Cap space in 2015

[BProland85]

Anyone know what our cap space will look like? Also, can we cut players like Gosder Cherilus and LaRon Landry without much cap ramifications?

[12isthenew18]

We have for 2014 we have 16,190,335 rolling over and 35,121,342. before cuts so after cuts we mgiht talk 60m 

[12isthenew18]

We can't cut gosder but landry yes same as thomas, louis, toler, walden, jean-francois so the dumpster fire that is the 2013 colts free agent class

[COLTS449]

This may be unpopular but with the space we have and the cap continuing to rise, I want us to bring in Justin Houston.

[12isthenew18]

I agree mainly because we could have 65m in cap after cuts

[BProland85]

We can't cut gosder but landry yes same as thomas, louis, toler, walden, jean-francois so the dumpster fire that is the 2013 colts free agent class

I would much rather cut Cherilus over Toler and Walden

[12isthenew18]

I would much rather cut Cherilus over Toler and Walden

we cant we lose 2m in cap and nearly 9m in dead money

[NewColtsFan]

We can't cut gosder but landry yes same as thomas, louis, toler, walden, jean-francois so the dumpster fire that is the 2013 colts free agent class

 

I don't think we're going to cut RJF, or Toler, or Walden....  

 

So,  I think someone just put out your dumpster fire....

[COLTS449]

RJF has been really good this year. He isn't and shouldn't go anywhere. The only one of those guys who should be cut is 30. Toler has been good too for the most part of the season. I wouldn't mind to see DQ cut. Does anyone know the cap situation with him?

[loudnproudcolt]

We have for 2014 we have 16,190,335 rolling over and 35,121,342. before cuts so after cuts we mgiht talk 60m 

 

Are you sure we have the 16M rolling over into 2015? Usually when I look at Over the Cap and their calculator for the year, I assume the number they give, $35,121,342 is our cap space with the money rolled over into it.

 

Now when I go to 2014, I get a Total Cap Number: $122,915,126, so money would have rolled over, but like I said, I would have thought it was incorporated in the 2015 number. I would love to find out it has not been and we will have 50M plus cuts to resign our draft picks and look into FA. Thanks for the answer!

[loudnproudcolt]

DQ cannot be cut. We would absorb huge dead money and get no cap relief for the year.

[Superman]

we cant we lose 2m in cap and nearly 9m in dead money

 

 

DQ cannot be cut. We would absorb huge dead money and get no cap relief for the year.

 

Both of those players can be cut. Just because it wouldn't save cap space doesn't mean it can't or won't be done. If you stop looking at cap space as a one year value, and start looking at it as combined equity, so to speak, you'll start seeing this differently. The dead money that would come from cutting either of those players is money that's already been spent. If you keep them and spend more, then over the course of the next several years, you wind up with less cap space. Taking a one year hit is preferable to doubling down on bad money.

 

That said, I don't think either of those players will be cut. The opinion of fans isn't necessarily accurate. For instance, a year ago, people wanted RJF, Walden and Toler cut. Those three players have been very good this year, despite continued calls from the peanut gallery.

[Superman]

Are you sure we have the 16M rolling over into 2015? Usually when I look at Over the Cap and their calculator for the year, I assume the number they give, $35,121,342 is our cap space with the money rolled over into it.

 

Now when I go to 2014, I get a Total Cap Number: $122,915,126, so money would have rolled over, but like I said, I would have thought it was incorporated in the 2015 number. I would love to find out it has not been and we will have 50M plus cuts to resign our draft picks and look into FA. Thanks for the answer!

 

According to Spotrac, we have almost $11m in cap space remaining in 2014. That's what we'd rollover, presumably (you don't technically have to roll over all of your remaining cap). Also according to Spotrac, we have just over $107m committed in 2015. 

 

If the cap stays at $133m, we'd have $26m + $11m in rollover, for a total of $37m in cap space. If the cap goes up to $140m (per projections from last offseason), we'd have $44m in cap space. That's before any cuts or other adjustments.

[dw49]

Both of those players can be cut. Just because it wouldn't save cap space doesn't mean it can't or won't be done. If you stop looking at cap space as a one year value, and start looking at it as combined equity, so to speak, you'll start seeing this differently. The dead money that would come from cutting either of those players is money that's already been spent. If you keep them and spend more, then over the course of the next several years, you wind up with less cap space. Taking a one year hit is preferable to doubling down on bad money.

 

That said, I don't think either of those players will be cut. The opinion of fans isn't necessarily accurate. For instance, a year ago, people wanted RJF, Walden and Toler cut. Those three players have been very good this year, despite continued calls from the peanut gallery.

