots) 20–3	Peyton Manning (MVP, OPOY)[23][24]
2005	2005	NFL	AFC	South	1st	14	2	0	Lost Divisional Playoffs (Steelers) 21–18	Peyton Manning (WP MOY)[25]
2006	2006	NFL	AFC	South	1st	12	4	0	Won Wild Card Playoffs (Chiefs) 23–8 Won Divisional Playoffs (Ravens) 15–6 Won Conference Championship (Patriots) 38–34 Won Super Bowl XLI (4) (Bears) 29–17	Peyton Manning (SB MVP)[26]
2007	2007	NFL	AFC	South	1st	13	3	0	Lost Divisional Playoffs (Chargers) 28–24[l]	Bob Sanders (DPOY)[27]
2008	2008	NFL	AFC	South	2nd	12	4	0	Lost Wild Card Playoffs (Chargers) 23–17 (OT)	Peyton Manning (MVP)[23]
2009	2009	NFL	AFC	South	1st	14	2	0	Won Divisional Playoffs (Ravens) 20–3 Won Conference Championship (Jets) 30–17 Lost Super Bowl XLIV (Saints) 31–17	Peyton Manning (MVP)[28]
2010	2010	NFL	AFC	South	1st	10	6	0	Lost Wild Card Playoffs (Jets) 17–16
2011	2011	NFL	AFC	South	4th	2	14	0
2012	2012	NFL	AFC	South	2nd	11	5	0	Lost Wild Card Playoffs (Ravens) 24–9	Bruce Arians (COY)[29]
2013	2013	NFL	AFC	South	1st	11	5	0	Won Wild Card Playoffs (Chiefs) 45–44 Lost Divisional Playoffs (Patriots) 43–22
2014	2014	NFL	AFC	South	1st	11	5	0	Won Wild Card Playoffs (Bengals) 26–10 Won Divisional Playoffs (Broncos) 24–13 Lost Conference Championship (Patriots) 45–7
2015	2015	NFL	AFC	South	2nd	8	8	0

 

[southwest1]

11 hours ago, GoatBeard said:

Luck is a lost cause.

 

5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Boy, as a fan, you've really had to suffer through his first 4 years.      I don't know how or why you put up with him?!?

 

Perhaps the team will wise up like you have and maybe they'll trade him to whoever is stupid enough to take him off our hands?!

 

 

 

 

I read GB's post & just figured he was goofing around, but maybe NCF is right to call into question that remark. Some fans do have short term memories around here forgetting how dreadful the 2011 season was & how Luck exceeded expectations ever since he took over in 2012. 

 

My only concern with Luck initially was this: I'd never seen a complete Stanford game with Andrew at the helm & I needed to see his come from behind clutch gene in action for myself. Once I witnessed it, I was like the sky is the limit for this kid & I see at least 2 SB rings before Luck is done. Yeah I know, SW1 is greedy. I make no apologies for that. 

 

Like NCF inferred above, if anybody thinks Luck is washed up, they're freaking crazy. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

No.    It's NOT better.     And this exchange is getting worse for you --- not better --- the more you try to explain.

 

Respectfully,  you don't seem to know ANYTHING about the Colts or football.

 

For your sake,  I'm going to cut and paste the Colts record since Polian drafted Manning in '98.

 

"For a good six years this team was awful."        Perhaps english is not your primary language.    But you don't see to know what the word "awful" even means......       here is the record since '98.       Try to find me 2 bad years in a row,   much less six.       From 2002 to 2010, a span of 9 years,  the Colts won 10 or more games EVERY YEAR!      My, how you suffered.

