I Thought Chuck Was A Defensive Guru?

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

this is a horrible post

 

making the playoffs is not the goal anymore.  expecting more from the team is fine.  just be correct about the complaints

This is a horrible post.

 

Making the playoffs every single year is not indicative a bad coach or GM.  Learn how to be objective in your criticism.

[Balzer40]

I apologize. I've been reading a lot of the fire Pagano and Grigson posts, seeing yours finally made me boil over.

I agree. Talking about firing Pagano or Grigson right now is pure nonsense. They have both easily earned at the very least a couple more seasons to get all the pieces in place.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Cornerstone players are not going to get cut in a regime overhaul. That argument is silly. The mid tier players are the main casualties to such an overhaul. And I'm not arguing Tamme is better. Stop twisting my words. What I said was he was a more than capable receiving threat for a year or 2 until we drafted another TE. Do I think Tamme is on par with Fleener? No. But do i think Fleener is some transcendent talent at TE that we couldn't have passed on? Not at all. If we had to go offense, I would've much rather have chosen Cordy Glenn, and I think our offense as a whole would be in much better shape, had we done so. And I am on record as saying that before and after the draft. So no hindsight involved in me saying so.

And if Grigson felt our next best pass rusher was expendable after acquiring Werner, he was in fact proven dead wrong this season, as we lacked a 2nd consistent pass rusher to compliment Mathis this year. Maybe Werner will develop into that in time, but Hughes was not expendable this year, and we shot ourselves in the foot by cutting ties too soon. Especially for a marginal talent like Sheppard, at that

I really think the criticism that Grigson is taking for this last season is completely ridiculous.  A quick look at our cap situation and how all of his contracts are structured gives clear evidence that he knows what he's doing.  He's setting up our team to be a powerhouse in the near future, and if anyone doesn't like it they can go root for another team.

[YOUR GM]

I really think the criticism that Grigson is taking for this last season is completely ridiculous. A quick look at our cap situation and how all of his contracts are structured gives clear evidence that he knows what he's doing. He's setting up our team to be a powerhouse in the near future, and if anyone doesn't like it they can go root for another team.

For the record, I don't support the notion of Grigson or Pagano being fired. I am, however, willing to critically look at their body of work and some of the decisions they've made. I think both of them need to thank Andrew Luck for masking the mistakes they've made this past season. 11-5 is 11-5, but how we got there is a bit deceiving. I highly doubt Pagano envisioned the team winning the way we did this season (You know, stubbornly run the ball with little success until we're in so much of a hole that Andrew is FORCED to throw ball and win it for us), and it isn't really a sound formula for sustained success. Chuck was far too conservative this year and Grigson was far too aggressive. They both could learn a thing or two from each other. As a whole, I am happy with the direction of the team, and I think Pagano and Grigson deserve a lot of credit. I don't think anything they've done warrants them being in jeopardy of losing their jobs just yet. I do hope they've learned from some of their mistakes this season, however. They made plenty of them, even with being 11-5 with a playoff win under their belts

[dudeski]

Cornerstone players are not going to get cut in a regime overhaul. That argument is silly. The mid tier players are the main casualties to such an overhaul. And I'm not arguing Tamme is better. Stop twisting my words. What I said was he was a more than capable receiving threat for a year or 2 until we drafted another TE. Do I think Tamme is on par with Fleener? No. But do i think Fleener is some transcendent talent at TE that we couldn't have passed on? Not at all. If we had to go offense, I would've much rather have chosen Cordy Glenn, and I think our offense as a whole would be in much better shape, had we done so. And I am on record as saying that before and after the draft. So no hindsight involved in me saying so.

And if Grigson felt our next best pass rusher was expendable after acquiring Werner, he was in fact proven dead wrong this season, as we lacked a 2nd consistent pass rusher to compliment Mathis this year. Maybe Werner will develop into that in time, but Hughes was not expendable this year, and we shot ourselves in the foot by cutting ties too soon. Especially for a marginal talent like Sheppard, at that

hughes was horrible and had to go

[dudeski]

This is a horrible post.

