Phillip Rivers-Would you trade him?

[Colts_Fan12]

I don't think Ken Whisenhunt agrees with you about the Titans. I think he believes they can make the playoffs if they get a good QB. And sitting at #2, having to choose between Mariota -- who I don't think is ready -- and Rivers, I think he'd go with Rivers for the short term benefits.

Between the high coaching turnover (7 new jobs in 2015, when I thought there'd be 3 or 4) and the shorter rookie contracts, if they drafted Mariota and he didn't work out, Whisenhunt wouldn't get a second shot at a young QB. They want to have a vet, behind whom Mettenberger can sit and develop and learn, and then they can hand it off to him by 2017 before he hits free agency.

That way, Whisenhunt's job is safe® in the short term, and he might have the right guy in the long term. Mettenberger was considered a 2nd round talent who dropped due to injury, weight concerns, some old legal issues, and a failed drug test at the Combine. He has a big arm and played in a pro style system in college.

I'm honestly just talking about TB cause Blue Shoe said TB should trade for him straight up that's my only argument really I and I'd agree that any of the trades would make sense but I'm just saying its gonna cost more then just Rivers alone for TB or Tenn IMO

[Colts_Fan12]

If you're going to use #1 on Winston or Mariota, yeah. At least in the short term.

not TB IMO they would still be building and pretty much waste the rest of Rivers career

[Superman]

People sometimes forget how highly NFL teams value draft picks.

 

Yeah, I did. It would make more sense for the Titans to trade down and accumulate a bunch of picks.

[Colts_Fan12]

Yeah, I did. It would make more sense for the Titans to trade down and accumulate a bunch of picks.

that's what I think the titans should do plus they may have a high pick next year and even better QB prospects could enter

[Superman]

that's what I think the titans should do plus they may have a high pick next year and even better QB prospects could enter

 

I think any QB prospects coming out the next two years will be long term developmental prospects -- like Mariota. That's why I understand trying to get a proven vet.

 

I was only saying that I think Rivers would be better for the Titans than Mariota (or Winston), particularly in the short term. But the value of the pick isn't only limited to the short term value of the best QBs on the board. If they could get the Browns two firsts, plus extra draft picks, they'd be in pretty good shape.

[BlueShoe]

like Supe said I'd be ok if TB or Tenn were close to contending but neither is so just take the young talented player and continue to build around him

Also Luck was once a prospect so was Peyton and Brady.

 

Both Peyton and Luck were as close to cannot miss as possible. Everyone knew it too.

 

Brady was a prospect.

 

In today's NFL teams can go from the cellar to first in a season, especially in that division.

[Colts_Fan12]

I think any QB prospects coming out the next two years will be long term developmental prospects -- like Mariota. That's why I understand trying to get a proven vet.

I was only saying that I think Rivers would be better for the Titans than Mariota (or Winston), particularly in the short term. But the value of the pick isn't only limited to the short term value of the best QBs on the board. If they could get the Browns two firsts, plus extra draft picks, they'd be in pretty good shape.

I also don't see Mariota as being that great so I'd trade out too cause I'm pretty sure TB is taking Winston. I think there will be some good QB prospects I think even Cook from MSU will be pretty good

[BlueShoe]

Is Winston off your board entirely?

 

If I were a GM and had a board then yes, he would be off of my board.

[BlueShoe]

Chargers aren't even a contender with Rivers.

 

False.

[BlueShoe]

I also don't see Mariota as being that great so I'd trade out too cause I'm pretty sure TB is taking Winston. I think there will be some good QB prospects I think even Cook from MSU will be pretty good

 

I believe that Mariota is the best QB in this draft. He is not a sure hit, but I believe he is this years best bet.

 

Winston will probably go to the Bucs though. 

[Superman]

If I were a GM and had a board then yes, he would be off of my board.

 

Then isn't that more than football? You're telling me you wouldn't trade Jameis Winston at all, and it's just football? I don't think so.

[BlueShoe]

not TB IMO they would still be building and pretty much waste the rest of Rivers career

 

I disagree. The Bucs have enough talent that with Rivers they can win some games. Add a few more pieces and they could become contenders. 

 

Plus they have a really good coach.