 

 

1998	1998	NFL	AFC	East	5th	3	13	0
1999	1999	NFL	AFC	East	1st	13	3	0	Lost Divisional Playoffs (Titans) 19–16	Edgerrin James (OROY)[22]
2000	2000	NFL	AFC	East	2nd	10	6	0	Lost Wild Card Playoffs (Dolphins) 23–17 (OT)
2001	2001	NFL	AFC	East	4th	6	10	0
2002	2002	NFL	AFC	South	2nd	10	6	0	Lost Wild Card Playoffs (Jets) 41–0
2003	2003	NFL	AFC	South	1st	12	4	0	Won Wild Card Playoffs (Broncos) 41–10 Won Divisional Playoffs (Chiefs) 38–31 Lost Conference Championship (Patriots) 24–14	Peyton Manning (MVP)[23]
2004	2004	NFL	AFC	South	1st	12	4	0	Won Wild Card Playoffs (Broncos) 49–24 Lost Divisional Playoffs (Patriots) 20–3	Peyton Manning (MVP, OPOY)[23][24]
2005	2005	NFL	AFC	South	1st	14	2	0	Lost Divisional Playoffs (Steelers) 21–18	Peyton Manning (WP MOY)[25]
2006	2006	NFL	AFC	South	1st	12	4	0	Won Wild Card Playoffs (Chiefs) 23–8 Won Divisional Playoffs (Ravens) 15–6 Won Conference Championship (Patriots) 38–34 Won Super Bowl XLI (4) (Bears) 29–17	Peyton Manning (SB MVP)[26]
2007	2007	NFL	AFC	South	1st	13	3	0	Lost Divisional Playoffs (Chargers) 28–24[l]	Bob Sanders (DPOY)[27]
2008	2008	NFL	AFC	South	2nd	12	4	0	Lost Wild Card Playoffs (Chargers) 23–17 (OT)	Peyton Manning (MVP)[23]
2009	2009	NFL	AFC	South	1st	14	2	0	Won Divisional Playoffs (Ravens) 20–3 Won Conference Championship (Jets) 30–17 Lost Super Bowl XLIV (Saints) 31–17	Peyton Manning (MVP)[28]
2010	2010	NFL	AFC	South	1st	10	6	0	Lost Wild Card Playoffs (Jets) 17–16
2011	2011	NFL	AFC	South	4th	2	14	0
2012	2012	NFL	AFC	South	2nd	11	5	0	Lost Wild Card Playoffs (Ravens) 24–9	Bruce Arians (COY)[29]
2013	2013	NFL	AFC	South	1st	11	5	0	Won Wild Card Playoffs (Chiefs) 45–44 Lost Divisional Playoffs (Patriots) 43–22
2014	2014	NFL	AFC	South	1st	11	5	0	Won Wild Card Playoffs (Bengals) 26–10 Won Divisional Playoffs (Broncos) 24–13 Lost Conference Championship (Patriots) 45–7
2015	2015	NFL	AFC	South	2nd	8	8	0

Man since 1999 we have been a Top 5 franchise easily, Great stuff to Post. Only 2001 and 2011 were Bad seasons and last season was Average. From 1999-2015 = 17 seasons in total, we have 14 Playoff Appearances(have only missed the Playoffs 3 times), 14 seasons of 10 wins or more, 4 Final 4's(1 of those were with Andrew), 2 SB Appearances, and a SB Championship! People will still find crap to complain about though  

[NewColtsFan]

20 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

 

I read GB's post & just figured he was goofing around, but maybe NCF is right to call into question that remark. Some fans do have short term memories around here forgetting how dreadful the 2011 season was & how Luck exceeded expectations ever since he took over in 2012. 

 

My only concern with Luck initially was this: I'd never seen a complete Stanford game with Andrew at the helm & I needed to see his come from behind clutch gene in action for myself. Once I witnessed it, I was like the sky is the limit for this kid & I see at least 2 SB rings before Luck is done. Yeah I know, SW1 is greedy. I make no apologies for that. 

 

Like NCF inferred above, if anybody thinks Luck is washed up, they're freaking crazy. 

 

I think it's entirely possible that Goatbeard is kidding....      I certainly hope so.

 

But if he is,  then an emoticon to demonstrate some sarcasm would be in order.     Another poster asked if he was kidding and there was no response.

 

So,   I took him at face value.      And since we've had 2-3 posters over the years who have clearly not been fans of Luck,  then I think it's possible 50/50 that the guy was serious......

 

I certainly hope not....

