When I compare our talent w/ NE, I give them the edge in these categories

[wig]

45-7

42-20

43-22

59-24

I don't have a lot of questions about which roster is more talented, or how wide the gap is.

I get it, I just don't think that's really important. I don't think our objective should be to beat New England, I don't think we should be worried about comparing our roster to theirs, etc. To me, the staff should be doing whatever they can to make the roster better, regardless of how the season ended, regardless of how we match up with New England on paper. To me, it's just Colts fans torturing themselves because we lost to the Pats again.

I don't care that it was the Pats, but we should always look at what's needed to be at a championship level.

[dw49]

Not soon enough to take our minds off these grasping for the straws topics.

 

 

Yeah .. I agree and also find these topics to be very deflating.

[Ant Ave]

Edelman = T.Y.

Lafell = Hicks

Amendola = Moncreif

Where is this clear edge you speak of ?

[Ant Ave]

For the record ... I agree that on paper NE's wr don't scare anyone but when they're clicking ( reading their cues and executing ) they can be pretty formidable . The Pats passing O is predicated on cerebral route running - not physical domination ( the main reason Gronk has redefined the TE position is his ability to master both ).

[peytonmanning18]

Pats Colts

QB x

x RB

WR x

TE x

x OL

x DL

x LB

CB x

x S

P/K/R x

x COACHING

Is this a joke? New England is significantly better than us at just about every position on the field except wide receiver and I'm not so sure that Eddleman and company are that far behind our guys.

Brady > Luck

Blount, Vereen > Richardson, Herron, Tipton

Gronkowski > Allen, Fleener

Pats O-Line > Colts O-Line

Pats D-Line > Colts D-Line

Pats Linebackers > Colts Linebackers

Revis > Vontae

Browner > Toler

It's really not even close except at WR

[BOTT]

For the record ... I agree that on paper NE's wr don't scare anyone but when they're clicking ( reading their cues and executing ) they can be pretty formidable . The Pats passing O is predicated on cerebral route running - not physical domination ( the main reason Gronk has redefined the TE position is his ability to master both ).

That and a lot of rub routes lol

[Ant Ave]

Ok ...fine ...maybe so.

But I think we both can agree that the Pats are no where near as egregious as the Broncos .

NO ONE 's close to their league

[amfootball]

Scroll down, or up...    Look at Gavin's post.    There's your answer.

 

New England has much better talent -- everywhere.

 

But the thing is -- they're supposed to.    They've been building and rebuilding that roster for 15 straight years.

 

The Colts are on year 3.    I wouldn't expect the Colts to have a roster as good as the Pats at this point in the game.

I am not sure I follow you here. If NE has been rebuilding their roster over and over the past 15 years how does that correlate to the Colts not having a better team after three years? Or are you implying that the jury is still out on whether Grigson and Pagano can build a championship team?  Because this is not an issue of time as the Pats team has flipped a lot over 15 years but all teams do in this era every 3-4 years. So every team has to tear down and build up every few years. Nature of the beast.

 

One of the best things about the FA/cap era is an average team can literally flip/upgrade its roster in one season and become a top team/champ. Similarly that same team can fall off the map on one season as well. The margins are that tight on every personnel decision ...

[Dark Superman]

Coaching

Line play, LBers and secondary. Anyone disagree?

I thought we had better wrs and even better running backs. Special teams. I'll give Brady the edge @ qb, but not substantial

You forgot Quarterback.

[BOTT]

Ok ...fine ...maybe so.

But I think we both can agree that the Pats are no where near as egregious as the Broncos .

NO ONE 's close to their league

It wasn't a shot, I wish the Colts were better at it.

[NewColtsFan]

I am not sure I follow you here. If NE has been rebuilding their roster over and over the past 15 years how does that correlate to the Colts not having a better team after three years? Or are you implying that the jury is still out on whether Grigson and Pagano can build a championship team?  Because this is not an issue of time as the Pats team has flipped a lot over 15 years but all teams do in this era every 3-4 years. So every team has to tear down and build up every few years. Nature of the beast.