[Superman]

I also don't see Mariota as being that great so I'd trade out too cause I'm pretty sure TB is taking Winston. I think there will be some good QB prospects I think even Cook from MSU will be pretty good

 

Put it this way, I think the next couple of drafts will be more like 2011 at the QB position, minus Cam Newton. So if the Titans want to hold out for another Jake Locker / Christian Ponder / Blaine Gabbert kind of offering, then go right ahead. But I think anything other than getting a potential starter in 2015 makes Whisenhunt's seat hot. 

[BlueShoe]

Then isn't that more than football? You're telling me you wouldn't trade Jameis Winston at all, and it's just football? I don't think so.

 

Trade Winston?

 

Not sure what you mean. 

 

I would not draft him because I do not believe he will be a good NFL quarterback. I believe he is over-hyped.

 

I would certainly draft Mariota though.

[Colts_Fan12]

Put it this way, I think the next couple of drafts will be more like 2011 at the QB position, minus Cam Newton. So if the Titans want to hold out for another Jake Locker / Christian Ponder / Blaine Gabbert kind of offering, then go right ahead. But I think anything other than getting a potential starter in 2015 makes Whisenhunt's seat hot.

guess we have to wait til after this year CF season

[BlueShoe]

Put it this way, I think the next couple of drafts will be more like 2011 at the QB position, minus Cam Newton. So if the Titans want to hold out for another Jake Locker / Christian Ponder / Blaine Gabbert kind of offering, then go right ahead. But I think anything other than getting a potential starter in 2015 makes Whisenhunt's seat hot. 

 

If I were running the Titans draft room then I would take Mariota without blinking.

[Superman]

Plus they have a really good coach.

 

Oh, man. If we shared a front office -- one of us was GM, and the other was VP of Football Ops -- we wouldn't get anything done. Not coaches, not draft board, not roster management... wow.

 

I know Lovie is super well respected and everything, but I think the results undermine his standing.

[Superman]

Trade Winston?

 

Not sure what you mean. 

 

I would not draft him because I do not believe he will be a good NFL quarterback. I believe he is over-hyped.

 

I would certainly draft Mariota though.

 

Yeah, I meant draft.

 

Would you take him in the second round? Third? At all?

 

Consensus isn't always right, but most everyone believes Winston has the physical tools and ability to be a good NFL QB. The question is whether he's going to mess up his opportunity.

[BlueShoe]

Oh, man. If we shared a front office -- one of us was GM, and the other was VP of Football Ops -- we wouldn't get anything done. Not coaches, not draft board, not roster management... wow.

 

I know Lovie is super well respected and everything, but I think the results undermine his standing.

 

We would agree on a lot more then you think. You just choose to point out what we do not agree on. 

[BlueShoe]

Yeah, I meant draft.

 

Would you take him in the second round? Third? At all?

 

Consensus isn't always right, but most everyone believes Winston has the physical tools and ability to be a good NFL QB. The question is whether he's going to mess up his opportunity.

 

I would not draft him at all, and the further he fell it would only reinforce my position.

[Superman]

If I were running the Titans draft room then I would take Mariota without blinking.

 

Yeah, a lot of people are feeling that way lately. I don't think that highly of Mariota. I think he's a backup for at least a year, and then I think the offense has to be very tailored to his abilities.

 

There's no question he "gets it," and he has a fantastic work ethic, and everyone will love him. I'm not sure he can play QB in the NFL at that high of a level. He doesn't have the mechanical issues of RG3 or Kaepernick, and he's not entirely a one-read QB, but he doesn't have the polish and arm talent of Russell Wilson. He has a slight frame, and a lot of his progression based throws are late. I just think he needs a lot of work and won't be ready Day 1, unless he goes to the Eagles.

 

If he weren't a QB, he wouldn't be considered the #2 player in the draft. I like him, I'd draft him, maybe even at #2, but I wouldn't expect him to make my team better right away.

[Superman]

We would agree on a lot more then you think. You just choose to point out what we do not agree on. 

 

Maybe we like the same movies... ;)

 

Fair enough. I know I'm being dramatic.

[Superman]

I would not draft him at all, and the further he fell it would only reinforce my position.

 

See, that's not a football-based decision. If Bill Polian and Tony Dungy were running the Bucs, they wouldn't take Winston, either. But both of them have said that they think he'll be a good pro QB.

 

I think Dorial Green-Beckham is going to be a pretty good player. I wouldn't draft him. At all. That's not a football-based decision.

