Who's your Top 5?

[ColtsFanMikeC]

Question that popped into my head today. Name the 5 most indispensable @Colts for 2015. Who MUST stay healthy to reach February goals?

— Kevin Bowen (@KBowenColts)

July 21, 2015

My 5

1. Andrew Luck

2. Vontae Davis

3. T.Y. Hilton

4. Robert Mathis

5. Dwayne Allen

 

We were without Mathis and Allen was mostly not near 100% last year and we did just fine.  I hope both are back to full health and stay that way, but we can still win in the playoffs without them, IMO.

 

Granting these are healthy to start (and also my necessary 5 to stay healthy), in the pass happy, QB driven NFL, my indispensable 5-

 

Luck

Mathis

Castonzo

Davis

Hilton

 

Those 5, that order.

 

If Mathis isn't (close to)  his old self to start the season, that is a huge setback. 

 

Mathis is not expected to be back to his old self to start the season, IMO.  It seems to me like Mathis is the only guy who is really pushing that idea, whereas Pags and Grigs both kind of have the 'wait and see' approach with him, which, IMO, means they won't rush him into trying to be like his old self to start the season.  Don't get me wrong, I like Mathis a lot, but coming off a PED suspension and a torn achilles, I am not ready to put a whole lot of faith into him.  I think Newsome will make a big leap this year and Cole is a fine pass-rusher.  Sure, a healthy Mathis would be great, but I think we've already  begun to prepare for life without that.

 

OK Sparky - here goes...

 

1) Last year Mathis would have been said to be the 2nd most irreplaceable Colt and they made it all the way to the AFC Championship Game without him.  

 

2) They can roll coverage to Davis' replacement

 

3) They can slide protection to whoever the new LT would be.

 

4) Plus in both instances they have more depth than in previous years

 

5) Luck goes down and there is no replacing him

 

The point is they will be contenders largely because of the QB play.  Everyone is replaceable to one extent or another.  Not easily replaced and their losses would be felt.

 

I think we are in trouble with an injury to Davis.  He can blanket just about any #1 WR in the league -- nobody else in our secondary is close to being at that level.  If our pass rush isn't great, Vontae can still shut people down -- it worries me quite a bit to think about a secondary of Toler, Butler (who is good in the slot, but not so much on an island), and a group of unproven CBs.

 

All that said, my top 5:

1) Luck -- obvious

2) Davis -- top 2 CB in NFL -- we will struggle mightily facing teams that have passing weapons without him and we have plenty on our schedule (e.g., Denver, Patriots, Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, Atlanta, New Orleans, Miami) -- I think the 50/50 games there are Denver, NE, and PIttsburgh but we can't afford to have our secondary torched and lose another one of those games where we should be the favorites.

3) Costanzo -- Luck's blindside.

4) Art Jones -- Our D is much better with him than without him, especially against the run.  I think we'll see big improvements from Hughes, Chapman is a solid rotational guy, and our overall DL has improved, but Art Jones is our leader there and we need him around.

5) Mewhort -- IMO, our most versatile OL.  Given our injury trouble last year, and the fact Mewhort should improve with more experience, lead me to believe we can use him without worrying at either G spot or at RT should we lose someone along the line for an extended period.

 

On the fringe: D'Qwell Jackson -- he was a tackling/run stuffing machine last year and I don't have all that much confidence in our back-up MLBs.

[jskinnz]

I think we are in trouble with an injury to Davis.  He can blanket just about any #1 WR in the league -- nobody else in our secondary is close to being at that level.  If our pass rush isn't great, Vontae can still shut people down -- it worries me quite a bit to think about a secondary of Toler, Butler (who is good in the slot, but not so much on an island), and a group of unproven CBs.

 

I agree with you. It would be hard to overcome a Davis injury.  But I still contend they can game plan around his loss and minimize the effect.  They cannot game plan around missing Luck.  His loss to me is the only fatal one on its own.

