Ron Jaworski: "I wouldn't take Manziel in the first three rounds."

[jvan1973]

If he was available in R3 and my GM didn't pick him he would be fired.

you have a GM?

[TAPLOOK]

you have a GM?

 

I do but he doesn't work for the NFL so I guess he won't be picking in R3 anyway. His job's safe.

[GoPats]

All I know is that with the iffy nature of the last two QB classes, the Colts sure picked a good year to suck back in 2011. 

[amfootball]

Brett Fav..re and Beg Ben are much, much bigger and stouter.  I don't think the doubting of Manziel comes strictly from his style of play, it comes from his style of play combined with his lack of size.  He is also notably skinnier than Russell Wilson.  Like Manziel, RG3 is thin framed.  His style worked for nearly a whole season, but it took one hit to maybe change his whole game.  I think GM's may see that and realize a 4 year contract at maximum investment is not worth the gamble.  But somebody will take him in round 1. 

 

In the NFL, it comes down to being able to read defenses and being accurate from the pocket (where the protection is), as well as pocket awareness as another has mentioned.  If he can do those things he can be very successful, but none of the reports indicate that accuracy and decision making are his strong points.  Perhaps that's what Jaws sees in those 5 games (which even he said was too few games for a real evaluation)

This idea that he "could" get hurt is bogus IMO. He has been taking big hits in college so he can take them and still play. Any NFL team is going to teach him pocket awareness and how to protect his body. RG was reckless which is what led to his injury not his size and his injury came on a scramble play where if he would have slid could have been prevented. QBs that can move and move well out of the pocket are a plus in today's game not a minus. With Newton, Luck, Wilson and Kaep the ability to run and make yards and also keep plays alive are vital. From what I have seen of Manziel his play making ability is off the charts and he has a strong arm. He should be taken in the first round. Jaws assessment on this one is a real scratcher especially since he based in on only five games. It would have been better if he kept quiet until he reviewed more of Manziel's career as it is really not fair to make such a bold statement that could affect where he is drafted based on only 5 games.

[Dustin]

This idea that he "could" get hurt is bogus IMO. He has been taking big hits in college so he can take them and still play. Any NFL team is going to teach him pocket awareness and how to protect his body. RG was reckless which is what led to his injury not his size and his injury came on a scramble play where if he would have slid could have been prevented. QBs that can move and move well out of the pocket are a plus in today's game not a minus. With Newton, Luck, Wilson and Kaep the ability to run and make yards and also keep plays alive are vital. From what I have seen of Manziel his play making ability is off the charts and he has a strong arm. He should be taken in the first round. Jaws assessment on this one is a real scratcher especially since he based in on only five games. It would have been better if he kept quiet until he reviewed more of Manziel's career as it is really not fair to make such a bold statement that could affect where he is drafted based on only 5 games.

Taking hits in college != takings hits in the NFL

[amfootball]

Taking hits in college != takings hits in the NFL

Isn't that how guys are evaluated? I mean he has not played in the NFL yet but took hits in college and kept playing which is more then other guys have been able to do like RG for example.

[Dustin]

Isn't that how guys are evaluated? I mean he has not played in the NFL yet but took hits in college and kept playing which is more then other guys have been able to do like RG for example.

Nope. No GM is going to look at him taking hits in college and assume he'll be fine taking those same hits in the NFL.

[amfootball]

Nope. No GM is going to look at him taking hits in college and assume he'll be fine taking those same hits in the NFL.

Then why is he projected to go in the first round and possibly be the first pick?

[Dustin]

Then why is he projected to go in the first round and possibly be the first pick?

Being projected by whom? Media? 17 NFL QB coaches said that they'd rather have Derek Carr (the guy the media is calling the 4th best QB) over Manziel.

[amfootball]

Being projected by whom? Media? 17 NFL QB coaches said that they'd rather have Derek Carr (the guy the media is calling the 4th best QB) over Manziel.

Who else does the projections? lol. Pretty sure the media is talking to NFL GMs and coaches.

