RG 3

[jvan1973]

I thought his passes looked crisp and were on target for the most part. The game was within one score in the second half until his SP let up another huge return allowing the Cowboys to go two scores. It was a terrible effort on SP more than any other facet of the game.

he was 19-39 with two turnovers. How is that crisp?

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

he was 19-39 with two turnovers. How is that crisp?

It wasn't just the stats.  When he missed on throws he missed by a mile.  Threw a couple about 10 yards out of bounds, and he had at least 2 passes that should have been picked off.  It's almost like Griffin is getting his legs back so he's having to adjust his throwing motion and foot planting again.  I'm sure he will get much better, but he was god awful Sunday night.

[amfootball]

I'm sorry but how can you say that if you watched the game?  He looked like he didn't know how to throw a football on half his drop backs.  You can not seriously tell me RG3 looked good passing in that game.  That was his worst throwing performance I have ever seen him have.

You really either need to rewatch the game or check the stat lines. Griff threw for 246 yards, ran for 77 and Morris ran for another 81. The Redskins offense put up 433 total yards of offense to just 213 for Dallas. The game was 21-16 heading into the fourth which would have been 16-14 skins if the Skins SP did not let up a Punt return for a TD and then of course Dallas ripped off another huge return in the fourth to set up the put away TD. Like I said, SP cost the skins the game. Griff led a solid attack all night with the only blemish being the inabilty to convert FGs into TDs.

[Dustin]

You really either need to rewatch the game or check the stat lines. Griff threw for 246 yards, ran for 77 and Morris ran for another 81. The Redskins offense put up 433 total yards of offense to just 213 for Dallas. The game was 21-16 heading into the fourth which would have been 16-14 skins if the Skins SP did not let up a Punt return for a TD and then of course Dallas ripped off another huge return in the fourth to set up the put away FG. Like I said, SP cost the skins the game. Griff led a solid attack all night with the only blemish being the inabilty to convert FGs into TDs.

yeah you definitely didn't watch the game. Griffin was awful as a passer all night.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

You really either need to rewatch the game or check the stat lines. Griff threw for 246 yards, ran for 77 and Morris ran for another 81. The Redskins offense put up 433 total yards of offense to just 213 for Dallas. The game was 21-16 heading into the fourth which would have been 16-14 skins if the Skins SP did not let up a Punt return for a TD and then of course Dallas ripped off another huge return in the fourth to set up the put away FG. Like I said, SP cost the skins the game. Griff led a solid attack all night with the only blemish being the inabilty to convert FGs into TDs.

What are you talking about?  The argument was over how Griffin threw the ball.  I didn't argue anything about the special teams and said his running was good, so why are you arguing those things to make your point?  You seriously have ZERO football knowledge if you came out of that game thinking RG3 threw the ball well.  You obviously did not WATCH the game.  And If you did, then you have no clue as to what you were watching. 

[amfootball]

What are you talking about?  The argument was over how Griffin threw the ball.  I didn't argue anything about the special teams and said his running was good, so why are you arguing those things to make your point?  You seriously have ZERO football knowledge if you came out of that game thinking RG3 threw the ball well.  You obviously did not WATCH the game.  And If you did, then you have no clue as to what you were watching. 

That is what I have been arguing. That Griff had his best game running the offense. Hello!? I just said his passing was not horrible which it was not. He had more first downs then Romo, a much better third down conversion rate, more yardage, etc. His percentage was low because he had to wing the ball at the end because his special teams were so awful.

[jvan1973]

That is what I have been arguing. That Griff had his best game running the offense. Hello!? I just said his passing was nor horrible which it was not. He had more first downs then Romo, a much better third down conversion rate, more yardage, etc. His percentage was low because he had to wing the ball at the end because his special teams were so awful.

49% completion rate and two turnovers. Yeah, he was awesome

[dw49]

I don't think RG has looked that bad the last couple of games. I think his defense is just plain awful not to mention his special teams.

 

I agree about Luck. He is the more pure pocket passer and can run if needed. Not sure why Pep is not letting him throw more as he can do it with the best of them but right now he near the bottom 5 of the league in passing.

 

 

I agree with all of the above and I don't by any means think RG3 is a bad QB. My point is that when RG3 came out , this was the issue where many had Luck rated way above him. RG3 played in a system that allowed him to only have one read. Never played under center and for these reasons , he would have a learning curve ( for the NFL game) before reaching his full potential. I'm of the opinion that Shanahan in his desire to win now , decided to skip the learning curve and as a result you will have a guy that is prone to injury and never reach his full potential.

