Broncos extend Fox for three years

[amfootball]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10731691/denver-broncos-john-fox-agree-3-year-deal

 

The Broncos have extended Fox for three years. I would not have been so eager to extend him given how the Broncos looked in the Super Bowl but overall he has done a good enough job riding Manning the past two seasons to all those wins.

[sweetsurrender]

Denver will never win a ring with Elway/Fox. Only Elway would reward a coach for his team looking that ill prepared in the SB.

[Shane Bond]

Denver will never win a ring with Elway/Fox. Only Elway would reward a coach for his team looking that ill prepared in the SB.

Yep. Bad move from Elway.

[sweetsurrender]

Yep. Bad move from Elway.

I love it as it means the Colts path just got easier ....

[amfootball]

Yep. Bad move from Elway.

I know you like the Broncos. What is your honest opinion of Fox?

[Shane Bond]

I love it as it means the Colts path just got easier ....

Absolutely.

[Shane Bond]

I know you like the Broncos. What is your honest opinion of Fox?

 

He doesnt have the IT factor.

He is not creative.

He is not aggressive.

His brain freezes under pressure.

 

All he does is talk politically correct. Its annoying. I have never seen him punish a player for what they deserve ( like Bill benching Welker etc ).

 

Bad bad move.

[Bluefire4]

Can't deny what he built there with Elway. No one would question him if he won the super bowl. Just another example of how every coach except the super bowl winner faces criticism.

[MAC]

So it would be better to let him play out next year as a lame duck, and then hire an entirely new coaching staff to work with a then THIRTY-NINE year old Peyton?

 

Or do you just fire him immediately on the heels of an overwhelmingly successful season?

 

And who does anyone imagine they would find as a replacement that would be an immediate improvement?

 

Whoever you have in mind, the odds of them being "the missing ingredient" rather than "an overwhelming distraction that is the last thing the team needs" is somewhere between slim and none.

 

Fox is fine. I'm not sure how you complain about a guy with long-term success as a defensive oriented coach (three SB appearances for those who only count such things), who has the confidence to hire another successful defensively oriented head coach as his DC, and let a young kid and an aging QB define his offense. How is a new guy to "improve" things without simultaneously ripping it all apart to impose his will? And how long will that take exactly even if it works?

[21isSuperman]

I'm not a fan of Fox.  I think his record in Denver looks good simply because he has Peyton.  I didn't like the hire in the first place and I don't like the extension now

[oldunclemark]

He's done the job the last 2 years...No. 1 seed......

 

Its far fetched to say that coaching lost either playoff game..if we must always have blame

 

Look at other coaches around the NFL and how they stay on without winning (like Rex )

 

In Chicago....Mark T. took a 10-6 team and went 8-8 and was considered a success.....

 

Cincinnatti......San Francisco....all multiple Super Bowl winners under their present coaches, for sure...

 

Sean Payton's return was supposed to take NOLA to the Bowl right?

 

..and who's coaching Dallas again?

 

   Fox is steady and the last 2 years speak for themselves

[oldunclemark]

I'm not a fan of Fox.  I think his record in Denver looks good simply because he has Peyton.  I didn't like the hire in the first place and I don't like the extension now

Does your original bias color your thoughts now?

 

He should have been coach of the year for making the playoffs with Tim Tebow..

 

Now, 13-3 and 13-3.........its Peyton certainly and admittedly they played better when he was in the hospital.

 

But its hard to look at the last 3 years and find coaching fault

 

Nobody says it but Denver last season was 15-4 with a team that lost six starters from the start of the season

[21isSuperman]

Does your original bias color your thoughts now?

 

He should have been coach of the year for making the playoffs with Tim Tebow..

 

Now, 13-3 and 13-3.........its Peyton certainly and admittedly they played better when he was in the hospital.

 

But its hard to look at the last 3 years and find coaching fault

 

Nobody says it but Denver last season was 15-4 with a team that lost six starters from the start of the season

My original bias?  I haven't liked Fox as a head coach ever.  With Tebow, I was more impressed with Mike McCoy adjusting the offense to fit his abilities.  Plus, I still hold that Tebow had several bounces go his way.  Those wins you listed, to me, are a result of Peyton.  Peyton was able to win with Dungy, Caldwell, and Fox.  I wouldn't consider any of those guys to be great coaches.  Peyton is able to deal with injuries by putting guys in the right spots, and he makes up for OL injuries by releasing the ball quicker.  Denver's defense was nothing special, so I haven't been all that impressed by Fox.

[oldunclemark]

     There's no doubt that Peyton has been the offensive force behind 2 franchises,,..