 

One of the best things about the FA/cap era is an average team can literally flip/upgrade its roster in one season and become a top team/champ. Similarly that same team can fall off the map on one season as well. The margins are that tight on every personnel decision ...

 

The Pats didn't tear down the way the Colts did.    Most NFL teams don't tear down the way the Colts did.

 

I'm complimenting the Pats.    They've been working on the roster for 15 years.   It SHOULD be better than the Colts.

 

The Colts regime has only had three years to put together a team.   It's not going to be where it eventually will need to be so early in the process.   They need more time.  

 

Grigson/Pagano have built a team that has won 11 games in each of the three years they've been in charge.  And gone further in the playoffs each year.    I think that's a sign they know what they're doing.   And I think this team is more than just Andrew Luck.

 

When Colts fans complain we're not as good as the Pats,  I tell them we're not supposed to be -- at least, not yet.

 

Bellichick is the best coach and has been beating everyone for 15 years.     If the Colts aren't as good as the Pats,  well,  neither is anyone else.

[amfootball]

The Pats didn't tear down the way the Colts did.    Most NFL teams don't tear down the way the Colts did.

 

I'm complimenting the Pats.    They've been working on the roster for 15 years.   It SHOULD be better than the Colts.

 

The Colts regime has only had three years to put together a team.   It's not going to be where it eventually will need to be so early in the process.   They need more time.  

 

Grigson/Pagano have built a team that has won 11 games in each of the three years they've been in charge.  And gone further in the playoffs each year.    I think that's a sign they know what they're doing.   And I think this team is more than just Andrew Luck.

 

When Colts fans complain we're not as good as the Pats,  I tell them we're not supposed to be -- at least, not yet.

 

Bellichick is the best coach and has been beating everyone for 15 years.     If the Colts aren't as good as the Pats,  well,  neither is anyone else.

Gotcha. Yes, the Pats have not had to rebuild both sides of the ball at the same time and of course have always had Brady to help carry the team when each unit was rebuilding.

 

What are your expectations for year 4? Which areas do you hope to see Grigson address? And what will be your measuring stick for success? Do they need to exceed 11 games? Beat the Pats? Go to the Super Bowl?

[NewColtsFan]

Gotcha. Yes, the Pats have not had to rebuild both sides of the ball at the same time and of course have always had Brady to help carry the team when each unit was rebuilding.

 

What are your expectations for year 4? Which areas do you hope to see Grigson address? And what will be your measuring stick for success? Do they need to exceed 11 games? Beat the Pats? Go to the Super Bowl?

 

Fair, but tough questions.

 

Well...   I think we need to win at least 11 games.   I think we need to win at least 1 playoff game.    But,  just spit balling now,  I think we need to be more competitive in the games we lose.

 

I think we need to cut down on the games where we get our butts royally kicked.   So, not just the Pats game,  but we got kicked by Pittsburgh and by Dallas (though, we had just clinched our division and they were still trying to clinch theirs)  

 

I think we need to create more offensive balance.   If we can improve the OL and get a solid running game,  Luck will take his ability to a whole other level.   And while I'm here because I'm a Luck fan,  I don't think he'll ever be as good as Brady or Manning.   But he has to be as good as Andrew Luck can be and he still has a LOT of room for improvement.

 

I think we need to make a concerted effort to build a quality defense.   We've put more resources in the first three years to offense.  I get that.   You have Luck, you have to protect/surround him with talent asap.    But, at some point, you have to start getting younger and more talented on defense.    I hope that starts this year,  but you never know.  

 

When the Colts lose, I think we lose at the Line of Scrimmage.   So, I'd like to see a serious effort to get better lineman.   I'm a big believer in the theory that it all starts up front.

 

I don't expect us to be better than the Pats next year.   I think you guys are the Gold Standard.    I'd just like to be more competitive.     It's one thing to lose,  it's another to get trounced.

 

That's a rough, broad overview of what I'd like to see the Colts do.

[amfootball]

Fair, but tough questions.

 

Well...   I think we need to win at least 11 games.   I think we need to win at least 1 playoff game.    But,  just spit balling now,  I think we need to be more competitive in the games we lose.