 

But regardless, the point still stands that not taking guy because of fear of injury makes no sense especially when that player has not been injury prone. There have been plenty of small guys like Welker for example that can take a beating and keep on playing.

[Surge89]

I have a lot of people to reply to so I'll just do it all in one post.

 

The reason I'm so adamantly defending Manziel is because I can't understand why grown men are so adamantly hoping that the kid fails. He hasn't done anything that isn't typical of any other kid his age. As far as going out drinking at the Manning Camp, I've read that a lot of the counselors who go to the camp regularly head to Bourbon Street while they're there. Manziel messed up, but was it really a big deal? NO. ESPN made the story a lot bigger than it was. The thing that speaks measures about Manziel is that despite all of the attention in the off season he came out this season and had a better season than he did when he won the Heisman Trophy with a worse supporting cast. Obviously the kid was focused on football during the off season, at this time last year no one thought he would be a first round pick if he came out after this season. Can you blame him for wanting to leave Texas A&M? He couldn't even go to class without being swarmed by students. There was an issue over Texas A&M giving him his replica of the Heisman Trophy. He made that school a fortune with booster donations, and lord knows how many #2 jerseys and t-shirts they sold while he was there, and he almost gets screwed for making $15K on autographs? Hard to imagine especially since the schools chancellor said he should be paid. The kid even had to get a police escort home after games. When he arrives to the NFL, I truly believe he will have less pressure on him than he did at A&M. I know there is a chance he could fail, there is that possibility with anyone in the draft. If I was a GM though the QB I'd want the most in this draft would be Johnny Football.

 

 

Wait wait...  Manziel (who most likely will be picked in the first by some dumb team) is going to be under less pressure than he was under in college?  An immature kid with money is going to somehow be an adult... Pipe dream imo.  I'm adamant that he has talent, yes but his mentality is that of a spoiled 5 year old.  And no his college screw ups (the ones the media has reported) are not just like anyone else.  He is money hungry, fame hungry and a torment to be around.  

[Patagonia Chris]

Wait wait...  Manziel (who most likely will be picked in the first by some dumb team) is going to be under less pressure than he was under in college?  An immature kid with money is going to somehow be an adult... Pipe dream imo.  I'm adamant that he has talent, yes but his mentality is that of a spoiled 5 year old.  And no his college screw ups (the ones the media has reported) are not just like anyone else.  He is money hungry, fame hungry and a torment to be around.

 

He isn't immature. What has he done to make him money hungry? Did he attract the fame or was it forced upon him? If you read anything about him you'll see that he doesn't strive for fame as much as it's pushed upon him. Have you anything that says he is a torment to be around? Everything that I've read says he is quite popular amongst his teammates.

[HtownColt]

Blasphemy

[dw49]

Who else does the projections? lol. Pretty sure the media is talking to NFL GMs and coaches.

 

But regardless, the point still stands that not taking guy because of fear of injury makes no sense especially when that player has not been injury prone. There have been plenty of small guys like Welker for example that can take a beating and keep on playing.

 

 

What round did Welker get drafted in ?

[HtownColt]

I heard johnny Manziel on Jon Gruden QB camp is out but I can't find it. Any help?

[amfootball]

What round did Welker get drafted in ?

Fair point but that had to do with his skills in addition to his size. And of course he may have been just another so so player if not for Brady. ;)

 

I also think QB is different in that the QB does not have to take hits. I think guys like Wilson and Kaep have showed you can escape the pocket and be smart and not take hits. I don't see why Manziel would not be able to do the same. And his play making ability is off the charts. Guys like Favre and Big Ben who he resembles have won SBs so I think any fear of injury is a silly reason to pass on him especially since he was a durable guy in college.

