Colts Can't Trade Manning

[jjcolts]

I just caught part of something on ESPN radio but they had John Clayton on and he said because of how Manning's contract is set up and how he is to get his bonus money the Colts can NOT trade Peyton Manning and they will either have to cut him or keep him and draft Andrew Luck and either trade Luck or let Luck sit on the bench.

Also, lets say they "could trade him" and assuming they only trade him because of his health.....who would take that trade?

[number28]

yes we can trade him. It would also be the biggestmistake in the history of the franchise.

Expect another 0-16, 2-14, maybe 3-13 season while Luck is adjusting to this vanilla organization.

[GoColts8818]

yes we can trade him. It would also be the biggestmistake in the history of the franchise.

Expect another 0-16, 2-14, maybe 3-13 season while Luck is adjusting to this vanilla organization.

Read the report, basicly because of the cap hit that comes with Manning's roster bonus and how it's set up it's pretty much impossiable to trade him. Again I got this from John Clayton it's not my own personal opinion if you think he's wrong send him the e-mail.

[number28]

John Clayton is a #$@$%^%$, Manning can restructure his contract and do whatever he wants. PM runs everything in Indy.

[dn4192]

But Irsay is crazy, remember? At least, that's what everyone will say when it's convenient to their viewpoint. It's not the ideal situation for the Colts. Luck sitting behind Peyton is pointless, because Peyton's job isn't to teach him anything. His job is to win Super Bowls. Not only that, but just because Luck is 'smart' doesn't mean he's stupid. An NFL career can be over at any moment. He wants to forge a legacy and make as much money as possible. Those opportunities won't be there if he's riding the pine. And no...

He isn't the future, or our star of the future. He is nothing but a college QB at this point. Peyton is a sure thing, because he's proven as much. Luck has proven he can't beat elite teams in college when the tv cameras are on.

Peyton isn't a sure thing. right now there is a better chance Luck will could a better QB in the NFL next year over Peyton, because we don't even know at this point if Peyton will ever play again. It's going to take him at least a couple more months before we have any ability to know if he can play on this level ever again and if so to what level. Right now Luck has more upside long term then Peyton does.

[dn4192]

Nicely done but still very much based on little more than your personal opinion. The fact remains that, head-to-head, Manning has beaten all of the defensive players you've listed. In addition, he has consistently outperformed every QB you've listed (some as recently as last season). A great WR is nice to have but how good would Calvin Johnson be if he had, say, Curtis Painter, throwing him the ball. How anyone can look at the 0-10 Colts and underestimate the value of Peyton Manning is beyond me. Don't forget that he took, for the most part, this same team to the playoffs last year and, more than likely, would have done so again this season. That's a QB that knows how to win!

Appreciate the thorough reply but I'm still unconvinced.

With the information we have right now, and his age, I doubt many NFL personal would take Peyton over Rogers/Brees/Brady for the coming season. I wouldn't be shocked to see a few take Sue just because of the talent he has and havoc he can wreck. We have to understand that the great years from Peyton are in the past and odds are they won't be repeated over the final few years of his career. Now could he still be a succesful QB, sure anything is possible, but right now he is no where the top in quality talent in teh NFL.

[IndySouth]

With the information we have right now, and his age, I doubt many NFL personal would take Peyton over Rogers/Brees/Brady for the coming season. I wouldn't be shocked to see a few take Sue just because of the talent he has and havoc he can wreck. We have to understand that the great years from Peyton are in the past and odds are they won't be repeated over the final few years of his career. Now could he still be a succesful QB, sure anything is possible, but right now he is no where the top in quality talent in teh NFL.

We don't know that Peyton will, never again, play at an extremely high level. All we know, for sure, is that he has consistently done so throughout his career. If he checks out medically, I have absolutely no concerns regarding his ability to play at an elite level. Past success may not provide an accurate prediction of future performance but, when you observe this level of sustained excellence over a great period of time, I believe it's a safe bet.

Let's not forget that Brees and Brady have both suffered and recovered from injuries in their careers. In addition, neither of those players can be considered "young" by NFL standards. Rodgers is a stud and, likely, still has a great deal of upside. If I were building a franchise today, he would be the only active player that I would take over Manning. However, I wouldn't take him over Manning as the QB of this current Colts team.