 

.and certainly Tebow's Denver time  was luckier than the Kardashians..as is evidenced by his present unemployment

 

..But Fox has coached 2 teams to Super Bowls....right..and if not for luck....he'd have probably coached this team to back-to-back Super Bowls

 

Is it always someone else's doing..?  You explain in detail why he isn't responsible for what's right? 

 

Even if his only asset is his co-workers....he certainly deserves an extension..I don't see his glaring errors.

 

But hey, what do I know?. Up here. Tom Thibodeau is the greatest coach the Bulls have ever had and he's never won even a conference title.

 

Even if he has nothing to do with his team winning...he isn't screwing it u. he deserves the extension... .

[Shane Bond]

I think when we criticize Fox, its not because he is a bad coach. Its because he doesn't have the championship winning factor in him.

 

Crossing the last step is very tough. Its in the mind. I don't think he believes in himself. We saw his challenge flags during the SB. Thats all on him. You cant blame players. And he didnt expect the noise??. I mean this is SB.

 

Got to get creative and take calculated risks.

 

Look at Sean Payton's onside kick.

Belichick going with Brady to throw rather than going over time. 

 

Game changers. Fortune favors the brave.

[southwest1]

So it would be better to let him play out next year as a lame duck, and then hire an entirely new coaching staff to work with a then THIRTY-NINE year old Peyton?

 

Or do you just fire him immediately on the heels of an overwhelmingly successful season?

 

And who does anyone imagine they would find as a replacement that would be an immediate improvement?

 

Whoever you have in mind, the odds of them being "the missing ingredient" rather than "an overwhelming distraction that is the last thing the team needs" is somewhere between slim and none.

 

Fox is fine. I'm not sure how you complain about a guy with long-term success as a defensive oriented coach (three SB appearances for those who only count such things), who has the confidence to hire another successful defensively oriented head coach as his DC, and let a young kid and an aging QB define his offense. How is a new guy to "improve" things without simultaneously ripping it all apart to impose his will? And how long will that take exactly even if it works?

Exactly MAC. It would be counter productive to change coaching philosophies now & not fair to Peyton who already started over after being cut by INDY. At his age, I sure as hades wouldn't want to start all over again with a new coaching staff not when 18 only got 1-2 years left  in the NFL I think. And people always think there is always some mythical replacement savior coach to win another SB ring. There isn't. Besides, no other team would have beaten that dominant, Pacific NW defense in Seattle don't kind yourself people. Even I never knew that the Hawks were a utter defensive wrecking crew until I witnessed it on TV in February.

 

People may want to question why a supposedly defensive guru in Fox or someone who cut his teeth on defense had no answer for Seattle's DC? A legitimate question, but I would counter with this: What team still left standing at the start of the Playoffs did? NE was decimated by injuries all year & I think the last time that the Broncos faced the Hawks it was a preseason game. The answer: Nobody.  

[MAC]

I think when we criticize Fox, its not because he is a bad coach. Its because he doesn't have the championship winning factor in him.

 

Crossing the last step is very tough. Its in the mind. I don't think he believes in himself. We saw his challenge flags during the SB. Thats all on him. You cant blame players. And he didnt expect the noise??. I mean this is SB.

 

Got to get creative and take calculated risks.

 

Look at Sean Payton's onside kick.

Belichick going with Brady to throw rather than going over time. 

 

Game changers. Fortune favors the brave.

Fortune mostly favors the lucky. it's 20-20 hindsite to look at a coaches decision and suggest that THAT'S why the team won.

 

IE: Sean Payton's onside kick - if a certain wide receiver doesn't let the ball bounce off his chest, Payton might have spent the past few years as the laughingstock who cost his team a chance to win the SB. Are you suggesting that he is somehow responsible for, or capable of predicting the fumble on the onside kick? It was actually an absurd stroke of desperation.

[southwest1]

I think when we criticize Fox, its not because he is a bad coach. Its because he doesn't have the championship winning factor in him.

 

Crossing the last step is very tough. Its in the mind. I don't think he believes in himself. We saw his challenge flags during the SB. Thats all on him. You cant blame players. And he didnt expect the noise??. I mean this is SB.

 

Got to get creative and take calculated risks.

 

Look at Sean Payton's onside kick.

Belichick going with Brady to throw rather than going over time. 

 

Game changers. Fortune favors the brave.

