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I dont think Peyton will last the season....

bap1331

By bap1331
in NFL General

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dw49 Team Captain

dw49

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I don't think that is it. It is as simple as Peyton hitting Sanders or DT beyond 20 yards a few times in the game. Once that happens, everything opens up. This article summarizes it well:

 

http://milehighsports.com/a-simple-solution-will-fix-the-denver-broncos-offense/

 

 

Maybe ... maybe not. Because a QB can throw a floater that goes 40 yards instead of the needed 35 , IMO does not mean he has plenty of arm strength left. Teams are taking away the easy throws over the middle and making him beat them over the top or throw those tough downfield outs ... which I know he can't make anymore. I've said that I doubt he has the arm strength to be elite in other threads. I'm by no means claiming to be correct after game 1. In fact I would rather be wrong as he's my favorite NFL player outside of Colt players. I'm thinking by year's end , Denver will be at a big disadvantage playing a cold weather game with a possibly "worn out" Manning.

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amfootball Walk On

amfootball

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I don't think that is it. It is as simple as Peyton hitting Sanders or DT beyond 20 yards a few times in the game. Once that happens, everything opens up. This article summarizes it well:

 

http://milehighsports.com/a-simple-solution-will-fix-the-denver-broncos-offense/

This is a very simplistic explanation IMO from an author that does not understand Kubiak's offense. It is predicated on the zone run blocking scheme and the QBs ability to do the stretch run hand offs as well as bootleg. The issue as I see it is Manning is not able to do the stretch runs or the bootlegs. You saw him throw a couple of times on the run yesterday and it was ugly. Without that aspect, Kubiak's offense because neutralized and a series of dump offs that Manning routinely checked down to yesterday. As DW49 said, teams are taking away the easy throws over the middle and making him beat them over the top or throw those tough downfield outs and he has not shown yet that he can hit those.

 

I would argue that what Denver needs to more of is run on first down. It worked early in the game and then went away from it and continually ran on first for little yardage, passed on second and then passed on third. The Ravens had a great beat on their offense the entire second half until the final drive when they were clearly gassed and Suggs left the game with his injury and they still held Denver to a FG.

 

I do agree with the author that Denver will continue to see the same style of defense that they saw from the Colts last year which they copied from both the Pats and Rams and then the Ravens copied yesterday. Basically defenses will continue to crowd the line until Denver can prove it can take advantage ...

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oldunclemark Walk On

oldunclemark

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One thing I noticed when watching the game was Manning called very few audibles, he got the play, lined up and ran it.  Additionally, if Kubiak is going to call the naked bootleg with Manning, he needs to have Manning roll to the right, not to the left.

CD..I noticed that, too..but they also threw 40 times with little play-action.

They're trying to blend two systems and right now...its a bad brew

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The Old Crow Practice Squad

The Old Crow

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Yep...I mean he lead them to a game winning TD before his defense gave up the biggest blunder in Denver history but yeah Peyton's had some terrible losses as a favorite....that 2005 Pittsburgh loss still eats me. I know the OL looked like a bunch of high schoolers that game but that was the greatest Indianapolis team we've ever seen here. It's not the best that wins it all...seen that too many times.

I don't mean to beat on Peyton because I like him. I'm already depressed because of the Orioles crummy season, and now I had to watch the Ravens blow a winnable game on the road.

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chad72 Ring of Honor

chad72

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This is a very simplistic explanation IMO from an author that does not understand Kubiak's offense. It is predicated on the zone run blocking scheme and the QBs ability to do the stretch run hand offs as well as bootleg. The issue as I see it is Manning is not able to do the stretch runs or the bootlegs. You saw him throw a couple of times on the run yesterday and it was ugly. Without that aspect, Kubiak's offense because neutralized and a series of dump offs that Manning routinely checked down to yesterday. As DW49 said, teams are taking away the easy throws over the middle and making him beat them over the top or throw those tough downfield outs and he has not shown yet that he can hit those.

