Is Luck even 'teachable'?

[Lawrence Owen]

Don't get me wrong here, i love Andrew. his competitiveness and skill sets make him fun to watch and gives Indy a chance on every play. But can he really learn from his mistakes? 

2 years ago, he said he wanted to correct his "bone-head" mistakes.  And from what I saw last year, he made even more.  Yes, injuries plagued his throw motion and power/accuracy, but a lot of throws should not have even happened.  I would also throw in not getting rid of the ball fast on obvious blitzing situations, and not sliding feet first when scrambling as 'bone-headed' as well.

M.H. a lot of the time last year did not look like he was even playing football.  It was as though he was playing a professional game of "Hot Potato".   And IMO, he would have been selected All-Pro if it were the case.

Luck this year should learn from seeing that.  "Should" being the key word.  He hasn't seemed to learn from his other past mistakes.

This makes me wander if he is learning impaired in some aspects, or if he really did come into the NFL at his ceiling.  He should be getting better year-to-year, not staying the same, or as some could argue, regressing.

Maybe my observations are misguided, and next year Luck comes out and proves me wrong, but if he doesn't, I foresee another long, or bad case VERY short season for him.

The upgrades on the o-line should give him more time, and help the running game, which also increases time, but if he cannot improve on himself, I will be very disappointed.

[Carlos Danger]

You have a point, kind of... I'm just tickled that you are openly wondering if a Stanford grad is "learning impaired"

 

You probably didn't mean it the way I took it, but I thought it was funny nonetheless...

[backshoulderfade]

Hopefully the guy in front of him will call the right protections and do a decent job stopping pressure up the middle. Should help.

[B~Town]

Luck has some Big Ben traits for sure I hope a new scheme will work wonder for him .

[wig]

40 TDs and 16 picks two years ago.

[2006Coltsbestever]

The only thing he needs to get better at is getting rid of the ball quicker like Tom Brady does a lot. He does that his INT's and Fumbles will even go down. Everything else he is excellent at IMO. Getting rid of the ball quicker is huge though.

[Superman]

 

Luck will be fine. Best decision the Colts have made in the last year is getting rid of Pep Hamilton.

[Gavin]

I think to many expect him to be Peyton Manning....He wont ever be Peyton. Luck is and always will be much more Brett Favre, A QB that's capable of putting a team on his back and making great plays with his arm or his legs but also will always be the QB that will make plenty of boneheaded throws. Changing the offense somewhat wont change that.

 

What Luck needs to work on is blitz pick up and communicating that to his hot read and knowing when to run and slide as well as his ability to move within the pocket. a step here, A step here.....The little things that can go a long way in him not taking the hits he has.

 

As to the O Line: I think Castonzo will be better then he was last year. I think Mewhort will still be good, Not great. I think Ryan Kelly will be much better then what we have had at Center since we drafted Luck but he will still struggle because he is a rookie(To expect him to play great as a rookie or like a seasoned vet is just wishful thinking I think. Most rookies go through an adjustment period). I'm hoping Thornton lives up to potential and that Reitz is even better at RT than he was last year

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Lawrence Owen said:

Don't get me wrong here, i love Andrew. his competitiveness and skill sets make him fun to watch and gives Indy a chance on every play. But can he really learn from his mistakes? 

2 years ago, he said he wanted to correct his "bone-head" mistakes.  And from what I saw last year, he made even more.  Yes, injuries plagued his throw motion and power/accuracy, but a lot of throws should not have even happened.  I would also throw in not getting rid of the ball fast on obvious blitzing situations, and not sliding feet first when scrambling as 'bone-headed' as well.

M.H. a lot of the time last year did not look like he was even playing football.  It was as though he was playing a professional game of "Hot Potato".   And IMO, he would have been selected All-Pro if it were the case.

Luck this year should learn from seeing that.  "Should" being the key word.  He hasn't seemed to learn from his other past mistakes.

