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Patriots being investigated for Deflating footballs.....(Mega Merge)


RealityIsLuck

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I hear you but spygate was 7 years ago and ball inflation is not anywhere in the same ball park in terms of an offense. I do think they get fined, probably heavily but not sure much is warranted beyond that. They have not broken any rules since 2007 and this one is not major according to the NFLs own rule book. I guess we will see. I agree it is a poor look again and no Pats fan is happy about it. I am quite angry actually and want answers from Bill and Brady but we do need the rest of the investigation to come out. It is very difficult to prove tampering.

Cheating is cheating. So cheating to a lesser degree is OK in your eyes? They haven't been cheating in 7 years! Not till last Sunday? I have some beach front property for sale here in Indiana and I would give you a real good deal on it. How about it? Property taxes are real cheap here compared to the New England area.

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I've been driving and listening to multiple stations, and people/guests all morning.  Many interesting things have come to light I'll recap here in one post (haven't read all posts her so maybe it was coverd by previous, but not likely all these items.

 

1. Colts were already suspicious.  On an interception of the Pats by Mike Adams in Nov, a Colts equipment manger noticed the ball at reduced pressure back then!  So when DQ intercepted, it was checked by equipment guy immediately.  That's when Coach Pagano and Grigson were informed, then the league was informed.

 

2. Every ball, Colts and Patriots, were tested for air pressure 2 hours and 15 minutes before the game.  Every one was determined to be at 13 psi +/- .5 psi.  This is totally acceptable.

 

3. At halftime, all balls we rechecked, and all Colts balls were within spec.  11 of the 12 Patriots balls were 2 lbs below minimum.  That means 11 Patriots balls at 10.5 psi

 

4. All out of compliance ball should have been brought back up to spec at halftime when they were found to be flawed.

 

5. This isn't about whether the Colts could have won the game or not, this is about integrity of the game.  Baseball is dead serious about such matters (IE: Pete Rose, the hit king). We'll see how serious the NFL is about maintaining any integrity in their sport.

 

6. Somebody is accountable if all allegations prove true, and it can't be the pimply faced kid toting around the ball bag.

Good summary and jives with everything I heard over the lunch hour.  

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I've been driving and listening to multiple stations, and people/guests all morning.  Many interesting things have come to light I'll recap here in one post (haven't read all posts her so maybe it was coverd by previous, but not likely all these items.

 

1. Colts were already suspicious.  On an interception of the Pats by Mike Adams in Nov, a Colts equipment manger noticed the ball at reduced pressure back then!  So when DQ intercepted, it was checked by equipment guy immediately.  That's when Coach Pagano and Grigson were informed, then the league was informed.

 

2. Every ball, Colts and Patriots, were tested for air pressure 2 hours and 15 minutes before the game.  Every one was determined to be at 13 psis +/- .5 psi.  This is totally acceptable.

 

3. At halftime, all balls we rechecked, and all Colts balls were within spec.  11 of the 12 Patriots balls were 2 lbs below minimum.  That means 11 Patriots balls at 10.5 psi

 

4. All out of compliance ball should have been brought back up to spec at halftime when they were found to be flawed.

 

5. This isn't about whether the Colts could have won the game or not, this is about integrity of the game.  Baseball is dead serious about such matters (IE: Pete Rose, the hit king). We'll see how serious the NFL is about maintaining any integrity in their sport.

 

6. Somebody is accountable if all allegations prove true, and it can't be the pimply faced kid toting around the ball bag.

 

To the bolded, I heard that the balls were reinflated at halftime, then checked again right after the game. I haven't heard whether they were deflated again.

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I have no clue.  I'm many years out of practice in my physics.  My response to derakynn was about the weather and how the footballs deflated because of the air temperature outside of the football.  If the patriots footballs deflated because of the weather, then it stands to reason that the Colts footballs would have also deflated.  So if you measured them both and the Patriots footballs were 2 PSI less than the required levels and the Cotls were within the required parameters, then clearly the weather did not have the drastic effect suggested by some defending the Patriots intentionally deflating the football.

Oh, gotcha.  They were obviously tampered with if 11 of 12 balls were 2 PSI under required limit, and Colts weren't.  There were quite a few players tweeting about this also, Mark Brunell said Brady would have definitely been able to tell just by feel, so would the refs, and any ordinary person for that matter.