 

 

Not sure I totally understand what you are saying here. You're right when you say it can be done but the odds of D Jackson getting cut are the same as him losing pretty much all his football skills. He signed what is really a 2 year contract . Now if he get's hurt , then the cut makes sense as you wouldn't want him for 5 mill in 2016. Maybe I'm goofy but if you have a 5.4 cap hit by cutting him and he costs you 5.8 for 2015 , doesn't he just have to be worth more than a vet min. player to justify keeping him. The poster said you "can't cut him" which is technically wrong but is really pretty realistic. I also don't know what you mean by "doubling down on bad money." Does that mean keeping Jackson and signing another expensive free agent to take his place ? Other than that I don't know how cutting him in 2015 rather than 2016 really saves you in cap space down the road ?

[Dark Superman]

We can't cut gosder but landry yes same as thomas, louis, toler, walden, jean-francois so the dumpster fire that is the 2013 colts free agent class

Why would we cut Walden, Jean Francoise, and Toler? Thomas will most likely be cut.. Maybe even RICHARDSON. I don't see Cherilus leaving unless we draft a tackle high in next years draft. Louis came here on a cheap one year deal I believe.

[Dark Superman]

According to Spotrac, we have almost $11m in cap space remaining in 2014. That's what we'd rollover, presumably (you don't technically have to roll over all of your remaining cap). Also according to Spotrac, we have just over $107m committed in 2015. 

 

If the cap stays at $133m, we'd have $26m + $11m in rollover, for a total of $37m in cap space. If the cap goes up to $140m (per projections from last offseason), we'd have $44m in cap space. That's before any cuts or other adjustments.

I do expect the cap to go up.. And for us to make a few cuts along the way. I think we are sitting in a very good position right now.

[Dark Superman]

DQ cannot be cut. We would absorb huge dead money and get no cap relief for the year.

Any player can be cut at any time.

[Dark Superman]

This may be unpopular but with the space we have and the cap continuing to rise, I want us to bring in Justin Houston.

Bring in Houston and Mack. Let's go for it all..

[Dark Superman]

I would much rather cut Cherilus over Toler and Walden

Only if we have someone on the roster to replace him with.. I can't deal with the line getting any worse.

[Superman]

Not sure I totally understand what you are saying here. You're right when you say it can be done but the odds of D Jackson getting cut are the same as him losing pretty much all his football skills. He signed what is really a 2 year contract . Now if he get's hurt , then the cut makes sense as you wouldn't want him for 5 mill in 2016. Maybe I'm goofy but if you have a 5.4 cap hit by cutting him and he costs you 5.8 for 2015 , doesn't he just have to be worth more than a vet min. player to justify keeping him. The poster said you "can't cut him" which is technically wrong but is really pretty realistic. I also don't know what you mean by "doubling down on bad money." Does that mean keeping Jackson and signing another expensive free agent to take his place ? Other than that I don't know how cutting him in 2015 rather than 2016 really sees you cap space down the road ?

 

After looking at Jackson's deal again, I should retract. His deal includes a roster bonus to be paid in 2015, with a minimum base salary. The bonus was reported as guaranteed as of signing (I think that's against CBA rules, but maybe it isn't). So releasing him doesn't save any cash, just $870K.

 

My point applies better to Cherilus. Releasing him would increase his cap hit from $6.9m to $8.7m (unless we did a post-June 1 release, in which case the cap hit would be $2.9m in 2015, and $5.8m in 2016). But that $8.7m has already been spent, and will eventually hit the cap. Releasing him would save $4m in cash, and that's $4m that will never hit the cap. Recognizing that you don't have to save cap in this present year in order to eventually save cap, that might still be an acceptable course of action, especially if you can absorb the one year increase. I doubt Cherilus is released, but I don't think the net cap adjustment is the reason why. 

[Dark Superman]

I hope we bring back Cribbs.

[Superman]

Bring in Houston and Mack. Let's go for it all..

 

Who is Mack?

[Superman]

Why would we cut Walden, Jean Francoise, and Toler? Thomas will most likely be cut.. Maybe even RICHARDSON. I don't see Cherilus leaving unless we draft a tackle high in next years draft. Louis came here on a cheap one year deal I believe.

 

Richardson's salary is fully guaranteed, with no offsets. It's unlikely that he'd be released.

[3nk1du]

Bring in Houston and Mack. Let's go for it all..