[NewColtsFan]

20 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Man since 1999 we have been a Top 5 franchise easily, Great stuff to Post. Only 2001 and 2011 were Bad seasons and last season was Average. From 1999-2015 = 17 seasons in total, we have 14 Playoff Appearances(have only missed the Playoffs 3 times), 14 seasons of 10 wins or more, 4 Final 4's(1 of those were with Andrew), 2 SB Appearances, and a SB Championship! People will still find crap to complain about though  

 

I could be mistaken but I believe I read that for the decade of the 2000's the Colts either won the most regular season games, or the 2nd most.

 

So,  either 1st or 2nd.      Not too bad.

 

Hey, if someone wants to say they're disappointed they didn't win more in the post-season I think that's fair.

 

Not enough Super Bowl wins?     I understand the disappointment.

 

But to call the Colts "awful" for a period of 6 years or so?     Come one......      there's no place on earth that would think of what the Colts accomplished in the 2000's as "awful".....     that's just nonsense.   Pure fandom.

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I could be mistaken but I believe I read that for the decade of the 2000's the Colts either won the most regular season games, or the 2nd most.

 

So,  either 1st or 2nd.      Not too bad.

 

Hey, if someone wants to say they're disappointed they didn't win more in the post-season I think that's fair.

 

Not enough Super Bowl wins?     I understand the disappointment.

 

But to call the Colts "awful" for a period of 6 years or so?     Come one......      there's no place on earth that would think of what the Colts accomplished in the 2000's as "awful".....     that's just nonsense.   Pure fandom.

 

We had the most wins Regular Season wins from 2000-2009 you are correct, barely edging out the Patriots. The Patriots had the most wins when you factor in Post Season games because they had 14 Post Season wins in that time frame. We still had 9 Post season wins from 2000-2009 which is Great.

[southwest1]

2 hours ago, Gavin said:

Addai wasn't just a complimentary Back. Come on now, He had 2 straight 1400+ total yard seasons and 23 total TD's his 1st two years in the league. He got hurt and wasn't the same and the O Line went to hell. He was a very capable lead Back who happened to get injured and never recover

You do make a good point Gavin. I tend to put EDGE & Dominic Rhodes on a pedestal & forget how truly valuable Addai was over the course of INDY's illustrious Championship history. 

 

I'm not a huge stat guy. Yes, I get their value for NFL history when documenting a players impact to a franchise. Thanks for reminding me how significant he was for INDY in 2006. 

 

By liking this post, I am not slamming Surge89 either. 

 

Yes, I know how important Joseph was in 2006. I just tend to hold EDGE in higher regard because he was so fascinating to watch on stretch plays. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

12 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I could be mistaken but I believe I read that for the decade of the 2000's the Colts either won the most regular season games, or the 2nd most.

 

So,  either 1st or 2nd.      Not too bad.

 

Hey, if someone wants to say they're disappointed they didn't win more in the post-season I think that's fair.

 

Not enough Super Bowl wins?     I understand the disappointment.

 

But to call the Colts "awful" for a period of 6 years or so?     Come one......      there's no place on earth that would think of what the Colts accomplished in the 2000's as "awful".....     that's just nonsense.   Pure fandom.

 

Amazingly since the Colts moved to Indiana, they have only had 1 stretch where they had 3 losing seasons in a row without at least being 8-8. That was the first 3 seasons here from 1984-1986. The only seasons where we weren't at least 8-8 or better are 1984, 1985, 1986, 1990, 1991, 1993, 1997, 1998, 2001, and 2011. Only 10 times out of 32 seasons we had a losing season.

[southwest1]

23 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think it's entirely possible that Goatbeard is kidding....      I certainly hope so.

 

But if he is,  then an emoticon to demonstrate some sarcasm would be in order.     Another poster asked if he was kidding and there was no response.

 

So,   I took him at face value.      And since we've had 2-3 posters over the years who have clearly not been fans of Luck,  then I think it's possible 50/50 that the guy was serious......

 

I certainly hope not....

Uh huh. That's what threw me off too. I had no idea how to gauge if GB was being serious or not.

