Welker still yapping...talks about Manning not throwing to him

[amfootball]

Are you Pat fans saying that because the free agent market went from a sellers market to a buyers market in 2013 , that the offer the Pat's made Welker "was over the market  ? " Funny but before I retired to sunny CA , I was in the produce industry and sold a lot of companies in the Boston area. I used to bite my tongue when discussing sports with these guys as they really were the worst . LOL and I do like you guys but some things just don't change. Below is an except from a Boston writer on this. I'll post the link to the whole article. Other than a few early signs this year players no doubt took way less money and many had to sign one year deals in hopes of getting what was market value just a year ago.

 

 

 

 

 

New England Patriots receiver Wes Welker does not have the long-term contract he desires, but on the first day of free agency, he might have gained something else -- reassurance of his value in the NFL marketplace.

 

Did you see all those contracts for receivers across the league?

 

In Tampa Bay, Vincent Jackson inked a reported five-year, $55.5 million pact. In Washington, the Redskins doubled up with Pierre Garcon (five years, $42.5 million) and Josh Morgan (two years, $12 million), while Marques Colston re-signed with New Orleans (five years, $40 million) and Reggie Wayne did the same in Indianapolis (three years, $17.5 million). Then late Tuesday,Robert Meachem agreed to a reported four-year, $25.9 million pact with the San Diego Chargers.

 

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While the structure of those contracts is vital to understanding their true value, on the surface, that's $193.4 million spent on six top receivers on the first day of free agency.

 

Then consider that the Chicago Bears traded two third-round draft choices for No. 1 receiver Brandon Marshall, and the opening of free agency was all about the wideout.

 

If you're Welker, who has caught more passes than any player in the NFL over the past five seasons, the deals set the framework for where contract talks would hopefully lead.

 

The Patriots' offer of two years for $16 million during the 2011 season, as reported by the Boston Globe, looks light based on present market conditions for a top receiver. Welker's $9.5 million franchise tag, although on a one-year term, fits more in line with pass-catchers at his level of performance on an average-per-year basis.

 

 

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/7684239/2012-nfl-free-agency-wes-welker-benefit-receivers-big-deals

Hi DW,

 

Not at all. Two seasons ago the Pats offered Welker then age 30 at two year deal at $16 mil. He turned it down because he wanted more years. 8mil at the time for a slot receiver was above market value. After that point, the Pats franchised him and paid him the $9.5 mil and everyone knew Welker was gone hence why Bill started phasing him out of the O last season in favor of Endleman.  

 

This past season the Pats offered a fair market value for him as no other team other than the Broncs came to the table for a 32 year old slot receiver (only a difference of $2 mll total between the two offers). Welker's agent is the one that mis-judged the market. A shame really as he could be making $8 mil with the Pats right now instead of $6 mil with the Broncs.

[dw49]

Hi DW,

 

Not at all. Two seasons ago the Pats offered Welker then age 30 at two year deal at $16 mil. He turned it down because he wanted more years. 8mil at the time for a slot receiver was above market value. After that point, the Pats franchised him and paid him the $9.5 mil and everyone knew Welker was gone hence why Bill started phasing him out of the O last season in favor of Endleman.  

 

This past season the Pats offered a fair market value for him as no other team other than the Broncs came to the table for a 32 year old slot receiver (only a difference of $2 mll total between the two offers). Welker's agent is the one that mis-judged the market. A shame really as he could be making $8 mil with the Pats right now instead of $6 mil with the Broncs.

 

 

Where the difference in opinion lies is whether or not that (2012) was an above market offer. At the time of the offer , I don't remember that being the "buzz." The guy that wrote the above doesn't agree either. I posted the article as it gives some decent argument why it wasn't. No doubt that this year, his agent and many other players misjudged the market . As far as money goes (taking the 2012 offer) , he's about in the same boat ... around 15.5 for 2012 and 2013. He just would have played an extra year with the Pats. 

 

Anyway... I really don't want to get into a battle on what Welker was worth in 2013. I think the point is he wanted to get rewarded for his great contribution from his first contract with the Pats. In his opinion it didn't happen and I agree with him that the 2012 offer was not above market value as you guys state. Was Welker worth more than what that offer was ? Ehhh... matter of opinion. Polian and Irsay probably for sure would have rewarded him and not chanced messing up the chemistry. IMO , the Pats are good business people and what they offered made sense to me.