[jskinnz]

We were without Mathis and Allen was mostly not near 100% last year and we did just fine.  I hope both are back to full health and stay that way, but we can still win in the playoffs without them, IMO.

 

 

Mathis is not expected to be back to his old self to start the season, IMO.  It seems to me like Mathis is the only guy who is really pushing that idea, whereas Pags and Grigs both kind of have the 'wait and see' approach with him, which, IMO, means they won't rush him into trying to be like his old self to start the season.  Don't get me wrong, I like Mathis a lot, but coming off a PED suspension and a torn achilles, I am not ready to put a whole lot of faith into him.  I think Newsome will make a big leap this year and Cole is a fine pass-rusher.  Sure, a healthy Mathis would be great, but I think we've already  begun to prepare for life without that.

 

 

I think we are in trouble with an injury to Davis.  He can blanket just about any #1 WR in the league -- nobody else in our secondary is close to being at that level.  If our pass rush isn't great, Vontae can still shut people down -- it worries me quite a bit to think about a secondary of Toler, Butler (who is good in the slot, but not so much on an island), and a group of unproven CBs.

 

All that said, my top 5:

1) Luck -- obvious

2) Davis -- top 2 CB in NFL -- we will struggle mightily facing teams that have passing weapons without him and we have plenty on our schedule (e.g., Denver, Patriots, Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, Atlanta, New Orleans, Miami) -- I think the 50/50 games there are Denver, NE, and PIttsburgh but we can't afford to have our secondary torched and lose another one of those games where we should be the favorites.

3) Costanzo -- Luck's blindside.

4) Art Jones -- Our D is much better with him than without him, especially against the run.  I think we'll see big improvements from Hughes, Chapman is a solid rotational guy, and our overall DL has improved, but Art Jones is our leader there and we need him around.

5) Mewhort -- IMO, our most versatile OL.  Given our injury trouble last year, and the fact Mewhort should improve with more experience, lead me to believe we can use him without worrying at either G spot or at RT should we lose someone along the line for an extended period.

 

On the fringe: D'Qwell Jackson -- he was a tackling/run stuffing machine last year and I don't have all that much confidence in our back-up MLBs.

 

See post above.  I did not edit it correctly to where it shows as quoted.

[ColtsBlueFL]

We were without Mathis and Allen was mostly not near 100% last year and we did just fine.  I hope both are back to full health and stay that way, but we can still win in the playoffs without them, IMO.

 

 

Mathis is not expected to be back to his old self to start the season, IMO.  It seems to me like Mathis is the only guy who is really pushing that idea, whereas Pags and Grigs both kind of have the 'wait and see' approach with him, which, IMO, means they won't rush him into trying to be like his old self to start the season.  Don't get me wrong, I like Mathis a lot, but coming off a PED suspension and a torn achilles, I am not ready to put a whole lot of faith into him.  I think Newsome will make a big leap this year and Cole is a fine pass-rusher.  Sure, a healthy Mathis would be great, but I think we've already  begun to prepare for life without that.

 

{snipped some good stuff}

 

If Mathis is not himself, it is paramount Cole or Newsome step up.  We got sacks by smoke and mirrors at times last year. We need QB pressure with less blitzing.

 

 

Mu rational, this is QB / Pass league.  1st player is a QB.  Next is a verified QB disrupter.  3rd is an elite QB blindside protector, 4th a top CB to disrupt a QB's target. 5th a top QB target.  Having good/great players at other positions is encouraged.  :-)

[ColtsFanMikeC]

I think we are in trouble with an injury to Davis.  He can blanket just about any #1 WR in the league -- nobody else in our secondary is close to being at that level.  If our pass rush isn't great, Vontae can still shut people down -- it worries me quite a bit to think about a secondary of Toler, Butler (who is good in the slot, but not so much on an island), and a group of unproven CBs.

 

I agree with you. It would be hard to overcome a Davis injury.  But I still contend they can game plan around his loss and minimize the effect.  They cannot game plan around missing Luck.  His loss to me is the only fatal one on its own.