This makes me wander if he is learning impaired in some aspects, or if he really did come into the NFL at his ceiling.  He should be getting better year-to-year, not staying the same, or as some could argue, regressing.

Maybe my observations are misguided, and next year Luck comes out and proves me wrong, but if he doesn't, I foresee another long, or bad case VERY short season for him.

The upgrades on the o-line should give him more time, and help the running game, which also increases time, but if he cannot improve on himself, I will be very disappointed.

As great a player as Peyton was it took him how long to win a playoff game? How many years to win a super bowl? How many games did Manning lose because of poor defense and even worse special teams play?  The QB is at the mercy of how good the team is he is playing for. I find it pretty insulting for you to bring up the subject if Luck is teachable. I am not sure what Luck's IQ is but I would be willing to bet it is pretty high. Luck didn't major in nonsense courses at Stanford.

[NewColtsFan]

 

Don't over-think the room.     In football talk,   don't out-kick your coverage.

 

Luck has been hurt by a poorly conceived offense from Pep.

 

But that offense was hurt badly by (A) a very poor offensive line and (B) a nonexistent running game.

 

That reduced our offense to basically Andrew making plays.       That's a terrible thing to do to a QB -- any QB.

 

Luck should be helped by the Chudzinski offense.     He's not going to master it in one year,  but he should be much better than he's been.     And I think Chud is much better play caller than Pep.    He'll have a better feel.

 

Luck should be helped by a much improved offensive line.      That will help tighten up the pass blocking and especially the run blocking for Gore and Turbin and others.      That should make Luck's passing game even more effective.

 

Hopefully,  there are better days ahead for Colts fans....

 

 

 

[Surge89]

45 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Don't over-think the room.     In football talk,   don't out-kick your coverage.

 

Luck has been hurt by a poorly conceived offense from Pep.

 

But that offense was hurt badly by (A) a very poor offensive line and (B) a nonexistent running game.

 

That reduced our offense to basically Andrew making plays.       That's a terrible thing to do to a QB -- any QB.

 

Luck should be helped by the Chudzinski offense.     He's not going to master it in one year,  but he should be much better than he's been.     And I think Chud is much better play caller than Pep.    He'll have a better feel.

 

Luck should be helped by a much improved offensive line.      That will help tighten up the pass blocking and especially the run blocking for Gore and Turbin and others.      That should make Luck's passing game even more effective.

 

Hopefully,  there are better days ahead for Colts fans....

 

 

 

 

I agree with everything you said but remember this is a fan base that went through almost 10 years of a team with JUST Manning making plays. It's not how it's supposed to work but we saw a guy do it and make it normal. I think people need to come a little bit back down to earth and realize luck isn't manning. And he doesn't have to be. 

[Surge89]

On the probably original topic... luck is going to surprise a lot of people. Everyone is not fully understanding how much luck was hampered by Hamilton. 

 

It should be an awesome season to watch. 

 

P.S. my phone kept wanting to auto correct to "a good dragon to watch"... a sign?  Lol

[crazycolt1]

10 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

I agree with everything you said but remember this is a fan base that went through almost 10 years of a team with JUST Manning making plays. It's not how it's supposed to work but we saw a guy do it and make it normal. I think people need to come a little bit back down to earth and realize luck isn't manning. And he doesn't have to be. 

Somehow I find your comment about how Manning made it work with one super bowl win in 13 years a little hard to swallow. So you think it was normal for one of the greatest QBs in history to have one super bowl win with the Colts? I am not too sure about that myself.

[NewColtsFan]

10 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

I agree with everything you said but remember this is a fan base that went through almost 10 years of a team with JUST Manning making plays. It's not how it's supposed to work but we saw a guy do it and make it normal. I think people need to come a little bit back down to earth and realize luck isn't manning. And he doesn't have to be. 

 

Huh?

 

What happened to Hall of Famer Marvin Harrison?

 

What happened to future Hall of Famer Reggie Wayne

 

What happened to all-pro Dallas Clark?

 

What happened to all-pro Edgerin James?