Making the playoffs every single year is not indicative a bad coach or GM. Learn how to be objective in your criticism.

doesnt mean it is good

How anyone can watch how unprepared we were half the time and say we were well coached is beyond me

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

doesnt mean it is good

How anyone can watch how unprepared we were half the time and say we were well coached is beyond me

How can anyone watch a team and know the reason we played poorly early in games was because the team was unprepared.  Do you know what happens during the week?  Are you there in the meeting rooms, film room, or on the practice field?  Please fill us in on what Pagano and co. are not doing to prepare the team properly...the problem with this team IS NOT COACHING...it's a severe lack of talent at a few key positions.

[dudeski]

How can anyone watch a team and know the reason we played poorly early in games was because the team was unprepared. Do you know what happens during the week? Are you there in the meeting rooms, film room, or on the practice field? Please fill us in on what Pagano and co. are not doing to prepare the team properly...the problem with this team IS NOT COACHING...it's a severe lack of talent at a few key positions.

yeah ok.

Those slow starts had nothing to do with coaching

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

yeah ok.

Those slow starts had nothing to do with coaching

Explain how.  I know it's easy to say it's coaching, but actually think about it and tell me.  Was it a bad gameplan?  Does Pagano have a poor pregame routine?  Does he not do enough hands on coaching during the week?  Is he a poor motivator?  Does he just not know what he's doing?  What is it?

[dudeski]

Explain how. I know it's easy to say it's coaching, but actually think about it and tell me. Was it a bad gameplan? Does Pagano have a poor pregame routine? Does he not do enough hands on coaching during the week? Is he a poor motivator? Does he just not know what he's doing? What is it?

that sounds good.

[braveheartcolt]

Well, he was very 'defensive' of the Richardson trade, if that is what you mean....

[MR. Blueblood]

I think he created a lot of unnecessary holes by cutting players just because they were Polian guys. We didn't need to draft Fleener last year. We did so because we released Clark and Tamme. Clark was understandable but Tamme was a serviceable receiving TE who would basically be doing the same thing Fleener did this year. Fleener isn't a complete TE anymore than Tamme was. A needless roster move, in my opinion.

I understand cutting all the Tampa-2 guys from the roster, as they were basically dinosaurs and useless in today's big and fast league. Going all offense in the first draft, when we already had weapons available from the previous regime we could've kept, even if for only being a stop gap for a year or two, was a lateral move that basically set the whole defensive rebuild back an entire year. This roster was not completely devoid of talent. There were players here (Hughes, anyone?) who could've produced but were victims to the politics of the league

I'm pretty sure Tamme was a free agent, and wasn't released.  Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong.  It wasn't a needless roster move to draft Fleener, became kind of necessary, IMO.

 

They might have been able to re-sign him (no idea if an attempt was even made), but if you're Jacob are you going to stay here with a team that is rebuilding or are you going to go sign with Denver and play with a QB who has already made you look better than what you are?  My guess is you take the second option.

[YOUR GM]

I'm pretty sure Tamme was a free agent, and wasn't released. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong. It wasn't a needless roster move to draft Fleener, became kind of necessary, IMO.

They might have been able to re-sign him (no idea if an attempt was even made), but if you're Jacob are you going to stay here with a team that is rebuilding or are you going to go sign with Denver and play with a QB who has already made you look better than what you are? My guess is you take the second option.

You're correct about him being a free agent. The staff made no attempt to sign him. The vibe around the locker room was anybody is expendable and no one was safe from being let go. I have doubts he would've re-signed for a reasonable price either, but the point is, we never even tried. And Fleener wasn't necessary at all that early. We drafted a better TE than him one round later. That's how unimportant that pick was. Like I said, Cordy Glenn, a guy with mid 1st round talent, was right there for the taking at the top of the 2nd...Now he's the cornerstone of the Bills line. It is what it is. Fleener is decent, I just didn't feel that pick was necessarily a need that early in the draft

[MR. Blueblood]

You're correct about him being a free agent. The staff made no attempt to sign him. The vibe around the locker room was anybody is expendable and no one was safe from being let go. I have doubts he would've re-signed for a reasonable price either, but the point is, we never even tried. And Fleener wasn't necessary at all that early. We drafted a better TE than him one round later. That's how unimportant that pick was. Like I said, Cordy Glenn, a guy with mid 1st round talent, was right there for the taking at the top of the 2nd...Now he's the cornerstone of the Bills line. It is what it is. Fleener is decent, I just didn't feel that pick was necessarily a need that early in the draft

