If the latest reports are true

[dw49]

They said 6 were turned over by NE and that's all they had. I think the 2nd tape I saw was of the Vikings.

I couldn't sit thru 6 tapes full games for the rest tho of the same thing

 

 

I believe ya but why is stuff like this available all over the internet. Here's the link to the whole article and I'll copy a bit of it and put below.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/536958-cheating-as-much-as-patriot-fans-hate-to-hear-it-spygate-may-never-go-away

 

 

 

At the time commissioner Goodell claimed he had destroyed the tapes so that the Patriots "would not secure any possible competitive advantage as a result of the misconduct."

This explanation, of course, made no sense as the Patriots no longer had the tapes.  commissioner Goodell had them.  Had this been a court of law, Goodell's destruction of the tapes would have been a serious offense indeed.  Goodell is no fool, he knew that destroying the tapes would cause an uproar, but he did it anyway.

Why would Goodell have dared destroy the videotapes?  The only reason a person would dare destroy evidence is because the threat of what the evidence reveals is far more dangerous than the possible penalties for destroying it.  I have to think that was the case with the Spygate tapes. 

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The only reason I can see for Goodell destroying the tapes is because they showed cheating at such a level that the implications of making the extent of New England's cheating known to the public would have been far more devastating, for the NFL, than any consequences Goodell might face for destroying them.

The NFL's reference, in the recent scandal, to Steve Scarnecchia as a "repeat offender" also goes against Roger Goodell's claim in 2007 that the Spygate tapes were only of games in 2006 and 2007.  Scarnecchia was no longer with the Patriots during those seasons.  So does this further suggest that Goodell was lying about the Spygate tapes and what they contained?

Back in 2007 the former New England Patriots video assistant Matt Walsh claimed that there had been much more that wasn't known by the public.  So in regards to the recent scandal in Denver, can we really be certain that what has been made known to the public is the true extent of this issue?

Let's look at this objectively.  Would an individual choose, of their own accord, to put their entire career on the line to tape a few minutes of an opponents practice, especially when they know the penalties for doing such.  Steve Scarnecchia had worked for the Patriots, and knows very well the results of what had occurred with Spygate.

So we are to believe that Scarnecchia, knowing the penalty for illegal videotaping, decided to do so anyway, without being asked to do so by Josh McDaniels or anyone with the Broncos. 

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And then we are to believe that he presented this videotape to McDaniels even though McDaniels claims he hadn't requested it.  McDaniels claims further that he didn't watch the tape.  This reminds me too much of Bill Clinton's excuse, "I didn't inhale."

And we are to believe that this is the only time Scarnecchia had videotaped an opponents practice.  If so, why would Scarnecchia put his career on the line to tape the hapless San Francisco 49'ers?  They had only won one game to that point.  And Scarnecchia risked his job to tape them?

It all seems far-fetched to me that anyone would choose to risk their career in such a way without someone much higher up in the organization requesting the videotaping be done. 

And as Scarnecchia presented the tape to McDaniels, and McDaniels didn't turn it over to the NFL, the appearance is that the request came from McDaniels.  It also seems far-fetched that a lowly, struggling team, like the 49'ers have been this year, would be the only team that was taped. 

In the end, the Broncos never disclosed how the videotaping incident was discovered.  Nor did they disclose who it was that turned in the tape.  So we are left to speculate about what the truth really is regarding the original Spygate and these more recent events that some are calling Spygate 2.

On several NFL related chat rooms Patriot fans have claimed that this sort of cheating is done by other teams, as well.  And under any other circumstances Patriot fans would have probably felt some vindication at another team being caught cheating.  But when the only other team to ever be caught cheating is comprised of former New England Patriots, it just makes Spygate seem all the worse.

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[Bad Morty]

Seriously?  You go on other boards so you can see how your team success negatively impacts the lives of other people?  Are you really that unhappy?  

People have a problem here with reading comprehension, apparently. I come here to talk football with the people who actually want to talk football. As a side note, the trolls at every forum who can't contribute anything more than "Spygate!" "Cheaters!" "Asterisk!" etc...that's just pure side amusement for me and most Pats fans.

