Peyton Manning Voted No.1 By The Players

[BloodyChamp]

No you don't.

You mean there are more similarities between current Manning/Brady and 2010 Favre that I'm missing? You're right then...

[Superman]

If you did, it covered everything. I don't post for you to agree. I post my opinion.

 

And that's fine, there's nothing wrong with that. But I disagree.

[Superman]

I am not sure why people think they belong to tier one.

It's Brady/Manning and the rest.

Stats and performance year after year consistently for 15 years shows that.

Combined 8 SBs. 4 rings. 7 MVPs.

What do we got for Brees/Rodgers ?. Thought so.

 

Here's what I wrote in the QB rankings thread:

 

I just believe that these four guys are the current Mt. Rushmore of NFL QBs, based on several years of top performance, and the ability to make their teams contenders every year. In the past five seasons, there are only two non-playoff seasons among these four, and one was Manning's 2011. These QBs are always the main catalyst for their teams. They might have a bad game here or there, but you know you always have a chance at a championship season with these four guys.

 

(To me, "elite" means superlative, the best of the best, the cream of the crop, the guys who are almost universally regarded as being at the top of the mountain. My group of elites hasn't changed from last year, because I believe that it takes sustained performance over a long time to earn your way into this group. Having a few good games in the playoffs or having really good stats for a couple seasons isn't enough to be elite. This group is, by definition, exclusive, and I think there's a clear distinction between these four guys and everyone else.)

 

 

Just to clarify, if we're talking about total career and overall body of work, then yeah, Brady and Manning are above Rodgers and Brees. I'm not really talking about total career and overall body of work. I'm talking about the QBs who, right now, make their teams contenders, who give their teams a chance to win every week, and without whom, and have shown over a sustained period of time that they can perform at a high level. And there's no way, in my eyes, that Rodgers and Brees don't qualify.

[Superman]

Really? You would rather have Rodgers over Luck?

 

I'm a huge Luck fan, and believe in his potential as a franchise QB. But I still believe Rodgers is so much better right now, and will continue to play at a high level for long enough, that if I had to make the decision, I'd go with Rodgers. 

 

Neither team would make this trade, obviously.

[Superman]

I agree. Rodgers is overrated. He got manhandled 2 straight years by Kap. Will take Luck any day.

 

How did Rodgers get manhandled by Kap? Are QBs on the field at the same time, ever?

 

The Packers defense got destroyed by Kap. In 2013, they gave up the game winning FG with no time on the clock, right after the Packers had tied the game up. In 2012, they gave up 8 million yards and points to the Niners. The Packers put up 31 points in a road playoff game; that's not an offensive shortcoming.

 

It's interesting that you'll acknowledge how the Colts defense was lacking in the Manning years, but then say something like this about Rodgers. 

[Dustin]

You mean there are more similarities between current Manning/Brady and 2010 Favre that I'm missing? 

 

You still don't get it. 

[Shane Bond]

How did Rodgers get manhandled by Kap? Are QBs on the field at the same time, ever?

The Packers defense got destroyed by Kap. In 2013, they gave up the game winning FG with no time on the clock, right after the Packers had tied the game up. In 2012, they gave up 8 million yards and points to the Niners. The Packers put up 31 points in a road playoff game; that's not an offensive shortcoming.

It's interesting that you'll acknowledge how the Colts defense was lacking in the Manning years, but then say something like this about Rodgers.

Isn't he the best player according to you, he should score more to win the game. Not losing over 2 TDs.

I never blindly defend Manning. I don't know why you drag him into this discussion. Putting Aaron Rodgers with Manning/Brady according to me doesn't make sense either the whole career or right now.

[Dustin]

Isn't he the best player according to you, he should score more to win the game. Not losing over 2 TDs.

I never blindly defend Manning. I don't know why you drag him into this discussion. Putting Aaron Rodgers with Manning/Brady according to me doesn't make sense either the whole career or right now.

Was Peyton manhandled by Russel Wilson?

[Superman]

Isn't he the best player according to you, he should score more to win the game. Not losing over 2 TDs.

I never blindly defend Manning. I don't know why you drag him into this discussion. Putting Aaron Rodgers with Manning/Brady according to me doesn't make sense either the whole career or right now.