[aaron11]

That's an interesting view.    And you may indeed be right.

 

By coincidence I was watching one of those ESPN "insider" shows a few weeks back when this story/rumor first broke...  and Polian was saying Tennessee was going to have to give up much more than just the #2 to get Rivers.     

 

His view was the #2 overall pick and another 1st round pick....   and maybe more....

 

I confess I was surprised to hear that.    I wasn't sure if he was spot-on,  or if he's gone all Gil Brandt on us?   (Senile)

i think dustin is right this time and not polian.  at least in the sense that the titans would not be willing to give up much more than that pick becasue they could use it themselves and get a qb anyway.

 

rivers is good, but too old to trade the farm for.  one high draft pick seems about right to me.  rivers is likely better than any qb in this class but his age hurts the trade value

[BlueShoe]

Yeah, a lot of people are feeling that way lately. I don't think that highly of Mariota. I think he's a backup for at least a year, and then I think the offense has to be very tailored to his abilities.

 

There's no question he "gets it," and he has a fantastic work ethic, and everyone will love him. I'm not sure he can play QB in the NFL at that high of a level. He doesn't have the mechanical issues of RG3 or Kaepernick, and he's not entirely a one-read QB, but he doesn't have the polish and arm talent of Russell Wilson. He has a slight frame, and a lot of his progression based throws are late. I just think he needs a lot of work and won't be ready Day 1, unless he goes to the Eagles.

 

If he weren't a QB, he wouldn't be considered the #2 player in the draft. I like him, I'd draft him, maybe even at #2, but I wouldn't expect him to make my team better right away.

 

Winston and Mariota remind me of Smith and Rodgers.

 

It is like history is repeating itself right in front of my eyes.

 

The wrong one will be taken #1 overall, and the other one will play football in January.

 

If Tennessee does make (what I believe) is the right choice then the AFC South will be the toughest division in football over the next decade. 

 

Luck, Bortles, and Mariota; all in the same division.

[BlueShoe]

See, that's not a football-based decision. 

 

I am not sure how much clearer I can be. I do not believe Winston is going to be a good QB. If he fell then other teams must feel the same way too. 

 

You're not on your game today brother. 

[Superman]

I am not sure how much clearer I can be. I do not believe Winston is going to be a good QB. If he fell then other teams must feel the same way too. 

 

You're not on your game today brother. 

 

That's amazing to me. I was assuming you didn't like Winston because of the off the field stuff. 

 

I think general consensus is that he has the ability to be a good QB.

[Superman]

Winston and Mariota remind me of Smith and Rodgers.

 

It is like history is repeating itself right in front of my eyes.

 

The wrong one will be taken #1 overall, and the other one will play football in January.

 

If Tennessee does make (what I believe) is the right choice then the AFC South will be the toughest division in football over the next decade. 

 

Luck, Bortles, and Mariota; all in the same division.

 

Mariota reminds me of Smith, though. Spread QB, in a potent college system, groomed by an offensive specialist.

[BlueShoe]

That's amazing to me. I was assuming you didn't like Winston because of the off the field stuff. 

 

I think general consensus is that he has the ability to be a good QB.

 

Why is that amazing? He threw 18 picks vs 25 touchdowns last year. In college. 

 

It's about football to me.

 

For the record, I wouldn't take him for his other issues either. I think he is putting on a show right now and I believe he is a fake. But looking at it from a football only perspective, he might be the most over-hyped QB of all time. 

 

For the life of me, I cannot understand what "greatness" people see in him. 

 

I would not draft him.

[BlueShoe]

Mariota reminds me of Smith, though. Spread QB, in a potent college system, groomed by an offensive specialist.

 

Not to me. Mariota played in a spread system, but quarterbacks play in the system they are in. I haven't seen any reason why Mariota would struggle in a Pro style offense. 

 

I believe Mariota will be an outstanding quarterback in the NFL. 

[Dustin]

If you want a QB who struggles to reach 10 wins, they should just give up a mid-rounder for Cutler.

[Superman]

Why is that amazing? He threw 18 picks vs 25 touchdowns last year. In college. 

 

It's about football to me.

 

For the record, I wouldn't take him for his other issues either. I think he is putting on a show right now and I believe he is a fake. But looking at it from a football only perspective, he might be the most over-hyped QB of all time. 