[ViriLudant]

You must be so proud. Your team is filled with inspirational cheaters. And, cheating that wasn't necessary. It's too bad.

This post is completely inaccurate. The Patriots have not been found guilty of anything since '07, and as GoPats has already proven , that was highly exaggerated.

[SouthernCal]

People have a problem here with reading comprehension, apparently. I come here to talk football with the people who actually want to talk football. As a side note, the trolls at every forum who can't contribute anything more than "Spygate!" "Cheaters!" "Asterisk!" etc...that's just pure side amusement for me and most Pats fans.

You said you are a colts fan but you never participate in any colts related threads. In fact almost every post/content of yours are in every patriots/gate/otherteamcheating thread.

Plus only two Pats fans are actually pure amusement/gloat in this forum. That's you and Viri.

Also you can't call other fans trolls when you are the one to lurk on other team's boards to gloat/amusement/boost ego.

So what are you really doing?

[Bad Morty]

You said you are a colts fan but you never participate in any colts related threads. In fact almost every post/content of yours are in every patriots/gate/otherteamcheating thread.

Plus only two Pats fans are actually pure amusement/gloat in this forum. That's you and Viri.

Also you can't call other fans trolls when you are the one to lurk on other team's boards to gloat/amusement/boost ego.

So what are you really doing?

wasting time, like everyone else. This is an opinion forum, is it not? I registered and I post opinions, do I not? I don't believe I'm violating the rules of the forum, and if I am then please accept my apologies and I will stop immediately. So tell me again - what's the problem? I was unaware that one's reason for being here was relevant.

[SouthernCal]

wasting time, like everyone else. This is an opinion forum, is it not? I registered and I post opinions, do I not? I don't believe I'm violating the rules of the forum, and if I am then please accept my apologies and I will stop immediately. So tell me again - what's the problem? I was unaware that one's reason for being here was relevant.

You're not breaking anything really. You just have so many flaws in your posts and I only pointed them out. Didn't mean to offend you.

[Bad Morty]

You're not breaking anything really. You just have so many flaws in your posts and I only pointed them out. Didn't mean to offend you.

no offense taken and thanks for the input!

[bababooey]

wasting time, like everyone else. This is an opinion forum, is it not? I registered and I post opinions, do I not? I don't believe I'm violating the rules of the forum, and if I am then please accept my apologies and I will stop immediately. So tell me again - what's the problem? I was unaware that one's reason for being here was relevant.

You're on a colts forum but only post in forums outside of colts football, specifically only ones related to the patriots cheating that make your fanbase look even worse. Frankly idk why you are wasting your time.

[Bad Morty]

You're on a colts forum but only post in forums outside of colts football, specifically only ones related to the patriots cheating that make your fanbase look even worse. Frankly idk why you are wasting your time.

Well again - thank you for the input, or dare I say concern over how I spend my time? It's very kind of you.

[SouthernCal]

You're on a colts forum but only post in forums outside of colts football, specifically only ones related to the patriots cheating that make your fanbase look even worse. Frankly idk why you are wasting your time.

it didn't make them look worst. Only two of every patriots fan here are using the cheat/gate/scandal/etc thread for amusement because they won the superbowl(rightfully so because my franchise did the same thing).

[SouthernCal]

no offense taken and thanks for the input!

no problem

[ricker182]

I believe this to be a true statement that most people outside of NE feel this way.

 

I also believe that it doesn't really matter to the team and fans that they are perceived this way.

No but it obviously irks their fans. They wouldn't be here otherwise.

[radiogirl]

People have a problem here with reading comprehension, apparently. I come here to talk football with the people who actually want to talk football. As a side note, the trolls at every forum who can't contribute anything more than "Spygate!" "Cheaters!" "Asterisk!" etc...that's just pure side amusement for me and most Pats fans.

Well, that's too bad.  There's a lot of sports talk that goes on here with people that have been friends for a long time.  I could care less about spygate and deflate gate.  What I take issue with is people that come on here knowing it's a COLTS FORUM and start to poke at the team the forum is built around.  It's the Colts fault for bringing it out, etc.  It just gets old.

