Why Is Manning’S Replacement Such A Problem?

[bWild]

He was given a chance to "compete" for a job here last offseason.

It was Reggie Wayne's opinion that we needed to go with Painter, and it was the front offices opinion that we needed to go with Kerry Collins. He flat out OUT-PLAYED both of them! He should be the only quarterback we should keep from our current roster (depending on the status Peyton Manning).

I don't think that one training camp really constitutes as having a chance to even learn the offense. He also didn't have the benefit of a real off-season with the lock-out and everything that went down. I firmly believe that Bill and Chris Polian had a thing or two to do with not giving him a real chance after training camp so that they could "vindicate" themselves with Painter. Collins was just a desperation move in my opinion.

[GoColts8818]

I dont want luck either, Im not a fan of lucks...Every highlight I have seen of the kid...he runs more than he throws. If I can find the links Ill post, so everyone sees what I see...

But what i am saying is, IS HE OUR GUY? I see him run more than he passes, does this mean he cant pass that well, because all the highlights I see are of him hitting receivers in busted coverage or is it because he would rather tuck and run, because he isnt accurate...I dont know. I dont know anything about him...and I havent seen anything in the highlights that makes me believe he is the next man for Indy...

Irsay will do what he wants with this draft and all the fans will like regardless.

The past two years Luck's Pass Completion % is above 70%.

To give you an idea in college Manning's best year was 64%.

I don't think there is a question about if Luck is accurate. If anything throwing on the run would make how accurate you are go down.

[Superman]

Indy will have to go the way of the big, blocking TE, A bigger O-line, which they worked on some this yr, & the bigger, (not huge, but Ray Rice like) good hands back. This is kind of diverting away from Manning's smaller offense, but, how much longer are we going to have him? They cannot pass up on an Andrew Luck.

You don't need the big blocking tight end to run in the NFL anymore. None of the top running teams use big blocking tight ends as a major part of their success on the ground.

And Ray Rice is 5'8", 212 pounds, one of the smallest backs in the NFL.

Size is highly overstated and overrated.

[JoKeR]

[Tony Sullivan]

Take a look at Jeff George's career numbers and you tell me if you honestly think he holds up well when compared to "non busts" in the NFL

http://www.pro-footb.../G/GeorJe00.htm

He had A great year with the Vikings and it came during a three stretch where all Vikings QBs were putting up eye popping numbers because they were playing with Moss and Carter. I think that had more to do with the WRs around the QB than it did the QBs themselves.

For the Raiders he probably hadthe best single season of his career but it was one year there out of how many where he probably lived up to the idea he was once a former top overall pick? Even then he didn't produce in the most important stat, wins.

As for Atlanta he was mediocare at best. Again look at his numbers.

The biggest problem that did George in every where he went was his attitude which is why if you notice out side of here his longest stent with a team was two years and three games. Top overall picks at QBs are guys you can build your team around. George was never that and when it was tried the teams fell apart very quickly. Generally speaking guys that you can't build your team around and are top overall picks in the draft are viewed as busts. He might not be the worst overall top pick as a QB but make no mistake he is viewed by most as a bust.

I've looked at his numbers, 80.4 QB rating, twenty eight thousand passing yards, 1.36:1 TD/Int ratio. This would put him in the top half of the league at QB play.

I never said he was worth a 1st overall, but he had a respectable career.

[JoKeR]

[BOTT]

Steve Young would be what I would call the fastest great quarterback. I'm not sure I would say that he had elite speed, but he was more mobile than any of the others in the top 10 of all time. Most were true drop back passers, and the others were usually in the WCO at one point or another.

steve young isn't in the top 10 list for one...and he prolly wasn't any faster than elway

[BOTT]

Warren Moon or Randle Cunningham might be better. Honeslty Steve McNair was probably the best "running" QB in the NFL.

warren moon? i don't remember him being much of a runner at all. he was your classic pocket passer

[ruksak]

kewl....now lets see a vid of his mistakes.

