Dungy Vs Caldwell

[Display name available]

We have a wacky owner who twitts about almost anything wich is both good and bad, we have the polians who controle almost anything and have not been that great the last 3-4 years in drafting and we have Manning who, until this year, has controlled almost anything on offence. Where is the power of Caldwell, are his hands tied?

So in the darkest period in ages for The Colts I wonder if things would be that different now, if we had Dungy as HC and not Caldwell this year?

[Display name available]

is there any difference between Dungy and Caldwell?

[Flash7]

The players never quit playing for Dungy and were inspired by him. They've obviously quit listening to Caldwell. Tony dungy can inspire his team to play better and faster.

[ponys]

Yes, the differences are enormous, first Dungy was a winner before he came here, second he had a great teacher named Chuck Noll and third and most important his players respect him!

[Display name available]

What did Dungy do, that Caldwell don't? besides winning?

[CR91]

dungy had control and say on the team where caldwell is a puppet

Edited October 25, 2011 by coltsrule91

[oldunclemark]

Dungy and Caldwell are the same guy...

They talk all the time apparently..

[GoGoColts]

Dungy could actually coach and evaluate players. Caldwell cannot.

[Thewholefnshow28]

The biggest difference between Dungy and his staff and Caldwell and his staff is in-game adjustments.

So many times under Dungy we would see our offense struggling or the defense struggling and then after half time our team would come out with an adjustment and that would lead us to a win.

Under Caldwell we just stick with what we are doing even if it is totally not working. A prime example of this is the Bucs game. They kept checking down over and over and over again. At half did Caldwell and Coyer come up with a plan to adjust to that? Nope, we just kept doing what we were doing and they were eating us alive. It was not till the Chiefs game did we see a DT drop into coverage to throw a wrinkle in.

[ponys]

What did Dungy do, that Caldwell don't? besides winning?

The things it takes to win football games. If your players don't respect you then they aren't going to play hard.

Look at coach's like Norv Turner, he is one of the best offensive coordinators but never took a team to the SuperBowl.

Jim Caldwell did not take the Colts to the SuperBowl because it was his first year and they were already a great team.

Edited October 25, 2011 by ponys

[dn4192]

The players never quit playing for Dungy and were inspired by him. They've obviously quit listening to Caldwell. Tony dungy can inspire his team to play better and faster.

How do you prove this? I keep reading this and such, but has any player said they "quit" or is this just something fans and sports writers come up with?

[CR91]

How do you prove this? I keep reading this and such, but has any player said they "quit" or is this just something fans and sports writers come up with?

your proof is on the field

[Flash7]

7-62 tells you they quit. At least you hope they quit because if they got beat 7-62 while trying, then I'm not sure which is worse.

[GoDeep]

The difference is that Dungy can Coach and Caldwell cannot.

[Jaric]

7-62 tells you they quit. At least you hope they quit because if they got beat 7-62 while trying, then I'm not sure which is worse.

This. If they gave everything they had and got blown out that badly, we're far worse off than even the most pessimistic fan thought we were.

[Display name available]

I keep reading that the players don't respect Caldwell, but how do you guys know that? ...it is possible to loose and still have the respect for your HC. Some of the things in this forum is not solid, a lot of it is guesses.

The only real argument that is solid, that we have heard until now, is that Caldwell don't adjust that well in half time. Thats solid, thats something we all can see in the games.

[Display name available]

This. If they gave everything they had and got blown out that badly, we're far worse off than even the most pessimistic fan thought we were.

I actually prefer that they left it all out on the grid! ... because you can work with less talented guys, but you can't work with quitters.

As the great Lombardi said: Winners never quit and quitters never win!

[No 1 Manning Fan]

I keep reading that the players don't respect Caldwell, but how do you guys know that? ...it is possible to loose and still have the respect for your HC. Some of the things in this forum is not solid, a lot of it is guesses. The only real argument that is solid, that we have heard until now, is that Caldwell don't adjust that well in half time. Thats solid, thats something we all can see in the games.

