Tony Dungy says he would consider benching RG3 IF...

[amfootball]

i think he is a self absorbed me me player

Yet his teammates and the whole city of DC love him.

[jvan1973]

Yet his teammates and the whole city of DC love him.

for now

[Balzer40]

The plain and simple fact is...he is who he is...and that's a runner. He does not have the skills right now to be a traditional pocket QB despite what some of his lovers will say. He is absolutely stinking it up right now until their behind by 30 points and the defense goes into a prevent and makes it easy for him. When he is forced to face pressure and make reads, he can't do it. Whether he can develop it or not is yet to be seen. Without the threat of him taking off, defense's are not worried about him beating them with his arm...because he can't.

[amfootball]

for now

why would it change?

[jvan1973]

why would it change?

fans and teammates love wins. Without the fear of the read option he isnt going to be a star imo

[amfootball]

fans and teammates love wins. Without the fear of the read option he isnt going to be a star imo

And he won his division last year. And climbed out of a worse hole at 3-6 then 0-2. Jumping the gun I think.

[Qwiz]

Griffin has smarts , a strong quick release and an accurate arm. Shanahan had two choices in 2012. Run an offense that his doctor just said he shouldn't be running or teach the kid to learn how to read defenses and operate from the pocket like all the MVP's , HOFer's that now head the lists of all time great QB's . Even without considering what Andrews says , if you go by history Qb's with great rushing yardage often had careers cut short by concussion issues. Where we are now is he hasn't proved that he can excell from the pocket like he's being asked to do.

Well now is the time to refine his skill I guess. He is like any other QB where if you take away their strengths then their game will falter. Griffin was better making plays in the pocket while at the same time being a threat to throw it deep. Now we will see what he can be capable of as he gets more comfortable.

[jvan1973]

And he won his division last year. And climbed out of a worse hole at 3-6 then 0-2. Jumping the gun I think.

he also had the option to rely on. they aren't letting him run now.

[amfootball]

he also had the option to rely on. they aren't letting him run now.

True but I guess it depends if you think the offensive woes are that simple. I don't. He is rehabbing and throwing off his back foot. Those would still be bigger issues even if they were running the option. Also, the offense has been designed to run the read option so not sure the personnel around him is as good either. Throw in an injured and terrible defense on top and you have a terrible start all the way around. No Qb is Superman. Shanny better figure it out soon though. Next two games are very winnable with Detroit and Raiders. If they come out 2-2 all will be well again.

[dw49]

Well now is the time to refine his skill I guess. He is like any other QB where if you take away their strengths then their game will falter. Griffin was better making plays in the pocket while at the same time being a threat to throw it deep. Now we will see what he can be capable of as he gets more comfortable.

 

 

The question on Griffin coming out of college was that he never was asked at Baylor to make anything similar to reads he would need to play as a "pocket passer " in the NFL. So IMO the jury remains out on that issue.

 

Are you talking about how he looked in garbage time this year or how he looked playing in the read option last year ? I'm glad your saying "comfortable" rather than "rust" as some have eluded to. Just the full game one would be far more than what a few quarters of preseason football would do as far as "working the rust off." 

[Qwiz]

The question on Griffin coming out of college was that he never was asked at Baylor to make anything similar to reads he would need to play as a "pocket passer " in the NFL. So IMO the jury remains out on that issue.

 

Are you talking about how he looked in garbage time this year or how he looked playing in the read option last year ? I'm glad your saying "comfortable" rather than "rust" as some have eluded to. Just the full game one would be far more than what a few quarters of preseason football would do as far as "working the rust off." 

Yeah I was referring to how he played last year. Him being hurt is affecting their run game negatively too. If he returns to at least a bit of form in the next two games then I think the Redskins will be fine. Offensively, anyway. Not sure about that defense yet.

[amfootball]

The question on Griffin coming out of college was that he never was asked at Baylor to make anything similar to reads he would need to play as a "pocket passer " in the NFL. So IMO the jury remains out on that issue.

 

Are you talking about how he looked in garbage time this year or how he looked playing in the read option last year ? I'm glad your saying "comfortable" rather than "rust" as some have eluded to. Just the full game one would be far more than what a few quarters of preseason football would do as far as "working the rust off." 