[dn4192]

We don't know that Peyton will, never again, play at an extremely high level. All we know, for sure, is that he has consistently done so throughout his career. If he checks out medically, I have absolutely no concerns regarding his ability to play at an elite level. Past success may not provide an accurate prediction of future performance but, when you observe this level of sustained excellence over a great period of time, I believe it's a safe bet.

Let's not forget that Brees and Brady have both suffered and recovered from injuries in their careers. In addition, neither of those players can be considered "young" by NFL standards. Rodgers is a stud and, likely, still has a great deal of upside. If I were building a franchise today, he would be the only active player that I would take over Manning. However, I wouldn't take him over Manning as the QB of this current Colts team.

Both Brees and Brady's injuries did not occur to them when they were almost 36 years old and in my opinion not as career threatening as Peytons is.

[Jason_]

With the information we have right now, and his age, I doubt many NFL personal would take Peyton over Rogers/Brees/Brady for the coming season. I wouldn't be shocked to see a few take Sue just because of the talent he has and havoc he can wreck. We have to understand that the great years from Peyton are in the past and odds are they won't be repeated over the final few years of his career. Now could he still be a succesful QB, sure anything is possible, but right now he is no where the top in quality talent in teh NFL.

After what...9 weeks I challenge anyone here to point to a team in the AFC that really is dominate? I see flaws in every team and the top teams are sitting at 6-3 at best. Now with a good draft this year, a return of Peyton to 100% even with our flaws, I don't see any reason why the Colts can't put up between 11-13 wins next season. We won't be facing the type of schedule we have over the past decade and I think if ready to go Peyton and the rest of the vets will have something to prove and be determined. I think this time next year depending on Peyton we could be standing at 8-1 or 7-2 after 9 games because I just don't see anyone in the AFC that would be that much better.

Still contradicting yourself I see.

:feedtroll:

[IndySouth]

Both Brees and Brady's injuries did not occur to them when they were almost 36 years old and in my opinion not as career threatening as Peytons is.

I'll concede that point and conclude by reminding you that I was assuming that Peyton returns 100% healthy and ready. I, personally, don't believe he'll return in any other fashion. If he returns at all, I expect him to play as well if not better than he did prior to the surgeries. I wouldn't argue that he's the best, long-term option but he's clearly the best short-term option for the Colts.

[dn4192]

Still contradicting yourself I see.

:feedtroll:

Not at all, in the first group I said the great "years" of Peyton are gone and they are, if Peyton comes back he has maybe 1 or 2 seasons left not many years. He could come back next year and the Colts could be good in 2012 and maybe again in 2013 but we are not going to see Peyton leading this team to greatness much after that, he has very little time left.

[Mameluc]

For the sake of entertainment, I'd love to see this list of 10 current players that you feel are better than a healthy Peyton Manning. Also, please be objective. I'm not asking who you think might be better.

1. Aaron Rogers - Best QB in the game today

2. Sue (defensive player from Lions) - is a game changer, and young

3. Tom Brady - Showed last night can do alot with not much

4. Calvin Johnson - Can score at will and is young

5. Frank Gore - Runs and catches

6. Drew Brees - maybe 2nd best QB playing today

7. Clay Mathews - domintates and dictates how offense have to play

8. Ben Rothensberg - Big mobil and nows how to win

9. Andre Johnson - Probably best overall best WR in game

10. D. Revis - Can make offense inept

If I could take any player to start my team I would pick any of these 10 before I take Manning at this point. Not based off of his overall career, but at this point even if Manning is 100%. Peyton Manning is not young and will not improve over the coming seasons. Manning is a great QB, but again if you had the first pick of any player in teh league to build your new frachise around I don't see how you would take Peyton over these 10.

wait what? Please a healthy Manning is better than most of those, and at the very least equal to Brady and Rodgers, and i really think im being pesimistic.

do you enjoy arguin for the sake or arguing?

btw, the question was who is better not who you start a team with RIght now...of course you start a team with a younger guy, IE Rodgers, there is no secret there and you are not the first person to take notice that manning is 35 (or 36?)

i dotn even come here that much lately, but everytime i do, you are arguing with somebody and continue and continue...like trying to prove a point or that you know better....

how old are you?

[Jason_]

do you enjoy arguin for the sake or arguing?