 

If our offense stays healthy, we should have enough horsepower to win shootouts vs. a lot of teams.  That said, shootouts can always go either way.  You're right, Luck would be much worse of a loss than anyone on our team, but I don't trust our secondary vs. a healthy Peyton with all his weapons or many other teams, especially the well-balanced ones like NE and Pitts.  To game plan against Big Ben or Brady in terms of taking away WR's without Vontae, we will almost surely have to expose ourself in the run game.  I just don't like our odds of going far in the playoffs without Vontae.

[TKnight24]

We were without Mathis and Allen was mostly not near 100% last year and we did just fine. I hope both are back to full health and stay that way, but we can still win in the playoffs without them, IMO.

Mathis is not expected to be back to his old self to start the season, IMO. It seems to me like Mathis is the only guy who is really pushing that idea, whereas Pags and Grigs both kind of have the 'wait and see' approach with him, which, IMO, means they won't rush him into trying to be like his old self to start the season. Don't get me wrong, I like Mathis a lot, but coming off a PED suspension and a torn achilles, I am not ready to put a whole lot of faith into him. I think Newsome will make a big leap this year and Cole is a fine pass-rusher. Sure, a healthy Mathis would be great, but I think we've already begun to prepare for life without that.

I think we are in trouble with an injury to Davis. He can blanket just about any #1 WR in the league -- nobody else in our secondary is close to being at that level. If our pass rush isn't great, Vontae can still shut people down -- it worries me quite a bit to think about a secondary of Toler, Butler (who is good in the slot, but not so much on an island), and a group of unproven CBs.

All that said, my top 5:

1) Luck -- obvious

2) Davis -- top 2 CB in NFL -- we will struggle mightily facing teams that have passing weapons without him and we have plenty on our schedule (e.g., Denver, Patriots, Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, Atlanta, New Orleans, Miami) -- I think the 50/50 games there are Denver, NE, and PIttsburgh but we can't afford to have our secondary torched and lose another one of those games where we should be the favorites.

3) Costanzo -- Luck's blindside.

4) Art Jones -- Our D is much better with him than without him, especially against the run. I think we'll see big improvements from Hughes, Chapman is a solid rotational guy, and our overall DL has improved, but Art Jones is our leader there and we need him around.

5) Mewhort -- IMO, our most versatile OL. Given our injury trouble last year, and the fact Mewhort should improve with more experience, lead me to believe we can use him without worrying at either G spot or at RT should we lose someone along the line for an extended period.

On the fringe: D'Qwell Jackson -- he was a tackling/run stuffing machine last year and I don't have all that much confidence in our back-up MLBs.

Having a healthy Mathis makes the pass rush and run defense better

Having a 2 headed TE makes the offense almost unstoppable with the WR corps we have this year

That's why I listed those 2

[JH8788]

OK Sparky - here goes...

 

1) Last year Mathis would have been said to be the 2nd most irreplaceable Colt and they made it all the way to the AFC Championship Game without him.  

 

2) They can roll coverage to Davis' replacement

 

3) They can slide protection to whoever the new LT would be.

 

4) Plus in both instances they have more depth than in previous years

 

5) Luck goes down and there is no replacing him

 

The point is they will be contenders largely because of the QB play.  Everyone is replaceable to one extent or another.  Not easily replaced and their losses would be felt.

First off nobody said anything about Mathis so don't know why you felt the need to mention him. You must've forgotten what went down in the Steelers game after Vontae left the game. Ben straight clowned us & Toler got ate alive by Brown when he shadowed him the reminder of the game so that disqualifies that "roll coverage to Davis' replacement" you made. If for 1 sec you would feel comfortable with Toler on the opposing team's #1 WR then you out your mind to say the least. WITH Castonzo Andrew is on suicide watch at times so that slide the protection argument also goes out the window. Teams would really tee off on him if he went down.