Not every play was read option last year for the skins. He ran a mix of traditional pocket plays with read option. I don't see as much issue with his reads as with his throws. He has not been accurate because he is throwing off his back foot. Not sure if calling it rust is the right description as much as him getting back to normal throwing form and trusting that his knee is 100 percent which it may not be at this point. He is also getting used to a new style of offense like Luck is so there will be some growing pains that should smooth out as the season goes along.

[Superman]

The question on Griffin coming out of college was that he never was asked at Baylor to make anything similar to reads he would need to play as a "pocket passer " in the NFL. So IMO the jury remains out on that issue.

 

Are you talking about how he looked in garbage time this year or how he looked playing in the read option last year ? I'm glad your saying "comfortable" rather than "rust" as some have eluded to. Just the full game one would be far more than what a few quarters of preseason football would do as far as "working the rust off."

Very little of what the Redskins do in their passing game is traditional, progression-based passing. Lots of one read passing, lots of hot reads, very simple concepts. And there's nothing wrong with that, given the success they had with a rookie QB last year. And their run game was obviously very good.

But the problem after a while is that the fewer passing options there are on a given pass play, the easier it is for the defense to stop the passing game. What I've noticed is the Redskins doing a lot of their simple passing concepts, not getting open receivers, and Griffin taking pressure but being reluctant to take off.

[dw49]

Not every play was read option last year for the skins. He ran a mix of traditional pocket plays with read option. I don't see as much issue with his reads as with his throws. He has not been accurate because he is throwing off his back foot. Not sure if calling it rust is the right description as much as him getting back to normal throwing form and trusting that his knee is 100 percent which it may not be at this point. He is also getting used to a new style of offense like Luck is so there will be some growing pains that should smooth out as the season goes along.

 

 

I think a bit more to it than that , but I'm just a fan who's a bit limited to really speak on this.

[dw49]

Very little of what the Redskins do in their passing game is traditional, progression-based passing. Lots of one read passing, lots of hot reads, very simple concepts. And there's nothing wrong with that, given the success they had with a rookie QB last year. And their run game was obviously very good.

But the problem after a while is that the fewer passing options there are on a given pass play, the easier it is for the defense to stop the passing game. What I've noticed is the Redskins doing a lot of their simple passing concepts, not getting open receivers, and Griffin taking pressure but being reluctant to take off.

 

 

I'm sure he's being told to limit his running. Before this all plays out , by this I mean last year's fad , read option .. Qb's on pace to rush for 1000 yards , they will find the odds favor guys like Bradshaw , Unitas , Marino , Montana . Not Qb's like the often concussed Steve Young . 

[LockeDown]

I heard a stat. Only 20% of teams that start 0-2 make the playoffs. The redskins were a playoff team last year and now they might not be because of Griffin. That's why you start Cousins at the beginning of the year and let Griffin come in when his mechanics are good enough. If not, so be it. Play the season out while he rehabs.

[LockeDown]

Everytime Dungy opens his mouth it always confirms that he was and is one of the most overrated coaches of all time. He and Harrison must have been been smoking some of Miller's week during that long lightning break.

 

This quote from Abraham Lincoln perfectly sums up their "thoughts": "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."

Dungy smoking weed? Abraham Lincoln would tell you to heed his advice as well.

[jvan1973]

Dungy smoking weed? Abraham Lincoln would tell you to heed his advice as well.

this is the same person that said Tebow was the best backup qb in the nfl.

[LockeDown]

this is the same person that said Tebow was the best backup qb in the nfl.

I thought he was dead. Lincoln is usually right though.

[RGIII]

I have never seen more bad analysis in my life than I have over the past few weeks as it pertains to the Skins.  From ESPN right on down to everyday sports talk between fans, it's been pretty atrocious.

 

Very little of what the Redskins do in their passing game is traditional, progression-based passing. Lots of one read passing, lots of hot reads, very simple concepts. And there's nothing wrong with that, given the success they had with a rookie QB last year. And their run game was obviously very good.

But the problem after a while is that the fewer passing options there are on a given pass play, the easier it is for the defense to stop the passing game. What I've noticed is the Redskins doing a lot of their simple passing concepts, not getting open receivers, and Griffin taking pressure but being reluctant to take off.