Yes

[Mameluc]

Yes

lol i see...I guess im going back to the *other* forum man...i was looking here if i could fin something about draft prospects or anything interesting since im waaaaaaaaay bored at my work right now.

[dn4192]

wait what? Please a healthy Manning is better than most of those, and at the very least equal to Brady and Rodgers, and i really think im being pesimistic.

do you enjoy arguin for the sake or arguing?

btw, the question was who is better not who you start a team with RIght now...of course you start a team with a younger guy, IE Rodgers, there is no secret there and you are not the first person to take notice that manning is 35 (or 36?)

i dotn even come here that much lately, but everytime i do, you are arguing with somebody and continue and continue...like trying to prove a point or that you know better....

how old are you?

There is no way even at 100% healthy at his age and injury issue Manning this coming season would be looked at as better then either Brees or Rogers. Right now there is no other player in the NFL better or more valuable then Aaron Rogers. As for my age, lets say I am "this" close to begin collecting on all those wonderful AARP discounts....;-)

[Jaric]

But Irsay is crazy, remember? At least, that's what everyone will say when it's convenient to their viewpoint. It's not the ideal situation for the Colts. Luck sitting behind Peyton is pointless, because Peyton's job isn't to teach him anything. His job is to win Super Bowls. Not only that, but just because Luck is 'smart' doesn't mean he's stupid. An NFL career can be over at any moment. He wants to forge a legacy and make as much money as possible. Those opportunities won't be there if he's riding the pine. And no...

What? How is that not the ideal situation? We have Manning play the two more years or so he likely has left, and then turn the keys over to a guy who has been able to sit back and learn our offensive system, got to watch a guy who defines what preperation in the NFL is all about, and got to do so without all the pressure of trying to immediately turn around a crappy franchise which is the situation most number one picks end up in.

I mean, that's about as close to ideal as a franchise can be in when they are coming to the end of the career of a legend. I really don't understand why so many people here have an aversion to planning for the future. And in this scenario, we don't even have to sacrifice the short term.

[04DarkShadowGT]

There is no way even at 100% healthy at his age and injury issue Manning this coming season would be looked at as better then either Brees or Rogers. Right now there is no other player in the NFL better or more valuable then Aaron Rogers. As for my age, lets say I am "this" close to begin collecting on all those wonderful AARP discounts....;-)

You are on the wrong forum for opinions like that. Just dont tell them I mostly agree with you.

I just dont see how its possible to miss an entire season to come back and be as good as you have been, especially at that position. I think he will still be a top 4 or 5 QBs in the league if he is 100% healthy but if I am being objective, I would take Brees, Rodgers, or Brady to run my team for the next 4-5 years over Manning if given a choice. They are all younger and arent coming off a major injury, imo the neck is much more troubling than Bradys knee.

[dn4192]

You are on the wrong forum for opinions like that. Just dont tell them I mostly agree with you.

I just dont see how its possible to miss an entire season to come back and be as good as you have been, especially at that position. I think he will still be a top 4 or 5 QBs in the league if he is 100% healthy but if I am being objective, I would take Brees, Rodgers, or Brady to run my team for the next 4-5 years over Manning if given a choice. They are all younger and arent coming off a major injury, imo the neck is much more troubling than Bradys knee.

I understand where Colts fans feelings are, Peyton has been an incredible talent and done so much for this franchise and city it is hard to see him at the end of his career. People still want him to be the guy that broke Dan Marino's TD record, or the guy with the record passing yards. But we have to accept what we have and that is a Peyton of advancing age where many call it a career even if they haven't had a major injury. I think we also have to accept the severity of this injury as being much worse then what is the "norm" for many NFL injuries. I want the Franchise to do what is best, but until we have a true understanding of what Peyton can or can't do that is tough, and to believe that there are not better NFL players in the league right now over Peyton is just silly.

[utall]

I understand where Colts fans feelings are, Peyton has been an incredible talent and done so much for this franchise and city it is hard to see him at the end of his career. People still want him to be the guy that broke Dan Marino's TD record, or the guy with the record passing yards. But we have to accept what we have and that is a Peyton of advancing age where many call it a career even if they haven't had a major injury. I think we also have to accept the severity of this injury as being much worse then what is the "norm" for many NFL injuries. I want the Franchise to do what is best, but until we have a true understanding of what Peyton can or can't do that is tough, and to believe that there are not better NFL players in the league right now over Peyton is just silly.