 

For the life of me, I cannot understand what "greatness" people see in him. 

 

I would not draft him.

 

Not to me. Mariota played in a spread system, but quarterbacks play in the system they are in. I haven't seen any reason why Mariota would struggle in a Pro style offense. 

 

I believe Mariota will be an outstanding quarterback in the NFL. 

 

Winston isn't perfect, and I never called him great either, but he's a good QB prospect, setting aside the off the field stuff. He might be overhyped, but that doesn't mean he won't be good. Some would argue Luck was overhyped (not comparing Winston to Luck in any way). I think the only reason to take Winston off the board entirely is if you don't like his off the field stuff and don't believe he'll make the most of his talent.

 

I gave two reasons earlier why Mariota will struggle in a pro style offense. He's late on his progression based throws (not always, but enough for me to bring it up), and his arm talent isn't pro ready (he doesn't deliver the ball accurately to all areas of the field, nor does he have the zip to all areas of the field). This all goes back to mechanics and footwork, which aren't emphasized for college QBs anymore, especially in spread offenses. He's better in the pocket than he gets credit for, but he needs work there also.

 

If he sits for a year or two and gets better -- like Aaron Rodgers did; he wasn't a surefire prospect coming out, and had some arm strength and accuracy issues also -- he'll be good. I wouldn't put him out there Year 1.

[BlueShoe]

Winston isn't perfect, and I never called him great either, but he's a good QB prospect, setting aside the off the field stuff. He might be overhyped, but that doesn't mean he won't be good. Some would argue Luck was overhyped (not comparing Winston to Luck in any way). I think the only reason to take Winston off the board entirely is if you don't like his off the field stuff and don't believe he'll make the most of his talent.

That is your opinion. I have my own opinion. I don't believe Winston's will be a good NFL quarterback. Along with not having the talent, I believe he is also a ticking time bomb, and the team that drafts him will receive the full explosive impact. His skill-set is inferior to Mariota in every aspect.

 

I gave two reasons earlier why Mariota will struggle in a pro style offense. He's late on his progression based throws (not always, but enough for me to bring it up), and his arm talent isn't pro ready (he doesn't deliver the ball accurately to all areas of the field, nor does he have the zip to all areas of the field). This all goes back to mechanics and footwork, which aren't emphasized for college QBs anymore, especially in spread offenses. He's better in the pocket than he gets credit for, but he needs work there also.

You gave reasons why you "think" Mariota will struggle in the NFL, but I disagree with you. I disagree with pretty much everything you have to say about Mariota.

 

If he sits for a year or two and gets better -- like Aaron Rodgers did; he wasn't a surefire prospect coming out, and had some arm strength and accuracy issues also -- he'll be good. I wouldn't put him out there Year 1.

Mariota does not need to sit for a year. It never hurts for a player to get a year under his belt, but I don't see a mental weakness in Mariota that requires that type of treatment. Mariota is a lot like Eli Manning with his demeanor. Leaders come in all different types of personalities and can easily be mistaken. 

 

I have not recently started saying Mariota is the best QB in this draft. I have been saying that for months. 

 

Aaron Rodgers did not need to sit to be a great NFL QB. People often assume that is why he played so well when he got his chance. I will concede that it put a chip on his shoulder and severely ticked him off. How could it not? And how could we blame him? Did that give him extra motivation? I am sure it did. I always thought Aaron Rodgers was the best quarterback in his draft class. I even mocked him to go number 1, because I thought the 49ers were fooling the media. The media got nearly every fan believing that Alex Smith was the better QB, and looking back, its clear that it was a trickle down effect from the 49ers convincing the media. Rodgers was clearly the better QB in my eyes, and none of it made sense to me. But that happens in football.

 

Sometimes situations need to be looked at from several different angles. Its not always black and white. Often times, there are several right answers and several wrong answers, and none of us are always right. Just because I was right about Rodgers then, does it make me right about Mariota now.  The two situations are different instances. But there are some eerily similar things happening. 

 

I would not go anywhere near Winston, but I would happily draft Mariota. It is not even close in my eyes. Mariota destroys Winston in all the measurables, character, and determination.

 

At this point the only thing that makes sense is that someone in the Bucs organization leaked to the media they will draft Winston, and the media jumped all over it, claiming Winston the best QB in this draft. There is no other reasonable reason to believe Winston will or should be drafted before Mariota. 