 

 

As far as this Colt staff , I agree with you that Luck should be given a bit more early in a game rather than depend on him to win it late. I'm also not a fan of Pagano's old school , ultra conservative coaching style.

[Dustin]

That is what I have been arguing. That Griff had his best game running the offense. Hello!? I just said his passing was not horrible which it was not. He had more first downs then Romo, a much better third down conversion rate, more yardage, etc. His percentage was low because he had to wing the ball at the end because his special teams were so awful.

his passing was awful 49 completion% and 6.3 YPA are atrocious. Those are Tebow-like numbers.

[amfootball]

I agree with all of the above and I don't by any means think RG3 is a bad QB. My point is that when RG3 came out , this was the issue where many had Luck rated way above him. RG3 played in a system that allowed him to only have one read. Never played under center and for these reasons , he would have a learning curve ( for the NFL game) before reaching his full potential. I'm of the opinion that Shanahan in his desire to win now , decided to skip the learning curve and as a result you will have a guy that is prone to injury and never reach his full potential.

 

 

As far as this Colt staff , I agree with you that Luck should be given a bit more early in a game rather than depend on him to win it late. I'm also not a fan of Pagano's old school , ultra conservative coaching style.

Good points. I am not sure Shanny skipped the progression based reading but went with Griff's other areas of strengths. He is not the first QB to not do progression based reading but I would think he would need to develop more. I guess the question is whether he can't or if the Skins are running an O that does not allow for him to do it. I also think every coach wants to win now but Shanny is in a tough spot which I was saying all off-season. He has an injured QB who is a real threat with his legs. What to do? You can see how good that Redskin O can be when he is dual threat but at what cost? Very tough spot for Shanny and to boot his team is just not very good. Just when his defense looked decent against the Cowboys, his special teams were lit up.

 

I think Pagano's hire was a direct result of Irsay wanting to get as far away from the Polian model as possible. The only issue is Luck is your best player and could be the next Elway as he was touted out of college. So the thinking seems off to me. Perhaps over time as they continue to draft and acquire FAs things will round out. But I think the number one pick for Richardson was huge bell ringer that the Colts are bent on being very different from the Manning years.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

That is what I have been arguing. That Griff had his best game running the offense. Hello!? I just said his passing was not horrible which it was not. He had more first downs then Romo, a much better third down conversion rate, more yardage, etc. His percentage was low because he had to wing the ball at the end because his special teams were so awful.

Hello?  I only was arguing about Griffin's throwing. If your going to keep arguing with these stats like this, then just admit you didn't actually watch the game, and we can move on.  If you did watch it, and your analysis of RG3's passing performance was "not horrible" then remind me to never take anything you say on this forum seriously ever again.

[amfootball]

Hello?  I only was arguing about Griffin's throwing. If your going to keep arguing with these stats like this, then just admit you didn't actually watch the game, and we can move on.  If you did watch it, and your analysis of RG3's passing performance was "not horrible" then remind me to never take anything you say on this forum seriously ever again.

Eli Manning is horrible (this year anyways). Matt Schaub has been horrible lately. Griff was decent, not great, nothing special but he outplayed Romo passing. Again my point was his overall ability to run the O. Sorry if my post a few ones back was confusing. 

[House]

Hello? I only was arguing about Griffin's throwing. If your going to keep arguing with these stats like this, then just admit you didn't actually watch the game, and we can move on. If you did watch it, and your analysis of RG3's passing performance was "not horrible" then remind me to never take anything you say on this forum seriously ever again.

It's much easier to have an opinion, than it is to inform yourself .

[dw49]

Good points. I am not sure Shanny skipped the progression based reading but went with Griff's other areas of strengths. His not the first QB to not do progression based reading but I would think he would need to develop more. I guess the question is whether he can't or if the Skins are running an O that does not allow for him to do it. I also think every coach wants to win now but Shanny is in a tough spot which I was saying all off-season. He has an injured QB who is a real threat with his legs. What to do? You can see how good that Redskin O can be when he is dual threat but at what cost? Very tough spot for Shanny and to boot his team is just not very good. Just when his defense looked decent against the Cowboys, his special teams were lit up.

 

I think Pagano's hire was a direct result of Irsay wanting to get as far away from the Polian model as possible. The only issue is Luck is your best player and could be the next Elway as he was touted out of college. So the thinking seems off to me. Perhaps over time as they continue to draft and acquire FAs things will round out. But I think the number one pick for Richardson was huge bell ringer that the Colts are bent on being very different from the Manning years.

 

Good post for a girl (kidding of coarse) , the only things I would add is the NFL will and already has somewhat adjusted to the QB's that use the run option . This does appear the offense that the Skins want to get back to as they are now running far more run option plays. So we'll see how that whole thing develops. 