 

What happened to a solid O-line that protected Peyton pretty darn well?

 

Peyton Manning wasn't winning 10-14 games a year by himself.........

 

I know I've only been a Colts fan since 2012,  but I've followed football pretty closely since the mid-1960's when I was just a kid.....      Manning had some serious talent to work with.

[Johnny Bui]

I think Luck can correct his mistake.  I really put a lot of blame on Pep.  Take a look at Chud against the broncos vs Pep for 2 years.  Luck probably had his best game in my opinion ever since we lost Brucie.

 

[Michigan_Colts_Fan]

341-547  4103 yards  26 Touchdowns 23 Interceptions 5-11 record

These were Manning's stats in 2001, when he looked like he regressed and probably had people wondering if he came in at his ceiling too.  I remember when I was able to see a game that year it was maddening watching Manning not trusting his teammates and trying to do everything himself and getting too cute with his play calls.  I remember yelling a lot to just run the play and stop with the nonsense at the line.  Now Luck is not Manning, but even Manning had a bad season after his rookie year so Luck still can become what everyone hopes he will be.  It took Dungy's voice coming in as a change at coach to help Manning achieve his potential and maybe all the changes with the assistant coaches will help Luck to do the same thing.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

7 hours ago, Lawrence Owen said:

...

This makes me wander if he is learning impaired in some aspects, or if he really did come into the NFL at his ceiling.  He should be getting better year-to-year, not staying the same, or as some could argue, regressing.

...

... Or maybe Luck was smart enough to see and know that his Offensive Coordinator was hot garbage? How would you play, if you knew that the one calling your plays was a deer in headlights? Maybe, just maybe, you would eventually be super frustrated and start forcing things on your own just to try and do something about the damn game? Just something to think about, IMO. 

[CoachLite]

As long as the fans, and even Andrew Luck, himself, feels that "he can put the team on his back" and single-handedly become Superman, he, and the Colts, will have problems. Cliche phrases like "giving 110%" are impossible. Players must play the game within themselves and in the context of the team. Luck needs to become comfortable "in the zone" where he can both relax with the flow of the game, and rely upon muscle memory to speed his execution. His coaching has been terrible - left too much by himself to figure things out.

 

No one reaches their potential by themselves. Everyone needs to find the right coach to succeed.

[csmopar]

4 hours ago, Michigan_Colts_Fan said:

341-547  4103 yards  26 Touchdowns 23 Interceptions 5-11 record

These were Manning's stats in 2001, when he looked like he regressed and probably had people wondering if he came in at his ceiling too.  I remember when I was able to see a game that year it was maddening watching Manning not trusting his teammates and trying to do everything himself and getting too cute with his play calls.  I remember yelling a lot to just run the play and stop with the nonsense at the line.  Now Luck is not Manning, but even Manning had a bad season after his rookie year so Luck still can become what everyone hopes he will be.  It took Dungy's voice coming in as a change at coach to help Manning achieve his potential and maybe all the changes with the assistant coaches will help Luck to do the same thing.

Ding ding. My thoughts exactly. 

[LockeDown]

Look, basically Luck, Pep, Pagano and Grigson were all rookies.  They have made rookie mistakes and still won a lot of games.  It was obvious to Pagano that we needed Chud to bring his knowledge and experience which helped and now he has brought in Philbin which is going to help.  2 guys that are proven at what they do.  When Luck had Arians, another proven guy, he broke the rookie passing record.  It's all setting up, except I think instead of the defense being the monster, our offense is going to be.  If not this year then next. 

[jameszeigler834]

9 hours ago, Lawrence Owen said:

Don't get me wrong here, i love Andrew. his competitiveness and skill sets make him fun to watch and gives Indy a chance on every play. But can he really learn from his mistakes? 

2 years ago, he said he wanted to correct his "bone-head" mistakes.  And from what I saw last year, he made even more.  Yes, injuries plagued his throw motion and power/accuracy, but a lot of throws should not have even happened.  I would also throw in not getting rid of the ball fast on obvious blitzing situations, and not sliding feet first when scrambling as 'bone-headed' as well.