 

That's actually not true.  The component of our offense that doesn't include the packaged/option play is pretty traditional in terms of reads and we haven't been running any of those packaged/option plays this season.  The dropback passing stuff we've been doing is a direct descendent of what you would have seen from the Broncos or Texans back in 2008 in just about all respects and those were NEVER regarded as simple passing systems.

 

If you want to know what's wrong with our offense in 2013 you have to look at what we're not doing, not at what we are doing.  We are not running the ball well, we are not running the read option at all, we are not running bootlegs, and we are scarcely using outside outside zone runs.  There is ZERO element of misdirection in this offense this year and that is the primary means through which we opened up passing lanes, forced defenses to hesitate, set up our big running plays, and, most importantly, protected RGIII from the pass rush last season.  We don't have a great traditional pass blocking offensive line but they are a freakishly athletic group and they do good work when we get them moving.  Our line breaks down fairly quickly when they are merely pass protectors (Trent Williams aside, that man may be the best LT in the league).

 

Something's not right from a playcalling perspective.  All indications are that Griffin is legitimately healthy enough to be on the field and that he actually feels constrained by the way we're running things on offense right now, not the other way around.

 

Not every play was read option last year for the skins. He ran a mix of traditional pocket plays with read option. I don't see as much issue with his reads as with his throws. He has not been accurate because he is throwing off his back foot. Not sure if calling it rust is the right description as much as him getting back to normal throwing form and trusting that his knee is 100 percent which it may not be at this point. He is also getting used to a new style of offense like Luck is so there will be some growing pains that should smooth out as the season goes along.

 

I saw ESPN harping on the mechanics recently and how it represents a step back from last year... yeah, that's not true.  Griffin has always had a penchant for some ugly looking backfoot throws, especially as a rookie.  His saving grace is that on short-intermediate throws he tends to get the ball there even when falling backwards because of his natural, pure arm strength and ability to square up his shoulders properly and compensate for his off momentum.  On deeper passes his mechanics have tended to look much more crisp and he gets more leg drive.

 

This isn't a new style of offense, either, it's a very limited sample of the stuff we ran last year.  Our coaching staff would need to add a lot more depth and wrinkles to what we've been doing for it to constitute a new direction for the team, let alone become an actually effective direction.

[GoColts8818]

It's not just Colts fans who think RG3 did a little too much during his intro and return.  Boomer Esiason was all over him for it on the radio and he pointed out that when Tom Brady came back from a similar injury and Peyton Manning came back from maybe having his career ended they just ran out on the field like normal and he encouraged RG3 to act like the best two QBs in the game and not draw more unneeded attention to himself as he feels like the city of Washington already views him as some kinda football savior and that brings unrealistic expectations for any player that he doesn't help himself by encouraging it. 

[House]

It's not just Colts fans who think RG3 did a little too much during his intro and return. Boomer Esiason was all over him for it on the radio and he pointed out that when Tom Brady came back from a similar injury and Peyton Manning came back from maybe having his career ended they just ran out on the field like normal and he encouraged RG3 to act like the best two QBs in the game and not draw more unneeded attention to himself as he feels like the city of Washington already views him as some kinda football savior and that brings unrealistic expectations for any player that he doesn't help himself by encouraging it.

Hater.

[stat2883]

[[big block of text]]

touched on a couple things I was going to say...saves me the time of typing. Agree with pretty much everything.

[smittywerb]

I don't think rg3 is fully healed, I put this on him. He shouldn't never stayed in the media like he did and putting his coach and team on the hot seat. Now the skins are struggling and people wanna talk about benching rg3 when he shouldn't have never been back in the first place.

[jvan1973]

It's not just Colts fans who think RG3 did a little too much during his intro and return. Boomer Esiason was all over him for it on the radio and he pointed out that when Tom Brady came back from a similar injury and Peyton Manning came back from maybe having his career ended they just ran out on the field like normal and he encouraged RG3 to act like the best two QBs in the game and not draw more unneeded attention to himself as he feels like the city of Washington already views him as some kinda football savior and that brings unrealistic expectations for any player that he doesn't help himself by encouraging it.

you're wasting your breath.. Or finger prints in this case

[amfootball]

It's not just Colts fans who think RG3 did a little too much during his intro and return.  Boomer Esiason was all over him for it on the radio and he pointed out that when Tom Brady came back from a similar injury and Peyton Manning came back from maybe having his career ended they just ran out on the field like normal and he encouraged RG3 to act like the best two QBs in the game and not draw more unneeded attention to himself as he feels like the city of Washington already views him as some kinda football savior and that brings unrealistic expectations for any player that he doesn't help himself by encouraging it. 