Normally, I would agree with you Shane, but sometimes you just get your caboose whipped by a juggernaut defense. See the 85 Bears, the 2001 Ravens or the 2007 NY Giants. No, SW1 is not making any excuses here. I did expect a more competitive performance by Denver initially in the SB I won't lie, but I also knew by 10 minutes in the 3rd QTR that the game was over. Did Peyton stop trying to win? No, of course not the game just got away from the Broncos & it just wasn't their night that's all. The Football Gods had decreed that the Broncos magic carpet ride of a successful season was now over. It's as simple as that. 

[southwest1]

Fortune mostly favors the lucky. it's 20-20 hindsite to look at a coaches decision and suggest that THAT'S why the team won.

 

IE: Sean Payton's onside kick - if a certain wide receiver doesn't let the ball bounce off his chest, Payton might have spent the past few years as the laughingstock who cost his team a chance to win the SB. Are you suggesting that he is somehow responsible for, or capable of predicting the fumble on the onside kick? It was actually an absurd stroke of desperation.

You mean the WR with gloves on named Hank Baskett? Grrr! I always get upset every time I see that onside kick play, but then SW1 reminds myself that in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina the devastated state of Louisiana needed that Lombardi Trophy & something positive to cheer about more than INDY did so I am okay with it.

 

Or at least that's what I keep telling myself anyway. I'm trying to take the high road here after a disappointing Colts SB loss. Is it working? Not really, but my heart is in the right place I guess. I do respect QB Drew Brees & it's not like INDY lost to Tony Romo & the dreaded Dallas Cowboys. There SW1 find a silver lining finally. LOL! 

[Shane Bond]

MAC/SW1 - My buddies.

 

I think what i am trying say is, swag is needed. I feel Fox loses the war in his mind before it begins.

[chad72]

MAC/SW1 - My buddies.

 

I think what i am trying say is, swag is needed. I feel Fox loses the war in his mind before it begins.

 

Turning down the volume in practice not anticipating crowd noise with 2 weeks to prepare for a SB is proof enough for me on the preparation side. Kneeling with 30 seconds to go and 2 timeouts to go a year ago vs baltimore, and making no adjustments when things started south in the SB is proof enough for me on the adjustments side.

 

Broncos will never win a SB with John Fox as coach. I will come back and eat crow if they do and even have John Fox as my avatar for a whole month if they do.

[21isSuperman]

Turning down the volume in practice not anticipating crowd noise with 2 weeks to prepare for a SB is proof enough for me on the preparation side. Kneeling with 30 seconds to go and 2 timeouts to go a year ago vs baltimore, and making no adjustments when things started south in the SB is proof enough for me on the adjustments side.

I completely agree with this!

[southwest1]

MAC/SW1 - My buddies.

 

I think what i am trying say is, swag is needed. I feel Fox loses the war in his mind before it begins.

It's all good man. I wasn't upset with you or anything. I get your point perfectly Shane. To quote Sun Tzu from The Art Of War, "Every battle is won before it is fought."

 

You & I are on the same frequency my brother. 

[southwest1]

Turning down the volume in practice not anticipating crowd noise with 2 weeks to prepare for a SB is proof enough for me on the preparation side. Kneeling with 30 seconds to go and 2 timeouts to go a year ago vs baltimore, and making no adjustments when things started south in the SB is proof enough for me on the adjustments side.

 

Broncos will never win a SB with John Fox as coach. I will come back and eat crow if they do and even have John Fox as my avatar for a whole month if they do.

What? Are you subliminally comparing John Fox to Jim Caldwell in failing to make swift sideline adjustments Chad? I wouldn't go that far myself. 

 

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Fox's SB winning chances. John Elway knows how to crack the discipline whip trust me & I don't think the coaching staff would be pardoned from #7's HOF wrath. JMO.  

 

You've got look at the Broncos continued progress: Losing to Baltimore, beating the Patriots in the AFC Championship Game, getting to the SB...Only 1 step left: Win the darn thing!

 

I will confess though that I almost wish TE Shannon Sharpe could still suit up because the dude is a proven winner with never say die attitude oozing out of every pore in his body.  

[southwest1]

Amfootball raised a great point to me once. BB is always coaching up the defense whenever they are having problems in a game. Something I have never seen John Fox do in my lifetime not even in Carolina.

 

I never forgot that profound point either. Perhaps that is what Chad72 & 21isSuperman was alluding to. A valid argument. Is this because Fox doesn't want to undermine the authority of his DC or he just isn't smart enough to devise corrections on the fly like the Grey Hoodie routinely does? I have no idea. 

 

The strange thing is this: BB made a name for himself as a SB winning DC with the NY Giants in the 90's meaning he has the hardware & authority to go over the head of his DC Matt Patricia if he feels the need to do so, but John Fox lost in 2004 at the SB & he really doesn't have the same authority to step in & take over the Broncos defense. Besides, it could create a rift among your coaching staff too. Where's the happy medium here?