[Superman]

That is your opinion. I have my own opinion. I don't believe Winston's will be a good NFL quarterback. Along with not having the talent, I believe he is also a ticking time bomb, and the team that drafts him will receive the full explosive impact. His skill-set is inferior to Mariota in every aspect.

 

No it's not, but as you said, we have different opinions.

 

You gave reasons why you "think" Mariota will struggle in the NFL, but I disagree with you. I disagree with pretty much everything you have to say about Mariota.

 

Feel free to support your opinion. But it's not just me that feels that way about Mariota.

 

From NFL.com:

• Needs to improve resetting feet when maneuvering pocket to improve accuracy and power.
• Pocket feel is very average. Stepped into sacks he had no business taking.
• Slow to make anticipatory throws and can improve patience in allowing combo routes to mature rather than rushing the read.
• Drive accuracy needs work. When cutting it loose, ball tends to sail on him a bit. Arm strength is adequate but inconsistent to field side. Needs to bring hips through throws to increase zip into tight windows in NFL.

From ESPN.com:

• has struggled with his efficiency on throws that require anticipation (throwing to a spot before receiver comes out of his break, throwing receiver to a soft spot in zone coverage, etc.)

From CBS.com:

• Overly reliant on his first read, and occasionally commits the cardinal sin of throwing late across his body.
• Accuracy can be an issue, as Mariota misses too many open receivers, including high-percentage underneath passes.

People often assume that is why he played so well when he got his chance. ... I always thought Aaron Rodgers was the best quarterback in his draft class.

 

Yeah, I'm not assuming anything. The scouting on Rodgers pointed out several things that he'd need to work on in the pros, including making reads, progression based passing, pocket presence, throwing mechanics and arm strength. I'm not saying that he needed to sit for three years; I'm saying sitting allowed him to work on those things, and he was better when he finally got on the field than he would have been if he had started right away. I don't think it's strange at all to say that he got better after three years.

 

And that's cool that you thought Rodgers was the best QB in his class. There really was no consensus at the time, nor was it an issue of the 49ers convincing the media that Smith was better. Nick Saban preferred Alex Smith. It really was considered a 50/50 proposition. He was labeled "just another Jeff Tedford QB." Long story short, the Aaron Rodgers of today is not what most people expected in 2004.

 

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/203116571.html

http://gnb.247sports.com/Bolt/Saban-Preferred-Alex-Smith-Over-Aaron-Rodgers-33030680

 

I would not go anywhere near Winston, but I would happily draft Mariota. It is not even close in my eyes. Mariota destroys Winston in all the measurables, character, and determination.

 

At this point the only thing that makes sense is that someone in the Bucs organization leaked to the media they will draft Winston, and the media jumped all over it, claiming Winston the best QB in this draft. There is no other reasonable reason to believe Winston will or should be drafted before Mariota.

 

It's just hard to separate your opinion of Winston as a person from your evaluation of him as a football player, especially in comparison with Mariota. Evaluating the two of them on the field only, this separation that you claim is there isn't seen by practically anyone who evaluates college players. I'm sure there are plenty of people who prefer Mariota on a strict football basis, and that's fine. But claiming that the only reason anyone likes Winston better is because of groupthink or whatever is unreasonable. People -- including me -- think Winston is better on a strict football basis because they've watched and evaluated both of them, and come to an opinion.

 

If it were up to me, however, I think I'd choose Mariota, because I trust him to work his butt off, do the right things, and earn the respect of his teammates, his coaches, and the fans. I can't say the same about Winston. But I wouldn't start Mariota right away unless my coaching staff has made some significant adjustments to the offense to feature his skill-set, while he works on footwork and mechanics. And I'd prefer to have him behind a vet for a year.

 

By the way, I'm just talking about what I think. I don't begrudge a different opinion or viewpoint, but it would be cool if saying "Mariota has some pro stuff to work on" was met with more than just "that's what you think." 

[Gavin]

Chargers aren't even a contender with Rivers.

Well the Chargers still have had to deal with a certain #18 QB the last few years, I mean otherwise the Chargers wouldn't have much competition unless you count KC and that's contigent on what the defense does much more then there QB, Chargers still went 9-7 this year losing to Denver twice

[BlueShoe]

No it's not, but as you said, we have different opinions.