 

Obviously The QB is far & away the best & most important to the teams' success, but to say "everyone is replaceable to 1 extent or another" is ridiculous. Take JJ Watt of the Houston defense & watch what happens. We've seen what happens to NE when Gronk is out of the lineup. They were waxed by Baltimore & Denver in the 12 & 13 AFCC. Or how bout when Julio Jones was lost for the season 2 years ago, Falcons end up 4-12.

 

Bottom line is that the QB isn't the only irreplaceable player on a team, especially ours.

[Coltfreak]

If our offense stays healthy, we should have enough horsepower to win shootouts vs. a lot of teams.  That said, shootouts can always go either way.  You're right, Luck would be much worse of a loss than anyone on our team, but I don't trust our secondary vs. a healthy Peyton with all his weapons or many other teams, especially the well-balanced ones like NE and Pitts.  To game plan against Big Ben or Brady in terms of taking away WR's without Vontae, we will almost surely have to expose ourself in the run game.  I just don't like our odds of going far in the playoffs without Vontae.

Just curious who are all of Peyton's weapons?  They are a much less powerful passing team than he has had since he has been in Denver. They will be run happy.  WHich is not a bad thing.  Just dont think Peyton can beat us with his arm

[jskinnz]

First off nobody said anything about Mathis so don't know why you felt the need to mention him. You must've forgotten what went down in the Steelers game after Vontae left the game. Ben straight clowned us & Toler got ate alive by Brown when he shadowed him the reminder of the game so that disqualifies that "roll coverage to Davis' replacement" you made. If for 1 sec you would feel comfortable with Toler on the opposing team's #1 WR then you out your mind to say the least. WITH Castonzo Andrew is on suicide watch at times so that slide the protection argument also goes out the window. Teams would really tee off on him if he went down.

 

Obviously The QB is far & away the best & most important to the teams' success, but to say "everyone is replaceable to 1 extent or another" is ridiculous. Take JJ Watt of the Houston defense & watch what happens. We've seen what happens to NE when Gronk is out of the lineup. They were waxed by Baltimore & Denver in the 12 & 13 AFCC. Or how bout when Julio Jones was lost for the season 2 years ago, Falcons end up 4-12.

 

Bottom line is that the QB isn't the only irreplaceable player on a team, especially ours.

 

Comprehend this - the only truly fatal loss for the Colts would be Luck.

 

My point on Mathis is simply everyone would have rated him in 2014 as the most irreplaceable player after Luck and yet they still made it to the AFCCG.  Follow here - the found schematic ways to overcome his loss - that logic applies to the point I am making.

 

I did not forget about the Steelers game - I don't ever forget about any Colts game.  The point is the Davis was hurt in game so they did not have a chance to game plan around him not being there.  The one game they did - Cleveland, they got Gordy plenty of help.  Now before you blow a gasket, I recognize there is a huge gap between Big Ben and the Steelers and a Hoyer led Cleveland offense but that is evidence from last year.  

 

If AC went down, there are very clearly things they could do to help the line.  Slide protection is one - help with backs an TE with chipping the DE or OLB.  I am not suggesting any of this would be easy and they would clearly be degraded but it is my humble opinion that those losses could be overcome because of how special Luck is.  

 

Thank you for the concern but I am not out of my mind as you suggest.  

[Nrcheek16]

In order for the Colts to get where we want them to...

 

1) Luck

2) Anthony Costanzo ... I think our offense would be in big big trouble if the big guy went down

3) Vontae

4) Coby Fleener - mismatch problem inside.. especially with dorsett and t.y. stretching the defense

5) A healthy Art Jones. . Defense starts up front, we never got to see what a full year of beef up front can do for the defense

[throwing BBZ]

Question that popped into my head today. Name the 5 most indispensable @Colts for 2015. Who MUST stay healthy to reach February goals?