[-JJ-]

I've made no comment thus far on Welker but will say this now. He was great in NE for the time and it is a loss. But with loss comes gains.

The day he was gone I was more glad than not so we could open up the offense without the binky.

There are lots of good football players and schemes that cannot prevail otherwise.

It is precisely change that has kept NE in the forefront.

[ViriLudant]

I have to chuckle at Wes's comments (and those like Super defending him) for being upset about BB "deriding" him in front of the others.

Are you ignoring the "just as he did with the rest of my teammates" part?

In other words, Welker said that BB treated him JUST like he treated everyone else.

Wow.

And yet he whines about it. He's incredibly immature, as we saw multiples times during his tenure in NE.

[Superman]

I have to chuckle at Wes's comments (and those like Super defending him) for being upset about BB "deriding" him in front of the others.

Are you ignoring the "just as he did with the rest of my teammates" part?

In other words, Welker said that BB treated him JUST like he treated everyone else.

Wow.

And yet he whines about it. He's incredibly immature, as we saw multiples times during his tenure in NE.

 

Incredibly immature because he doesn't like being derided in front of his teammates? Okay...

 

Like I said, I don't think anyone likes being treated that way. That a certain coach does it to everyone doesn't make it any better. I don't think it's whiny and immature. I do think it was a mistake for him to say it, because there's simply nothing positive that could come from it.

 

What I chuckle at is all these Pats fans who suddenly have all this negative commentary on Wes Welker. But a few months ago when Brady did his new contract, it was nothing but "now we'll be able to keep Welker, yaaaayyy!!! Brady's the best, yaaaayyyyy!!!" That's funny.

[amfootball]

I have to chuckle at Wes's comments (and those like Super defending him) for being upset about BB "deriding" him in front of the others.

Are you ignoring the "just as he did with the rest of my teammates" part?

In other words, Welker said that BB treated him JUST like he treated everyone else.

Wow.

And yet he whines about it. He's incredibly immature, as we saw multiples times during his tenure in NE.

THIS

[amfootball]

Where the difference in opinion lies is whether or not that (2012) was an above market offer. At the time of the offer , I don't remember that being the "buzz." The guy that wrote the above doesn't agree either. I posted the article as it gives some decent argument why it wasn't. No doubt that this year, his agent and many other players misjudged the market . As far as money goes (taking the 2012 offer) , he's about in the same boat ... around 15.5 for 2012 and 2013. He just would have played an extra year with the Pats. 

 

Anyway... I really don't want to get into a battle on what Welker was worth in 2013. I think the point is he wanted to get rewarded for his great contribution from his first contract with the Pats. In his opinion it didn't happen and I agree with him that the 2012 offer was not above market value as you guys state. Was Welker worth more than what that offer was ? Ehhh... matter of opinion. Polian and Irsay probably for sure would have rewarded him and not chanced messing up the chemistry. IMO , the Pats are good business people and what they offered made sense to me.

I will have to rely on Dustin for the figures for slot receivers in 2012 but I remember stories about the $8 mil be a very good offer for a 30 year slot guy who had major knee reconstuction. I mean Moss got around $10 mil I believe for his three years and Welker is nowhere near his category. I think the bigger issue was the number of years and like you said the Pats don't give long-term large contracts for past performance, especially for players over 30 that play a skill position. And it was noticeable last year that Welker is declining in terms of his speed and his drops.

[amfootball]

Incredibly immature because he doesn't like being derided in front of his teammates? Okay...

 

Like I said, I don't think anyone likes being treated that way. That a certain coach does it to everyone doesn't make it any better. I don't think it's whiny and immature. I do think it was a mistake for him to say it, because there's simply nothing positive that could come from it.

 

What I chuckle at is all these Pats fans who suddenly have all this negative commentary on Wes Welker. But a few months ago when Brady did his new contract, it was nothing but "now we'll be able to keep Welker, yaaaayyy!!! Brady's the best, yaaaayyyyy!!!" That's funny.

I guess lost on you is the fact that Welker TURNED down the Pats offer (two offers over the past two years to be exact) which caused the ill feelings within the fanbase especially since he went to the Pats main AFC rival for literally $1 mil more a season. And what has he done since he left? Whined to the media about Bill and how he couldn't be himself, blah, blah.