 

 

Feel free to support your opinion. But it's not just me that feels that way about Mariota.

 

From NFL.com:

• Needs to improve resetting feet when maneuvering pocket to improve accuracy and power.
• Pocket feel is very average. Stepped into sacks he had no business taking.
• Slow to make anticipatory throws and can improve patience in allowing combo routes to mature rather than rushing the read.
• Drive accuracy needs work. When cutting it loose, ball tends to sail on him a bit. Arm strength is adequate but inconsistent to field side. Needs to bring hips through throws to increase zip into tight windows in NFL.

From ESPN.com:

• has struggled with his efficiency on throws that require anticipation (throwing to a spot before receiver comes out of his break, throwing receiver to a soft spot in zone coverage, etc.)

From CBS.com:

• Overly reliant on his first read, and occasionally commits the cardinal sin of throwing late across his body.
• Accuracy can be an issue, as Mariota misses too many open receivers, including high-percentage underneath passes.

 

Yeah, I'm not assuming anything. The scouting on Rodgers pointed out several things that he'd need to work on in the pros, including making reads, progression based passing, pocket presence, throwing mechanics and arm strength. I'm not saying that he needed to sit for three years; I'm saying sitting allowed him to work on those things, and he was better when he finally got on the field than he would have been if he had started right away. I don't think it's strange at all to say that he got better after three years.

 

And that's cool that you thought Rodgers was the best QB in his class. There really was no consensus at the time, nor was it an issue of the 49ers convincing the media that Smith was better. Nick Saban preferred Alex Smith. It really was considered a 50/50 proposition. He was labeled "just another Jeff Tedford QB." Long story short, the Aaron Rodgers of today is not what most people expected in 2004.

 

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/203116571.html

http://gnb.247sports.com/Bolt/Saban-Preferred-Alex-Smith-Over-Aaron-Rodgers-33030680

 

 

It's just hard to separate your opinion of Winston as a person from your evaluation of him as a football player, especially in comparison with Mariota. Evaluating the two of them on the field only, this separation that you claim is there isn't seen by practically anyone who evaluates college players. I'm sure there are plenty of people who prefer Mariota on a strict football basis, and that's fine. But claiming that the only reason anyone likes Winston better is because of groupthink or whatever is unreasonable. People -- including me -- think Winston is better on a strict football basis because they've watched and evaluated both of them, and come to an opinion.

 

If it were up to me, however, I think I'd choose Mariota, because I trust him to work his butt off, do the right things, and earn the respect of his teammates, his coaches, and the fans. I can't say the same about Winston. But I wouldn't start Mariota right away unless my coaching staff has made some significant adjustments to the offense to feature his skill-set, while he works on footwork and mechanics. And I'd prefer to have him behind a vet for a year.

 

By the way, I'm just talking about what I think. I don't begrudge a different opinion or viewpoint, but it would be cool if saying "Mariota has some pro stuff to work on" was met with more than just "that's what you think." 

 

Don't fool yourself into believing groupthink is not in play here with some people who share your opinion, because it certainly is. In fact, the only opinion that cannot be classified as groupthink is mine. Because as you said, there are a lot of people saying the same thing, and singing the same song you are. Not many saying the same thing I am though. If that makes me wrong in your book then so be it. I can't help the flock from diving into a bed of Lions, but I sure and hell am not going with them. 

 

Every quarterback has weaknesses they need to work on. Even the greats can't escape that. The problem is when these weaknesses are magnified and exaggerated as reasons a player should not be drafted high, or should sit a year or two. 

 

Some of the issues people say Mariota needs to work on is a joke at best. Mariota is a very athletic young man. I doubt he will have issues with 3, 5, or 7 step drops. Hell, he probably already has it mastered by now. He is a freak athlete. Mariota's job in college was to run the system that was in place. It wasn't his job to reinvent the wheel. He owned his position and mastered it. There is no reason to believe he will not do the same under center. 

 

The knock on Mariota's arm strength is a freaking joke. Do they just not have anything better to write about or do they just make stuff up? They said the same thing about Luck too, and at his pro day they even asked Luck to throw a deep ball. He tossed it into the wind 75 yards in the air for the sheep. There is not a problem with Mariota's arm strength just as there was not any problems with Luck's arm. Is there room for improvement? Absolutely. He can be coached up and get stronger. But right now, as of today, he has all the arm strength he needs to play at a very high level in the NFL. 