M.H. a lot of the time last year did not look like he was even playing football.  It was as though he was playing a professional game of "Hot Potato".   And IMO, he would have been selected All-Pro if it were the case.

Luck this year should learn from seeing that.  "Should" being the key word.  He hasn't seemed to learn from his other past mistakes.

This makes me wander if he is learning impaired in some aspects, or if he really did come into the NFL at his ceiling.  He should be getting better year-to-year, not staying the same, or as some could argue, regressing.

Maybe my observations are misguided, and next year Luck comes out and proves me wrong, but if he doesn't, I foresee another long, or bad case VERY short season for him.

The upgrades on the o-line should give him more time, and help the running game, which also increases time, but if he cannot improve on himself, I will be very disappointed.

Of course he can everybody makes mistakes people your never going to be perfect you would throw 12 picks in 7 games too if you were running for your life.

[Smonroe]

To pile on what everyone has been saying - an improved O line should make a huge difference.

 

Give any pro QB even one extra second to make a decision, his QBR will improve drastically.

[Restored]

8 hours ago, Gavin said:

I think to many expect him to be Peyton Manning....He wont ever be Peyton. Luck is and always will be much more Brett Favre, A QB that's capable of putting a team on his back and making great plays with his arm or his legs but also will always be the QB that will make plenty of boneheaded throws. Changing the offense somewhat wont change that.

 

What Luck needs to work on is blitz pick up and communicating that to his hot read and knowing when to run and slide as well as his ability to move within the pocket. a step here, A step here.....The little things that can go a long way in him not taking the hits he has.

 

As to the O Line: I think Castonzo will be better then he was last year. I think Mewhort will still be good, Not great. I think Ryan Kelly will be much better then what we have had at Center since we drafted Luck but he will still struggle because he is a rookie(To expect him to play great as a rookie or like a seasoned vet is just wishful thinking I think. Most rookies go through an adjustment period). I'm hoping Thornton lives up to potential and that Reitz is even better at RT than he was last year

 

To the bolded, I respectfully disagree. By that logic, Peyton Manning was more Favre his first four years as well. Carrying team on back, boneheaded Ints etc. It wasn't until Jim Caldwell (who doesn't get the credit he deserves IMO) got with Peyton in 2002 that Manning started to see his INT's drop significantly. I believe Andrew to posses this same coachable trait as well.

[IndyD4U]

When you have inconsistent teachings, this is what you get. When you have a guy trying to carry the team week in and week out,  this is what you get.

 

Luck will be fine. 

[CR91]

It's not that he's not teachable. Luck just has that never say die mentality. It's a instinct not a lot have. To do whatever it takes to win. You love it when your QB has it because it makes them great, but it can also be a double-edge sword at times

[superrep1967]

8 hours ago, Gavin said:

I think to many expect him to be Peyton Manning....He wont ever be Peyton. Luck is and always will be much more Brett Favre, A QB that's capable of putting a team on his back and making great plays with his arm or his legs but also will always be the QB that will make plenty of boneheaded throws. Changing the offense somewhat wont change that.

 

What Luck needs to work on is blitz pick up and communicating that to his hot read and knowing when to run and slide as well as his ability to move within the pocket. a step here, A step here.....The little things that can go a long way in him not taking the hits he has.

 

As to the O Line: I think Castonzo will be better then he was last year. I think Mewhort will still be good, Not great. I think Ryan Kelly will be much better then what we have had at Center since we drafted Luck but he will still struggle because he is a rookie(To expect him to play great as a rookie or like a seasoned vet is just wishful thinking I think. Most rookies go through an adjustment period). I'm hoping Thornton lives up to potential and that Reitz is even better at RT than he was last year

You right! With R. Kelly you have to worry about him hitting the rookie wall as well. But I do think the o-line will be better this than has been in recent years.