[BOTT]

Well obviously right now Cam Newton has ripped it up for a rookie... which is almost like the mold of RGIII, except Cam is much bigger... this isnt the 80s or 90s QB's are getting much better.

which is why i wouldn't take rg3...the guy has a slight build

[FireJimCaldwell]

This past year they played two common opponents Washington & Oklahoma State.

Each hung 60 points on Washington and each lost to Oklahoma State

RG III 57/83 68.9% 720 yards 2 td 2 int 34 rushes 82 yards and 2 td's

Luck 43/52 82.7% 516 yards 4 td 1 int 7 rushes 20 yards

[FireJimCaldwell]

steve young isn't in the top 10 list for one...and he prolly wasn't any faster than elway

I guess it depends on the list. I'd take him before Elway and the guy he replaced...

[JoKeR]

kewl....now lets see a vid of his mistakes.

lol fans don't make those and it would be a short video anyway.

But I posted a RG3 highlight video too that's pretty amazing. Its just under the Luck post

[BOTT]

I guess it depends on the list. I'd take him before Elway and the guy he replaced...

so you would take a qb that was mediocre in the usfl and a bust with tampa bay over a guy who carried some very average denver teams to the super bowl?

[GoColts8818]

I've looked at his numbers, 80.4 QB rating, twenty eight thousand passing yards, 1.36:1 TD/Int ratio. This would put him in the top half of the league at QB play.

I never said he was worth a 1st overall, but he had a respectable career.

then if he wasn't that would make him a bust...

If George had been say a third round pick people would have said hey for a third round pick yeah he had a pretty good career and they would be right. He wasn't. He was drafted first overall and if you are drafted that high you are expected to be one of the best players in the league at your poistion over the corse of your career not just be in the top half of the league.

[Balzer40]

kewl....now lets see a vid of his mistakes.

He didn't make any. ;)

[JoKeR]

which is why i wouldn't take rg3...the guy has a slight build

Not really he's 220 but only 6"2, which isn't bad only 2 inches shorter. What worries me is that NFL caliber players will hit him much harder than some of the kids he played against. RG3 highlight above, check it out, its entertaining.

[FireJimCaldwell]

so you would take a qb that was mediocre in the usfl and a bust with tampa bay over a guy who carried some very average denver teams to the super bowl?

I would take Steve Young over John Elway. Pretty simple.

[GoColts8818]

warren moon? i don't remember him being much of a runner at all. he was your classic pocket passer

He wasn't Cunningham running the ball but he could move. You have to remember he came along at a time that the idea of a QB being able to run at all made them running QBs. I can see how when compared to modern QBs people would say he wasn't a runnng QB.

With that said I think the best "running" QBs are the ones who get remembered as passing QBs not unlike Steve Young, Steve McNair or McNabb. All of them were thought to be "running" QBs when they started but when their careers were finished were thought of as just QBs.

[BOTT]

Not really he's 220 but only 6"2, which isn't bad only 2 inches shorter. What worries me is that NFL caliber will hot him much harder than some of the kids he played against. RG3 highlight above, check it out, its entertaining.

that usually means 6'0 213. what players get listed at mean nothing....mike vick is listed as 6'1 and he is prolly more like 5'11. i could be wrong, but when i saw him play he look kinda scrawny....ripped but scrawny by nfl standards

[BOTT]

I would take Steve Young over John Elway. Pretty simple.

thanks for the insight

[Superman]

that usually means 6'0 213. what players get listed at mean nothing....mike vick is listed as 6'1 and he is prolly more like 5'11. i could be wrong, but when i saw him play he look kinda scrawny....ripped but scrawny by nfl standards

The Combine measurements are usually legitimate. Those are rarely the numbers that the player winds up being listed at though, and sometimes players keep growing and/or put on weight in the NFL.

[GoColts8818]

The Combine measurements are usually legitimate.

Right that's the point of combine measurements to take away from people putting out "inflated" numbers. Not to say sometimes a guy might not skate threw.