I don't think they don't respect him. There is no evidence, empirical or anecdotal. I just don't think they are inspired by him. He shows no energy or passion on the sidelines. The players in turn show no passion or energy. I believe that in the past, Manning provided that spark, but without him on the sidelines and in the huddle, it has to come from your coach, assistant coaches and then transmitted through the veteran leaders.

[coltscole88]

This falls completely on the coaches, when peyton was playing he ran the offense (literally came to practice with his own clipboard) so now that the real O coordinator is gone they have the guy who coached the wide recievers and that is no working out. For the past three years they have had the same D coordinator and the defense has been horrible with the wide 9 and cover 2 schemes without big and smart linebackers (poor draft choices for the past few years) but the excuse is its okay peyton will put up enough points to make up for it well that is not okay you should strive to be the best so that is not working out for them. Is there any spark in the special teams I do not even think they practice because there is no blocking schemes for the return. the running game has been bad since a talented running back left (ederin james) and now we have subpar running backs with a bad O line but its okay becasue peyton will get the ball off when they pass (most of the time) in less than 3 seconds so you dont need a running game which has been a problem for a long time. Finally the head coach, what does he contribute he was just given the job off of peytons success now that he is gone the true colors show of the colts and as a fan I am so disapointed to see that a one man organization is a reality for the colts. Solution start over from scratch hire real talented coaches who seem to care. Its not an excuse for a team that will always make the playoffs go winless in one year NO EXCUSE think of what peyton could accomplish with a good team and coaches like New England

[ponys]

I don't think they don't respect him. There is no evidence, empirical or anecdotal. I just don't think they are inspired by him. He shows no energy or passion on the sidelines. The players in turn show no passion or energy. I believe that in the past, Manning provided that spark, but without him on the sidelines and in the huddle, it has to come from your coach, assistant coaches and then transmitted through the veteran leaders.

I think you're missing the point. Both coach's are/were quite and calm coach's. The difference is Dungy didn't need to cream or be physical for his players to respond. Dungy has a history of playing and coaching to warrant the players respect. Caldwell doen't have this experience behind him. I remember Dungy telling his players during camp that he wasn't going to speak any louder so they better pay attention.

[SilentHill]

is there any difference between Dungy and Caldwell?

No, none, whatsoever.

[No 1 Manning Fan]

I think you're missing the point. Both coach's are/were quite and calm coach's. The difference is Dungy didn't need to cream or be physical for his players to respond. Dungy has a history of playing and coaching to warrant the players respect. Caldwell doen't have this experience behind him. I remember Dungy telling his players during camp that he wasn't going to speak any louder so they better pay attention.

I think you're missing the point. Both coach's are/were quite and calm coach's. The difference is Dungy didn't need to cream or be physical for his players to respond. Dungy has a history of playing and coaching to warrant the players respect. Caldwell doen't have this experience behind him. I remember Dungy telling his players during camp that he wasn't going to speak any louder so they better pay attention.

I was simply answering the questions the OP had about players showing that they have lost respect for Caldwell. I think the players on the Colts are good guys who have not shown any outward loss of respect. I never said anything about them having as much respect for him as they did for Dungy. Dungy was an NFL head coach already and had a good reputation. That kind of cred usually gets some sort of respect.