 

Like Virluant said, infantile behavior from a player who was never mature to begin with ...but go ahead and act like Pats fans should only sing his praises.

[Kyle]

 

infantile behavior from a player who was never mature to begin with 

oh ya, right... you ALWAYS thought he was immature.  this is exactly what is so annoying about your stance in this thread.  You absolutely NEVER would have said Welker was not mature until he was no longer a Patriot.  You, and other Pats fans, were praising Welker like he was the god of slot receivers as a Patriot but then once he is gone he becomes "a player who was never mature to begin with"...    

 

you sir, were never mature to begin with...NEVER

[amfootball]

oh ya, right... you ALWAYS thought he was immature.  this is exactly what is so annoying about your stance in this thread.  You absolutely NEVER would have said Welker was not mature until he was no longer a Patriot.  You, and other Pats fans, were praising Welker like he was the god of slot receivers as a Patriot but then once he is gone he becomes "a player who was never mature to begin with"...    

 

you sir, were never mature to begin with...NEVER

It is not big secret that Welker was immature hence his “now I can be more like myself” statement after leaving the Pats. Perfect example was his foot jokes on the eve of playing the Jets in a monumental playoff game at home as the number one seed in a season where Brady won the first and only unanimous MVP with his staggering 9:1 TD/INT ratio. His remarks got him a benching for the first series and set the whole tone of that game. I could understand if it was his first season but it was his fourth (he knew how the Pats operated) and he could not resist getting into it with of all people – Rex Ryan.

 

In terms of my stance at it relates to the Pats, you should check a thread about a month ago where I stated that the Pats may have made a mistake signing Gronk to that big contract given his off-season immature behavior and injuries that I believe in part have to do with his lack of conditioning in the off-season as he seems to like to dance and drink an awful lot. I have also been critical of Belichick and his inability to field a decent secondary since Mangini left.

 

So believe what you want to believe but your accusation holds no merit.

[Gramz]

oh ya, right... you ALWAYS thought he was immature.  this is exactly what is so annoying about your stance in this thread.  You absolutely NEVER would have said Welker was not mature until he was no longer a Patriot.  You, and other Pats fans, were praising Welker like he was the god of slot receivers as a Patriot but then once he is gone he becomes "a player who was never mature to begin with"...    

 

you sir, were never mature to begin with...NEVER

I thought amfootball was a "she"...???   Perhaps I was mistaken..??  

 

btw.. not meant as anything but truth.

[Kyle]

 

 

In terms of my stance at it relates to the Pats, you should check a thread about a month ago where I stated that the Pats may have made a mistake signing Gronk to that big contract given his off-season immature behavior and injuries that I believe in part have to do with his lack of conditioning in the off-season as he seems to like to dance and drink an awful lot. I have also been critical of Belichick and his inability to field a decent secondary since Mangini left.

 

So believe what you want to believe but your accusation holds no merit.

 

i stated you loved Wes as a Patriot and then said he had "always" been immature as if you never liked the guy anyway.  I have no idea what your thoughts about Gronk's contract and BB have to do with that.  but thanks for the info...i guess...

[Kyle]

I thought amfootball was a "she"...???   Perhaps I was mistaken..??  

 

btw.. not meant as anything but truth.

ahhh... i see.  you are probably right.  

[Superman]

I guess lost on you is the fact that Welker TURNED down the Pats offer (two offers over the past two years to be exact) which caused the ill feelings within the fanbase especially since he went to the Pats main AFC rival for literally $1 mil more a season. And what has he done since he left? Whined to the media about Bill and how he couldn't be himself, blah, blah.

 

Like Virluant said, infantile behavior from a player who was never mature to begin with ...but go ahead and act like Pats fans should only sing his praises.

 

I mentioned this very fact several posts ago.

 

At least you finally admit it. Like I said earlier, there's a "spurned lover" flavor to your posts, as well as other Pats fans. It's clearly evident, even in the way you titled the thread. But when it's pointed out, you pretend that your opinion isn't slanted by those ill feelings. 

 

So because Welker didn't stay with the Pats, and because it apparently was about more than just the money (given his recent comments), the expressions of many Pats fans are about more than just Welker's impact as a football player. That's more than just calling him whiny and immature, two descriptions I disagree with, but understand coming from your side of the table. Where it really makes me shake my head is when his contributions are talked about as if he wasn't a very important player for the Pats over the last six years, and as if his impact can be easily replaced just 'because Bill and Tom will make is so.' If there's any team that can make the transition, it's the Pats, but just wishing it so doesn't replaced 25% of your receiving offense.