[radiogirl]

This post is completely inaccurate. The Patriots have not been found guilty of anything since '07, and as GoPats has already proven , that was highly exaggerated.

Got it.  Thanks for clearing things up.  I know you are an expert on this forum.

[radiogirl]

You said you are a colts fan but you never participate in any colts related threads. In fact almost every post/content of yours are in every patriots/gate/otherteamcheating thread.

Plus only two Pats fans are actually pure amusement/gloat in this forum. That's you and Viri.

Also you can't call other fans trolls when you are the one to lurk on other team's boards to gloat/amusement/boost ego.

So what are you really doing?

Out of likes so........NAILED IT!  Thank you!

[ricker182]

Yes we will.

No we won't. They can't release any incriminating info after the Pats won it all.    

They'll just say they can't prove the Pats intentionally deflated the balls or use a fall guy.  

This is what we have come to expect from the NFL. The same NFL that claimed it didn't see the Ray Rice tape nor could attain it, yet TMZ did.  

Their investigations are clown level for how big a company they are.

This is a nightmare for the NFL. This is an embarrassment for the fans that sink billions into football.

[Bad Morty]

Well, that's too bad.  There's a lot of sports talk that goes on here with people that have been friends for a long time.  I could care less about spygate and deflate gate.  What I take issue with is people that come on here knowing it's a COLTS FORUM and start to poke at the team the forum is built around.  It's the Colts fault for bringing it out, etc.  It just gets old.

yeah I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I didn't see any rules that say you have to be a fan of a certain team to post here. I actually like the Colts and think they are on the cusp of taking it to the next level. I haven't once thrown anything in anyone's face here...I simply see a LOT of bitter "they cheated!" whining and I respond with my opinion. People who don't want my opinion are 100% free to ignore me...I won't be offended. This is an internet message board...not the UN Security Council.

[radiogirl]

yeah I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I didn't see any rules that say you have to be a fan of a certain team to post here. I actually like the Colts and think they are on the cusp of taking it to the next level. I haven't once thrown anything in anyone's face here...I simply see a LOT of bitter "they cheated!" whining and I respond with my opinion. People who don't want my opinion are 100% free to ignore me...I won't be offended. This is an internet message board...not the UN Security Council.

There is no stated rule you have to be a fan of a certain team.  Of course.  I personally am not bitter at all.  We had an awesome season as all of my posts have stated.  I'm proud of this team and agree we are onto great things.  But, if you have kept track of a lot of these threads, there were several Pats fans on the site saying everyone's bitter and it's the Colts fault the football scandal came out. I think it's crap.  Yadda, yadda. Then, they get so surprised when people start to defend the Colts team, organization, and fan base.  I don't go onto other fan base social media sites....tell them their ugly and their mamma dresses 'em funny.  I hope you see my point.  I don't think anything will come out of this either way. The NFL has no idea what to do with this.  But, you should know what to expect poking at a fan base when you're on their site.  That's all.  Off to a meeting.  You all work it out.....

[ViriLudant]

There is no stated rule you have to be a fan of a certain team. Of course. I personally am not bitter at all. We had an awesome season as all of my posts have stated. I'm proud of this team and agree we are onto great things. But, if you have kept track of a lot of these threads, there were several Pats fans on the site saying everyone's bitter and it's the Colts fault the football scandal came out. I think it's crap. Yadda, yadda. Then, they get so surprised when people start to defend the Colts team, organization, and fan base. I don't go onto other fan base social media sites....tell them their ugly and their mamma dresses 'em funny. I hope you see my point. I don't think anything will come out of this either way. The NFL has no idea what to do with this. But, you should know what to expect poking at a fan base when you're on their site. That's all. Off to a meeting. You all work it out.....

Several?

Besides Morty, who else?

In general, I like the Colts, particularly Luck, and have said so in many threads . The only threads where I'm combative are the ones that inaccurately insult the Patriots.

[Cynjin]

You said you are a colts fan but you never participate in any colts related threads. In fact almost every post/content of yours are in every patriots/gate/otherteamcheating thread.

