If the latest reports are true

[ViriLudant]

LOL for salary cap violations. Your team's cheating affected the game on the field for years and now more years

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?!?

This post , more than any other, proves that you have NO idea what you're talking about.

Cheating the cap allowed for Denver to have Terrell Davis and John Elway on their roster.

Ballghazi isn't proven. Spygate had nothing to do with what happened on the field . All Spygate was, for the misinformed Colt fans out there, was the recording of signals that EVERYONE IN THE FRICKIN STADIUM COULD SEE.

It blows my mind how ridiculously ignorant people are about Spygate.

[Gramz]

The Commissioner's Report, and the findings from the investigation can't come out fast enough.

 

This playing it back and forth in the media on TV, newspapers, social media and so on  is really getting tiring.  

 

Maybe it's been a big tadoo about nothing, or maybe there is some substance and validity behind the accusations and investigation at hand.   I have read so many reports, and spins, and comments from big names in the NFL,  which btw are just comments and opinions.  Everyone has an opinion.   Doesn't mean their opinion is the true fact.

 

I can't wait till this is over and behind us, whatever the outcome.

[Bad Morty]

LOL for salary cap violations. Your team's cheating affected the game on the field for years and now more years

This might be the most mind-bogglingly silly comment I've seen here yet (and I read the entirety of the "Butler's 3 stories" thread, so that's saying something)...violating the salary cap in order to keep Terrel Davis on the team...that has no impact on the game. But a football that's 2 lbs under does. Wow.

[PeterBowman]

I'll be waiting to see what the reports show...no need in rushing through it

 

if nothing wrong is proven, then we'll move on

 

but if there is considerable wrong doing, then I'd like to see the book thrown at them

[Gramz]

I'll be waiting to see what the reports show...no need in rushing through it

 

if nothing wrong is proven, then we'll move on

 

but if there is considerable wrong doing, then I'd like to see the book thrown at them

Yeah, my comment was not meant to infer that I wanted them to rush a decision.   It was just a "figure of speech"  that I'm more than ready for all the speculation to end, and the facts to come out ~ whatever they are.

[18Manning]

The Colts pointed this problem out in week 11 and it was substantiated not once but twice in the playoffs.

The point is, as Tom pointed out in 2011, he likes using under-inflated/ deflated balls. Obviously the league was cool with it, but not anymore.

Now because of the Colts and Ravens, teams with Qbs who have small hands or weak grips will become obsolete.

Nice try on the spin-job though.

 

Where do you people come from? Some of the comments posted are so ridiculous.

[18Manning]

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?!?

This post , more than any other, proves that you have NO idea what you're talking about.

Cheating the cap allowed for Denver to have Terrell Davis and John Elway on their roster.

Ballghazi isn't proven. Spygate had nothing to do with what happened on the field . All Spygate was, for the misinformed Colt fans out there, was the recording of signals that EVERYONE IN THE FRICKIN STADIUM COULD SEE.

It blows my mind how ridiculously ignorant people are about Spygate.

 

Whether or not an edge was garnered from the video taping, it was against the rules. BB was fined $500,000.00 and NE fined $250,000.00. Did the NFL levy those fines only to pacify everyone that's not a NE fan? The rule is there for a reason. If there was no potential to realize an edge, then why video tape in the first place?

[cdgacoltsfan]

read the post...this is Boomer Esiaison's take.

Nice try..the last 2 paragraphs are your take Mr. politician.

[Bad Morty]

Nice try..the last 2 paragraphs are your take Mr. politician.

 

I said it's a plausible take, considering the source. You seem to want to make it out as though this is just another ill-informed rant by an anonymous internet poster. It isn't.

[Gramz]

read the post...this is Boomer Esiaison's take.

I like Boomer.  I always have.   I very much dislike Chris Collingsworth.  I always have.

 

It doesn't mean I believe, or disbelieve anything and everything either have to say.  

 

It is their opinion they are voicing.  They are both on the complete  different end of the spectrum on this debate, and their comments are just their opinions.

[ViriLudant]

Whether or not an edge was garnered from the video taping, it was against the rules. BB was fined $500,000.00 and NE fined $250,000.00. Did the NFL levy those fines only to pacify everyone that's not a NE fan? The rule is there for a reason. If there was no potential to realize an edge, then why video tape in the first place?

I'm not saying that the taping want against the rules; it was, and BB admitted that he had misinterpreted the memo. But the "advantage" was blown out of proportion . All the recording did was allow a faster way of recording something that easily could (and was) done by hand.