Are you working for the doctors that are treating PM? Do you really know how bad his injury is or are you just guessing. I think you are just guessing and giving your opinion as to how we should all think. If you are wrong and from what I know you very well could be, then everthing you are saying is a bunch of horse feathers. Why do you not think the Franchise is going to not do whats best when they know for sure. And if PM turns out to be healthy, start naming off all the NFL players that are better. Dont choke on this. You seem to be so sure about everything. Are you sure, 100% sure, that PM is not coming back. If you are then give us a sound reason why you think that.

[number28]

1. Aaron Rogers - Best QB in the game today

2. Sue (defensive player from Lions) - is a game changer, and young

3. Tom Brady - Showed last night can do alot with not much

4. Calvin Johnson - Can score at will and is young

5. Frank Gore - Runs and catches

6. Drew Brees - maybe 2nd best QB playing today

7. Clay Mathews - domintates and dictates how offense have to play

8. Ben Rothensberg - Big mobil and nows how to win

9. Andre Johnson - Probably best overall best WR in game

10. D. Revis - Can make offense inept

If I could take any player to start my team I would pick any of these 10 before I take Manning at this point. Not based off of his overall career, but at this point even if Manning is 100%. Peyton Manning is not young and will not improve over the coming seasons. Manning is a great QB, but again if you had the first pick of any player in teh league to build your new frachise around I don't see how you would take Peyton over these 10.

Manning is still better than any of those players on the list. They don't even come close.

[dn4192]

Are you working for the doctors that are treating PM? Do you really know how bad his injury is or are you just guessing. I think you are just guessing and giving your opinion as to how we should all think. If you are wrong and from what I know you very well could be, then everthing you are saying is a bunch of horse feathers. Why do you not think the Franchise is going to not do whats best when they know for sure. And if PM turns out to be healthy, start naming off all the NFL players that are better. Dont choke on this. You seem to be so sure about everything. Are you sure, 100% sure, that PM is not coming back. If you are then give us a sound reason why you think that.

What we know is that the injury was/is serious enough that it has required multiple surgies over like 2 years, he flew to Germany to get additional treatments that are not even permitted in the states and not 1 doctor can say when or if he can even play next season and that to me spells trouble. Peyton can be 100% healthy and he still won't be the best player in the NFL anymore, he is aging and has injury issues, why are people so afraid to see what is in front of them?

[dn4192]

Manning is still better than any of those players on the list. They don't even come close.

Exactly how is Peyton better? I agree that Peyton at his peak was the best playing, that isn't now and to me to think that Peyton is no the level of impact talent over the likes of Rogers, Brees, Brady is not being truthful to the facts. I am willing to bet if you ask all the NFL Gm's if they can have 1 QB out of those 4, not one would take Peyton first at this point in his career.

[austriancolt]

If Peyton can't play anymore bring him in as a coach! He would be a better OC than Christensen right away...

[IndyTrav]

1. Aaron Rogers - Best QB in the game today

2. Sue (defensive player from Lions) - is a game changer, and young

3. Tom Brady - Showed last night can do alot with not much

4. Calvin Johnson - Can score at will and is young

5. Frank Gore - Runs and catches

6. Drew Brees - maybe 2nd best QB playing today

7. Clay Mathews - domintates and dictates how offense have to play

8. Ben Rothensberg - Big mobil and nows how to win

9. Andre Johnson - Probably best overall best WR in game

10. D. Revis - Can make offense inept

Why in the world would you rank Gore/Cj/Andre anywhere near this list!?!? At 4 and 5 no less. That is comical. I understand your point, in taking a player and moving forward, but it should NEVER be a rb or wr. And actually I'm not sure I'd have Matthews on there either.

Qbs I'd take above Manning from here forward. In order. Rodgers. Rivers. Ben. Brees. Brady. I will also accept Suh, Revis. But that's about it.

Gore. Lol.

[dn4192]

Why in the world would you rank Gore/Cj/Andre anywhere near this list!?!? At 4 and 5 no less. That is comical. I understand your point, in taking a player and moving forward, but it should NEVER be a rb or wr. And actually I'm not sure I'd have Matthews on there either.