I think KC has no cap room for Houston even if they tag him they would be obligated to cut JC, TH, that would mean 12M but that's not gonna happen but we have to play smart because Antony Castonzo is waiting to be paid, T.Y. is gonna demand top money, we may spend less money with the TEs they are playing good but not enough to gain a big contract, and Andrew Luck isn't stupid so he is gonna command a wealthy contract i'm thinking like Rodgers or Flacco but he is gonna want to keep some pieces, we might have the chance to bring Houston because Wayne contract is gonna end this season and if he wants to return he is gonna take a team-friendly contract , also we are still hoping to Mathis to return but we don't really know if he is gonna come as good as the last season, so i'm on favor to bring Houston if we can have Mathis on a good shape(even if he isn't as good as he was last season) and Houston we would be more likely to go to the SB the next year.

[COLTS449]

Who is Mack?

 

Alex Mack I assume.

[Superman]

Alex Mack I assume.

 

Maybe so, but he signed a long term deal with the Browns. And he's out with a broken leg, so that wouldn't be a home run kind of acquisition anyway.

 

Can't be talking about Khalil Mack... idk

[dw49]

After looking at Jackson's deal again, I should retract. His deal includes a roster bonus to be paid in 2015, with a minimum base salary. The bonus was reported as guaranteed as of signing (I think that's against CBA rules, but maybe it isn't). So releasing him doesn't save any cash, just $870K.

 

My point applies better to Cherilus. Releasing him would increase his cap hit from $6.9m to $8.7m (unless we did a post-June 1 release, in which case the cap hit would be $2.9m in 2015, and $5.8m in 2016). But that $8.7m has already been spent, and will eventually hit the cap. Releasing him would save $4m in cash, and that's $4m that will never hit the cap. Recognizing that you don't have to save cap in this present year in order to eventually save cap, that might still be an acceptable course of action, especially if you can absorb the one year increase. I doubt Cherilus is released, but I don't think the net cap adjustment is the reason why. 

Yeah .. unless Jackson suffers an injury or falls off a cliff . he's a Colt in 2015. But then odds are he's heavily " favored " to be gone in 2016. So not a horrible deal if he just plays OK. Cherlius contract on the other hand was different from most Grigson wrote up. He pretty much committed to either him playing 4 years in Indy or paying the consequences. Different from almost all the others , it's backloaded heavily into years 3 and 4. Look at his deal... he only had 1 mill base 1st 2 years and cap hits of 3.9 both years. Cutting him in 2015 would only save Jim Irsay money. The only positive effect I could see is it would get a very bad deal off the books.. done and over with. Kind of like being relieved from bad constipation ? 2016 would be IMO the first year they would consider jettisoning him. I also think this is a matter of how serious these injuries are. Cherlius was pretty good in protection prior to this year. So we do have a "wild card" in this one. There is no way they are going to let Luck have a turnstile RT for the next two years. Maybe this one is on the team doctors as we read that a lot of teams stayed away from him. Hopefully he gets a little healthier and can be at least serviceable for the next 2 years.

[Boiler_Colt]

The only FA I really really want is Mike Iupati. Other than him, I'm not sure who else will be out there that I would want prior to any cuts. I think we mostly re-sign our own and maybe bring in one marquee free agent. Justin Houston would be great, but he is not going to leave KC. I think it's more likely that another pass rusher is picked up via the draft.

[Dark Superman]

Who is Mack?

Center for Cleveland.

[Dark Superman]

Richardson's salary is fully guaranteed, with no offsets. It's unlikely that he'd be released.

Well then.. Here's to a miracle we build a line before next season begins.

[COLTS449]

Well then.. Here's to a miracle we build a line before next season begins.

 

We could sign Nick Hardwick. He's from Indy, and would really help improve the line. I think Thornton will still be the starting RG next season, but if we stick with Harrison at C, I'd love to see us upgrade the G position with a guy like Iupati or Carpenter.

[3nk1du]

Well then.. Here's to a miracle we build a line before next season begins.

We have invested on the OL but not as much as Dallas (who imo have the best OL), Jack has played well but Hugh and Gosder are playing below-average i think we aren't fair with Harrison he was playing well, but he hasn't have the support that he needs from the RG and RT, he still a Rookie but he has show potential i think he have a higher cell than A.Q., what really bothers me is that Holmes is not even active and he was supposed to be the C of the future, if we invest i think it's gonna be on a RG we are tied with Gosder, and we have multiple options at C, also the left side is good so next year i don't think we draft high a OLineman, we could get a quality RG but it would be soo much invested on the Line i that could be a problem with the kind of talent we have to sing on the next couple of years( T.Y., Fleener, Allen, Castonzo,Luck), i see us drafting a OLineman on/after the 3rd round not before the defense needs more help although we have to protect the best player on the team at all cost.