 

Guys like BOTT, Ruksak, Shakedown Street, BraveheartColt, & 2006ColtsBestEver, I know well & I can always tell when they are just being smart cabooses for laughs even without a emoticon. But when I don't really know a guy; it's hard to get a read on where his head is at. 

 

Let's hope GB isn't dumb enough to throw in the towel on Luck. If he prefers losing organizations, I'm sure the Browns, Lions, Bucs will embrace his fan presence with open arms. 

[southwest1]

57 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We still had 9 Post season wins from 2000-2009 which is Great.

Yeah, that's why I feel bad for Luck. The tremendous benchmark standard Peyton set in our fan base's eyes. 

 

Now, most fans are reasonable, but when the bar of success has been established that high over almost a decade, it's a tough plateau to surpass. I have to remind myself that Luck is his own man not Manning's shadow & it will take time before Luck learns how to get to & win a SB. He'll get there & hoist the Lombardi over his head though. He's too darn talented not to. 

 

Dan Marino? Jim Kelly? I know what you're thinking. Chewy's story will be different. Call it intuition if you want. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

14 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

Yeah, that's why I feel bad for Luck. The tremendous benchmark standard Peyton set in our fan base's eyes. 

 

Now, most fans are reasonable, but when the bar of success has been established that high over almost a decade, it's a tough plateau to surpass. I have to remind myself that Luck is his own man not Manning's shadow & it will take time before Luck learns how to get to & win a SB. He'll get there & hoist the Lombardi over his head though. He's too darn talented not to. 

 

Dan Marino? Jim Kelly? I know what you're thinking. Chewy's story will be different. Call it intuition if you want. 

I really hope Andrew at least wins 1 Ring, man Kelly and Marino were so Great but get slammed for not winning the SB.

[southwest1]

22 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I really hope Andrew at least wins 1 Ring, man Kelly and Marino were so Great but get slammed for not winning the SB.

I read ya CBE. I revere both Marino & Kelly & am still baffled why their lack of rings gets held against them especially Jim with 4 consecutive trips to the SB. As much as I elevate rings more than I should, I never condemn either QB for that. 

 

Andrew will achieve Championships plural if we can keep him clean, upright, & allow him to be protected in the pocket. He's not a bad decision maker. He just gets stuck running for his life too much. 

 

To paraphrase the film "Field Of Dreams", "If you build it [a stout offensive line] Championships will come." 

 

I know I know it's a baseball genre reference & I dislike cross pollinating different sports leagues, but I truly believe that. Yes, Denver proved that defense wins a ring, but in 1999, Kurt Warner won his ring with a solid line & a rocket for an arm. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, southwest1 said:

I read ya CBE. I revere both Marino & Kelly & am still baffled why their lack of rings gets held against them especially Jim with 4 consecutive trips to the SB. As much as I elevate rings more than I should, I never condemn either QB for that. 

 

Andrew will achieve Championships plural if we can keep him clean, upright, & allow him to be protected in the pocket. He's not a bad decision maker. He just gets stuck running for his life too much. 

 

To paraphrase the film "Field Of Dreams", "If you build it [a stout offensive line] Championships will come." 

 

I know I know it's a baseball genre reference & I dislike cross pollinating different sports leagues, but I truly believe that. Yes, Denver proved that defense wins a ring, but in 1999, Kurt Warner won his ring with a solid line & a rocket for an arm. 

It's just a part of it SW, if you don't have at least 1 Ring the fans and media just don't look at you the same. If you win multiple Rings you get put on a pedestal like Peyton is now especially when you have Great all-time Stats and MVP's. Without a Ring the resume is empty and just no way around it. If Dan Marino would've won that SB against Montana in 1984 everyone would have him Top 3 of all-time without question but because he never won a SB many barely have him Top 10. Is that right? Probably not but winning is a huge part of a players legacy. I feel bad for Kelly because of a FG kicker he doesn't have the 1 Ring that eludes him. Many don't have him in the Top 20 QB's of all-time because he has 0 Rings.