Qbs I'd take above Manning from here forward. In order. Rodgers. Rivers. Ben. Brees. Brady. I will also accept Suh, Revis. But that's about it.

Gore. Lol.

I put Gore on the list because he has multiple ways he can help a team. He can run up the middle and also outside, he can catch passes out of the backfield and pass block. He can pound the ball and outrun you. Even when teams knew the 49ers had no offense but him, he still produced.

[IndyTrav]

I put Gore on the list because he has multiple ways he can help a team. He can run up the middle and also outside, he can catch passes out of the backfield and pass block. He can pound the ball and outrun you. Even when teams knew the 49ers had no offense but him, he still produced.

So you put a guy who has only once scored more than 10 times, once went over 1200yds and once played all 16 games over Peyton Manning. Gores not even a top 3rb, let alone the 5th player taken overall. You do realize Gore has 3 blown out knees right?

[dn4192]

So you put a guy who has only once scored more than 10 times, once went over 1200yds and once played all 16 games over Peyton Manning. Gores not even a top 3rb, let alone the 5th player taken overall. You do realize Gore has 3 blown out knees right?

Yep, and he did all of that with those bad knees and on a very bad offense, think what he would do on a good team.

[IndyTrav]

Yep, and he did all of that with those bad knees and on a very bad offense, think what he would do on a good team.

So you would take Gore over AP,Cj2k foster Mjd rice McFadden turner mendenhall Steven Jackson(my personal fave)?

[dn4192]

So you would take Gore over AP,Cj2k foster Mjd rice McFadden turner mendenhall Steven Jackson(my personal fave)?

right now I would.

[Smitto]

Why would we want to trade away Manning? Look at what our team is like without him

What the colts need to do is just go all defense in this years draft...from 1-8 or how much picks they are gonna have... they arent lacking on offense with the weapons they have... a good young WR would help but a good saftey and DT would do wonders right now.

[dn4192]

What the colts need to do is just go all defense in this years draft...from 1-8 or how much picks they are gonna have... they arent lacking on offense with the weapons they have... a good young WR would help but a good saftey and DT would do wonders right now.

What defense player that will be available do you believe warrents using the overall number 1 pick on?

[Smitto]

What defense player that will be available do you believe warrents using the overall number 1 pick on?

the colts could always trade down.. which i think would be the best thing ever.. more picks and if the colts are bent on getting a really good back up for manning they still can cause the draft is loaded with good QB's not to mention you get some really good early round picks AND two 1st round picks in the next draft which would only set you up even more to bolstering up your roster.... lets face it peyton is in his last days, doing that while giving him a team that can contend now for the superbowl would be the best thing the colts can ever do for themselves and him.

[icf]

Manning is still better than any of those players on the list. They don't even come close.

Ask the GM's around the league if they would rather have Manning or Rogers....Most (if not all) would say Rogers......Brees may likely land ahead of Manning as well.

A 36 year old QB coming off of 3 neck surgeries is no longer going to be considered the best player in football.

Some people here need to realize that the Manning of 2006 and the Manning (if he even plays) in 2012 will NOT be the same person. He may well still be a top 5 QB -- but he no longer will be the best player in the league.

[dn4192]

the colts could always trade down.. which i think would be the best thing ever.. more picks and if the colts are bent on getting a really good back up for manning they still can cause the draft is loaded with good QB's not to mention you get some really good early round picks AND two 1st round picks in the next draft which would only set you up even more to bolstering up your roster.... lets face it peyton is in his last days, doing that while giving him a team that can contend now for the superbowl would be the best thing the colts can ever do for themselves and him.

I think whomever the QB is you bring to replace Manning at somepoint has to be special because he will have so much pressure on him it will mean he is dealing with much more then just being a rookie QB, that is why I think you have to go with someone like Luck who has had nothing but the limelight and presure on him over the past 3 seasons.

[icf]

... they arent lacking on offense with the weapons they have...

Where are these weapons on offense you speak of?

Reggie Wayne -- a very good -- not sure I'd say great WR -- who turns 33 today and is a FA after the season.

Dallas Clark -- who had been a great receiving TE -- but has missed 1/2 of each of the last 2 seasons and will be 33 next season - in addition to being pretty terrible in 2011?