 

I would love to see an in depth interview between BB & Matt Patricia to see how that relationship works because Matt's been in Foxboro for a decade & the 2 seem to get along & still win Playoff games. John Fox could learn something from that conversation I think namely how to stroke egos, maintain confidence in your teaching methods, & still make vital adjustments in crucial situations without tearing apart continued team success. 

[Synthetic]

Dumb move.

 

 

The most overrated coach in the entire league and people only pretend to like him cause Manning is there.

 

 

Bandwagon Broncos fans, go ask the Panthers fans how they feel about Fox.

[Synthetic]

 

 

Broncos will never win a SB with John Fox as coach. I will come back and eat crow if they do and even have John Fox as my avatar for a whole month if they do.

 

 

I've been saying that for the past two years and I normally get essay length responses about how he's a great coach just cause Manning is there, but I know 5 years ago when he was exploiting the Panthers and running their franchise into the ground, no one was saying how great he was because it's a fact - he's a mediocre overrated coach. Those Panthers teams were great at one point and he slowly and surely run them into the ground while Delhomme got all the blame for it.

[southwest1]

Amfootball raised a great point to me once. BB is always coaching up the defense whenever they are having problems in a game. Something I have never seen John Fox do in my lifetime not even in Carolina.

 

I never forgot that profound point either. Perhaps that is what Chad72 & 21isSuperman was alluding to. A valid argument. Is this because Fox doesn't want to undermine the authority of his DC or he just isn't smart enough to devise corrections on the fly like the Grey Hoodie routinely does? I have no idea. 

 

The strange thing is this: BB made a name for himself as a SB winning DC with the NY Giants in the 90's meaning he has the hardware & authority to go over the head of his DC Matt Patricia if he feels the need to do so, but John Fox lost in 2004 at the SB & he really doesn't have the same authority to step in & take over the Broncos defense. Besides, it could create a rift among your coaching staff too. Where's the happy medium here?

 

I would love to see an in depth interview between BB & Matt Patricia to see how that relationship works because Matt's been in Foxboro for a decade & the 2 seem to get along & still win Playoff games. John Fox could learn something from that conversation I think namely how to stroke egos, maintain confidence in your teaching methods, & still make vital adjustments in crucial situations without tearing apart continued team success. 

People on here probably wonder why I praise NE all the time. Simple they win year in year out & because of that I wanna decode the secret to their success. Or to put it another way: "If you steal from 1 author it's called plagiarism. If you steal from several authors, it's called research." The NFL is a copycat league is it not? I will take tricks of the trade from any squad to get ahead & gain a competitive edge. 

 

SW1 learned that in Graduate school. Just Kidding!     

[southwest1]

I've been saying that for the past two years and I normally get essay length responses about how he's a great coach just cause Manning is there, but I know 5 years ago when he was exploiting the Panthers and running their franchise into the ground, no one was saying how great he was because it's a fact - he's a mediocre overrated coach. Those Panthers teams were great at one point and he slowly and surely run them into the ground while Delhomme got all the blame for it.

QB Jack Delhomme did take the brunt of the blame unfairly for that 2004 SB loss against NE. I will openly acknowledge that salient point completely with no qualms whatsoever Bogie, but even you have to admit that after that SB appearance Jack was never that same clutch QB again. You can't blame diminished QB skills on Coach Fox IMHO. 

 

You are right though. FOX did lean on his ground game to carry him further than he should have in Carolina. Sometimes, ground & pound guys are too reluctant to engage in an ariel attack when your RBs get worn down. Rex Ryan suffers from the exact same problem too actually. He doesn't mix up the run with the pass enough & that's why he is an HC in name only AKA DC predominately.

[Jules]

I have never been a John Fox fan and even have relatives in NC who are Panthers fans who used to complain about him at times.

 

But.....what else are they supposed to do at this point in Manning's career anyway? He is 38 now. They are not going to change over completely in the near future as long as Peyton is there. The only reason we went to Caldwell is because Dungy retired and was planning to for some time.

[jvan1973]

Dumb move.

The most overrated coach in the entire league and people only pretend to like him cause Manning is there.

Bandwagon Broncos fans, go ask the Panthers fans how they feel about Fox.

Didn't he take them to their only superbowl appearance?

[southwest1]

I have never been a John Fox fan and even have relatives in NC who are Panthers fans who used to complain about him at times.