[18Manning]

I'm not saying that the taping want against the rules; it was, and BB admitted that he had misinterpreted the memo. But the "advantage" was blown out of proportion . All the recording did was allow a faster way of recording something that easily could (and was) done by hand.

 

Excellent! We finally agree on something. And that was a non-belittling, non-defensive response.

[Bad Morty]

I like Boomer.  I always have.   I very much dislike Chris Collingsworth.  I always have.

 

It doesn't mean I believe, or disbelieve anything and everything either have to say.  

 

It is their opinion they are voicing.  They are both on complete the different end of the spectrum on this debate, and their comments are just their opinions.

Yes it's clearly Boomer's opinion, and he didn't suggest otherwise. However I give his opinion far more weight than anything anybody here (including me) comes up with. Boomer was never involved with any of the teams here...hell - he was a Jet for much of his career so if anything he'd be more likely to be biased against the Pats. I also have no doubt this petty type of one-upsmanship happens all the time. Brady definitely took a shot at Harbaugh, and Harbaugh is as competitive as they come...I'm sure that went up his butt sideways.

[JerodMayo51]

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?!?

This post , more than any other, proves that you have NO idea what you're talking about.

Cheating the cap allowed for Denver to have Terrell Davis and John Elway on their roster.

Ballghazi isn't proven. Spygate had nothing to do with what happened on the field . All Spygate was, for the misinformed Colt fans out there, was the recording of signals that EVERYONE IN THE FRICKIN STADIUM COULD SEE.

It blows my mind how ridiculously ignorant people are about Spygate.

Come on ViriLudant, it was just a little l, blatant salary cap violation to keep their 2 superstar players.. the MVPs of their 2 super bowl runs..

What's the big deal? The Patriots had some footballs that were a few ticks below the allowed threshold in a game that was played in New England, in janaury in freezing cold rain!

Justice must be served swiftly and harshly!! Strip the Pats of all 4 titles and award them to the Colts, ban Belichick from the league, ban Brady from the league, ban the Patriots from the playoffs for life, strip them of all their draft picks for the next 5 years and have a public execution of Robert Kraft in the streets of indianapolis!!!

[SouthernCal]

Why are you guys talking about the Broncos and elway cheating?

If anything, screw John elway.

[Gramz]

Yes it's clearly Boomer's opinion, and he didn't suggest otherwise. However I give his opinion far more weight than anything anybody here (including me) comes up with. Boomer was never involved with any of the teams here...hell - he was a Jet for much of his career so if anything he'd be more likely to be biased against the Pats. I also have no doubt this petty type of one-upsmanship happens all the time. Brady definitely took a shot at Harbaugh, and Harbaugh is as competitive as they come...I'm sure that went up his butt sideways.

I agree that Boomer's assessment could very well be true.

 

I also agree that Chris Collingsworth and Al Michaels assessment that Brady had way too much wiggle room and avoiding what should have been easy questions to answer held some weight.

 

They all have opinions, and the platform to spin those thoughts and opinions.

 

Once again, I say it is a real shame it has played out in the media like it has.

[cdgacoltsfan]

I said it's a plausible take, considering the source. You seem to want to make it out as though this is just another ill-informed rant by an anonymous internet poster. It isn't.

Yeah OK...Gotchya Mr. Kraft

[bababooey]

Four tainted titles.

[GoPats]

LOL for salary cap violations. Your team's cheating affected the game on the field for years and now more years

 

So if either John Elway or Terrell Davis (each of whom earned an MVP) is NOT on those rosters, you're saying the Broncos still win the Super Bowl?

 

And that's somehow not as offensive to you as 2 pounds-per-square-inch? 

[JerodMayo51]

Four tainted titles.

Charles Hailey is that you? Lol

[amfootball]

Charles Hailey is that you? Lol

Have to love Hailey. Does that mean the first 3 have double asterixes? One for spygate even though videotaping was legal then and deflategate?  ;)

[Bad Morty]

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/02/05/hurley-failed-deflategate-accusations-means-its-time-for-irsay-pagano-to-be-banned-from-nfl/

[JerodMayo51]

Have to love Hailey. Does that mean the first 3 have double asterixes? One for spygate even though videotaping was legal then and deflategate? ;)

Maybe the Pats can start putting asterisks on their helmets like college players.. its so hard to keep track of them all

[Clem-Dog]

Where do you people come from? Some of the comments posted are so ridiculous.