 

I don't expect Pats fans to just sing his praises. But you've turned your back on him pretty quick, and have reduced his contributions as a Pat down to "he had two big drops in the postseason,' and 'he didn't help us win a ring, so we had to move on.' Neither of those are objective or sensible lines of reasoning.

[Superman]

It is not big secret that Welker was immature hence his “now I can be more like myself” statement after leaving the Pats. Perfect example was his foot jokes on the eve of playing the Jets in a monumental playoff game at home as the number one seed in a season where Brady won the first and only unanimous MVP with his staggering 9:1 TD/INT ratio. His remarks got him a benching for the first series and set the whole tone of that game. I could understand if it was his first season but it was his fourth (he knew how the Pats operated) and he could not resist getting into it with of all people – Rex Ryan.

 

 

See, again, this is interesting to me. Welker's absence for one quarter in that playoff game was such a big deal that you're mentioning it as if it's his fault that the Pats lost. But when I say "Welker was a huge part of the Pats success," you say 'any serviceable slot guy could have done his job.' 

 

That's two playoff games that the Pats lost, partly because of Welker's absence. But his impact had nothing to do with the two Super Bowl appearances... Right. :: rolls eyes ::

 

It's plainly obvious: The reason Pats fans are so negative about him now -- from the "drops" to the comments about Rex Ryan to "he didn't help us win a ring" to "the Pats made him" to "he's an immature whiner" -- is because he left. 

 

I'm just talking football. Set aside your sudden dislike of the guy now that he's not a Pat anymore. He was a huge part of the Pats success, and it's not fair nor is it reasonable to reduce his time there down to a couple of drops.

[-JJ-]

See, again, this is interesting to me. Welker's absence for one quarter in that playoff game was such a big deal that you're mentioning it as if it's his fault that the Pats lost. But when I say "Welker was a huge part of the Pats success," you say 'any serviceable slot guy could have done his job.' 

 

That's two playoff games that the Pats lost, partly because of Welker's absence. But his impact had nothing to do with the two Super Bowl appearances... Right. :: rolls eyes ::

 

It's plainly obvious: The reason Pats fans are so negative about him now -- from the "drops" to the comments about Rex Ryan to "he didn't help us win a ring" to "the Pats made him" to "he's an immature whiner" -- is because he left. 

 

I'm just talking football. Set aside your sudden dislike of the guy now that he's not a Pat anymore. He was a huge part of the Pats success, and it's not fair nor is it reasonable to reduce his time there down to a couple of drops.

That pretty much says it. Although a lot of other team's fans (including colts) also do the same thing, lose someone and all of a sudden they are no good in one way or another.

I don't get into the player leaving stuff as its business except maybe Branch which ticked me off. But he sat out unlike Wes.

I didn't like seeing him go for the 2m diff but I was more glad than not as I like change and the whole Brady to Wes binky thing would be forced out.

As to drops..eh they happen. Unfortunately Wes's timing on a couple weren't good.

But make no mistake Wes was a great player here and was a huge part in our season records and getting to the top.

<the other pat's fans>

[amfootball]

i stated you loved Wes as a Patriot and then said he had "always" been immature as if you never liked the guy anyway.  I have no idea what your thoughts about Gronk's contract and BB have to do with that.  but thanks for the info...i guess...

How is calling a player immature saying you never liked him? Gronk is immature but I like him as a player.

[amfootball]

I mentioned this very fact several posts ago.

 

At least you finally admit it. Like I said earlier, there's a "spurned lover" flavor to your posts, as well as other Pats fans. It's clearly evident, even in the way you titled the thread. But when it's pointed out, you pretend that your opinion isn't slanted by those ill feelings. 

 

So because Welker didn't stay with the Pats, and because it apparently was about more than just the money (given his recent comments), the expressions of many Pats fans are about more than just Welker's impact as a football player. That's more than just calling him whiny and immature, two descriptions I disagree with, but understand coming from your side of the table. Where it really makes me shake my head is when his contributions are talked about as if he wasn't a very important player for the Pats over the last six years, and as if his impact can be easily replaced just 'because Bill and Tom will make is so.' If there's any team that can make the transition, it's the Pats, but just wishing it so doesn't replaced 25% of your receiving offense.