 

But.....what else are they supposed to do at this point in Manning's career anyway? He is 38 now. They are not going to change over completely in the near future as long as Peyton is there. The only reason we went to Caldwell is because Dungy retired and was planning to for some time.

I don't hate Fox. I just agree that Manning hate no desire to start over in his career at this late stage. It was the only smart left for Elway & Bowlen. Jues is right. 

[Jules]

I don't hate Fox. I just agree that Manning hate no desire to start over in his career at this late stage. It was the only smart left for Elway & Bowlen. Jues is right. 

 

Yeah continuity at this point is key. Same for the Colts too, we have to keep our OC around for Luck to keep developing.

 

As much as I pick on Denver at times or am critical.....I do like the defensive signings they made sadly. Offense is where I will be keeping an eye on since I think Decker/Moreno are solid losses. Also it's tough to repeat the kinds of numbers Manning and those guys had last year and the schedule is tougher. There may be a drop in offense IMO but that's also the odds coming off the records they set last year.

 

Defensively though that team SHOULD improve.

[oldunclemark]

MAC/SW1 - My buddies.

 

I think what i am trying say is, swag is needed. I feel Fox loses the war in his mind before it begins.

Really?  Swag?

 

He loses before the game begins?

 

I just think you are what your record says you are

[oldunclemark]

I have never been a John Fox fan and even have relatives in NC who are Panthers fans who used to complain about him at times.

 

But.....what else are they supposed to do at this point in Manning's career anyway? He is 38 now. They are not going to change over completely in the near future as long as Peyton is there. The only reason we went to Caldwell is because Dungy retired and was planning to for some time.

Every teams fans complain about their coach every time they lose a game...

 

....outside of the evil mad scientist in New England, who are the great coaches?

[Jules]

Every teams fans complain about their coach every time they lose a game...

 

....outside of the evil mad scientist in New England, who are the great coaches?

 

Yeah top coaches in this league is certainly up to debate at times and not most will always agree. I like Jim Harbaugh. I sometimes like Sean Payton too for his boldness and I think he has proven the last few years how important he is to the Saints organization too.

 

I think the hoodie is a top coach but sometimes gets a tad overrated too. Been waiting to see these so called major defensive improvements for several years from that squad. If you don't gift NE turnovers I feel they can be painfully overrated. Problem is the last two times we have played NE we have gifted them turnovers lol.

[Qwiz]

I guess we will find out how good a coach Fox is when Manning retires and the Broncos are dealing with the repercussions of the "win now" approach.

[Shane Bond]

Really?  Swag?

 

He loses before the game begins?

 

I just think you are what your record says you are

Which is true - he is what his record his.

 

0-2 SBs.

 

Thats the whole discussion. I repeat he is not a bad coach but he doesn't have what it takes to cross the line.

 

If Broncos ever win a SB with Manning, It would either due to Manning or other players or Elway not Fox.

[amfootball]

So it would be better to let him play out next year as a lame duck, and then hire an entirely new coaching staff to work with a then THIRTY-NINE year old Peyton?

 

Or do you just fire him immediately on the heels of an overwhelmingly successful season?

 

And who does anyone imagine they would find as a replacement that would be an immediate improvement?

 

Whoever you have in mind, the odds of them being "the missing ingredient" rather than "an overwhelming distraction that is the last thing the team needs" is somewhere between slim and none.

 

Fox is fine. I'm not sure how you complain about a guy with long-term success as a defensive oriented coach (three SB appearances for those who only count such things), who has the confidence to hire another successful defensively oriented head coach as his DC, and let a young kid and an aging QB define his offense. How is a new guy to "improve" things without simultaneously ripping it all apart to impose his will? And how long will that take exactly even if it works?

I am not sure how you could watch the Super Bowl and feel good about Fox as a HC. And he had some highly questionable calls in the Ravens game as well two years ago with the kneel down with 30 seconds and 2 time outs.

 

I do agree though that a change at this point probably would not make sense for Manning but then again Manning is going to run his Indy offense no matter who the head coach is. I think some of the coaches that have been in retirement like Cowher and Gruden may come out of it to coach Manning for a couple of seasons. I do think the Broncos could do better but the timing may just not be there at this point.

[oldunclemark]

  I guess I don't understand how he's judged on one game that wasnt close. That game isn't on Fox.

 

 Denver 13-4 in 2012 and 15-4 in 2013.

Coaches are not defined by questionable in-game decisions...are they?   They've all made them.

 

I think if you make the Super Bowl twice with 2 different teams and make the playoffs twice in Denver with two totally different kinds of teams...2011 and 2013...

 

I don't see the Fox criticisms that wont go away...but every coach is bad in the eyes of some fans, I guess