[BOTT]

He wasn't Cunningham running the ball but he could move. You have to remember he came along at a time that the idea of a QB being able to run at all made them running QBs. I can see how when compared to modern QBs people would say he wasn't a runnng QB.

With that said I think the best "running" QBs are the ones who get remembered as passing QBs not unlike Steve Young, Steve McNair or McNabb. All of them were thought to be "running" QBs when they started but when their careers were finished were thought of as just QBs.

well fran tarkington was around long before him. plus guys like roger staubach and joe montana scrambled pretty well. i'm just saying warren moon wasn't even considered that mobile

[Balzer40]

that usually means 6'0 213. what players get listed at mean nothing....mike vick is listed as 6'1 and he is prolly more like 5'11. i could be wrong, but when i saw him play he look kinda scrawny....ripped but scrawny by nfl standards

I agree. I've seen some analysts say Griffin is closer to 6'0" than to 6'2".

[GoColts8818]

well fran tarkington was around long before him. plus guys like roger staubach and joe montana scrambled pretty well. i'm just saying warren moon wasn't even considered that mobile

Yes he was, I looked at his numbers, while he might not have been the most mobile QB he could move.

http://www.pro-footb.../M/MoonWa00.htm

That's Moon now compare those numbers to a guy in Montana who you said scambled pretty well.

http://www.pro-footb.../M/MontJo01.htm

You tell me which one was more of a runner. Maybe being able to scramle would be a better way to describe Moon than true "running" QB.

Just for sake of arguement here are Staubach's

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StauRo00.htm

I'd say Moon would be in whatever group you put the two of them in.

[BOTT]

The Combine measurements are usually legitimate. Those are rarely the numbers that the player winds up being listed at though, and sometimes players keep growing and/or put on weight in the NFL.

combine numbers are accurate, but they still change them afterwards. warren sapp came in under 6'1 during the draft, and yet he was listed as what 6'2? the colts listed cato june as 225, but admitted on the radio he played at 213. i don't know why they do it, but they do.

[JoKeR]

I agree. I've seen some analysts say Griffin is closer to 6'0" than to 6'2".

I don't know he's kinda lanky, I wouldn't be surprised if he is 6"2. and watch my highlight video^, NOW! jk

So does that mean Luck is 6"2 instead of 6"4?

[BOTT]

Yes he was, I looked at his numbers, while he might not have been the most mobile QB he could move.

http://www.pro-footb.../M/MoonWa00.htm

That's Moon now compare those numbers to a guy in Montana who you said scambled pretty well.

http://www.pro-footb.../M/MontJo01.htm

You tell me which one was more of a runner. Maybe being able to scramle would be a better way to describe Moon than true "running" QB.

Just for sake of arguement here are Staubach's

http://www.pro-footb.../S/StauRo00.htm

I'd say Moon would be in whatever group you put the two of them in.

guess i was wrong about him not being mobile. man, i just don't ever remember that part of his game....

[Balzer40]

I don't know he's kinda lanky, I wouldn't be surprised if he is 6"2. and watch my highlight video^, NOW! jk

So does that mean Luck is 6"2 instead of 6"4?

Being lanky is also a mark against him IMO. I honestly think they only boost the shorter, lighter players numbers to make them more attractive to potential suiters. It don't really make sense because teams find out at the combine anyway, but I was just basing what I said from a couple of analysts that said he's not 6'2".

[GoColts8818]

guess i was wrong about him not being mobile. man, i just don't ever remember him that part of his game....

and that's get to my point about moblie QBs, if they are truly great QBs people seem forget that they are "running" QBs and just remember them as QBs.

[IndyTrav]

Someone earlier had mentioned Matt Ryan and Peyton Manning being mentioned as comparisions. I got to looking at the two. Its pretty impressive.

Matt Ryans first 4 years.

1232-Comp 2022-Att 60.9% 14,328-yds, 95TDs, 46ints, 88.4 rating. He had 13 game winning drives, and an overall record of 43-19. Played in all but 2 games.