 

I don't expect Pats fans to just sing his praises. But you've turned your back on him pretty quick, and have reduced his contributions as a Pat down to "he had two big drops in the postseason,' and 'he didn't help us win a ring, so we had to move on.' Neither of those are objective or sensible lines of reasoning.

Admit what? When did I ever say Wes was not offered two contracts that HE turned down?

 

Again, not sure who is saying he was not important contributor? But let's be honest, many receivers have looked great inside of the Pats offense with Brady and not so good elsewhere, ie. Branch, Givens so to act like Wes was not immensely helped as a player with a first ballot HoF QB and and an offense that has been pretty much the best in the league since he came is ignorant of reality.

 

And when did I ever reduce him to his drops? My exact post was that the drops were not even a significant factor in negoiations but that they did not go unnoticed either. And not just those two key drops but his rising drop rate the last two seasons along with decreased speed.

[amfootball]

See, again, this is interesting to me. Welker's absence for one quarter in that playoff game was such a big deal that you're mentioning it as if it's his fault that the Pats lost. But when I say "Welker was a huge part of the Pats success," you say 'any serviceable slot guy could have done his job.' 

 

That's two playoff games that the Pats lost, partly because of Welker's absence. But his impact had nothing to do with the two Super Bowl appearances... Right. :: rolls eyes ::

 

It's plainly obvious: The reason Pats fans are so negative about him now -- from the "drops" to the comments about Rex Ryan to "he didn't help us win a ring" to "the Pats made him" to "he's an immature whiner" -- is because he left. 

 

I'm just talking football. Set aside your sudden dislike of the guy now that he's not a Pat anymore. He was a huge part of the Pats success, and it's not fair nor is it reasonable to reduce his time there down to a couple of drops.

When did I blame Wes for the loss? I said his benching set the tone of the game which it did. You expect more from one of your top offensive weapons on the eve of a playoff game at home as the #1 seed. Like I said it was his 4th season with the Pats not his first. He knew how the Pats rolled.

 

Again, see previous post. Never reduced him to his drops but his tenure with the Pats was not all rosy either. I think you just want to see what you want to see. It is possible to respect and admire what a player did for your team and then have ill feelings when he leaves after being offered two contracts and then bad mouths the coach on the way out.

[southwest1]

I don't live in Boston. I have no idea how Wes Welker is truthfully perceived there. If Amendola wasn't part of the equation as Brady's substitute for Wes, would Welker's departure be viewed with regret or a good riddance mindset? If Welker should be upset at anybody, it should be his agent not Bellichick IMO.

 

Did Wes secretly want to end his career playing with Manning & he lacks the confidence to disclose that fact before the Massachusetts fan base? SW1 is just speculating outloud...I'm not saying 1 HOF QB is better than another one at all just that Welker probably figured since he wasn't gonna get a big new deal from Robert Kraft what the hades why not ride with Peyton for 2 seasons...If he plays lights out in Denver, perhaps Welker will show the league that Brady alone isn't singlehandedly responsible for his success...

 

Saying unflattering about your former boss the grey hoodie looks petty & small. We're not talking about an ex psycho girlfriend here. But, as Anton McGonnell said, I have never seen Bill Belichick publicly admit that he made a mistake releasing a player too early either. Not an indictment on Bill. I just respect people who can acknowledge that miscalculations were made. Wes needs to grow up & take like a man though. You play for Denver now not NE. Get your crap together & get on the same page with Manning. Don't say anything nasty about NE Wes. You wouldn't half the star you are today if you had stayed in Miami without Brady. Remember that Wes. Thank you. 

[ViriLudant]

Incredibly immature because he doesn't like being derided in front of his teammates? Okay...

 

Like I said, I don't think anyone likes being treated that way. That a certain coach does it to everyone doesn't make it any better. I don't think it's whiny and immature. I do think it was a mistake for him to say it, because there's simply nothing positive that could come from it.

 

What I chuckle at is all these Pats fans who suddenly have all this negative commentary on Wes Welker. But a few months ago when Brady did his new contract, it was nothing but "now we'll be able to keep Welker, yaaaayyy!!! Brady's the best, yaaaayyyyy!!!" That's funny.

*sigh*

Once again, you ignore the key part of it.

Welker even said that he was derided "JUST LIKE THE REST OF MY TEAMMATES."