Joseph Addai - he'll be 29 next season and hasn't rushed for 1000 Yards since 2007. He's also has had trouble staying healthy the last 2 years.

Pierre Garcon - 26 next season - good #2 receiver, but iffy hands keep him from being better.

Auston Collie - He's one more concussion from being out of the league. Currently has 28 catches / 248 yrds / 0 TDs

Anthony Gonzalez - no catches this year....won't be back in 2012.

Wayne and Clark are getting old....and while having a real QB would help their stats (compared to this year) they've seen their best years. Clark has a decent chance of getting dropped in the off season to save the $$ and Wayne may not be back pending his FA demands.

Addai might be a good #2 back, but he's not a top flight back by any stretch.

Garcon is pretty good and Collie once showed promise but neither is a top flight player (weapon).

So there you have your top 4 WR, #1 RB and TE....and some of them may not even be back in 2012. If not for a potential glaring need at Qb -- they could easily use upgrades to the WR/RB/TE group.

This team has holes all over the place and need more than Manning (or Luck) to help right all their wrongs.

[jskinnz]

I put Gore on the list because he has multiple ways he can help a team. He can run up the middle and also outside, he can catch passes out of the backfield and pass block. He can pound the ball and outrun you. Even when teams knew the 49ers had no offense but him, he still produced.

Any credibility you had with this list is lost by the inclusion of Gore. Not only that he is a better player than a post-surgery Manning now (unknown and debatable at best) but that he is on a list of players that you would start a franchise with. RB's are remarkably replaceable and to have him above Brees or any other franchise QB is simply wrong.

[Blue Horseshoe]

Ask the GM's around the league if they would rather have Manning or Rogers....Most (if not all) would say Rogers......Brees may likely land ahead of Manning as well.

Based on what? One good season?

A 36 year old QB coming off of 3 neck surgeries is no longer going to be considered the best player in football.

Some people here need to realize that the Manning of 2006 and the Manning (if he even plays) in 2012 will NOT be the same person. He may well still be a top 5 QB -- but he no longer will be the best player in the league.

Manning's real value has nothing to do with passing. It has to do with play calling something very few players do. Brady has started doing it and Brees does once in a while. Manning always does. That is the real key to this offense. Manning reads the defense and calls the play on the fly at the line. Rodgers doesn't call his own plays.

Manning covers up a multitude of flaws and if he were playing he would have covered up the flaws with this team.

My rankings have not changed at all

1) Manning

2) Brady

3) Brees

4) Rodgers

[number28]

Exactly how is Peyton better? I agree that Peyton at his peak was the best playing, that isn't now and to me to think that Peyton is no the level of impact talent over the likes of Rogers, Brees, Brady is not being truthful to the facts. I am willing to bet if you ask all the NFL Gm's if they can have 1 QB out of those 4, not one would take Peyton first at this point in his career.

If Peyton comes back he is a higher caliber player thank Rogers, brady, Brees etc.

These players can't win on bad teams. Peyton not only won, but went to SB's and won.

Until I see Rogers do well on a atrocious team like the Colts for example, he will never be better than Manning. Green Bay is loaded and I mean loaded with talent on all aspects.

[icf]

Based on what? One good season?

One?

2009 - 4434 yards / 30 TD / 7 INT

2010 - 3922 yards / 28 TD / 11 INT (SB Champ)

2011 - 2869 yards / 28 TD / 3 INT (In only 9 games)

Thats 3 straight seasons with a QB rating over 100....Manning hasn't had seasons with ratings like that since 2004-2006.

[number28]

One?

2009 - 4434 yards / 30 TD / 7 INT

2010 - 3922 yards / 28 TD / 11 INT (SB Champ)

2011 - 2869 yards / 28 TD / 3 INT (In only 9 games)

Thats 3 straight seasons with a QB rating over 100....Manning hasn't had seasons with ratings like that since 2004-2006.

Manning had much better seasons. Wayy better. Go look and compare the stats. When Manning was his age his TD's were in upper 30's and 40's. His yards were over 4000 every season, he had way more completions and most of all NEVER had a good team around him.

Rogers is not even close. Not on the same planet.

Rogers is not even in the same conversation as Manning or Brady. He is not in their league.