 

I think we need to cut down on the games where we get our butts royally kicked.   So, not just the Pats game,  but we got kicked by Pittsburgh and by Dallas (though, we had just clinched our division and they were still trying to clinch theirs)  

 

I think we need to create more offensive balance.   If we can improve the OL and get a solid running game,  Luck will take his ability to a whole other level.   And while I'm here because I'm a Luck fan,  I don't think he'll ever be as good as Brady or Manning.   But he has to be as good as Andrew Luck can be and he still has a LOT of room for improvement.

 

I think we need to make a concerted effort to build a quality defense.   We've put more resources in the first three years to offense.  I get that.   You have Luck, you have to protect/surround him with talent asap.    But, at some point, you have to start getting younger and more talented on defense.    I hope that starts this year,  but you never know.  

 

When the Colts lose, I think we lose at the Line of Scrimmage.   So, I'd like to see a serious effort to get better lineman.   I'm a big believer in the theory that it all starts up front.

 

I don't expect us to be better than the Pats next year.   I think you guys are the Gold Standard.    I'd just like to be more competitive.     It's one thing to lose,  it's another to get trounced.

 

That's a rough, broad overview of what I'd like to see the Colts do.

I think this past year Bill made a concerted effort to get tougher, more physical on both sides of the ball after seeing both the Ravens and Hawks win the past two years. In the end, pretty TDs are nice and scoring points but the big games are won in the trenches. If you control the line, you win but I also think you need tough nosed skill players which we got in spades this year with Gronk, LaFell, Edelman, Blount and then on defense Browner, Collins and Hightower. At every level we had some smash mouth players and that really set the tone.

 

I think if Indy bolsters its lines than your skill guys can play with more swag.

[ThatOneColtFan]

Brady isn't better than Luck right now. So I don't give them the edge there. They're a much better team though.

[NewColtsFan]

I think this past year Bill made a concerted effort to get tougher, more physical on both sides of the ball after seeing both the Ravens and Hawks win the past two years. In the end, pretty TDs are nice and scoring points but the big games are won in the trenches. If you control the line, you win but I also think you need tough nosed skill players which we got in spades this year with Gronk, LaFell, Edelman, Blount and then on defense Browner, Collins and Hightower. At every level we had some smash mouth players and that really set the tone.

 

I think if Indy bolsters its lines than your skill guys can play with more swag.

 

I think this is one of your best posts here.    I hope lots of Colts' fans will read it.      Two thumbs up!!         

[Solon]

The Pats are men, the Colts are boys. Mental fortitude is the biggest advantage they have on the Colts... at every position. They're in the Colts heads, and until we get some players who are bullies themselves, that won't back down, the Pats will continue to win these match ups. It's more psychological than anything    

Totally agree. If we continue acting like the little brother, we'll continue being treated as such.

[ViriLudant]

Brady isn't better than Luck right now. So I don't give them the edge there. They're a much better team though.

Brady is much better than Luck. Luck turned the ball over 22 times this season, and that doesn't even include the playoffs .

[James]

Brady is much better than Luck. Luck turned the ball over 22 times this season, and that doesn't even include the playoffs .

Because Luck has to carry the Colts - unlike Brady. Brady is not better at all, let alone much better. As a Pats fan you should just be thankful that Brady has the GOAT coach Bill Belichick and a better team around him. Thinking Brady is "much better" than Luck is laughable and should only be mentioned on Pats borads. Why are you even here spewing that nonsense?

[ThatOneColtFan]

What a great point. Would love to see Brady on this team and Luck on the Pats with McDaniels at OC and Bill as a HC.

Brady is a great player but anyone with two eyes can see he has a lot of working parts around him. He also cannot throw deep.

Pats receivers were getting open all throughout the SB and his O-line was great. Brady didn't have to make that many tough throws and was able to dink and dunk all game. His receivers are also reliable and don't drop passes or put the ball on the floor.

But sure I guess this means he's far more capable than Andrew in his current state, and not that the Pats weren't the best and most versatile team this year.

Career wise he's the only one comparable to Montana.

[NewColtsFan]

Brady isn't better than Luck right now. So I don't give them the edge there. They're a much better team though.