[cmgww]

Case in point...the 2006 AFCC Game. Colts go in at halftime down 21-6, Brady had been moving the ball at will in the first half, and Peyton was picked for 6, and stymied really until that last drive to set up the field goal. 2nd half, different story. Colts start moving the ball and scoring. The D does allows only 1 more TD, and also gets several key stops. Dungy made adjustments in-game and at the half. Had Caldwell and Coyer been coaching that game, I don't think for one second we win that game. We saw what happened in the SB against the Saints; they made changes and we didn't. And we lost. Dungy was a proven coach, taking Tampa from a laughingstock to a contender. Caldwell isn't. At the time I thought it was a good move, easy transition, Caldwell had been with the team for several years, don't stop a good thing. And admit it, and don't play the hindsight game here, a lot of you thought the same thing. And it worked in 2009, right up until the onside kick to start the 2nd half of the SB. Now, we can all look back and say "he was the wrong guy for the job," but no one was saying that when we were 14-0, or going into the Super Bowl as favorites....Tony had football smarts that Caldwell doesn't. He came up through the ranks under some great coaches. He isn't the GOAT coaching-wise but he was capable. That's just the way it is. Some guys are HC material, some are not. Caldwell did a great job last year holding the team together through all the injuries, but as the timeout vs. the Jets proved, he's just not that "game smart."

Edited October 25, 2011 by cmgww

[colts89]

its called respect, and wanting to win for somebody.

if a team has this for a coach, then they can be almost unstoppable

[swflacoltsfans]

Take Peyton away from Dungy and what you have left is Caldwell.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

I have heard stories all over of our players openly saying they loved and respected Dungy. That the loved playing for him. That there is no other like him nor will there ever be. I have also heard that guys in the draft wanted to be drafted by the Colts because they wanted to play for Dungy. Because they respected Dungy, and we were a winning team. Dungy inspired his team to play because he had the respect of his players. They wanted to win for him. To make him proud. Much like a father. If we were losing, we would see adjustments at half. Unlike now days. If there was a flag thrown, Dungy would actually talk to the ref as to wth was going on. If there was an obvious questionable play, out came the red flag, more times than not. If we scored a TD or a FG, we actually saw Dungy smiling and clapping his hands. or saying "money"...

The only thing that is the same here for Caldwell and Dungy? Caldwell never goes for it on 4th down. And even thats not the same. At least with 2 minutes to go Dungy would go for it on 4th down. Unlike Caldwell.

Caldwell was a failure in college, and hes a failure in the NFL. I don't know why we gave him the HC job in the first place. I don't see players in the draft that suck, make it on any roster. Accept for maybe the colts, maybe that cuz Caldwell wants some company. The list goes on. Its obvious the difference.

[JoKeR]

The only reason Caldwell is here is because of continuity. That continuity is doing Jack for this team. Im sure by now the players have come to grips that Dungy isn't here anymore and Caldwell is not Dungy 2.0. Caldwell shouldn't have been anything but a bridge to the next era and maybe win a championship with that continuity before they found the next HC that will start the next era.

That bridge is on fire now so they better run to the other side fast.

[Jaric]

I actually prefer that they left it all out on the grid! ... because you can work with less talented guys, but you can't work with quitters.

As the great Lombardi said: Winners never quit and quitters never win!

In this case, I'm not sure which is preferable. Quitters might never win, but guys who suck don't win all that much either.

[torgodog]

Well, I'd say Dungy was a lot luckier than Caldwell.

Dungy never had to face a season without Manning and have to rely on Sorgi.

Dungy dealt with team injuries, but nothing to the extent Caldwell has had to deal with last season and this season.

[Horseshoes_fan15]

Here's a major difference: Tony Dungy won elsewhere. He had a winning record at Tampa Bay and made them contenders. Jim Caldwell? Well lets just say he lost a lot at Wake Forest.

[doogansquest]

The players never quit playing for Dungy and were inspired by him. They've obviously quit listening to Caldwell. Tony dungy can inspire his team to play better and faster.

If they quit listening to a guy who is allegedly a terrible coach, wouldn't that mean they should be winning?

[Jaric]

If they quit listening to a guy who is allegedly a terrible coach, wouldn't that mean they should be winning?

That's not generally how it works.

[Jaric]

The difference between the two is that Dungy was stoic. Caldwell is catatonic.

Teams take on the persona of their coach. It's the oldest cliche out there, but it's true. Why is Reggie Wayne suddenly a zombie?