 

Polian did take Edge in that 1999 draft and turned down a monster offer besides to trade that pick. So not sure about the Richardson analogy. He also stated before the 2012 draft that Richardson was as good a player as Luck and RG3. I think the only "model" Polian had that was really bad was he may have figured that Manning could cover up a bad O line. Even there he spent a lot of draft picks trying to upgrade it.

 

I think the unbalanced team was a result of over paying to keep players in Indy and just plain horrible drafting the last 5-6 years. Or call it his son's Chris' influence .

 

Other words , I'm not sure what the heck Irsay is really talking about. The first thing Grigson did in 2012 was make sure Luck had weapons .. just like Polian made sure to do in the Manning years. I'm sure Polian tried like heck to run the ball better and stop the run . Problem is that when you draft 30th every year , you often take the BPA and like I say he really made some bad resigning decisions which strapped the cap so badly that we couldn't even field a decent special teams unit. Kind of the way things played out after putting his John Hancock on all those "record deals." 

[shakedownstreet]

amfootball was the one who started threads stating how fantastic tebow looked in the preseason

[jvan1973]

amfootball was the one who started threads stating how fantastic tebow looked in the preseason

wonder what he is doing now days?

[bap1331]

Comparing RG3 to Vince Young is a bit premature. People need to realize while Luck got another offseason to develop RG3 had to focus on rehab and did not get to use this offseason to work on his skills.

The guy showed last year he can get it done in the league. Now if next season comes and he has not progressed then I would be a bit worried.

No excuses, Rg3 should have played in preseason and been decent by now with a 3-2 or gone with Cousins and still have a playoff chance

[Thewholefnshow28]

No excuses, Rg3 should have played in preseason and been decent by now with a 3-2 or gone with Cousins and still have a playoff chance

You would not be saying that if it was Luck coming off an ACL. You would be sating take your time because we got years to go. They have probably another 9-10 years to look forward to so rushing him back would have been silly for Tue future of the franchise. What happens if they rush him back to soon and hr suffers a setback or reinjures it?

Like I said if next season he is struggling and underperforming after another offseason then the Redskins should be worried.

[WastedColt]

He was rushed back onto the field. His knee is still less than 100% Cousins should have started the first 4-6 games to let RG3 heal. I'm guessing there was pressure from the GM to get him out there considering that the team sold out about 3 years to draft him.

[SkyBane]

He was rushed back onto the field. His knee is still less than 100% Cousins should have started the first 4-6 games to let RG3 heal. I'm guessing there was pressure from the GM to get him out there considering that the team sold out about 3 years to draft him.

I still hate that the skins did that. The price was far, far too high for a single player. Nobody is worth the price they paid just coming out of college, especially since it left them with nothing to build around their guy with. RG3 was honestly doomed the moment the the Redskins took him because of all they gave up to do it

[oldunclemark]

Must win Sunday vs. the Bears

Washington (1-4) has Denver at Denver next so they're looking at 1-6

Usually Jay Cutler will give you a key game but he better for Robert's sake..

At 1-6, its going to be nine weeks of pain for RG3

[shakedownstreet]

I still hate that the skins did that. The price was far, far too high for a single player. Nobody is worth the price they paid just coming out of college, especially since it left them with nothing to build around their guy with. RG3 was honestly doomed the moment the the Redskins took him because of all they gave up to do it

 

ricky cough... williams cough.. mike cough.. ditka cough..cough..cough..

[Synthetic]

They gave up way too much for him to begin with.

 

Morris is the real MVP of that offense. Take away their running game and what happens? We all know Griffin isn't as "elite" as the media had you think last season. But Morris was the shadowed horse of that offense last year that carried the load. That team was extremely, and I mean extremely lucky to even go 10-6 last year with all the problems they had. It will not happen again. For starters, Dan Synder has already run this team in the ground the minute they traded everything for Griffin with no draft picks to build talent around him. I saw it years ago when "genius" Mike Ditka did the same thing to draft Ricky Williams. The Saints made the playoffs ONE YEAR in Williams entire career. The other problem is the coach. They hired a burnt out lightbulb that got his rings riding the coat tails of a HoF QB/RB combo and has been proven for the last decade that he's not a solid coach.

 

 

 

Oh yeah did I mention Dan Synder still owns the team? The flowers died years ago the minute he bought the team and haven't grown back ever since. Some say Griffin is the next Vince Young, that's a fair comparison if you discount the behavior issues. I'm actually surprised he don't constantly get a free pass the same way Tebow did. I mean, he's a good kid! He's not doing anything embarrassing off the field and he is role model like! For every bad play Tebow made and how god awful he looked, that was always the excuse. If you want proof the media is incredibly biased and created that whole love affair to begin with, look no further.