Making inferences is all we can do at this point.

Expand on "you people"?

[18Manning]

Making inferences is all we can do at this point.

Expand on "you people"?

 

Actually, I misread your post. I thought you said because the QBs for the Colts and Ravens had small, weak hands they would become obsolete. I thought "that's ridiculous, never shook the hand of Luck, but I would guess as he's a pretty big QB, his hands and strength are fine."  

[18Manning]

Making inferences is all we can do at this point.

Expand on "you people"?

 

Assuming you had said what I thought you said, "you people" meaning people that come up with totally unbelievable posts. There are many such posts in this forum.

[dw49]

http://broncotalk.net/2008/05/1485/broncos-blog/spygate-stirring-up-denver-broncos-cap-infractions-from-the-1990s/

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28969-2004Sep17.html

 

http://overthecap.com/nfl-salary-cap-super-bowl-champions-part/

 

 

I've done some reading up on denver's salary cap violations. It seems like the general consensus was that it (deferred payments to Davis and Elway) was done because of a cash flow problem resulting from a new stadium. I posted 3 articles ... two backing this up and one saying it gave Denver a big advantage. 

[dw49]

So if either John Elway or Terrell Davis (each of whom earned an MVP) is NOT on those rosters, you're saying the Broncos still win the Super Bowl?

 

And that's somehow not as offensive to you as 2 pounds-per-square-inch? 

 

 

I'll say this to you because you are reasonable. There are a lot of people that really do believe that the deferred payments were made because of a cash flow problem. I posted some links to that premise above. In any event , there is no way the Broncos would have been without Elway or Davis. I'm sure they could have made a couple of WAY , WAY less significant cuts if they needed to do so. I really don't remember that team as a star studded team that should have a major problems getting within the cap. 

[amfootball]

I'll say this to you because you are reasonable. There are a lot of people that really do believe that the deferred payments were made because of a cash flow problem. I posted some links to that premise above. In any event , there is no way the Broncos would have been without Elway or Davis. I'm sure they could have made a couple of WAY , WAY less significant cuts if they needed to do so. I really don't remember that team as a star studded team that should have a major problems getting within the cap. 

They won that first SB by the slimmest of margins over GB. Have to think a few player cuts here and there might have made a difference in the outcome.

[Dustin]

So if either John Elway or Terrell Davis (each of whom earned an MVP) is NOT on those rosters, you're saying the Broncos still win the Super Bowl?

 

And that's somehow not as offensive to you as 2 pounds-per-square-inch? 

 

The Broncos won a Super Bowl while Davis was on his rookie contract, sooooo yeah. 

[-JJ-]

http://broncotalk.net/2008/05/1485/broncos-blog/spygate-stirring-up-denver-broncos-cap-infractions-from-the-1990s/

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28969-2004Sep17.html

 

http://overthecap.com/nfl-salary-cap-super-bowl-champions-part/

 

 

I've done some reading up on denver's salary cap violations. It seems like the general consensus was that it (deferred payments to Davis and Elway) was done because of a cash flow problem resulting from a new stadium. I posted 3 articles ... two backing this up and one saying it gave Denver a big advantage. 

Good investigation. You're hired.

[Gramz]

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/02/05/hurley-failed-deflategate-accusations-means-its-time-for-irsay-pagano-to-be-banned-from-nfl/

 

 

[Football Fan]

I'm sure many Colts fans who jumped to convict without evidence feel that it would be better for the whole mess to just go away.

 

The Commissioner's Report, and the findings from the investigation can't come out fast enough.

 

This playing it back and forth in the media on TV, newspapers, social media and so on  is really getting tiring.  

 

Maybe it's been a big tadoo about nothing, or maybe there is some substance and validity behind the accusations and investigation at hand.   I have read so many reports, and spins, and comments from big names in the NFL,  which btw are just comments and opinions.  Everyone has an opinion.   Doesn't mean their opinion is the true fact.

 

I can't wait till this is over and behind us, whatever the outcome.

I am sure you're not alone among Colts fans. 

 

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/02/05/hurley-failed-deflategate-accusations-means-its-time-for-irsay-pagano-to-be-banned-from-nfl/

 

Many Colts fans have been unfair to the Patriots. Maybe this story will lead to Irsay and Pagano being banned for life from the NFL? Crazy?  Crazier than the posts about losing draft picks, Belichick being suspended, Brady being suspended, a new AFC Championship game between the Colts and Ravens...

 

What goes around sometimes comes around.