 

I've been a Stanford fan for more than 45 years.   I'm here, as a colts fan the last 3 years because I'm a fan of Andrew Luck.

 

I think he's the best young talent to come along into the league in a long time -- since Aaron Rodgers.    I love Andrew Luck -- always have,  always will.

 

But, for whatever it's worth,  I don't think Luck is close to Tom Brady.   The Super Bowl should've shown you that.

 

Brady is a couple of levels better than Luck.    Maybe someday Luck will be there.    But I don't think that day is today.

[ViriLudant]

Because Luck has to carry the Colts - unlike Brady. Brady is not better at all, let alone much better. As a Pats fan you should just be thankful that Brady has the GOAT coach Bill Belichick and a better team around him. Thinking Brady is "much better" than Luck is laughable and should only be mentioned on Pats borads. Why are you even here spewing that nonsense?

Because BB throws every pass.

Yep.

Never mind that BB isn't even involved in the offense, by and large. He always focuses on the defense.

[SouthernCal]

there's different terms of a qb being better than another.

[SouthernCal]

difficulty of passing without a reliable running back comes into picture

but it doesn't matter anyway. what's the point of having the better qb when you have the better coaching and team?

[wig]

Gotcha. Yes, the Pats have not had to rebuild both sides of the ball at the same time and of course have always had Brady to help carry the team when each unit was rebuilding.

What are your expectations for year 4? Which areas do you hope to see Grigson address? And what will be your measuring stick for success? Do they need to exceed 11 games? Beat the Pats? Go to the Super Bowl?

I don't care about wins, I want to see improvement on the interior of both lines.

[Superman]

Edelman = T.Y.

Lafell = Hicks

Amendola = Moncreif

Where is this clear edge you speak of ?

Goodness that's off. TY is much better than Edelman, Nicks is a free agent, and Moncrief is going to be a monster, but even now he's better than Amendola.

[crazycolt1]

Brady is much better than Luck. Luck turned the ball over 22 times this season, and that doesn't even include the playoffs .

Why did Luck have so many turnovers?  It's football 101. He has to put the ball in the air much more and has had no running game. That is something Brady has had. Brady also has a defense to help him hold a lead. Does Luck?  Brady also has a very good special team around him where Luck don't. It's easy to sit back and boast about how much better Brady is than Luck and ignore the reasons. The Colts lead the league with long plays while the Patriots dink and dunk. Big difference, You claim to have a good knowledge of football so why not use it?

[RandomFan]

I agree...i cant see how anyone else would disagree after getting smacked around by them four times

 

We got smacked around by them four times because they are by far the more talented football team with outstanding coaching. You don't continuously get blown out by another team unless that team is just flat out better. This isn't rocket science. 

[SouthernCal]

Why did Luck have so many turnovers? It's football 101. He has to put the ball in the air much more and has had no running game. That is something Brady has had. Brady also has a defense to help him hold a lead. Does Luck? Brady also has a very good special team around him where Luck don't. It's easy to sit back and boast about how much better Brady is than Luck and ignore the reasons. The Colts lead the league with long plays while the Patriots dink and dunk. Big difference, You claim to have a good knowledge of football so why not use it?

*kick/punt return special team

[BigQandTheManiac]

We got smacked around by them four times because they are by far the more talented football team with outstanding coaching. You don't continuously get blown out by another team unless that team is just flat out better. This isn't rocket science

I mean ik that, thats why i agreed with his post

[BigQandTheManiac]

We got smacked around by them four times because they are by far the more talented football team with outstanding coaching. You don't continuously get blown out by another team unless that team is just flat out better. This isn't rocket science.

Ik that, that's why i agreed with his post

[ViriLudant]

Goodness that's off. TY is much better than Edelman, Nicks is a free agent, and Moncrief is going to be a monster, but even now he's better than Amendola.

Just how is Ty much better? I'd argue that Edelman is by far the better red zone threat . The only edge Ty has is as a burner, and Edelman is not slow.

Add in the fact that Edelman is one of, if not the, best PRs in the game.