[DougDew]

This idea that he "could" get hurt is bogus IMO. He has been taking big hits in college so he can take them and still play. Any NFL team is going to teach him pocket awareness and how to protect his body. RG was reckless which is what led to his injury not his size and his injury came on a scramble play where if he would have slid could have been prevented. QBs that can move and move well out of the pocket are a plus in today's game not a minus. With Newton, Luck, Wilson and Kaep the ability to run and make yards and also keep plays alive are vital. From what I have seen of Manziel his play making ability is off the charts and he has a strong arm. He should be taken in the first round. Jaws assessment on this one is a real scratcher especially since he based in on only five games. It would have been better if he kept quiet until he reviewed more of Manziel's career as it is really not fair to make such a bold statement that could affect where he is drafted based on only 5 games.

I agree with just about everything you've said.  I said that the 4th round for Manziel was harsh.  I like Manziel, but I just think he'll be overdrafted because some GM will love the way he can convert garbage plays into big plays in college. 

 

With the exception of Wilson, who's success has come from having an exceptional defense, all of the quarterbacks you listed are at least 4 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier than Manziel.  It should matter when it comes to draft slotting, IMO.  Middle to bottom of the first makes more sense to me than top 5. 

[Gavin]

I agree with just about everything you've said.  I said that the 4th round for Manziel was harsh.  I like Manziel, but I just think he'll be overdrafted because some GM will love the way he can convert garbage plays into big plays in college. 

 

With the exception of Wilson, who's success has come from having an exceptional defense, all of the quarterbacks you listed are at least 4 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier than Manziel.  It should matter when it comes to draft slotting, IMO.  Middle to bottom of the first makes more sense to me than top 5. 

Seattles defense has thrown 52 TD's and 19 ints the last 2 years and a 63.6 completion percentage?

[dw49]

Fair point but that had to do with his skills in addition to his size. And of course he may have been just another so so player if not for Brady. ;)

 

I also think QB is different in that the QB does not have to take hits. I think guys like Wilson and Kaep have showed you can escape the pocket and be smart and not take hits. I don't see why Manziel would not be able to do the same. And his play making ability is off the charts. Guys like Favre and Big Ben who he resembles have won SBs so I think any fear of injury is a silly reason to pass on him especially since he was a durable guy in college.

 

 

 Then you have RG3. Plus Kapernik is way sturdier than Manziel. You also could say that SF is trying to teach him to stay in the pocket and run much less. I understand your point and it does have some validity . However . I do think some teams will drop him down their boards due to his size and style of play. Will no doubt be my point of interest in round one as my team has no 1st. I can't remember too many guys entering the draft with such a low floor and high ceiling.

[amfootball]

 Then you have RG3. Plus Kapernik is way sturdier than Manziel. You also could say that SF is trying to teach him to stay in the pocket and run much less. I understand your point and it does have some validity . However . I do think some teams will drop him down their boards due to his size and style of play. Will no doubt be my point of interest in round one as my team has no 1st. I can't remember too many guys entering the draft with such a low floor and high ceiling.

I really have no horse in this race so I could care less where he is drafted. My issue is with Jaws "assessment" which seems flimsy given he only watched 5 games and thinks the kid should drop to the third day. Jaws opinion on QBs is valued by decision-makers and I am disappointed that he would say what he did with so little evaluation. He usually prides himself on studying all the fine details of Qbs and their games and then gives in-depth analysis. This statement by him screams of having some type of issue with Manziel which is a shame as these comments could cause him to drop.

 

I agree about the high ceiling and low floor. He is one of the most interesting QB prospects in a long time. I am rooting for him as I think he has the goods and I like to see guys prove doubters wrong.

[amfootball]

I agree with just about everything you've said.  I said that the 4th round for Manziel was harsh.  I like Manziel, but I just think he'll be overdrafted because some GM will love the way he can convert garbage plays into big plays in college. 

 

With the exception of Wilson, who's success has come from having an exceptional defense, all of the quarterbacks you listed are at least 4 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier than Manziel.  It should matter when it comes to draft slotting, IMO.  Middle to bottom of the first makes more sense to me than top 5. 