That is great and all but RG is not Manning and Brady .. thankfully. We don't need more Qbs with robotic answers. RG should be himself. He is a magnetic guy who likes the limelight kind of like Favre. He is good for the game.

[amfootball]

I have never seen more bad analysis in my life than I have over the past few weeks as it pertains to the Skins.  From ESPN right on down to everyday sports talk between fans, it's been pretty atrocious.

 

 

That's actually not true.  The component of our offense that doesn't include the packaged/option play is pretty traditional in terms of reads and we haven't been running any of those packaged/option plays this season.  The dropback passing stuff we've been doing is a direct descendent of what you would have seen from the Broncos or Texans back in 2008 in just about all respects and those were NEVER regarded as simple passing systems.

 

If you want to know what's wrong with our offense in 2013 you have to look at what we're not doing, not at what we are doing.  We are not running the ball well, we are not running the read option at all, we are not running bootlegs, and we are scarcely using outside outside zone runs.  There is ZERO element of misdirection in this offense this year and that is the primary means through which we opened up passing lanes, forced defenses to hesitate, set up our big running plays, and, most importantly, protected RGIII from the pass rush last season.  We don't have a great traditional pass blocking offensive line but they are a freakishly athletic group and they do good work when we get them moving.  Our line breaks down fairly quickly when they are merely pass protectors (Trent Williams aside, that man may be the best LT in the league).

 

Something's not right from a playcalling perspective.  All indications are that Griffin is legitimately healthy enough to be on the field and that he actually feels constrained by the way we're running things on offense right now, not the other way around.

 

 

I saw ESPN harping on the mechanics recently and how it represents a step back from last year... yeah, that's not true.  Griffin has always had a penchant for some ugly looking backfoot throws, especially as a rookie.  His saving grace is that on short-intermediate throws he tends to get the ball there even when falling backwards because of his natural, pure arm strength and ability to square up his shoulders properly and compensate for his off momentum.  On deeper passes his mechanics have tended to look much more crisp and he gets more leg drive.

 

This isn't a new style of offense, either, it's a very limited sample of the stuff we ran last year.  Our coaching staff would need to add a lot more depth and wrinkles to what we've been doing for it to constitute a new direction for the team, let alone become an actually effective direction.

Thank you for taking the time to craft this. I have not watched all the snaps of the Redskins this season so your take is very insightful.

[mvbighead]

Don't know if it's just a question "of getting warmed up." The big question on RG3 going into the 2012 draft was how long it would take him to learn how to be a more "conventional " type QB... more in the mold of NFL QB's not college stuff. Many figured it could be around a two year learning process. What Shanahan decided to do was mold to Washington offense to fit RG3's skill set. Hence we saw a QB that rushed for 900 yards in about 14 games and we know all the rest .. no need to elaborate on how he was not your drop back QB. 

 

That said , he gets his bell rung in Shanahan's offense . Concussion , knee surgery ... big hits on not a big guy. So he comes back with a healthy knee and J Andrews publicly states that  he should not be running the read option. Evidently he feels two knee reconstructions in 4 years is enough for a while. Well guess what ... maybe those that doubted he could come from that spread thing they ran at Baylor and transform quickly to the NFL game might have been right. These are reads that he probably has never been asked to make and just maybe it's not going to be a quick process. 

 

So maybe "rust " as you imply or maybe a little more than that. It will be interesting to see if Shanahan starts to run an offense that looks a little more like 2012's. I think this will be the case unless it's just rust as you say.

 

The big question???  The big question leading up to the draft was whether or not the Colts would select RG3 or Luck.  I was pretty sure Luck was their guy, but analysts EVERYWHERE were calling RG3 more accurate, more this, and more that.  There were very few questions regarding RG3, and it was essentially a difference of 1A and 1B.