 

That's a weak argument. You're suggesting that if the team lost, it's the QBs fault, since they just should have scored more points. Even if they scored 31 points on the road against a tough defense. 

 

It's also a double standard, as I mentioned. I didn't accuse you of blindly defending Manning. But you can't lay those Packers losses at Rodgers' feet without undermining any complaint about the Colts' defense in the Manning years. You can't blame Rodgers for the Packers loss, and then defend Manning for the Pats loss in Foxborough in 2013 (which you have done), or the loss to the Ravens in 2012 (which you have done). 

 

If you don't think Rodgers is on the level of Manning or Brady right now -- over the course of the last several seasons -- that's fine. I don't see how you can miss it, seeing as how Rodgers put together the best two year stretch of QBing from 2011-12 in NFL history (up until Manning's 2012-13), and that's after the Packers had a great SB run with a weak offensive line and rushing attack. He's the most efficient passer in the NFL over the last three seasons. No, his career isn't on the level of Brady and Manning yet, but he's only been a starter for six seasons. 

 

That's just a difference of opinion; you don't have to agree with my rankings. But so far, your argument against Rodgers is pretty unconvincing.

[Shane Bond]

Was Peyton manhandled by Russel Wilson?

You don't get it

[Dustin]

You don't get it

I get you are hypocritical.

[Shane Bond]

That's a weak argument. You're suggesting that if the team lost, it's the QBs fault, since they just should have scored more points. Even if they scored 31 points on the road against a tough defense.

It's also a double standard, as I mentioned. I didn't accuse you of blindly defending Manning. But you can't lay those Packers losses at Rodgers' feet without undermining any complaint about the Colts' defense in the Manning years. You can't blame Rodgers for the Packers loss, and then defend Manning for the Pats loss in Foxborough in 2013 (which you have done), or the loss to the Ravens in 2012 (which you have done).

If you don't think Rodgers is on the level of Manning or Brady right now -- over the course of the last several seasons -- that's fine. I don't see how you can miss it, seeing as how Rodgers put together the best two year stretch of QBing from 2011-12 in NFL history (up until Manning's 2012-13), and that's after the Packers had a great SB run with a weak offensive line and rushing attack. He's the most efficient passer in the NFL over the last three seasons. No, his career isn't on the level of Brady and Manning yet, but he's only been a starter for six seasons.

That's just a difference of opinion; you don't have to agree with my rankings. But so far, your argument against Rodgers is pretty unconvincing.

Yeah you don't get my point, how about I say I don't agree with whatever you say.

[Shane Bond]

I get you are hypocritical.

If you call this hypo critical, what would you call your random referring of 2010 Favre.

[Dustin]

If you call this hypo critical, what would you call your random referring of 2010 Favre.

You should look up the definition of hypocritical.

[Shane Bond]

You should look up the definition of hypocritical.

Now you start telling me what I should do

[Dustin]

Now you start telling me what I should do

Yep.

[Superman]

Yeah you don't get my point, how about I say I don't agree with whatever you say.

 

Why don't you try making your point? You know, without the double standards and the flimsy arguments...

 

Your choice, of course. If you want to bow out rather than make a real counter argument, feel free.

[Shane Bond]

Yep.

Keep going

[Dustin]

Keep going

I'm going to bow out, lest your responses lower my IQ any further.

[Shane Bond]

Why don't you try making your point? You know, without the double standards and the flimsy arguments...

Your choice, of course. If you want to bow out rather than make a real counter argument, feel free.

I always stick to point and the discussion unlike you making personal attack and I won't inspite of your baiting.

I have tried to explain, you just don't get it. So I said I disagree and move on. Now you want to continue and harp on it?.

[Shane Bond]

I'm going to bow out, lest your responses lower my IQ any further.

Ok, I don't like to make cheap personal attacks.

[Superman]

I always stick to point and the discussion unlike you making personal attack and I won't inspite of your baiting.

I have tried to explain, you just don't get it. So I said I disagree and move on. Now you want to continue and harp on it?.

 

My goodness... I love it when people resort to accusations of personal attacks, when there are clearly no personal attacks.