Wilson is a premier QB IMO and he was just as much responsible for the Hawks ring as the defense. And of course he likes to shed the pocket too and is shorter then Manziel. The only issue here though is Manziel seems much more undisciplined in his approach then Wilson which is why I think he is more like Favre and Big Ben. I do think he gets taken in the first round just because of his play making ability.

[Surge89]

He isn't immature. What has he done to make him money hungry? Did he attract the fame or was it forced upon him? If you read anything about him you'll see that he doesn't strive for fame as much as it's pushed upon him. Have you anything that says he is a torment to be around? Everything that I've read says he is quite popular amongst his teammates.

 

 

As I have already said.  I have nothing that I have read.  I have seen and witnessed with my own eyes.  He is spoiled.  Take a trip to A&M when the lights aren't on and you will see.  Nothing was "Forced" upon him and he is a headcase, whether you choose to believe what the media reports (a very small portion of what is indicative of Manziel) is your choice.  But he isn't the victim here.

[jvan1973]

Wilson is a premier QB IMO and he was just as much responsible for the Hawks ring as the defense. And of course he likes to shed the pocket too and is shorter then Manziel. The only issue here though is Manziel seems much more undisciplined in his approach then Wilson which is why I think he is more like Favre and Big Ben. I do think he gets taken in the first round just because of his play making ability.

Wilson was taken in the third round

[dw49]

I really have no horse in this race so I could care less where he is drafted. My issue is with Jaws "assessment" which seems flimsy given he only watched 5 games and thinks the kid should drop to the third day. Jaws opinion on QBs is valued by decision-makers and I am disappointed that he would say what he did with so little evaluation. He usually prides himself on studying all the fine details of Qbs and their games and then gives in-depth analysis. This statement by him screams of having some type of issue with Manziel which is a shame as these comments could cause him to drop.

 

I agree about the high ceiling and low floor. He is one of the most interesting QB prospects in a long time. I am rooting for him as I think he has the goods and I like to see guys prove doubters wrong.

 

 

I hear you but I guess the question would be "would Jaws need more tape than that to give an opinion ?"  Wouldn't that give him a good idea of his arm talent , field vision and decision making ? Don't really have the answer , just throwing it out there.

[DougDew]

Seattles defense has thrown 52 TD's and 19 ints the last 2 years and a 63.6 completion percentage?

Since the topic is about Manziel, my post about Wilson was ancillary and incomplete.  Wilson has benefitted from an exceptional running game too (which he is a part of).  As did Kaep, as well as a defense. 

 

The basic topic is about Jaws saying where Manziel will be drafted and why, after round three, in the top 5, or somewhere in between.

 

BTW, its hard to compare anyting to Seattle, because Carroll is a known cheater and probably has figured a way to smuggle H..H to all of those late-to-mid round, and near washed up veteran "athletes".  JMO.  Everybody thinks it was shrewed drafting and FA analysis...yeah, right.

[amfootball]

I hear you but I guess the question would be "would Jaws need more tape than that to give an opinion ?"  Wouldn't that give him a good idea of his arm talent , field vision and decision making ? Don't really have the answer , just throwing it out there.

I think he has watched more than 5 games for other QBs he has evaluated. I think what else seems odd is that usually he leads with the positives about a Qb before delving into the negatives. His summary is all negative which seems out of character for him.

[amfootball]

Wilson was taken in the third round

Right and he didn't have close to the collegiate success as Manziel.

[jvan1973]

Right and he didn't have close to the collegiate success as Manziel.

he was a four year starter with no questions about his maturity. He also didn't have the best WR in the country

[Patagonia Chris]

As I have already said.  I have nothing that I have read.  I have seen and witnessed with my own eyes.  He is spoiled.  Take a trip to A&M when the lights aren't on and you will see.  Nothing was "Forced" upon him and he is a headcase, whether you choose to believe what the media reports (a very small portion of what is indicative of Manziel) is your choice.  But he isn't the victim here.

 

Sorry I forgot you were on the A&M team and interacted with him everyday. My apologies.