Plus only two Pats fans are actually pure amusement/gloat in this forum. That's you and Viri.

Also you can't call other fans trolls when you are the one to lurk on other team's boards to gloat/amusement/boost ego.

So what are you really doing?

Wait, wait, wait a minute, Bad Morty claims to be a Colts fan? Now that's a good one, lol.

[bababooey]

Several?

Besides Morty, who else?

In general, I like the Colts, particularly Luck, and have said so in many threads . The only threads where I'm combative are the ones that inaccurately insult the Patriots.

What are you expecting when you're on the forum of the team who's opponent they hate most is yours?

[The Fish]

This thread gave me a headache. 

[radiogirl]

Wait, wait, wait a minute, Bad Morty claims to be a Colts fan? Now that's a good one, lol.

 

Wait, wait, wait a minute, Bad Morty claims to be a Colts fan? Now that's a good one, lol.

I know right!!!!  Hilarious!

[Bad Morty]

I DO like the Colts!! Honestly!

[Cynjin]

I DO like the Colts!! Honestly!

I call B. S. on that.

[radiogirl]

I DO like the Colts!! Honestly!

This post is even funnier than Cynjin's!

[Bad Morty]

The only teams I really dislike are the Jets and Ravens.I like Luck a lot...seems like a genuinely decent dude. I always liked Peyton too...his commercials are funny.

[Sting]

Yes and the Pats also handled it better than anyone. Kraft's presser before the Super Bowl was in a word - fantastic. He was able to summarily knock down deflategate, install confidence in his team by backing Bill and Tom so strongly and setting the direction for the entire week toward the Super Bowl. Maybe his best press conference ever and what makes him such a great owner.

Now compare to Elway and the way he handled things with Fox and company prior to their playoff game and subsequent loss and staff firing and you see the difference in spades.

 

I feel confident in saying that this Super Bowl was won as much from the podium as the field.

My problem with Kraft is his arrogance.  The NFL has a responsibility to investigate anything that any team may be doing that is against the rules.  The NFL does not have to issue an apology for investigating a situation that was brought to their attention.  They have an obligation to all fans to find out the truth.  Even if it is found out that the Pats didn't deflate the balls, the NFL had to act on the accusations.  No apology should be given, Kraft is not bigger than the game's reputation.

[JerodMayo51]

Did you see the tapes? I did; they were boring shots going from the clock to the DC, then back again.

Don't forget the cheerleader shots!

[JerodMayo51]

I forgot everyone could see the Rams walkthrough before the superbowl.

I bet you think strippers like you too.

Lol props for that last sentence

But the Rams walkthrough was never taped, that was a story that Thomase ran with the day before the superbowl based on no facts or credible source and the Boston Globe had to retract the story and issue an apology.. I think Kraft also sued them

[Bad Morty]

My problem with Kraft is his arrogance.  The NFL has a responsibility to investigate anything that any team may be doing that is against the rules.  The NFL does not have to issue an apology for investigating a situation that was brought to their attention.  They have an obligation to all fans to find out the truth.  Even if it is found out that the Pats didn't deflate the balls, the NFL had to act on the accusations.  No apology should be given. 

I don't think Kraft or any Patriots fan has an issue with a complaint against them being fairly investigated. The issue (and the request for the apology) is in the *-poor way it was handled by the NFL (go figure - the NFL botched something). Try to imagine a scenario where the Patriots truly did not do anything wrong here (I know this may be difficult for many here, but try anyway)...if that's the case, then the "media trial and conviction" they were subjected to thanks to the league leaking information AND not setting the record straight regarding incorrect information that was circulating when they should have been celebrating a conference championship and preparing for a Superbowl is an embarrassment and a disgrace. Goodell allowed Kraft's good name to be torn apart for 2 weeks thanks to misinformation leaked by league sources. That's inexcusable and I would expect any franchise owner to be pretty angry about it if it were their franchise.