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The Commissioner’s powers under this section (UNFAIR ACTS) include the imposition of monetary fines and draft choice forfeitures, suspension of persons involved, and, if appropriate, the reversal of a game’s result or the rescheduling of a game, either from the beginning or from the point at which the extraordinary act occurred.

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I'm at work...what's he saying?

NFL needs to make a decision before the teams take off for arizona, you can say "on to seattle" all you want when its funny and youre at home but not on media day on monday, tuesday, wednesday. you can't suspend him for 2 meaningless games next season. the nfl knows everything already they just don't know how they are going to deal with this.

 

Said how air pressure is not an issue, all the balls were checked and approved correctly. dispelled anything about the balls deflating naturally and with weather. talked about thank God the game wasn't close, the colts even admitted it they woulda still gotten smoked. the nfl is thankful this wasnt a close game.

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Every time a player gets called for holding, facemask etc, it is a violation of the rules.  Technicaly, it is the same as this violation of the rules.  Likewise, when a player gets away with something it is a violation of the rules.  Nobody ever calls a player a cheater for attempting to gain an advantage by holding.  Is he violating the rules?  Of course.  Is he hoping to gain an advantage by holding.  Of course. 

 

I don't see this as a big deal.  The Colts were outscored by a greater margin after the underinflated balls were discovered.  In my opinion, This (underinflated balls) did not help and are not the reason we lost Sunday.  In retrospect, I would bet that the Pats are sorry they did this because they got caught.  How is that any different than a player getting away with PI, holding, facemask, contact beyond 5 yards or any other violation of the NFL rules? 

 

Bovine excrement. Penalties during play are not cheating. Purposefully and deliberately breaking the rules is cheating. 

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Interesting fact: the issue was rectified at the beginning of the 2nd half. The Pats scored 17 points in the first half and 28 in the 2nd half when they were playing with properly inflated balls. So there was absolutely no advantage. In fact, they played worse with under-inflated balls. Point differential may very well have been even greater had they played with properly inflated balls all game long.

Also, Rodgers has stated that he likes to push the boundaries in regards to over-inflating his team's balls. And the Buccaneers did something similar during their SB win. So did the Vikings:

http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2015/01/green_bay_minnesota_tampa_bay.html

This is a league wide issue. Many teams have done and continue to do this. It's simply personal preference. Some teams like under-inflation, some like over-inflation. They all push the boundaries.

This is a non issue.

its against the rules and cheating

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Interesting fact: the issue was rectified at the beginning of the 2nd half. The Pats scored 17 points in the first half and 28 in the 2nd half when they were playing with properly inflated balls. So there was absolutely no advantage. In fact, they played worse with under-inflated balls. Point differential may very well have been even greater had they played with properly inflated balls all game long.

 

Also, Rodgers has stated that he likes to push the boundaries in regards to over-inflating his team's balls. And the Buccaneers did something similar during their SB win. So did the Vikings:

 

http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2015/01/green_bay_minnesota_tampa_bay.html

 

This is a league wide issue. Many teams have done and continue to do this. It's simply personal preference. Some teams like under-inflation, some like over-inflation. They all push the boundaries.

 

This is a non issue.

do you still believe in santa too?

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I love how Patriot fans and players/Belichek just laugh it off like it's a big conspiracy theory or something, or come up with the excuse, you're just mad cause we beat you so bad, or even like it would've mattered?  SO, the point is that you cheated, and that's against the rules...  Doesn't matter the result of the game.

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I was just thinking the same thing.  The Dirty tricks were unnecessary but were the downfall of that administration.  

It doesn't look good for the Patriots organization.

 

Another question that's bothering me.  Was it the Indy reporter that was the first reported this? Who told him? The NFL has kept things hush hush before.  How was this made public?  Not saying it's not a worthy story.  I'm just wondering

 

It was Kravitz, and I'd guess someone in the Colts organization tipped him late.    The Colts were alerted during the game.   The word got to Grigson.     He alerted the NFL to suspicions....   and then everything started to move....     so my guess is the Colts tipped Kravitz....

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do you still believe in santa too?

 

No, I believe in facts. Something this thread greatly lacks.