[amfootball]

he was a four year starter with no questions about his maturity. He also didn't have the best WR in the country

Three of those years were at NC State. Manziel could have played two more seasons but opted out given he is expected to be taken in the first round of the draft.

[DougDew]

he was a four year starter with no questions about his maturity. He also didn't have the best WR in the country

Wilson dropped in the draft due to his height, not his play. Manziel is the same size, supposedly.

[BrentMc11]

Three of those years were at NC State. Manziel could have played two more seasons but opted out given he is expected to be taken in the first round of the draft.

Tried to post years and stats.....

 

I thought he played at Wisconsin 2 years.....and I watch the Big 10?  Wow what a dumb___!  

[jvan1973]

Wilson dropped in the draft due to his height, not his play. Manziel is the same size, supposedly.

yes i know. that's why I'm surprised at everyones shocked about manziel not going in the first

[krunk]

Wilson's last year at NC State he had 143 rushes. Manziel had 144 rushes last year.

Manziel: 5'11 3/4" 207 LBS.

Wilson: 5'11" 203 LBS.

 

Bridgewater...you've got to be kidding me.

 

Wilson did not play at NC State, he played at Wisconsin.  Sorry, I just learned that he was at NC State for a while

 

Absolutely nothing wrong with Bridgewater other than people questioning the competition he played.

It's very obvious he has a high football acumen and is very accurate on top of being able to run if he

has to do so.

[BrentMc11]

Wilson did not play at NC State, he played at Wisconsin.  

 

Absolutely nothing wrong with Bridgewater other than people questioning the competition he played.

It's very obvious he has a high football acumen and is very accurate on top of being able to run if he

has to do so.

3 years at NC State and one at Wisconsin buddy.....

[BrentMc11]

Wilson did not play at NC State, he played at Wisconsin.  

 

Absolutely nothing wrong with Bridgewater other than people questioning the competition he played.

It's very obvious he has a high football acumen and is very accurate on top of being able to run if he

has to do so.

I liked how tough was when he was hurt(Bridgewater)  I said somewhere he reminded me of McNair at that point.

 

I saw him play way too much...not sure why folks are down on him...'scratches head'  

[Colts_Fan12]

Wilson did not play at NC State, he played at Wisconsin.

Absolutely nothing wrong with Bridgewater other than people questioning the competition he played.

It's very obvious he has a high football acumen and is very accurate on top of being able to run if he

has to do so.

He is the best QB in this draft if he went to an SEC school ppl wouldn't shut up about him but he went to Louisville so he isn't talked about much

[John Dee]

Wilson played 3 or 4 years at NC State...      had a year of eligibility left and went to Wisky.

 

You may be meaning his SR/last season of college ball....       carry on.

 

 

Wilson did not play at NC State, he played at Wisconsin.  Sorry, I just learned that he was at NC State for a while

 

Absolutely nothing wrong with Bridgewater other than people questioning the competition he played.

It's very obvious he has a high football acumen and is very accurate on top of being able to run if he

has to do so.

[krunk]

He is the best QB in this draft if he went to an SEC school ppl wouldn't shut up about him but he went to Louisville so he isn't talked about much

 

 

I like what I see when I watch him on film.  He very much so gets it, he just needs to bulk up some maybe in the way Mcnabb did after he got in the league. As a matter of fact he's already at 214 so he realizes this as well. Put the right talent around him in the NFL and I'm sure he is going to do well.  If Houston doesn't select him, I don't think Jacksonville will go wrong if they selected him.

[Colts_Fan12]

I like what I see when I watch him on film. He very much so gets it, he just needs to bulk up some maybe in the way Mcnabb did after he got in the league. As a matter of fact he's already at 214 so he realizes this as well. Put the right talent around him in the NFL and I'm sure he is going to do well. If Houston doesn't select him, I don't think Jacksonville will go wrong if they selected him.

I'd like for him to fall to Cleveland to pair him with Gordon and Cameron since Cleveland can't get cousins