[ViriLudant]

Why did Luck have so many turnovers? It's football 101. He has to put the ball in the air much more and has had no running game. That is something Brady has had. Brady also has a defense to help him hold a lead. Does Luck? Brady also has a very good special team around him where Luck don't. It's easy to sit back and boast about how much better Brady is than Luck and ignore the reasons. The Colts lead the league with long plays while the Patriots dink and dunk. Big difference, You claim to have a good knowledge of football so why not use it?

Simple example: was Luck's INT to Revis a good decision ?

Luck's problem at this stage is that he makes too many poor decisions. He should get beyond this. Right now he is the equivalent of Donovan McNabb. That's not an insult at all; McNabb was a great QB who also ran well.

Luck needs to be smarter with the football; once he improves there, he'll reach elite status.

[Ant Ave]

Goodness that's off. TY is much better than Edelman, Nicks is a free agent, and Moncrief is going to be a monster, but even now he's better than Amendola.

[Ant Ave]

I love T.Y.s Hilton's game ...if the Colts could accumilate 50 other players of his ability / desire they'd go 19 - 0

It's true he's an overall better wr than Edelman but to be fair Edelman's strength can't just be quantified by catching the football . He's an excellent route runner (reader ) ,great pick setter , awesome blocker , with good hands and big time / big game skills ( not to mention a trusty punt returner - actually the NFLs 3rd best all-time avg, )

My guess is if u asked 32 GMs to pick one it would be split .

Same goes for the two teams wr corps...

GMs would likely be split on their preference .

In my opinion it's a wash at best .

[Superman]

I love T.Y.s Hilton's game ...if the Colts could accumilate 50 other players of his ability / desire they'd go 19 - 0

It's true he's an overall better wr than Edelman but to be fair Edelman's strength can't just be quantified by catching the football . He's an excellent route runner (reader ) ,great pick setter , awesome blocker , with good hands and big time / big game skills ( not to mention a trusty punt returner - actually the NFLs 3rd best all-time avg, )

My guess is if u asked 32 GMs to pick one it would be split .

Same goes for the two teams wr corps...

GMs would likely be split on their preference .

In my opinion it's a wash at best .

 

Yeah, to me it's pretty easy. Edelman is a heck of a player, but I think it's pretty obvious that Hilton is better. And I don't think Edelman would get 16 out of 32 votes from NFL GMs.

 

Same for Moncrief > Amendola, and I don't know who our #3 will be next year, but I don't think it will be hard to do better than Brandon LaFell.

[amfootball]

Yeah, to me it's pretty easy. Edelman is a heck of a player, but I think it's pretty obvious that Hilton is better. And I don't think Edelman would get 16 out of 32 votes from NFL GMs.

 

Same for Moncrief > Amendola, and I don't know who our #3 will be next year, but I don't think it will be hard to do better than Brandon LaFell.

LaFell had 74 catches for just shy of 1000 yards that is #2 receiver production and better than any #2 on the Colts. Amendola would be our #3 guy and I am not sure I would put Moncrief ahead of him right now as he has played so little. He may be better but have to see more. Amendola really started to come on late in the season and was huge in the postseason esp. vs the Ravens with two TDs and a key third down conversion on the winning drive. 

[SouthernCal]

wr core is overrated for the colts and it's actually not even great.

[SouthernCal]

Simple example: was Luck's INT to Revis a good decision ?

Luck's problem at this stage is that he makes too many poor decisions. He should get beyond this. Right now he is the equivalent of Donovan McNabb. That's not an insult at all; McNabb was a great QB who also ran well.

Luck needs to be smarter with the football; once he improves there, he'll reach elite status.

That Luck INT to Revis is when the colts were down by a lot...... 31-7 that time....... pick another int.

And the Mcnabb comparison is awful. Mcnabb have a top 5-10 RB in his majority of his career and he never have 4k passing yards and 40 TDs in a season.

[ViriLudant]

That Luck INT to Revis is when the colts were down by a lot...... 31-7 that time....... pick another int.

And the Mcnabb comparison is awful. Mcnabb have a top 5-10 RB in his majority of his career and he never have 4k passing yards and 40 TDs in a season.

So? McNabb also played during a time when QBs could be mauled, as could WRs. Luck is playing at a time when all rules favor the offense.