 

I would argue that what Denver needs to more of is run on first down. It worked early in the game and then went away from it and continually ran on first for little yardage, passed on second and then passed on third. The Ravens had a great beat on their offense the entire second half until the final drive when they were clearly gassed and Suggs left the game with his injury and they still held Denver to a FG.

 

I do agree with the author that Denver will continue to see the same style of defense that they saw from the Colts last year which they copied from both the Pats and Rams and then the Ravens copied yesterday. Basically defenses will continue to crowd the line until Denver can prove it can take advantage ...

 

That is what that guy said, to my understanding. In the Colts playoff game, same throws to the outside for Sanders that he could not make, same thing is being dared by teams. Teams are crowding the middle and he has to hit those sideline passes more often. In his prime, teams would force the Colts to run with 2 safeties behind but now, it is single safety high daring Peyton to connect with those outside wide outs outside the numbers. By crowding the middle and having a safety closer to the box, the run does not stand a chance, whether it is first or second down. He has to open up the run with the pass, no two ways about it. He is being dared like Chad Pennington???

 

He was hitting those in the Arizona Cardinals game last year and all of a sudden, after the Rams game, the wheels fell off or he doesn't that feel anymore. Maybe it is his nerves. Not sure. 

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oldunclemark Walk On

oldunclemark

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That is what that guy said, to my understanding. In the Colts playoff game, same throws to the outside for Sanders that he could not make, same thing is being dared by teams. Teams are crowding the middle and he has to hit those sideline passes more often. In his prime, teams would force the Colts to run with 2 safeties behind but now, it is single safety high daring Peyton to connect with those outside wide outs outside the numbers. By crowding the middle and having a safety closer to the box, the run does not stand a chance, whether it is first or second down. He has to open up the run with the pass, no two ways about it. He is being dared like Chad Pennington???

 

He was hitting those in the Arizona Cardinals game last year and all of a sudden, after the Rams game, the wheels fell off or he doesn't that feel anymore. Maybe it is his nerves. Not sure.

\On those outside throws..which are there..

He's overthrowing them...for some reason misjudging Sanders speed...

Talk of him arm strength isn't obvious on those lone sideline throws....He's overthrowing Sanders, their fastest guy.

...I would be more concerned if he was underthrowing him...Peyton is throwing the ball a little early..(maybe due to a lack of confidence in the line) and amazingly, Sanders cant get there

....I think they'll get it together but I'm not sure why they havent

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amfootball Walk On

amfootball

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That is what that guy said, to my understanding. In the Colts playoff game, same throws to the outside for Sanders that he could not make, same thing is being dared by teams. Teams are crowding the middle and he has to hit those sideline passes more often. In his prime, teams would force the Colts to run with 2 safeties behind but now, it is single safety high daring Peyton to connect with those outside wide outs outside the numbers. By crowding the middle and having a safety closer to the box, the run does not stand a chance, whether it is first or second down. He has to open up the run with the pass, no two ways about it. He is being dared like Chad Pennington???

 

He was hitting those in the Arizona Cardinals game last year and all of a sudden, after the Rams game, the wheels fell off or he doesn't that feel anymore. Maybe it is his nerves. Not sure. 

Yes, I agree. When I was talking about the run, I was talking about going away from it when it was successful early. They O became very predictable in the second half but as you say that may have to do with the box being stacked and the DBs up.

 

When I watch Manning throw, he has not just lost strength but accuracy as well. That is a tough combo but again just the first game so let's see how Thursday goes. I think he needs some latitude with the new offense.

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amfootball Walk On

amfootball

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51 games..  Really..???  

That is what the broadcast people during the telecast of the game said but I think they had it confused with his passing TD streak which ended at 51. I think it has been much longer as according to this article, Manning has never not scored a TD in his whole time in Denver so it would have to go back to his Colts days, http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_28807413/peyton-manning-broncos-offense-cant-count-defense-always

 

Either way, that is one impressive stat.