 

Heck, Shanny was practically holding hands with RG3 walking down hallways, giving him the playbook, and everything else because they new RG3 was their QB, unless by some off chance the Colts took him instead of Luck.  (The odds were much stronger the Colts were taking Luck, probably 90/10).  

 

As far as RG3 goes, the point still stands that RG3 has been pushing to get preseason time.  Saying he's healthy.  Doing everything he can to play.  So if you are the Redskins, do you deny the guy who you hope to be your franchise QB of the next decade the time he needs to get back out there?  Especially given what he did last year.

 

All in all, the guy is 26/40 3TDs and 1 pick in his last game.  Not bad numbers.  I don't care what the defense is doing, he is still getting it done from time to time.  He's getting acclimated.

 

If you're the type that benches your future franchise QB for performing poorly, you just as well sign your resignation letter, because committing a 2nd overall pick to a guy you bench is about the worst possible thing you can do for your job security.  Why do you think Ryan has stuck by Sanchez so long?  3 of Manning's first 4 seasons were marginal.  But the team stuck by their #1 overall guy, and it worked out well for them.

 

Point being, if your franchise guy is healthy enough to play, and he wants to play, you play him. Let him develop.  You only bench him when it is a near certainty that he will be cut from the team the following season, or when he is unable to be on the field due to injury.

[mvbighead]

I heard a stat. Only 20% of teams that start 0-2 make the playoffs. The redskins were a playoff team last year and now they might not be because of Griffin. That's why you start Cousins at the beginning of the year and let Griffin come in when his mechanics are good enough. If not, so be it. Play the season out while he rehabs.

 

Griffin doesn't have a mechanics problem.  His only problem is the uncertainty regarding his knee.  Their playing it safe in that regard, as they should until they are ready to give him more flexibility there.

 

Thus far, he has played two games, thrown for 300+ yards in each, and has thrown 5 TDs compared to 3 INTs.  Not great numbers, but for a guy who didn't get a snap in the preseason, he's merely getting warmed up.  And to be honest, he is posting solid enough numbers to keep playing.

[House]

And to be honest, he is posting solid enough numbers once the game is a blowout.

Fixed.

He can stack up garbage time stats all day, but he has to start getting his team into the game at the beginning.

[dw49]

The big question???  The big question leading up to the draft was whether or not the Colts would select RG3 or Luck.  I was pretty sure Luck was their guy, but analysts EVERYWHERE were calling RG3 more accurate, more this, and more that.  There were very few questions regarding RG3, and it was essentially a difference of 1A and 1B.

 

Heck, Shanny was practically holding hands with RG3 walking down hallways, giving him the playbook, and everything else because they new RG3 was their QB, unless by some off chance the Colts took him instead of Luck.  (The odds were much stronger the Colts were taking Luck, probably 90/10).  

 

As far as RG3 goes, the point still stands that RG3 has been pushing to get preseason time.  Saying he's healthy.  Doing everything he can to play.  So if you are the Redskins, do you deny the guy who you hope to be your franchise QB of the next decade the time he needs to get back out there?  Especially given what he did last year.

 

All in all, the guy is 26/40 3TDs and 1 pick in his last game.  Not bad numbers.  I don't care what the defense is doing, he is still getting it done from time to time.  He's getting acclimated.

 

If you're the type that benches your future franchise QB for performing poorly, you just as well sign your resignation letter, because committing a 2nd overall pick to a guy you bench is about the worst possible thing you can do for your job security.  Why do you think Ryan has stuck by Sanchez so long?  3 of Manning's first 4 seasons were marginal.  But the team stuck by their #1 overall guy, and it worked out well for them.

 

Point being, if your franchise guy is healthy enough to play, and he wants to play, you play him. Let him develop.  You only bench him when it is a near certainty that he will be cut from the team the following season, or when he is unable to be on the field due to injury.

 

 

Only an * would bench him. As far as not taking pre season snaps , he should have been totally caught up with that after 15 -20 passes. Starters barely play in pre season.. maybe a little more than 1 game all told. I can buy the "protecting the knee stuff' .. maybe. Benching him is ridiculous and I'm surprised Dungy even brought that up. My opinion is that the Skins will go back to running the read option as RG3 is not a pocket QB. Shananhan will say "urinate on what Dr Andrews says" and throw him back to the wolves.