Peyton Mannings first 4

1357-Comp 2226-Att 60.9% 16,418-yds, 111TDs,81ints, 85.1 rating. He had 11 game winning drives, and an overalll record of 32-32. Played all games.

If your going to be compared to two people, thats some nice company to be in.

[Superman]

combine numbers are accurate, but they still change them afterwards. warren sapp came in under 6'1 during the draft, and yet he was listed as what 6'2? the colts listed cato june as 225, but admitted on the radio he played at 213. i don't know why they do it, but they do.

Weight is very fluid. Plus, agents lie.

But that's what I was saying. They might not use the Combine measurements for the listings, but the Combine measurements are generally accurate. At the time, anyways.

[Tony Sullivan]

then if he wasn't that would make him a bust...

If George had been say a third round pick people would have said hey for a third round pick yeah he had a pretty good career and they would be right. He wasn't. He was drafted first overall and if you are drafted that high you are expected to be one of the best players in the league at your poistion over the corse of your career not just be in the top half of the league.

I disagreed with your assessment of how bad he was. You said he was so bad that we got Peyton Manning because of him. Even though he left the Colts 5 seasons before Manning wore the horseshoe.

[IndyTrav]

and that's get to my point about moblie QBs, if they are truly great QBs people seem forget that they are "running" QBs and just remember them as QBs.

to be fair Warren Moon didn't come into the NFL until he was 28. He had over 1700 yds rushing in the CFL.

[GoColts8818]

I disagreed with your assessment of how bad he was. You said he was so bad that we got Peyton Manning because of him.

Yeah we did, had he panned out the way he planned when we drafted him we would have not been in poistion to draft Peyton Manning. It's pretty hard to argue that any part of Jeff George in Indy went well. He was a miss as a top overall pick and like most misses of a top overall pick he set us back, now granted he had plunty of help along the way.

Like I said he was a bust I laid out why he was a bust. If you want to try to argue he was a success I don't think you are going to find many that agree with you on that view point of him since he was a top overall pick. Like I said in another response to you he might not have been the worst QB ever taken at number one overall but he was still a bust.

[ruksak]

lol fans don't make those and it would be a short video anyway.

But I posted a RG3 highlight video too that's pretty amazing. Its just under the Luck post

I know. Please be patient as it is incumbent upon me as the class clown to be a sarcastic buthole as often as the opportunity is afforded me.

[JoKeR]

I know. Please be patient as it is incumbent upon me as the class clown to be a sarcastic buthole as often as the opportunity is afforded me.

I know but I took the opportunity point out the other side of the argument with a RG3 vid. He's got some crazy moves and speed.

[Tony Sullivan]

Yeah we did, had he panned out the way he planned when we drafted him we would have not been in poistion to draft Peyton Manning. It's pretty hard to argue that any part of Jeff George in Indy went well. He was a miss as a top overall pick and like most misses of a top overall pick he set us back, now granted he had plunty of help along the way.

Like I said he was a bust I laid out why he was a bust. If you want to try to argue he was a success I don't think you are going to find many that agree with you on that view point of him since he was a top overall pick. Like I said in another response to you he might not have been the worst QB ever taken at number one overall but he was still a bust.

He had an 80.4 career QB rating, nearly 30 thousand yards and threw more TD's than INT's. Not to mention he put on a heck of a show in Minnesota and threatened 'The Greatest Show On Turf,' in the playoffs. I'm sure many would agree that would be successful QB career.

Is he a bust in the sense that he was a 1st overall? I'd say so. But was he a 'bad,' QB that couldn't cut it in the league either? Certainly not.

And you certainly can't blame him for the Colts 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997 seasons. The year the Colts went 1-15 to get Manning, George threw for about 4000 yards and roughly 30 TDs and 10 INTs.

[ruksak]

I know but I took the opportunity point out the other side of the argument with a RG3 vid. He's got some crazy moves and speed.

Is this Leaf vs Manning all over again? Decisions decisions.