 

CBS wrote that he was overly reliant on his first read. What kind of crap is that? Most of the plays Oregon runs are first read throws. You want to know who else makes a living off his first read? Tom Brady. So let me get this straight. Some people want to knock Mariota for running a spread offense (where the first read is expected to be thrown most of the time) yet also knock him for throwing to his first read? Freaking ridiculous!

 

CBS also says he has issues with accuracy. Are you kidding me with this crap? Mariota completed nearly 70% of his passes last year, and has only thrown 14 interceptions in 3 years. Let me repeat that. Mariota only threw 14 interceptions in 3 seasons of college football. I don't care if every pass is only 10-15 yards down-field (which they are not). That is impressive! How and the hell does a quarterback complete nearly 70% of his passes, rarely throw a pick, but also get classified with accuracy issues? Total nonsense! 

 

You want to know what type of quarterback Mariota is? It is fitting that he wears the number 8. Now imagine him a little slower, left handed, and playing for the 49ers a few decades ago.

 

As far as the Alex Smith vs Aaron Rodgers debate? You're kidding me by saying it was 50/50 split on what people thought right? That is just diculous brother. Diculous with a capital D! The only person, and I mean the only person in the media who said Rodgers was better than Smith was Pat Kirwan. The media said Smith had "the best pro day anyone has ever seen, and not a single ball hit the ground." The media was for the most part - all in on Alex Smith. It was stupid. 

 

Aaron Rodgers did not need to sit to be a good quarterback. He just is a good quarterback, period. I am sure he learned a few things sitting behind hateful Favre, but mostly it just * him off.

 

Anyway, I am pretty much done with this conversation. We can talk about again in a few years. You'll know. And I'll know we had this conversation.

[Superman]

...

 

Just because a majority agree doesn't mean they're all victims of groupthink. And just because a person has a contrary viewpoint doesn't make them an original thinker.

 

On Mariota:

• QB footwork and drop steps aren't reliant on athleticism. RG3 is super athletic, but his footwork is atrocious. Mariota's footwork is much better than RG3's, but it still needs a lot of work. The fact that he isn't on film using a pro style drop consistently is a concern. This isn't made up.
• Luck's arm strength doesn't have anything to do with Mariota's. Mariota doesn't drive the ball to certain spots on the field, his balls can sail, they go soft to the sideline, etc. This is especially true when he has to reset his feet.
• Mariota throws to his first read to the exclusion of progression based passing. That's true of almost any spread QB. I don't know why we're comparing him to Tom Brady, who has shown for over a decade that he can be masterful in a pro style offense, can navigate the pocket, has great balance and footwork in the pocket, is accurate to every part of the field, etc. Mariota absolutely mastered his offense, and deserves credit for that. It's still a one-read offense, which is significantly easier to run than a progression based offense, which he'd have to work in eventually in the NFL.
• Accuracy is about far more than completion percentage. Oregon's offense makes it so that the QB throws to open receivers. He doesn't throw through tight windows or make anticipatory throws to the second level of the defense. When he throws up the seam, the ball can sail. He can miss open receivers to the backside of a play when he doesn't set his feet (going back to footwork and mechanics).

It's okay to admit that your guy has to work on some stuff. It doesn't mean he isn't a good prospect.

 

I don't really want to try to dig up a bunch of 10 year old history on Smith vs. Rodgers. Maybe it wasn't 50/50, but there wasn't this complete consensus in favor of Smith. Many people favored Rodgers. And again, Rodgers had some rough spots coming out. Also, if he had to deal with the epic mismanagement of the Niners front office, it probably would have set him back a little, also. Five offensive coordinators in five years is just dumb.

[Gavin]

Don't fool yourself into believing groupthink is not in play here with some people who share your opinion, because it certainly is. In fact, the only opinion that cannot be classified as groupthink is mine. Because as you said, there are a lot of people saying the same thing, and singing the same song you are. Not many saying the same thing I am though. If that makes me wrong in your book then so be it. I can't help the flock from diving into a bed of Lions, but I sure and hell am not going with them. 

 

Every quarterback has weaknesses they need to work on. Even the greats can't escape that. The problem is when these weaknesses are magnified and exaggerated as reasons a player should not be drafted high, or should sit a year or two. 