[dw49]

They won that first SB by the slimmest of margins over GB. Have to think a few player cuts here and there might have made a difference in the outcome.

 

 

Or they could possibly have structured contracts differently and not had to cut players they wanted to keep. We just don't know everything involved in that to try to say what if any competitive advantage there was. Your game vs the Rams was not exactly a "blow out." I think a reasonable person would say that with the information we have , we really don't know if either of those SB's were affected by rules violations. 

[amfootball]

Or they could possibly have structured contracts differently and not had to cut players they wanted to keep. We just don't know everything involved in that to try to say what if any competitive advantage there was. Your game vs the Rams was not exactly a "blow out." I think a reasonable person would say that with the information we have , we really don't know if either of those SB's were affected by rules violations. 

Except in 2001, 2003, 2004 it was not illegal to videotape from the sideline. It did not become illegal until 2006.

 

In terms of Denver, sure they may have done other things but they chose not to and cheated the cap. And here is the rub. One could make the case that this year's SB was decided by back up DBs. When Jeremy Lane left the game his replacement Tharold was horrific. Brady tooled on him the whole game. When Kyle Arrington was benched his replacement was undrafted rookie FA Butler who made several plays in the fourth quarter including the game saving interception. Championships are won by the slimmest of margins with role players often having a big role in the outcome.

[dw49]

Good investigation. You're hired.

 

 

I do remember when they did Elway's last contract , it was public information that he received some ownership in the team . I wonder why it took until 2001 and 2004 (there were 2 separate fines and penalties) to figure out they violated the cap. I guess it was some big  long drawn out investigation.

[dw49]

Except in 2001, 2003, 2004 it was not illegal to videotape from the sideline. It did not become illegal until 2006.

 

In terms of Denver, sure they may have done other things but they chose not to and cheated the cap. And here is the rub. One could make the case that this year's SB was decided by back up DBs. When Jeremy Lane left the game his replacement Tharold was horrific. Brady tooled on him the whole game. When Kyle Arrington was benched his replacement was undrafted rookie FA Butler who made several plays in the fourth quarter including the game saving interception. Championships are won by the slimmest of margins with role players often having a big role in the outcome.

 

 

Maybe they didn't think they were cheating the cap ? It was all there in black and white and like I just said above , I remember it being said that Elway received some ownership in the team . Too hard for me to really debate this point as I don't know any of the pertinent details. Just like we don't know what was on the tapes that the commish thought better to destroy. No doubt they something wrong but other than that I have no idea. What I responded to was remarks by posters inferring that Denver "NEEDED " to cheat to have both Elway and Davis on the team. I thought and still do think that's unfounded .

[amfootball]

Maybe they didn't think they were cheating the cap ? It was all there in black and white and like I just said above , I remember it being said that Elway received some ownership in the team . Too hard for me to really debate this point as I don't know any of the pertinent details. Just like we don't know what was on the tapes that the commish thought better to destroy. No doubt they something wrong but other than that I have no idea. What I responded to was remarks by posters inferring that Denver "NEEDED " to cheat to have both Elway and Davis on the team. I thought and still do think that's unfounded .

Yeah, I read quite a bit on it and still don't quite get all the details of it. But the main point I was making is that players 23-53 often decide championship runs so cheating the cap IMO is a much bigger deal than a rule violation about camera location or pumping crowd noise, etc. It effects the make up of the team.

[hawkeyes]

The ONLY football that was significantly low was in the Colts' hands, and Jackson said that there was nothing wrong with the ball when he intercepted it.

If you can't at least admit that it sounds suspicious, then I don't know what to tell you .

 

If that is the one of dozen different stories you wish to believe so be it ... I personally don't buy that version of the events to be that of which actually transpired.

[bababooey]

I'm sure many Colts fans who jumped to convict without evidence feel that it would be better for the whole mess to just go away.

 

I am sure you're not alone among Colts fans. 

 

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/02/05/hurley-failed-deflategate-accusations-means-its-time-for-irsay-pagano-to-be-banned-from-nfl/

 

Many Colts fans have been unfair to the Patriots. Maybe this story will lead to Irsay and Pagano being banned for life from the NFL? Crazy?  Crazier than the posts about losing draft picks, Belichick being suspended, Brady being suspended, a new AFC Championship game between the Colts and Ravens...

 

What goes around sometimes comes around.

Having a tough time grasping how Irsay and Pagano could be banned for life when there are 11 underinflated Patriot footballs in addition to the fact the Colts have never cheated before...