[superrep1967]

2 hours ago, CoachLite said:

As long as the fans, and even Andrew Luck, himself, feels that "he can put the team on his back" and single-handedly become Superman, he, and the Colts, will have problems. Cliche phrases like "giving 110%" are impossible. Players must play the game within themselves and in the context of the team. Luck needs to become comfortable "in the zone" where he can both relax with the flow of the game, and rely upon muscle memory to speed his execution. His coaching has been terrible - left too much by himself to figure things out.

 

No one reaches their potential by themselves. Everyone needs to find the right coach to succeed.

Very well put I totally agree!

[superrep1967]

6 hours ago, Michigan_Colts_Fan said:

341-547  4103 yards  26 Touchdowns 23 Interceptions 5-11 record

These were Manning's stats in 2001, when he looked like he regressed and probably had people wondering if he came in at his ceiling too.  I remember when I was able to see a game that year it was maddening watching Manning not trusting his teammates and trying to do everything himself and getting too cute with his play calls.  I remember yelling a lot to just run the play and stop with the nonsense at the line.  Now Luck is not Manning, but even Manning had a bad season after his rookie year so Luck still can become what everyone hopes he will be.  It took Dungy's voice coming in as a change at coach to help Manning achieve his potential and maybe all the changes with the assistant coaches will help Luck to do the same thing.

I hope your right and there's a good chance you are.

[Lawrence Owen]

Let me go more in depth with is he teachable.  What i mean by this is:

Anyone can look at a play when it goes this way and say"bonehead mistake".....

Center snaps the ball, Luck drops back and see's blitz.  He looks to his primary, and see Hilton streaking down the sidelines with a half step on the corner, but the deep safety close enough to make a play,...figuring he has the arm, and no time to look him off, he throws anyway,...resulting in a pick.

 

But what is by lucky circumstance Hilton catches the ball?.....both the defenders run into each other, and Hilton run it in for an 80 yard TD?

Is Luck calling that a great play?...or a LUCKY play on a bonehead mistake?  

Some throws you don't even attempt.

Some guys you don't try to run over.

Sometimes quick 4-5 yard plays over and over are better than 1 big 20+ yarder.

 

As I stated in the original post, I absolutely LOVE Andrew.  And I know his skill sets can carry a team.  But this is a team,..he has playmakers around him to help.  He does not have to risk injury to make another 2 yards on a scramble, or throw into ridiculously tight coverage / double coverage, to get down the field.

 

Yes the extra o-line help/improvement should ease Lucks nerves somewhat.  And a lot of his throws last year were VERY errant, and probably from injuries.  But HE is the one who has said "I make boneheaded mistakes, and and going to work on correcting them."  I'm just wandering if he is trying to do so?...and if he has been trying,  where is these results of fixing them?  I pray we see the results this year.

[superrep1967]

Just now, superrep1967 said:

I hope your right and there's a good chance you are.

 

[lollygagger8]

9 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Luck will be fine. Best decision the Colts have made in the last year is getting rid of Pep Hamilton.

 

I can't decide between Pep and Toler being gone, which was better. 

 

Either way......

[Surge89]

7 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Somehow I find your comment about how Manning made it work with one super bowl win in 13 years a little hard to swallow. So you think it was normal for one of the greatest QBs in history to have one super bowl win with the Colts? I am not too sure about that myself.

 

Sorry not following help me understand. My point was that Manning didn't have a team from 06 and on and had to do it himself.  I'm not saying it's normal to only have one super bowl I'm saying manning carried a not so good team his last years here and made it normal to win without an adequate team...

[Surge89]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Huh?

 

What happened to Hall of Famer Marvin Harrison?

 

What happened to future Hall of Famer Reggie Wayne

 

What happened to all-pro Dallas Clark?

 

What happened to all-pro Edgerin James?

 

What happened to a solid O-line that protected Peyton pretty darn well?

 

Peyton Manning wasn't winning 10-14 games a year by himself.........

 

I know I've only been a Colts fan since 2012,  but I've followed football pretty closely since the mid-1960's when I was just a kid.....      Manning had some serious talent to work with.