So no, he shouldn't complain. He wasn't picked on differently than any of his teammates, for crying out loud. I have a hard time believing that you can't see that.

[ViriLudant]

oh ya, right... you ALWAYS thought he was immature.  this is exactly what is so annoying about your stance in this thread.  You absolutely NEVER would have said Welker was not mature until he was no longer a Patriot.  You, and other Pats fans, were praising Welker like he was the god of slot receivers as a Patriot but then once he is gone he becomes "a player who was never mature to begin with"...    

 

you sir, were never mature to begin with...NEVER

Wait a second. You're making a complete non-sequitur.

Being immature has nothing to do with being an outstanding slot receiver. Nothing whatsoever.

[GoColts8818]

Why care so much?  Welker didn't like the way he was treated by the coach and it was part of the reason he left.  If we had a player who didn't like the way the coach treated him and we weren't willing to get ride of the coach I would hope he would leave too as to not cause an issue in the locker room. 

[ViriLudant]

Why care so much?  Welker didn't like the way he was treated by the coach and it was part of the reason he left.  If we had a player who didn't like the way the coach treated him and we weren't willing to get ride of the coach I would hope he would leave too as to not cause an issue in the locker room.

I honestly don't have that much concern about Welker leaving; if Amendola can remain healthy (a big if), he's much faster and his hands are better than Welker's. He could (key word, folks) be a better WR for the Patriots than Welker would have been this year.

For me, it's just about his immaturity since he's left.

[southwest1]

They're so close, Brady even gave Wes a mammogram once.

 

 

 

PS:Do they have civil unions in Boston?

Kinda brings a whole meaning to the phrase "Man Crush" doesn't it? Um, do you 2 fellas need a room? Just Kidding! 

 

I can't tease Brady & Wes too much though because SW1 has one for Peyton Manning, but the only difference is now I don't give #18 a pass for post season exits anymore.

 

Plus, I respect that Brady takes all his fame & fortune jokes in stride. I really admire that actually. 

[GoColts8818]

I honestly don't have that much concern about Welker leaving; if Amendola can remain healthy (a big if), he's much faster and his hands are better than Welker's. He could (key word, folks) be a better WR for the Patriots than Welker would have been this year.

For me, it's just about his immaturity since he's left.

I think it's more that you guys expect some kind of blind loyalty to the Pats that doesn't exist and don't like what he's saying about your coach.  He didn't like the way he was treated in New England and is saying so.  He kept his mouth shut when he was there and was professional about it, as a fan that's what I want.  If he's going to yap after he's gone who cares?  He's gone.

[southwest1]

*sigh*

Once again, you ignore the key part of it.

Welker even said that he was derided "JUST LIKE THE REST OF MY TEAMMATES."

So no, he shouldn't complain. He wasn't picked on differently than any of his teammates, for crying out loud. I have a hard time believing that you can't see that.

You make a valid point VL & I will admit that since I am not in the Patriots locker room or front office I have no idea how players are typically treated on a daily basis. However, TE Aaron Hernandez was offered a huge contract for a short body of production on the field vs Wes Welker who has been a mainstay security blanket since 2007. My point here is that Patriots management seemed to be sending a mixed message. A shorter window of success was worth more money than a proven commodity. From an outsiders perspective living in WI, SW1 was amazed at the magnitude of the deal that Hernandez was offered so quickly. From that vantage point, Welker had a right to be ticked off in my book. 

 

But, then again, a player is only worth what the owner Robert Kraft is willing to pay too. And the tread on Wes Welker's tires isn't exactly fresh anymore either...Wes is still elusive & smart, but durability can become an issue now along with diminished speed as well i.e. losing a step or 2. 

[southwest1]

If I were Wes, I'd stop whining just in case his woman wants to move back to the Boston area so Anna & Giselle can go on shopping trips together once Welker retires from football. Don't burn any Massachusetts bridges man. Trust me, Boston citizens are awesome just don't tick them off. You don't wanna approach Eric Mangini hatred here Wes. Tread lightly man...

 

Besides, "a happy wife equals a happy life" & Anna is mighty fine man.   Don't flip that apple cart Wes. I'm just saying...