[radiogirl]

I don't think Kraft or any Patriots fan has an issue with a complaint against them being fairly investigated. The issue (and the request for the apology) is in the *-poor way it was handled by the NFL (go figure - the NFL botched something). Try to imagine a scenario where the Patriots truly did not do anything wrong here (I know this may be difficult for many here, but try anyway)...if that's the case, then the "media trial and conviction" they were subjected to thanks to the league leaking information AND not setting the record straight regarding incorrect information that was circulating when they should have been celebrating a conference championship and preparing for a Superbowl is an embarrassment and a disgrace. Goodell allowed Kraft's good name to be torn apart for 2 weeks thanks to misinformation leaked by league sources. That's inexcusable and I would expect any franchise owner to be pretty angry about it if it were their franchise.

That's the nature of media, though.  Not the NFL.  What are they gonna do?  Call the news outlets and tell them they can't talk about what has come out in terms of rumors, leaks, etc.  They can't.  It's the world we live in today.  People talk.  Media outlets then report, speculate, etc.  Is Kraft calling for ESPN, NBC, CBS, etc. to issue an apology?  Ain't gonna happen.  And, how can the NFL set the record straight when they are still saying they don't know exactly what happened.  Kraft can be mad all he wants.  Doesn't matter.

[Bad Morty]

That's the nature of media, though.  Not the NFL.  What are they gonna do?  Call the news outlets and tell them they can't talk about what has come out in terms of rumors, leaks, etc.  They can't.  It's the world we live in today.  People talk.  Media outlets then report, speculate, etc.  Is Kraft calling for ESPN, NBC, CBS, etc. to issue an apology?  Ain't gonna happen.  And, how can the NFL set the record straight when they are still saying they don't know exactly what happened.  Kraft can be mad all he wants.  Doesn't matter.

A well run organization with discipline knows how to keep in-house matters in-house. The culture over there at the NFL offices is rotten to the core, imo, and the fact that all these leaks got out to the media is symptomatic of that. As for setting the record straight...I partially agree. But I would say they knew a couple of things before the story even broke that might have stopped it in its tracks. For example, the report that 11 of the 12 balls were 2lbs under the minimum at half-time...wouldn't you say they knew whether or not that was true right away? If it turns out that Rappaport's story is the truth, where only one ball was "suspicious" and not 11 out of 12, I think that they owed it to the Patriots to get that out there right away...because I think it would have significantly derailed the story. Instead, they basically let the Patriots twist in the wind and allowed this tsunami to build up. The cynic in me thinks they did that to secure ratings for the game, which (surprise surprise) were record-breaking. I think Goodell is a corrupt buffoon.

[radiogirl]

A well run organization with discipline knows how to keep in-house matters in-house. The culture over there at the NFL offices is rotten to the core, imo, and the fact that all these leaks got out to the media is symptomatic of that. As for setting the record straight...I partially agree. But I would say they knew a couple of things before the story even broke that might have stopped it in its tracks. For example, the report that 11 of the 12 balls were 2lbs under the minimum at half-time...wouldn't you say they knew whether or not that was true right away? If it turns out that Rappaport's story is the truth, where only one ball was "suspicious" and not 11 out of 12, I think that they owed it to the Patriots to get that out there right away...because I think it would have significantly derailed the story. Instead, they basically let the Patriots twist in the wind and allowed this tsunami to build up. The cynic in me thinks they did that to secure ratings for the game, which (surprise surprise) were record-breaking. I think Goodell is a corrupt buffoon.

I predicted to my husband that this would be a record breaker in terms of ratings.  Go figure.  A major scandal breaks before the superbowl.  I didn't watch it.  But, the rest of the world did.  Nobody wanted to miss it because of the circumstances.  The NFL was damned if they did and damned if they didn't in regards to this story.  Still are.  I hardly think the Patriots were twisting in the wind.  They had their fans run to their side and demand justice.  If anything, it fired them up.  Just look at the crap that went on inside this forum alone.  AND IT'S A COLTS FORUM!  The Pats win the Superbowl...shocker...and the NFL doesn't want anything to come out that would show negatively on the NFL and it's integrity.  So, I truly think this will go away with little to no fanfare.  Can't lose that sponsorship money....