 

No he didnt his last year's here which is what I'm talking about. All of those players are nice to name but #1 they were all in their primes early in manning's career and 2 all of those players literally depended on manning's play...

 

Also his oline feel apart when Glenn left.  Manning made those lines look at least 200% better with his own ability. 

 

And that isn't even addressing the stale coaching that manning endured. People complain about Pagano but at least he attempts to change things when stuff isn't working. Oh the horror of watching Jennings consistently beat over and over the same way (just one example of many) was gruesome to watch. 

[OffensivelyPC]

36 minutes ago, Lawrence Owen said:

Let me go more in depth with is he teachable.

You probably shouldn't.  This thread was a disaster starting at the subject heading.

[bababooey]

10 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Luck will be fine. Best decision the Colts have made in the last year is getting rid of Pep Hamilton.

That and building a much better O line.

[Narcosys]

I can agree with the OP some.  I've always disliked his accuracy issues. Most interceptions were because he throws high and/or behind his receivers.  This hasn't changed one bit over the years,  so idk if he can learn.  

[CoachLite]

Just read an article where Andrew Luck described going through his pre-snap routine. To me, it illustrated the problem many smart football players have - thinking through the progression in words. That takes too long, and most aspects of pro football simply evolve too fast. I hope Luck learns to see all the "described" patterns in non-verbal terms - just read the pattern, cue a simple message, and react.

[Valpo2004]

13 hours ago, Lawrence Owen said:

Don't get me wrong here, i love Andrew. his competitiveness and skill sets make him fun to watch and gives Indy a chance on every play. But can he really learn from his mistakes? 

2 years ago, he said he wanted to correct his "bone-head" mistakes.  And from what I saw last year, he made even more.  Yes, injuries plagued his throw motion and power/accuracy, but a lot of throws should not have even happened.  I would also throw in not getting rid of the ball fast on obvious blitzing situations, and not sliding feet first when scrambling as 'bone-headed' as well.

M.H. a lot of the time last year did not look like he was even playing football.  It was as though he was playing a professional game of "Hot Potato".   And IMO, he would have been selected All-Pro if it were the case.

Luck this year should learn from seeing that.  "Should" being the key word.  He hasn't seemed to learn from his other past mistakes.

This makes me wander if he is learning impaired in some aspects, or if he really did come into the NFL at his ceiling.  He should be getting better year-to-year, not staying the same, or as some could argue, regressing.

Maybe my observations are misguided, and next year Luck comes out and proves me wrong, but if he doesn't, I foresee another long, or bad case VERY short season for him.

The upgrades on the o-line should give him more time, and help the running game, which also increases time, but if he cannot improve on himself, I will be very disappointed.

 

A lot of the time on the obvious blitzes I didn't even notice a receiver who was running a quick passing route.  I think a lot of that was on Pep Hamilton.

 

Dude had his best game of the year against the best defense in the league in Denver as soon as Chud took over.

 

I wouldn't worry that much. . . we're not that far removed from him leading the league in TD passes.  

[chad72]

When the offense does well, it is all the QB. When it does not, it is all the QB. That is unfortunately the age we live in, mass praise or blame.

 

A more mature O-line, mature OC with Tom Moore, mature OL coach with Howard Mudd, playing with Marvin, starting with Faulk (who is one of the most brainy RBs and complete package you could find out there at that time) are all the situations Peyton was fortunate to walk into, IMO. Yet, it took a while for us to win a playoff game and put together that 7 year stretch of 12 games. If Luck had started with winning just 6 or 7 games and hit 10 games just once in his first 4 years, it seems like we'd be giving him more leeway than we're giving him now for winning early despite our team's limitations. Such is the price of winning and expectations that come with it. 

[TDewar1987]

11 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Luck will be fine. Best decision the Colts have made in the last year is getting rid of Pep Hamilton.

Is that the episode of SG-1 where Jack and Teal'c keep repeating the same day over and over?