 

[ViriLudant]

You make a valid point VL & I will admit that since I am not in the Patriots locker room or front office I have no idea how players are typically treated on a daily basis. However, TE Aaron Hernandez was offered a huge contract for a short body of production on the field vs Wes Welker who has been a mainstay security blanket since 2007. My point here is that Patriots management seemed to be sending a mixed message. A shorter window of success was worth more money than a proven commodity. From an outsiders perspective living in WI, SW1 was amazed at the magnitude of the deal that Hernandez was offered so quickly. From that vantage point, Welker had a right to be ticked off in my book. 

 

But, then again, a player is only worth what the owner Robert Kraft is willing to pay too. And the tread on Wes Welker's tires isn't exactly fresh anymore either...Wes is still elusive & smart, but durability can become an issue now along with diminished speed as well i.e. losing a step or 2.

Except for some pertinent facts:

The Patriots offered Welker contracts TWICE. He turned them both down.

Welker is now 32 years old, and on the downside (and if you disagree, then I'm sorry, you did not watch the Patriots in 2011 or 2012).

[Superman]

*sigh*

Once again, you ignore the key part of it.

Welker even said that he was derided "JUST LIKE THE REST OF MY TEAMMATES."

So no, he shouldn't complain. He wasn't picked on differently than any of his teammates, for crying out loud. I have a hard time believing that you can't see that.

So because he did it to everyone else, that means Welker has to be okay with it?

Do you people really believe that any grown man is okay with being derided in front of his peers? I understand that this is a part of the culture, but that doesn't mean anyone is happy when it happens to them.

My point has never been that he was treated any differently than his teammates.

[Dustin]

I will have to rely on Dustin for the figures for slot receivers in 2012 but I remember stories about the $8 mil be a very good offer for a 30 year slot guy who had major knee reconstuction.

 

You keep comparing his contract to that of other slot receivers when it's not a very good comparison imo. Most slot receivers are the 3rd /4th option on any given team so of course their average contracts are going to be lower. Welker's production, and the number of times he was targeted are higher, or on par, with most #1 receivers in the league. 

[ViriLudant]

So because he did it to everyone else, that means Welker has to be okay with it?

Do you people really believe that any grown man is okay with being derided in front of his peers? I understand that this is a part of the culture, but that doesn't mean anyone is happy when it happens to them.

My point has never been that he was treated any differently than his teammates.

God, thank god he never was coached by Parcells.

Or Shula.

Or Lombardi.

And on, and on, and on...

[ViriLudant]

You keep comparing his contract to that of other slot receivers when it's not a very good comparison imo. Most slot receivers are the 3rd /4th option on any given team so of course their average contracts are going to be lower. Welker's production, and the number of times he was targeted are higher, or on par, with most #1 receivers in the league. 

Understandable, but what about YPC?

[Superman]

Admit what? When did I ever say Wes was not offered two contracts that HE turned down?

 

Again, not sure who is saying he was not important contributor? But let's be honest, many receivers have looked great inside of the Pats offense with Brady and not so good elsewhere, ie. Branch, Givens so to act like Wes was not immensely helped as a player with a first ballot HoF QB and and an offense that has been pretty much the best in the league since he came is ignorant of reality.

 

And when did I ever reduce him to his drops? My exact post was that the drops were not even a significant factor in negoiations but that they did not go unnoticed either. And not just those two key drops but his rising drop rate the last two seasons along with decreased speed.

 

 

When did I blame Wes for the loss? I said his benching set the tone of the game which it did. You expect more from one of your top offensive weapons on the eve of a playoff game at home as the #1 seed. Like I said it was his 4th season with the Pats not his first. He knew how the Pats rolled.

 

Again, see previous post. Never reduced him to his drops but his tenure with the Pats was not all rosy either. I think you just want to see what you want to see. It is possible to respect and admire what a player did for your team and then have ill feelings when he leaves after being offered two contracts and then bad mouths the coach on the way out.

 

I just... this is impossible.

 

My point is very simple: You Pats fans coming out so negative against Wes Welker is clearly an indication of your hurt feelings that he left. You're bitter and resentful. And it betrays any objectivity when you start talking about how easily he'll be replaced and focusing on a couple of big drops, etc.

 

Specific to this topic, I think Welker's comments show some bitterness as well. According to Kraft, the Pats offered him more money, and he still went to the Broncos. He was upset about something more than just the money, and it's coming out in his comments. But I don't think him expressing how he disliked being treated a certain way in front of his teammates is "whiny." I think it's natural for a grown man to want to be treated with respect.