 

You didn't try to explain, unless you call saying that he got manhandled by Kap an explanation. That was summarily debunked and exposed; I thought you might try to actually support your viewpoint. I'm not trying to harp on anything, but you claim so matter-of-factly that Rodgers is inferior, it would seem like you could defend that claim.

 

Like I said, it's okay if you just want to move on. But it's incredibly weak of you to play the personal attack card. 

[BloodyChamp]

You don't get it

You are correct. For the 75th time, I see nowhere in a discussion about Tom Brady and Peyton Manning that 2010 Brett Favre belongs.

 

---

 

As for Rodgers, those fanboys have been loonier than the Brady homers for a long time now which is odd after they always blamed their previous quarterback every time they lost.

[Shane Bond]

My goodness... I love it when people resort to accusations of personal attacks, when there are clearly no personal attacks.

You didn't try to explain, unless you call saying that he got manhandled by Kap an explanation. That was summarily debunked and exposed; I thought you might try to actually support your viewpoint. I'm not trying to harp on anything, but you claim so matter-of-factly that Rodgers is inferior, it would seem like you could defend that claim.

Like I said, it's okay if you just want to move on. But it's incredibly weak of you to play the personal attack card.

And you continue to attack by calling weak, double standards etc.

Like I said, I explained and it's going in circles. I would like to move on. Is that ok?.

[Superman]

And you continue to attack by calling weak, double standards etc.

Like I said, I explained and it's going in circles. I would like to move on. Is that ok?.

I never attacked you. It's too bad you have to make that false accusation rather than just defending your argument.

And yes, for the third time, it's fine with me if we move on.

[Guest nflfan014]

Manning, Brees, Rogers, Brady.

 

How did Rodgers have a better 2013 than Brady?  He was injured most of the year and had an early playoff exit, and this is coming from a Rodgers fan.  I suppose you could make the argument Brees had a better season than Brady last year because of regular season stats, but Brady had a game-winning drive head to head against Brees and took a depleted team to the AFC Title Game.  You just really, really, hate Brady and all things Patriots.  At least Shane and others give him credit even though they aren't fans of his.

[sweetsurrender]

How did Rodgers have a better 2013 than Brady?  He was injured most of the year and had an early playoff exit, and this is coming from a Rodgers fan.  I suppose you could make the argument Brees had a better season than Brady last year because of regular season stats, but Brady had a game-winning drive head to head against Brees and took a depleted team to the AFC Title Game.  You just really, really, hate Brady and all things Patriots.  At least Shane and others give him credit even though they aren't fans of his.

I thought Rodgers had the most disappointing season of all the top level QBs. Flynn actually carried the day for that team by winning just enough so that the Packers were in position to go to the post-season in the last game.

[jvan1973]

I thought Rodgers had the most disappointing season of all the top level QBs. Flynn actually carried the day for that team by winning just enough so that the Packers were in position to go to the post-season in the last game.

Flynn was 2-2-1 during games he played for the packers. He did lead them from behind to get the tie in his first appearance though

[ViriLudant]

How did Rodgers have a better 2013 than Brady? He was injured most of the year and had an early playoff exit, and this is coming from a Rodgers fan. I suppose you could make the argument Brees had a better season than Brady last year because of regular season stats, but Brady had a game-winning drive head to head against Brees and took a depleted team to the AFC Title Game. You just really, really, hate Brady and all things Patriots. At least Shane and others give him credit even though they aren't fans of his.

Dustin can't stand anything related to the Patriots. It's quite amusing.

[amfootball]

Flynn was 2-2-1 during games he played for the packers. He did lead them from behind to get the tie in his first appearance though

Yeah, the packers really only had a chance in the end because Detroit and the Bears are that bad and Dallas managed to have their annual head scratching collapse against them after being up by 20+ points at half ...

[TAPLOOK]

Is there anyone posting that doesn't feel that Brady and Manning are among the all-time greats at QB? 

 

Is there anyone posting that feels Rogers is among the all-time greats?

[TAPLOOK]

Flynn was 2-2-1 during games he played for the packers. He did lead them from behind to get the tie in his first appearance though

 

 

I was at a freezing cold Sunday or Monday night game at the Razor that the Patriots were lucky to win against Flynn and the Packers.

[Dustin]

How did Rodgers have a better 2013 than Brady?.