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dgambill Practice Squad

dgambill

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I don't mean to beat on Peyton because I like him. I'm already depressed because of the Orioles crummy season, and now I had to watch the Ravens blow a winnable game on the road.

No biggie...Peyton hasn't been Peyton for almost a year now...so I'm a little depressed too. I was hoping for a magical season for him to muster up just enough arm to keep that team in contention but if that OL operates like that the whole season...it will look more like Favre's last season than Elways.

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dgambill Practice Squad

dgambill

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FYI, Manning is on the injury report for Denver with a back injury, http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/15/peyton-manning-pops-up-on-injury-report/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=nfl

 

He did practice with it though so must not be very serious.

He got banged up pretty good....if the Broncos want to have a different finish to their season they best do a LOT  better job blocking for him...especially this week....I think you remember what KC did to Brady last year in KC...Thursday night will be INSANE.

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dgambill Practice Squad

dgambill

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That is what the broadcast people during the telecast of the game said but I think they had it confused with his passing TD streak which ended at 51. I think it has been much longer as according to this article, Manning has never not scored a TD in his whole time in Denver so it would have to go back to his Colts days, http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_28807413/peyton-manning-broncos-offense-cant-count-defense-always

 

Either way, that is one impressive stat.

He did have a couple good early drives that got killed by penalties and that last drive was VERY important to help finish off the game he just couldn't get 7. It won't get any easier this week thats for sure.

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dgambill Practice Squad

dgambill

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Yes, I agree. When I was talking about the run, I was talking about going away from it when it was successful early. They O became very predictable in the second half but as you say that may have to do with the box being stacked and the DBs up.

 

When I watch Manning throw, he has not just lost strength but accuracy as well. That is a tough combo but again just the first game so let's see how Thursday goes. I think he needs some latitude with the new offense.

I agree about the accuracy etc and definately needs more time to work out the kinks. You ask the guy to take less reps in practice but you are running a new offense and he is learning and that usually isn't a recipe for a guy that is a preparation freak to succeed. He needs reps to get in sync and learn where people are and need to be in this new offense...how to use the offense to exploit different defensive alignments etc. This is a hard transition...be the same HOF qb you've always been....but do it our way...and ohh..do it while taking less practice reps. Hopefully it gets worked out by late in the season but early on I think it will have a lot of ups and downs.

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Gramz Team Captain

Gramz

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I hope the back problem isn't serious, however if he's still practicing, it must not be too bad.

My biggest fear has always been that he'd play too long and end up with another serious injury.

As much as I've enjoyed watching him over the years, and as much as I'd like nothing more than to see him end his career on top, I really don't want to see struggling.

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dgambill Practice Squad

dgambill

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I think Peyton needs to look at this year like 2012...coming off the neck injury everyone questioning his arm strength etc. Not to bristle too much or put too much pressure on himself but to just get better week after week and let his team help carry the load. He isn't throwing for 40 TDs...if he can throw for around 25-30 and keep the chains moving and the defense on their heels he has done his job.

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Superman Ring of Honor

Superman

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With that defense all Peyton has to do is show up.

 

I was thinking last night, it hasn't been often that a team with Peyton Manning could win a game where the offense played poorly. I think the offense will be fine, and if they get going and the defense holds up, it could be a really good Denver team.

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jvan1973 Ring of Honor

jvan1973

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I was thinking last night, it hasn't been often that a team with Peyton Manning could win a game where the offense played poorly. I think the offense will be fine, and if they get going and the defense holds up, it could be a really good Denver team.

Why in the world did they have him bootleg to the right? I don't think he would have been successful passing to the left while running right early in his career

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shakedownstreet Hall of Famer

shakedownstreet

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Why in the world did they have him bootleg to the right? I don't think he would have been successful passing to the left while running right early in his career

 

i remember him bootlegging to the right and scoring a touchdown twice in one game. probably been about 10 years ago

 

i'd guess that had to be the only time he's ran in two in a single game in his entire career

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