 

To me, he's like Michael Vick, but not near as fun to watch or the same level. The poor man's Vick, if you will. They both run around at the wrong times, trying to play ball hogs, and hold onto the ball too long, but I don't think he's the "next" Vick at all. Part of the reason Vick has had success is he had good coaches in Atlanta opposed to the burnt out fuse that Griffin has. Plus, for as much hell we give Vick for bad throws at one time, he could throw deep and nail it. At one time he was a nice looking quarterback in Atlanta behind a team that was far better than anything Griffin is going to get by a Synder run and Shanahan coached unit. Those old Atlanta teams were good, and the playoffs proved it when they would at least win one game before blowing it.

[smittywerb]

The Redskins did not have a good team last year either - 22nd in points allowed which was worse then the Colts who were at 21. This year the bottom has fallen out of the Redskins with 27 allowed in points and yards.

 

True but:

 

- Redkins had the #1 rushing attack in the league.  Everyone knows what a good rushing attack will do for a QB.  Now the option has been figured out, RG3 has struggled as of late.

 

- Moss, Garcon, and others proved to be viable weapons while Luck had Wayne, inconsistent Hilton (at the time), etc.

 

- Defense was good IMO because they performed when needed.  May not have been all game, but they could step up.  

 

- RG3 wasn't asked to do much and people heralded him.  Now when he is given similar circumstances that Luck still plays with (no blocking, running game sucks, etc.) and has to throw the ball over 25 times and shows that he's not ready, it's time to blame the team, not him.  But when luck was running for his life, people were quick to point out his INT's and say "He makes bad decisions at times" (WHAT QB DOESN'T?")  Point blank, RG3 has a long way to go.  He still needs to improve on reading coverages, looking off defenders, and some more.  RG3 is good and can be good, but I think he bit off a bit more than he can chew.  

[amfootball]

True but:

 

- Redkins had the #1 rushing attack in the league.  Everyone knows what a good rushing attack will do for a QB.  Now the option has been figured out, RG3 has struggled as of late.

 

- Moss, Garcon, and others proved to be viable weapons while Luck had Wayne, inconsistent Hilton (at the time), etc.

 

- Defense was good IMO because they performed when needed.  May not have been all game, but they could step up.  

 

- RG3 wasn't asked to do much and people heralded him.  Now when he is given similar circumstances that Luck still plays with (no blocking, running game sucks, etc.) and has to throw the ball over 25 times and shows that he's not ready, it's time to blame the team, not him.  But when luck was running for his life, people were quick to point out his INT's and say "He makes bad decisions at times" (WHAT QB DOESN'T?")  Point blank, RG3 has a long way to go.  He still needs to improve on reading coverages, looking off defenders, and some more.  RG3 is good and can be good, but I think he bit off a bit more than he can chew.  

Part of that rushing attack was led by Griffin and that really is the whole point. He is a dual threat QB who opens both the run and the pass for his team when he is healthy and in synch with his offense. That just isn't the case this year.

 

The Skins defense was not very good at all last year but they did have their moments. Certainly Luck's defense did more in big moments to cover his 23 TO's.

 

Luck got an awful lot of praise last year so I am not sure why you are so defensive about him. Even with all his TOs, he had a bunch of fourth quarter comebacks and made the playoffs.

 

In terms of this year, not sure how much you want to be touting Luck over RG. Luck's stats are in the bottom third of the league. His team is largely winning due to the run game and defense which is intentional from the coaching staff as far as I can tell. After today, you may be looking at 4-3 which is just one game over .500 and an intense battle with TN and Houston (assuming they work out their issues) for the division.

 

But in general, I don't think one season plus 7 games really determines anything between these two QBs. I don't think that will be determined by the end of the season either. It needs a few years to see how these guys mature and what their respective orgs do to improve their success rate. Right now the Colts have done more for Luck to succeed this year then the Skins have for RG.

[braveheartcolt]

Part of that rushing attack was led by Griffin and that really is the whole point. He is a dual threat QB who opens both the run and the pass for his team when he is healthy and in synch with his offense. That just isn't the case this year.

 

The Skins defense was not very good at all last year but they did have their moments. Certainly Luck's defense did more in big moments to cover his 23 TO's.

 

Luck got an awful lot of praise last year so I am not sure why you are so defensive about him. Even with all his TOs, he had a bunch of fourth quarter comebacks and made the playoffs.