— Kevin Bowen (@KBowenColts)

July 21, 2015

My 5

1. Andrew Luck

2. Vontae Davis

3. T.Y. Hilton

4. Robert Mathis

5. Dwayne Allen

 

 We don`t have 5 indispensable players.

 Luck

Vontae

A Jones

 

[Colts_Fan12]

Luck- obviously

Davis- best player on the D and our shut down corner

Castanzo- if out our line becomes worthless

Mathis- our pass rush sucks without him

Hilton- best WR and one of licks fav targets

[aaron11]

We were without Mathis and Allen was mostly not near 100% last year and we did just fine.  I hope both are back to full health and stay that way, but we can still win in the playoffs without them, IMO.

 

i guess you can say we were "fine", but we didnt reach february without them like the OP was asking.  i dont see us winning it all without either mathis having a big year or some other pass rusher getting 10+ sacks and a few in the playoffs as well

[Track Guy]

1. Luck

2a. Davis

2b. Costanzo

 

After that it's really pretty tough to say.

[RealityIsLuck]

1. Luck

2. Davis

3. Costonzo

4. Jones

5. Adams

 

Our best players at our weakest positions (OL, DL, DB) must stay healthy for us to be a complete team and not break down.

 

If we loose a guy like Hilton we still have Johnson, Moncrief, Dorsett, Carter and the TEs. 

If we loose a guy like Mathis we still have Cole, Newsome, Walden, Werner

[RockThatBlue]

Explain how the likes of Vontae & Castonzo can be replaced. Shutdown CBs & pro bowl caliber LTs don't grow on trees.

Very true. Just look how bad our defense looked when Vontae was hurt. He's definitely not replaceable.

[JH8788]

Comprehend this - the only truly fatal loss for the Colts would be Luck.

 

My point on Mathis is simply everyone would have rated him in 2014 as the most irreplaceable player after Luck and yet they still made it to the AFCCG.  Follow here - the found schematic ways to overcome his loss - that logic applies to the point I am making.

 

I did not forget about the Steelers game - I don't ever forget about any Colts game.  The point is the Davis was hurt in game so they did not have a chance to game plan around him not being there.  The one game they did - Cleveland, they got Gordy plenty of help.  Now before you blow a gasket, I recognize there is a huge gap between Big Ben and the Steelers and a Hoyer led Cleveland offense but that is evidence from last year.  

 

If AC went down, there are very clearly things they could do to help the line.  Slide protection is one - help with backs an TE with chipping the DE or OLB.  I am not suggesting any of this would be easy and they would clearly be degraded but it is my humble opinion that those losses could be overcome because of how special Luck is.  

 

Thank you for the concern but I am not out of my mind as you suggest.  

Funny you mention Gordy. If I remember correctly, he too got the business in the Steelers game. & you just hit it right on the money, Ben's offense has numerous weapons after Brown in Bell, Miller, Bryant, & Wheaton. When we played the Browns we just had to worry about Gordon so that's not a good comparison right there.

 

Bottom line is that even w/o Vontae, there was absolutely no excuse for us to give up 320 yds passing(522 overall) & 4 TDs(6 overall) by halftime. Not to mention there was a time in the game we were down as many as 25 pts. We were sorry on defense that day & that validated Vontae's importance to this team outside of Andrew. If you think we can win it all w/o him, you're sadly mistaken. 

 

Like I said before, with AC, Andrew is on suicide watch at times & we keep Dwayne in to block a lot more than we should be because of our line. AC goes down, our SB dreams take a massive hit because Andrew is probably going down with him.

 

Yes we did a solid job in making up for Mathis' absence, but in the bigger games against the better QBs, we had trouble to say the least getting after the passer & maybe cost us an extra win or 2.

 

I'm well aware of how special our QB is, but great QBs can't cover up key injuries to the team, especially in January.

[JH8788]

Very true. Just look how bad our defense looked when Vontae was hurt. He's definitely not replaceable.

Exactly. Ben had a party in our secondary once he went down. I by no means do I want to see our o line minus AC.