[amfootball]

My problem with Kraft is his arrogance.  The NFL has a responsibility to investigate anything that any team may be doing that is against the rules.  The NFL does not have to issue an apology for investigating a situation that was brought to their attention.  They have an obligation to all fans to find out the truth.  Even if it is found out that the Pats didn't deflate the balls, the NFL had to act on the accusations.  No apology should be given, Kraft is not bigger than the game's reputation.

He was not asking for an apology about the investigation but about the way it was being handled with the leaks and all painting a picture of the Pats guilt and no response from the league.

[-JJ-]

He was not asking for an apology about the investigation but about the way it was being handled with the leaks and all painting a picture of the Pats guilt and no response from the league.

Spot on- in fact he said he'd welcome it.  It was just as you say- leaks to the media causing speculation worse than a jack rabbit.

[radiogirl]

He was not asking for an apology about the investigation but about the way it was being handled with the leaks and all painting a picture of the Pats guilt and no response from the league.

No way they could touch that not knowing the details. No way. They had to say nothing as they will continue to do. If they had stood up for the integrity of the team and something is found...they look like *s!

[amfootball]

No way they could touch that not knowing the details. No way. They had to say nothing as they will continue to do. If they had stood up for the integrity of the team and something is found...they look like *s!

 

This is a much larger communications issue. I had posted this another thread and will post here again - Goodell had to do an investigation, but the way his organization managed this crisis is flat out abysmal, starting with the leaks, and then not setting expectations on the investigation. He should have said from the start that nothing will be completed until after the Super Bowl. He also should have kept the investigation to a minimal number of people on his team. And I might add, his lack of strong communications to set the tone, from Ray Rice to this, is horrible. They should have never used the word investigation - instead, will review our ball handling process from the game in question. And he should have said that he is confident in the process and adherence to the NFL's rules on competitiveness. Not making any strong statements lights a match to a spark. And this is the issue that Kraft and all of us fans in NE had with this situation  and quite frankly has been the main issue with Goodell since he became Commish – he lacks the communications skills that are inherently needed for someone in his position. This is his most successful franchise which had won in a blow out in the conference title being accused by the losing of team of deflating footballs midway through the second quarter. To allow this story to blow up the way he did because he failed to make any strong statements is what allowed it to spiral out of control. He needed to set the perimeters from the get go and as usual he failed miserably. And this is what Kraft wants an apology for if the Pats are exonerated and he has every right to demand one.

 

[radiogirl]

This is a much larger communications issue. I had posted this another thread and will post here again - Goodell had to do an investigation, but the way his organization managed this crisis is flat out abysmal, starting with the leaks, and then not setting expectations on the investigation. He should have said from the start that nothing will be completed until after the Super Bowl. He also should have kept the investigation to a minimal number of people on his team. And I might add, his lack of strong communications to set the tone, from Ray Rice to this, is horrible. They should have never used the word investigation - instead, will review our ball handling process from the game in question. And he should have said that he is confident in the process and adherence to the NFL's rules on competitiveness. Not making any strong statements lights a match to a spark. And this is the issue that Kraft and all of us fans in NE had with this situation  and quite frankly has been the main issue with Goodell since he became Commish – he lacks the communications skills that are inherently needed for someone in his position. This is his most successful franchise which had won in a blow out in the conference title being accused by the losing of team of deflating footballs midway through the second quarter. To allow this story to blow up the way he did because he failed to make any strong statements is what allowed it to spiral out of control. He needed to set the perimeters from the get go and as usual he failed miserably. And this is what Kraft wants an apology for if the Pats are exonerated and he has every right to demand one.

 

I agree something should have been said about when it would be addressed and the lack of communication is bad for any side you're on. Saying something might have calmed both sides for awhile a little too little and a little too late now. and as for an apology.....Won't happen.

[ThaCaliColt]

I'm embarrassed about how my team got kicked to the curb. I don't care about the air in the footballs. It's trivial at this point. The investigation was botched, hell, I don't care if Tom likes the balls with a slight amount of air taken out...I'm almost tired of hearing about it. They outplayed us in the trenches in a way that I wasn't expecting. Colts have handled physical teams. This was just an atrocious performance, particularly in the second half.