 

In terms of this year, not sure how much you want to be touting Luck over RG. Luck's stats are in the bottom third of the league. His team is largely winning due to the run game and defense which is intentional from the coaching staff as far as I can tell. After today, you may be looking at 4-3 which is just one game over .500 and an intense battle with TN and Houston (assuming they work out their issues) for the division.

 

But in general, I don't think one season plus 7 games really determines anything between these two QBs. I don't think that will be determined by the end of the season either. It needs a few years to see how these guys mature and what their respective orgs do to improve their success rate. Right now the Colts have done more for Luck to succeed this year then the Skins have for RG.

Luck is performing better as a QB than Griffin. I've watched all their games. I'm touting that whether you like it or not. Sorry.

[Qwiz]

So because Griffin, a dual-threat QB, is still obviously not in the same place he was when it comes to running last year, has a horrid defense and has lost some games this year and doesn't have as good a  record as Andy, is the one who benefits from Morris instead of it being a mutual thing between the two of them, and he is automatically a worse QB than Andy and will fade into oblivion like VY. Sounds legit.

[braveheartcolt]

So because Griffin, a dual-threat QB, is still obviously not in the same place he was when it comes to running last year, has a horrid defense and has lost some games this year and doesn't have as good a  record as Andy, is the one who benefits from Morris instead of it being a mutual thing between the two of them, and he is automatically a worse QB than Andy and will fade into oblivion like VY. Sounds legit.

Who are you responding too?

[Qwiz]

Who are you responding too?

No one in particular, it's more of a combination of several arguments I've seen in this thread and on the forum by certain posters. I'm being sarcastic for the people who take things to the extreme when it comes to this whole young QB thing. It's only year two, and we have a lot of football to see between all these young guys.

[dw49]

No one in particular, it's more of a combination of several arguments I've seen in this thread and on the forum by certain posters. I'm being sarcastic for the people who take things to the extreme when it comes to this whole young QB thing. It's only year two, and we have a lot of football to see between all these young guys.

So it's not OK to compare these guys yet ? Or it's not OK to say you don't think Shanahan is doing the best thing as far as RG3's development. It's extreme saying the NFL is catching up with QB's that depend on the read option to move the ball ? Gosh... about 50% of the pre game shows are guys talking about the young QB's , the run option , Kapernik, R Wilson , RG3and Luck.  It's like you said a few months ago... it's only natural for you to say your guy Schaub > than Luck. That's a pretty accurate quote from you... no ? But we're a bunch of jerks if we think Luck > then RG# ?  I guess I don't get it.

[Qwiz]

So it's not OK to compare these guys yet ? Or it's not OK to say you don't think Shanahan is doing the best thing as far as RG3's development. It's extreme saying the NFL is catching up with QB's that depend on the read option to move the ball ? Gosh... about 50% of the pre game shows are guys talking about the young QB's , the run option , Kapernik, R Wilson , RG3and Luck. It's like you said a few months ago... it's only natural for you to say your guy Schaub > than Luck. That's a pretty accurate quote from you... no ? But we're a bunch of jerks if we think Luck > then RG# ? I guess I don't get it.

The argument used to come to that conclusion is a ridiculous one. Don't try to twist my meanings. Of course you think he is better....but because he's won a few more games this season? No bueno.

[dw49]

The argument used to come to that conclusion is a ridiculous one. Don't try to twist my meanings. Of course you think he is better....but because he's won a few more games this season? No bueno.

 

 

The ultimate twister tells someone not to twist what he says. LOL  BTW.. the argument is that one player has significant weaknesses in his game and the other player does not.

[Qwiz]

The ultimate twister tells someone not to twist what he says. LOL BTW.. the argument is that one player has significant weaknesses in his game and the other player does not.

The ultimate pot stirrer comes back swinging. LOL. And maybe you say that is the argument now but it isn't that way with everyone. Don't even pretend like it is.

[Dustin]

He was great today.

[Jules]

Did Jay Cutler get hurt?

[jvan1973]

Did Jay Cutler get hurt?

yes, groin injury.

[shakedownstreet]

Did Jay Cutler get hurt?

 

groin injury. actually i think he is a groin injury

[shakedownstreet]

The ultimate twister tells someone not to twist what he says. LOL  BTW.. the argument is that one player has significant weaknesses in his game and the other player does not.

 

 

The ultimate pot stirrer comes back swinging. LOL. And maybe you say that is the argument now but it isn't that way with everyone. Don't even pretend like it is.

 

you ladies need to get a room

[Jules]

yes, groin injury.

 

Well that sucks.

[Qwiz]

you ladies need to get a room

More like a boxing ring and two pairs of gloves to make sure things are even