 

In addition to the link I posted earlier, which showed that several teams have done the same thing currently and in the past, here is Terry Bradshaw talking about it in his book:

 

Most fans don’t know it, but before the game we would doctor the footballs that would be used. Until the season of 2000 it was up to the home team to provide twenty-four game balls to the officials for each game. A brand-new NFL football straight from the factory is not easy to throw or catch. It’s rock hard and very slippery. So in the privacy of the locker room before the game, players would take the footballs and rub them and scrub them to remove the glaze, or deflate them, then pump them up with air real big to stretch the leather. On some teams the kickers would put them through a cycle in the dryer. Some teams did this, but naturally not the Steelers, because we were righteous folk who would never stretch the rules, and when these other teams—not the Steelers—were finished, they would put them back in the plastic wrapping and right back in the box. Some teams—who were not the Steelers—after the officials had checked and approved the game balls, would let out a couple of pound of air to make it easier for the quarterback to grip it. A little less air would make the ball spongier. It was what might be called a perceived advantage-both teams played with the same ball.

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=wuWJhkUqRKEC&lpg=PA58&vq=doctor&pg=PA67#v=onepage&q=doctor&f=true

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Interesting fact: the issue was rectified at the beginning of the 2nd half. The Pats scored 17 points in the first half and 28 in the 2nd half when they were playing with properly inflated balls. So there was absolutely no advantage. In fact, they played worse with under-inflated balls. Point differential may very well have been even greater had they played with properly inflated balls all game long.

 

Also, Rodgers has stated that he likes to push the boundaries in regards to over-inflating his team's balls. And the Buccaneers did something similar during their SB win. So did the Vikings:

 

http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2015/01/green_bay_minnesota_tampa_bay.html

 

This is a league wide issue. Many teams have done and continue to do this. It's simply personal preference. Some teams like under-inflation, some like over-inflation. They all push the boundaries.

 

This is a non issue.

 

Obviously it's a  personal preference and I have no clue how widespread it is in the league to change the ball after it's been approved as within specs.

 

Sounds like the argument kids make "Everybody does it"

 

It's not a non issue.  There are rules and procedures in place for this and that means it is an issue.

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It was Kravitz, and I'd guess someone in the Colts organization tipped him late.    The Colts were alerted during the game.   The word got to Grigson.     He alerted the NFL to suspicions....   and then everything started to move....     so my guess is the Colts tipped Kravitz....

That's interesting to me.  Maybe wanted to make sure this was not swept under the rug

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 colts injured party get any picks  from the pats. 

Well hopefully it is a 1st round pick!  Then I wouldn't be so mad afterall :) lol 

Kidding, yes I would, the team needs serious repricussion for cheating multiple times.  Sounds like Colts were already aware of this before, when Mike Adams picked off Brady last game and the staff thought the ball was a little deflated.

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Obviously it's a  personal preference and I have no clue how widespread it is in the league to change the ball after it's been approved as within specs.

 

Sounds like the argument kids make "Everybody does it"

 

It's not a non issue.  There are rules and procedures in place for this and that means it is an issue.

Vi7ejoow_normal.pngKevin Clark ✔ @KevinClarkWSJ

NFL head coaches here at Senior Bowl seem downright offended that people think this deflation stuff is a big deal.

 

Sounds to me like it's pretty widespread and a non issue.

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Against the rules? Yes.

 

Cheating? Absolutely not. By very definition of the word.

 

cheat

 verb \ˈchēt\

: to break a rule or law usually to gain an advantage at something

 

There was no advantage. Therefore it is not cheating.

 

 

So, Belichick is the greatest mind in the NFL, right? He broke the rules, but there's no advantage? Why?

 

This is nonsense. The Pats cheated. Again.

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It was Kravitz, and I'd guess someone in the Colts organization tipped him late.    The Colts were alerted during the game.   The word got to Grigson.     He alerted the NFL to suspicions....   and then everything started to move....     so my guess is the Colts tipped Kravitz....

 

Yeah, Grigson or someone high up in the Colts administration leaked this.

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For the same reason premeditated murder carries a harsher sentence than manslaughter.  

Both are murder.  If it's the "same reason", then you agree "holding" is cheating.  And anyone caught holding is a "cheater".

 

By your analogy, a player who physically harms another while committing a rules infraction would be guilty of a greater cheating?

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