IMO, the pick was a comfort pick to do nothing but to try and help aid Luck into his transition to the NFL by giving him a familiar target.  I said necessary pick, in the fact that our TE corps was all but gone.  Sure there are other picks that probably were better ones to make, it is what it is.  We were extremely lucky to have Allen (the overall better TE) available to take in the 3rd.  That draft was pretty much nothing but give Luck weapons to work with as their careers progress.  Going into that season, I don't think many knew that Satele would turn out to be horrific, and that McGlynn was going to suck eggs.  So giving Luck skilled position players (all of which we were lacking in) was deemed more of a priority.

[jvan1973]

You're correct about him being a free agent. The staff made no attempt to sign him. The vibe around the locker room was anybody is expendable and no one was safe from being let go. I have doubts he would've re-signed for a reasonable price either, but the point is, we never even tried. And Fleener wasn't necessary at all that early. We drafted a better TE than him one round later. That's how unimportant that pick was. Like I said, Cordy Glenn, a guy with mid 1st round talent, was right there for the taking at the top of the 2nd...Now he's the cornerstone of the Bills line. It is what it is. Fleener is decent, I just didn't feel that pick was necessarily a need that early in the draft

how do you know he wasn't given an offer?

[Jason_]

how do you know he wasn't given an offer?

 

I was wondering the same thing

[Johnny colt]

I reply, and I disagree with you broseph 

thank you..............bra  GO COLTS

[Johnny colt]

Act like a fan.  We analyze and critique our team (Colts Fans Do)

 

Every phase of the game is discussed and this team is far from perfect.  We have hammered Pep for conservatism and predictable playcalling, we have hammered Manusky in the same fashion, and even our QB has gotten some hammering.

 

Everyone has an opinion, and that is a great part of this forum.  I do suggest you FORM one instead of just slamming members who have varying opinions.  This tam needs to improve in all phases.  Not just Pagano's job.  

Thank you.Someone who gets it.You could not be more correct sir.You said,"Everyone has an opinion, and that is a great part of this forum"OH unless that opinion doesn't agree with others?You said" I do suggest you FORM one instead of just slamming members who have varying opinions." LOL,please go back and show me where I slammed ANYONE??Never happened.I wouldn't come hear to slam anyone.Show me where I did that.

 I came here to talk football and SIMPLY said hes not my fav for coach.

[BrentMc11]

Thank you.Someone who gets it.You could not be more correct sir.You said,"Everyone has an opinion, and that is a great part of this forum"OH unless that opinion doesn't agree with others?You said" I do suggest you FORM one instead of just slamming members who have varying opinions." LOL,please go back and show me where I slammed ANYONE??Never happened.I wouldn't come hear to slam anyone.Show me where I did that.

 I came here to talk football and SIMPLY said hes not my fav for coach.

Post 52....page 2.  You Mocked Balzer's comment on I believe your 4th post ever.  That is why others slammed on you after.

 

You are fine to not like Coach, but there is in no way, shape or form not a case for Pags not bringing "Anything" to the table as a coach.  Post away!!  

[The_Warlord]

I realize that this is only my 2nd post ever on this forum however, I believe that when Pagano was brought to town there were some fans who felt or believed that the Baltimore style of Defense would instantly come to Indy.  When Pagano took over as Head Coach, there were salary cap issues and a Defense that was going into a transition to the 3-4.  I for one was thrilled to hear that the Colts would be moving to the 3-4 and while I don't agree with  some of the schemes I've seen, I still feel that the 3-4 is going to rock in Indy very soon. 

 

I feel very fortunate that although we have experienced a coaching change, various personnel changes (including Peyton Manning and Dwight Freeney moving on) and a transition on Defense that we still have been able to maintain a winning atmosphere and have yet to experience the type of year we had under Caldwell when we went 2-14.  It's going to take some time to make a complete transition on Defense.  I don't see it as Pagano or Manuskys fault either one.  We have to continue to build on the transition and bring the prototype 3-4 players in that we need.   