 

Some of the issues people say Mariota needs to work on is a joke at best. Mariota is a very athletic young man. I doubt he will have issues with 3, 5, or 7 step drops. Hell, he probably already has it mastered by now. He is a freak athlete. Mariota's job in college was to run the system that was in place. It wasn't his job to reinvent the wheel. He owned his position and mastered it. There is no reason to believe he will not do the same under center. 

 

The knock on Mariota's arm strength is a freaking joke. Do they just not have anything better to write about or do they just make stuff up? They said the same thing about Luck too, and at his pro day they even asked Luck to throw a deep ball. He tossed it into the wind 75 yards in the air for the sheep. There is not a problem with Mariota's arm strength just as there was not any problems with Luck's arm. Is there room for improvement? Absolutely. He can be coached up and get stronger. But right now, as of today, he has all the arm strength he needs to play at a very high level in the NFL. 

 

CBS wrote that he was overly reliant on his first read. What kind of crap is that? Most of the plays Oregon runs are first read throws. You want to know who else makes a living off his first read? Tom Brady. So let me get this straight. Some people want to knock Mariota for running a spread offense (where the first read is expected to be thrown most of the time) yet also knock him for throwing to his first read? Freaking ridiculous!

 

CBS also says he has issues with accuracy. Are you kidding me with this crap? Mariota completed nearly 70% of his passes last year, and has only thrown 14 interceptions in 3 years. Let me repeat that. Mariota only threw 14 interceptions in 3 seasons of college football. I don't care if every pass is only 10-15 yards down-field (which they are not). That is impressive! How and the hell does a quarterback complete nearly 70% of his passes, rarely throw a pick, but also get classified with accuracy issues? Total nonsense! 

 

You want to know what type of quarterback Mariota is? It is fitting that he wears the number 8. Now imagine him a little slower, left handed, and playing for the 49ers a few decades ago.

 

As far as the Alex Smith vs Aaron Rodgers debate? You're kidding me by saying it was 50/50 split on what people thought right? That is just diculous brother. Diculous with a capital D! The only person, and I mean the only person in the media who said Rodgers was better than Smith was Pat Kirwan. The media said Smith had "the best pro day anyone has ever seen, and not a single ball hit the ground." The media was for the most part - all in on Alex Smith. It was stupid. 

 

Aaron Rodgers did not need to sit to be a good quarterback. He just is a good quarterback, period. I am sure he learned a few things sitting behind hateful Favre, but mostly it just * him off.

 

Anyway, I am pretty much done with this conversation. We can talk about again in a few years. You'll know. And I'll know we had this conversation.

"Mariota is a very athletic young man. I doubt he will have issues with 3, 5, or 7 step drops."

 

Its not nearly as much about the physical as the mental, ANYONE can drop back 3-5-7 steps...Can he do it while reading defenses and other reads while defenders are flying by him? Not right from the start he wont be able to

 

"CBS also says he has issues with accuracy. Are you kidding me with this crap? Mariota completed nearly 70% of his passes last year, and has only thrown 14 interceptions in 3 years."

 

 

Accuracy is not just about a completion percentage,  A QB has to be able to put a ball on the exact spot...not to high where he makes his receiver jump....possibly leaving him to get hurt (Sounds familiar) or making him jump up slowing down the receivers reaction time to be able to come down and run with the ball leaving what could have been a longer gain go for minimal yards

[BleedBlu8792]

First point...

Mariotta faced college defenses that ranked ~70th in scoring. The Pac-12 is easily the WORST defensive conference out of the Power 5. He should have done what he did considering who he played against.

Second point..

Only TWO Pac-12 QB's in the last 30 years have came out and really did anything. I'm not including Luck due to how early it is, but he's on pace to being the third QB. Those two QB's are Elway and Rodgers. That's it.

Sorry, but no thank you on Mariotta. He has no where near the skillset of Luck, nor has he been groomed for the professional game like Luck was. Mariotta is going to be on skates when he plays an NFL defense. He's going to be exposed like the plethora of other Pac-12 QB's who came out.

[BleedBlu8792]

Also with Rivers being 33/34, I think he still has a good handful of years in him. Tennessee would be upgraded immediately with him. Their defense is very close to turning the corner and being very good, especially now that Lebeau is there. The addition of Rivers to the South would make the division very interesting.