[Valpo2004]

Lets keep in mind that we have some quite a few decisions to make as well.  Because of Luck's 5th year option my guess is that they are going to try to make extending TY a priority.  So the extension may take up some cap space.  Might also try to nail down an extention on Allen.

 

Reggie and the Colts will have to make a decision.  He has to decide if he's retiring which is up to him, but if he chooses to not retire do we re-sign him in the short term? 

 

There is also a long list of lower tier players that we'll need to look at.  I think Butler needs a new contract for example.

 

Cherilus I think needs to stay on.  But we can look at getting rid of some of the other 2013 free agents if we determine we don't need them.   

[Dark Superman]

We could sign Nick Hardwick. He's from Indy, and would really help improve the line. I think Thornton will still be the starting RG next season, but if we stick with Harrison at C, I'd love to see us upgrade the G position with a guy like Iupati or Carpenter.

How old is Hardwick?

[COLTS449]

How old is Hardwick?

 

Good point. He has to be in his 30's. He's been in the league 8 or 9 years. He's also going to be coming off an injury. I don't remember the exact injury, but he's been out since like the 2nd or 3rd week. So yeah, now that I think about it he probably wouldn't be a good pickup.

[NewColtsFan]

Center for Cleveland.

 

He signed a long-term deal with the Browns....   he won't be a free agent.

[Dark Superman]

He signed a long-term deal with the Browns....   he won't be a free agent.

I forgot about that..

[ColtStronger]

We can't cut gosder but landry yes same as thomas, louis, toler, walden, jean-francois so the dumpster fire that is the 2013 colts free agent class

You are crazy sir!  Toler and RJF have been great this year.  Gosder hasn't been playing well because of an injury, but I expect him to bounce back soon.  Landry also.  He had a good game against the Jags, but it's one game.  Cant wait to see him continue to prove his haters wrong.  Walden brings fire to our defense.  He is the only one (I have seen besides Redding) who is a no nonsense guy.  He wont take crap from nobody.  We do need people like him to stand up and be an enforcer.  Hopefully his skills do improve a bit though.  As for Louis and Thomas, sure go ahead and dump them lol

[ColtStronger]

I think KC has no cap room for Houston even if they tag him they would be obligated to cut JC, TH, that would mean 12M but that's not gonna happen but we have to play smart because Antony Castonzo is waiting to be paid, T.Y. is gonna demand top money, we may spend less money with the TEs they are playing good but not enough to gain a big contract, and Andrew Luck isn't stupid so he is gonna command a wealthy contract i'm thinking like Rodgers or Flacco but he is gonna want to keep some pieces, we might have the chance to bring Houston because Wayne contract is gonna end this season and if he wants to return he is gonna take a team-friendly contract , also we are still hoping to Mathis to return but we don't really know if he is gonna come as good as the last season, so i'm on favor to bring Houston if we can have Mathis on a good shape(even if he isn't as good as he was last season) and Houston we would be more likely to go to the SB the next year.

Mathis resigned after his injury.  He'll be back next year!

[Superman]

Yeah .. unless Jackson suffers an injury or falls off a cliff . he's a Colt in 2015. But then odds are he's heavily " favored " to be gone in 2016. So not a horrible deal if he just plays OK. Cherlius contract on the other hand was different from most Grigson wrote up. He pretty much committed to either him playing 4 years in Indy or paying the consequences. Different from almost all the others , it's backloaded heavily into years 3 and 4. Look at his deal... he only had 1 mill base 1st 2 years and cap hits of 3.9 both years. Cutting him in 2015 would only save Jim Irsay money. The only positive effect I could see is it would get a very bad deal off the books.. done and over with. Kind of like being relieved from bad constipation ? 2016 would be IMO the first year they would consider jettisoning him. I also think this is a matter of how serious these injuries are. Cherlius was pretty good in protection prior to this year. So we do have a "wild card" in this one. There is no way they are going to let Luck have a turnstile RT for the next two years. Maybe this one is on the team doctors as we read that a lot of teams stayed away from him. Hopefully he gets a little healthier and can be at least serviceable for the next 2 years.

 

I don't think Cherilus is going anywhere.

 

But the point about not doubling down is that the sooner you get rid of a bad contract, the less it costs you. If there's any desire to get rid of him, then the point is that you're saving $4m against the cap, even though you don't realize those savings right now. It's not just saving Irsay money, because every dollar he spends goes against the cap. That's what I'm talking about when I say you can't look at cap space as a one year thing. It's okay if you don't save money in 2015, if it means you're saving money in 2016 and beyond.