 

There is a ton of upside to our Defense.  The Defensive Line needs improvement still, we need an ILB that is a block shedding thumper who can cover, a Safety to play center field and another OLB who can bring some heat besides Mathis.  I love Robert Mathis as a player but, he cannot do it by himself.  Get the man some pass rushing help.  You're secondary will benefit from a strong and consistent pass rush.  Great days are ahead for this Defense and when Pagano finally has all of his type guys in position, he's going to look like a genius when we are enjoying seeing our Defense absolutely destroy opposing Offenses.

[colts8718]

You mean our MONSTER D what a joke

[chrisfarley]

We have a lot of issues (The Colts), too many to be addressed and be a Super Bowl contending and competitive playoff team in the coming year.  I think we will be a rebuilding team like the 49ers for years, and then maybe finally break through in about 5 years.  I think Harbaugh is on that same track, although I know it gnaws at him to no end that 1) he got beat by his big brother, and 2) Pete Carroll whooped him up pretty good and stole his ticket to the super bowl.  He will win Super Bowl in year 5 of his tenure, which is coming up soon.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Hmmm... Colts get a young but ultra promising QB, surround him with talent at the skill positions, win very many regular season games, have a defense minded HC that is supposed to shore up the D...   can't run the ball all that well, can't stop the run at all...  make playoffs each season...  get poor draft slots such that type of guys needed for the D and team holes aren't there or they aren't as good as the slot taken in...

 

Where have I seen this movie before?

 

Hopefully Grigson and Pagano can find balance or we will be back to the Star Wars numbers game 2.0 again in no time.

[Superman]

For the record, I don't support the notion of Grigson or Pagano being fired. I am, however, willing to critically look at their body of work and some of the decisions they've made. I think both of them need to thank Andrew Luck for masking the mistakes they've made this past season. 11-5 is 11-5, but how we got there is a bit deceiving. I highly doubt Pagano envisioned the team winning the way we did this season (You know, stubbornly run the ball with little success until we're in so much of a hole that Andrew is FORCED to throw ball and win it for us), and it isn't really a sound formula for sustained success. Chuck was far too conservative this year and Grigson was far too aggressive. They both could learn a thing or two from each other. As a whole, I am happy with the direction of the team, and I think Pagano and Grigson deserve a lot of credit. I don't think anything they've done warrants them being in jeopardy of losing their jobs just yet. I do hope they've learned from some of their mistakes this season, however. They made plenty of them, even with being 11-5 with a playoff win under their belts

 

That's fair. I don't agree with all the specific criticisms, but there are criticisms, for sure. 

 

I keep talking about perspective, and I think it's important. Teams like Seattle and San Francisco, well run teams that have rebuilt their program in recent years and are having success with young quarterbacks, that's what a lot of people want out of the Colts. And in those specific examples, it's important to remember that a) those organizations have been rebuilding their programs longer than the Colts have, and b) they started their rebuild from a different situation than the Colts did. With those two facts in minds, it's not hard to see why they are stronger than we are.

 

Not only that, but when you look at their drafts in 2013, neither team got much out of their rookies. The Niners did well with Eric Reid, but that's pretty much it. The Seahawks gave up their first (and more) for Harvin, and he didn't do anything all year. That's the nature of the draft, it usually takes time before you really yield results. I don't think either team had a poor draft, but both selected players that they expected would help them immediately, and for the most part, they didn't get that help.

 

The coaching staff is also still learning. Certain things cause some raised eyebrows, for sure, but I still think patience is important. If an old-school, rigid defensive guy like Ron Rivera can suddenly morph into a progressive, free-wheeling decision maker, I have hope that Pagano's game management can get better. And if we add some playmakers on defense, it should help our performance there as well. 

[Johnny colt]

Post 52....page 2.  You Mocked Balzer's comment on I believe your 4th post ever.  That is why others slammed on you after.

 

You are fine to not like Coach, but there is in no way, shape or form not a case for Pags not bringing "Anything" to the table as a coach.  Post away!!  

Hmm?I was just there and I didn't see where I mocked him but anyway,when I said brings "anything",I meant I don't see anything new.

Maybe Im just a frustrated fan here but I have a feeling many people here would be screaming for  his head a lot more if we just had an average QB.