[King Colt]

Mobility is what brought RG III to the dance. That is gone now. So he is RG II. If it does not come back he be LG ( Long Gone).

[LockeDown]

Griffin doesn't have a mechanics problem.  His only problem is the uncertainty regarding his knee.  Their playing it safe in that regard, as they should until they are ready to give him more flexibility there.

 

Thus far, he has played two games, thrown for 300+ yards in each, and has thrown 5 TDs compared to 3 INTs.  Not great numbers, but for a guy who didn't get a snap in the preseason, he's merely getting warmed up.  And to be honest, he is posting solid enough numbers to keep playing.

 

You missed the first sentence of my post.  The odds are against them (you) making the playoffs now because of the 0-2 start.  It's about the team and not RG3.  That's what we are saying, he ain't acting like a team player.  Sure, Peyton would have behaved the same way, but Peyton would have won the first 2 games and not played like crap for 3 quarters.

[JWF]

I watched some of the Redskins game and while Griffin isnt really playing well per say, he isnt the main problem. That defense is a complete and utter joke right now. That O-line is also looking pretty bad so far.

[mvbighead]

You missed the first sentence of my post.  The odds are against them (you) making the playoffs now because of the 0-2 start.  It's about the team and not RG3.  That's what we are saying, he ain't acting like a team player.  Sure, Peyton would have behaved the same way, but Peyton would have won the first 2 games and not played like crap for 3 quarters.

 

If an NFL franchise only focused on the here and now, no player would EVER develop.  Three of Manning's first four seasons were marginal.  If the team was focused on winning now, they'd have sought a QB ready to hit the field now.

 

Player development, like it or not, is a part of the game.  They may not make the playoffs this year, but they still have a possibility of doing that, and in the mean time, developing RG3's skills in the pocket.  Come next season, with improved pocket performance and a year into a healthy knee, he'll likely be lights out all over again.

 

Or, you could insist on starting Cousins, drive a wedge in the relationship with the team and its franchise QB, and potentially face an ugly situation that could lead to having to unload him in the future because you questioned his abilities as a passer.

 

To me, as much good as people like to say about Cousins, he's not a major improvement over the current RG3.  He might be a half a percentage point better, but he doesn't give them that much better of a chance to win games.  Like I've said, it takes time to get it going.  While Luck may've only played a full games worth of time in the preseason, he's had 4 weeks of seeing himself on film, noting his problems, and working on them during a week of practice.  If he only did 2 series a game, he'd still have 4 weeks worth to look at his problems and try to resolve them.  RG3 is just now getting that.

 

The sky is falling type of mentality sure doesn't stop with analyzing the Colts here, that's for sure.

[mvbighead]

Mobility is what brought RG III to the dance. That is gone now. So he is RG II. If it does not come back he be LG ( Long Gone).

 

Not likely.  Leading up to the draft, many analysts were saying that he was more accurate, more confident, more of a leader, blah blah blah.  I didn't buy any of that, but that's what they were saying in comparing him to Luck.  Many seemed to think of RG3 as 1a and Luck as 1b.  Not my opinion at all, but that's what they were saying.

 

As far as mobility, it certainly sets him apart, but it isn't the only thing that brought him to this dance.  Now, it is the only thing that brought one Tim Tebow to this dance, and while he still has mobility, he does not have the accuracy or arm to make himself a QB.  RG3 will likely still have a number of opportunities to pick it up over the next 2-3 seasons, based on his skills as a QB, a leader, etc.

[jvan1973]

That is great and all but RG is not Manning and Brady .. thankfully. We don't need more Qbs with robotic answers. RG should be himself. He is a magnetic guy who likes the limelight kind of like Favre. He is good for the game.

farve is nothing like bob

[amfootball]

farve is nothing like bob

Yeah, favre was worse.

[jvan1973]

Yeah, favre was worse.

please link to a video of him acting like a fool pregame.

[amfootball]

please link to a video of him acting like a fool pregame.

Pregame? he was a fool pretty much 24x7 the last 5 years of his career...