He played QB better. Better in basically every efficiency metric.

[Dustin]

Dustin can't stand anything related to the Patriots. It's quite amusing.

Not quite. I think Devin McCourty is the best safety in the NFL. It's just that the majority of the players on your team are terribly overrated.

[GoPats]

Wasn't there a WR called branch who was a SB MVP?.

Point is Peyton creates his receiver to his needs better than NE. We have discussed in detail in this thread.

 

Shane I understand the point you're trying to make, but the flaw is the examples you're throwing out there. Chad Johnson excelled in one system (the Bengals'). He looked like a rookie in the Pats' offense. Dumbing things down so one player "gets it" (as you suggested Brady should have done) is not the QB's job. You're not going to simplify what 25 other guys are doing because one guy doesn't understand it. And understand, it wasn't a matter of getting open or catching the ball. It was a matter of Chad not knowing what route he was supposed to run half the time. It got into his head and he never caught on. 

 

And Brandon Lloyd... yes, great year in Denver there in 2009 or whatever it was. But I watched every game he played as a Patriot. He had some good ones and was fairly productive. Others, he was invisible. He'd make a crazy sideline catch, twisting and contorting his body to stay in bounds, and then drop a ball that hits him in the chest. Maddeningly inconsistent. And apparently a locker room presence that no one wanted back.

 

Deion Branch was a great fit for NE, and should have been here his whole career. He would have been like a Troy Brown or Wes Welker. Never really mentioned with the "elite" receivers (fair or not), but very productive, and a top slot guy. He wasted a good chunk of his prime years by holding out and forcing the trade. 

[Shane Bond]

Shane I understand the point you're trying to make, but the flaw is the examples you're throwing out there. Chad Johnson excelled in one system (the Bengals'). He looked like a rookie in the Pats' offense. Dumbing things down so one player "gets it" (as you suggested Brady should have done) is not the QB's job. You're not going to simplify what 25 other guys are doing because one guy doesn't understand it. And understand, it wasn't a matter of getting open or catching the ball. It was a matter of Chad not knowing what route he was supposed to run half the time. It got into his head and he never caught on. 

 

And Brandon Lloyd... yes, great year in Denver there in 2009 or whatever it was. But I watched every game he played as a Patriot. He had some good ones and was fairly productive. Others, he was invisible. He'd make a crazy sideline catch, twisting and contorting his body to stay in bounds, and then drop a ball that hits him in the chest. Maddeningly inconsistent. And apparently a locker room presence that no one wanted back.

 

Deion Branch was a great fit for NE, and should have been here his whole career. He would have been like a Troy Brown or Wes Welker. Never really mentioned with the "elite" receivers (fair or not), but very productive, and a top slot guy. He wasted a good chunk of his prime years by holding out and forcing the trade. 

Players not fitting into NE system is not the player's fault. We cant keep complaining we didnt have weapons.

 

Its better to say the weapons didnt fit our system or we couldnt mould them. 

 

When Carlon Palmer can have 7 over 1000 yards with Chad, there is no excuse.

[TAPLOOK]

Not quite. I think Devin McCourty is the best safety in the NFL. It's just that the majority of the players on your team are terribly overrated.

 

 

What up Dusty...I still smell wood burning when you type.

[chad72]

Can we get this to 400 posts  ? I'm sure we can and hopefully then, close the thread.

[BloodyChamp]

Is there anyone posting that doesn't feel that Brady and Manning are among the all-time greats at QB?

Interesting question. The answer has to be no, but fandom, stubbornness, etc. I certainly think they are 2 GOATs.

Is there anyone posting that feels Rogers is among the all-time greats?

Not me, and the stuff Packer fans come up with to sell him as the greatest ever if he were to quit right now just makes me hate him regardless of his plain old overrated play on the field.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I'd like to see that link....

 

Because according to the NFLN, it's entirely the players vote.    The NFLN just reveals the results....    period.

 

Technically you're correct, and realistically, the alternative viewpoint isn't too far off.  I guess the NFL sends out the ballots very close to the pro bowl ballots.  maybe some didn't realize that they are not the same and toss out the second thinking they already voted for the pro bowl. Because only 28% voted last time...  see here--

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/05/inside-the-top-100-voting-process/