 

But never mind all of that. Just keep pretending that you're the objective one, that you are the one who -- despite your feelings -- has the proper perspective on Wes Welker, and I'm the one who is seeing what I want to see. 

[southwest1]

Except for some pertinent facts:

The Patriots offered Welker contracts TWICE. He turned them both down.

Welker is now 32 years old, and on the downside (and if you disagree, then I'm sorry, you did not watch the Patriots in 2011 or 2012).

I will admit that age 32 tends to make a body & it's recuperation time slow down & injuries linger especially in the NFL. No argument there. That's what I was referring too regarding the tire tread statement. Do you think both offers were reasonable salary wise or was Wes being low balled? A big selling point for NE is competing for a Championship. That works great until there is a prolonged drought between Lombardi trophies [2004.]

 

NE is still a top notch organization, but when a player like Wes is nearing the end of his career he usually goes after the path of least resistance to a trophy & a ring. I'm not questioning Brady or that offense just whether NE has a Championship defense right now that's all. Naturally, gelling at the right time is all that really matters of course just Eli Manning & the Giants. So anything is possible in terms of defensive prowess & improvement.  

[Dustin]

Understandable, but what about YPC?

 

His YPC is low, but his YAC is extremely high for a player who is used a lot. Since he's been in NE his YAC has never fell below 5.0 and been above 6.0 3 times.

[Superman]

God, thank god he never was coached by Parcells.

Or Shula.

Or Lombardi.

And on, and on, and on...

 

Do you think Parcells, Shula and Lombardi never had players or former players complain about the way they were treated?

 

You're acting like Welker spent the summer crying to a therapist about Belichick.

[southwest1]

I just... this is impossible.

 

My point is very simple: You Pats fans coming out so negative against Wes Welker is clearly an indication of your hurt feelings that he left. You're bitter and resentful. And it betrays any objectivity when you start talking about how easily he'll be replaced and focusing on a couple of big drops, etc.

 

Specific to this topic, I think Welker's comments show some bitterness as well. According to Kraft, the Pats offered him more money, and he still went to the Broncos. He was upset about something more than just the money, and it's coming out in his comments. But I don't think him expressing how he disliked being treated a certain way in front of his teammates is "whiny." I think it's natural for a grown man to want to be treated with respect.

 

But never mind all of that. Just keep pretending that you're the objective one, that you are the one who -- despite your feelings -- has the proper perspective on Wes Welker, and I'm the one who is seeing what I want to see. 

That's what troubled me too or perplexed me anyway. Why was Kraft getting so upset? Players, even veterans, leave or get released all the time why speak publicly about Welker's departure at all? If they had beaten the NY Giants in either 2007 or 2012 would the Mr. Kraft say a peep about another NE Patriots player leaving? Nope. He wouldn't care. Does breaking this vow of media silence indicate doubts about whether this crop of recruits can close the deal & hoist the above their heads? Hmmm... 

[Superman]

That's what troubled me too or perplexed me anyway. Why was Kraft getting so upset? Players, even veterans, leave or get released all the time why speak publicly about Welker's departure at all? If they had beaten the NY Giants in either 2007 or 2012 would the Mr. Kraft say a peep about another NE Patriots player leaving? Nope. He wouldn't care. Does breaking this vow of media silence indicate doubts about whether this crop of recruits can close the deal & hoist the above their heads? Hmmm... 

 

Kraft said he normally doesn't talk about contracts, and that's right. But he felt it was good to explain to the media and the fans what happened with Wes Welker. I'd appreciate that if I were a Pats fan. He didn't seem upset, maybe disappointed because he wanted Welker to stay.

[amfootball]

You keep comparing his contract to that of other slot receivers when it's not a very good comparison imo. Most slot receivers are the 3rd /4th option on any given team so of course their average contracts are going to be lower. Welker's production, and the number of times he was targeted are higher, or on par, with most #1 receivers in the league. 

 

Ok then the $8 mil was a good offer then as they did offer him a contract well above other slot guys because of his production. Again, he is not Calvin Johnson though. He is giving you 5 TDs on average per season. I really believe it was more about the years. His agent should have never let him sign a 5 year deal at age 26 but what could he do? Welker was unknown commodity then so he signed on the dotted line. Really this is a lesson in getting a good agent. Welker's really hurt him IMO.