Our OLB comparisons (Mathis to reach 100 Sack mark)

[BProland85]

Mathis currently has 91 sacks and this could be the year he reaches 100. I think he could wind up a HOF if Freeney makes it. Hopefully Mathis can keep his career going with the Colts for another 3 years which would make him 35 before he could show signs of decline.

 

As for comparisons, I see our 2 potential starting OLBs Mathis and Werner) similar in ways to Washington's pair of Orakpo and Kerrigan.

 

Orakpo compares to Mathis because both use their athleticism and speed to get to the QB. Mathis has a little edge on speed, while Orakpo has a little edge on strength and size.

 

Kerrigan compares very well to Werner in size and attributes. Both can bat the ball down well, and both are complete players who play both the run and pass.

[TKnight24]

Robert Mathis caught an Interception, Dwight Freeney didn't

End of discussion

[Coltscodeblue]

That is what stood out last year for me was the interception at the Detroit game and the first of his career, so he'll have that up on Mr.Freeney and Mr.Mathis got 8 sacks last year so getting 9 is a strong possibility, even if he doesn't he will the next year unless he has a major career end injury he'll finish up with more sacks than Mr.Freeney and retire as a Colt without a 1 day contract :}

 

Go Colts!!!!!

[TKnight24]

That is what stood out last year for me was the interception at the Detroit game and the first of his career, so he'll have that up on Mr.Freeney and Mr.Mathis got 8 sacks last year so getting 9 is a strong possibility, even if he doesn't he will the next year unless he has a major career end injury he'll finish up with more sacks than Mr.Freeney and retire as a Colt without a 1 day contract :}

Go Colts!!!!!

His sack numbers should increase as he is purely a rush LB this year as Pagano has stated/informed us

[AntonMcG]

Mathis currently has 91 sacks and this could be the year he reaches 100. I think he could wind up a HOF if Freeney makes it. Hopefully Mathis can keep his career going with the Colts for another 3 years which would make him 35 before he could show signs of decline.

 

As for comparisons, I see our 2 potential starting OLBs Mathis and Werner) similar in ways to Washington's pair of Orakpo and Kerrigan.

 

Orakpo compares to Mathis because both use their athleticism and speed to get to the QB. Mathis has a little edge on speed, while Orakpo has a little edge on strength and size.

 

Kerrigan compares very well to Werner in size and attributes. Both can bat the ball down well, and both are complete players who play both the run and pass.

 

Robert Mathis is not going to the Hall of Fame... better pass-rushers than him have been overlooked countless times.

 

I would love it if Werner turned into a similar player to Kerrigan... Kerrigan is a good pass-rusher but also a very complete linebacker in general, that is what I see in Werner as well.

[Gavin]

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Robert Mathis is not going to the Hall of Fame... better pass-rushers than him have been overlooked countless times.

 

I would love it if Werner turned into a similar player to Kerrigan... Kerrigan is a good pass-rusher but also a very complete linebacker in general, that is what I see in Werner as well.

Cortez Kennedy has 58 career sacks and he is in the hall of fame, The fact that Mathis can put up the numbers he does or has from different positions should at the very least make him be considered very strongly, The only thing I see that could keep him out was that he had Freeney at the other End for all them years

[Superman]

Cortez Kennedy has 58 career sacks and he is in the hall of fame, The fact that Mathis can put up the numbers he does or has from different positions should at the very least make him be considered very strongly, The only thing I see that could keep him out was that he had Freeney at the other End for all them years

 

Different era, different position. Mathis isn't a standout performer, historically speaking, in comparison with his peers. When Michael Strahan has to wait, you know it's going to be an uphill battle for guys like Mathis and Freeney. I don't think either of them gets in, to be honest. Not without really strong finishes to their careers.

 

Mathis might go bonkers at Rush backer, he's definitely made for that position. I think he'll be as good as Suggs, if not better. But he'd have to be at least a double digit sacker for the next five years in order to be a strong HOF candidate. I don't know, Jasper...

[Dustin]

Cortez Kennedy has 58 career sacks and he is in the hall of fame, The fact that Mathis can put up the numbers he does or has from different positions should at the very least make him be considered very strongly, The only thing I see that could keep him out was that he had Freeney at the other End for all them years

Kennedy is a DT.

[John Dee]

Robert Mathis caught an Interception, Dwight Freeney didn't

End of discussion

Mathis is the better all around player....     no doubt about it.

[John Dee]

I think Freeney had Mathis at the other end of most of his...   ??

 

Cortez Kennedy has 58 career sacks and he is in the hall of fame, The fact that Mathis can put up the numbers he does or has from different positions should at the very least make him be considered very strongly, The only thing I see that could keep him out was that he had Freeney at the other End for all them years

[Gavin]

Different era, different position. Mathis isn't a standout performer, historically speaking, in comparison with his peers. When Michael Strahan has to wait, you know it's going to be an uphill battle for guys like Mathis and Freeney. I don't think either of them gets in, to be honest. Not without really strong finishes to their careers.

 

Mathis might go bonkers at Rush backer, he's definitely made for that position. I think he'll be as good as Suggs, if not better. But he'd have to be at least a double digit sacker for the next five years in order to be a strong HOF candidate. I don't know, Jasper...

As much as getting into the hall is an honor so few get the priveledge of making it into. I think there is some favoritism involved as well, Part of it do to the media explosion over the last 35 years or so and wanting instant gratification and all the glitz and the glamour and the big personalties, Sad day when so many greats from when the NFL just started out deserve to get in and dont get in.  I know the league is different now in many ways but to me getting in the hall means more then taking into consideration the size of the player and the way the game is played, Its about honoring the best of an era

[Gavin]

Kennedy is a DT.

Howie Long. 84 career sacks from the DE spot

[Black-Vell]

Kerrigan is a good pass-rusher but also a very complete linebacker in general, that is what I see in Werner as well.

Were you talking about what you have seen so far in OTA's because I don't see how you could see a complete LB when B Werner has never played LB.

 

And no I'm not trying to bust your point - i'm hoping they are projecting Werner as a complete LB & I just haven't heard it yet. 

[Superman]

As much as getting into the hall is an honor so few get the priveledge of making it into. I think there is some favoritism involved as well, Part of it do to the media explosion over the last 35 years or so and wanting instant gratification and all the glitz and the glamour and the big personalties, Sad day when so many greats from when the NFL just started out deserve to get in and dont get in.  I know the league is different now in many ways but to me getting in the hall means more then taking into consideration the size of the player and the way the game is played, Its about honoring the best of an era

 

It is about the best of an era, or it should be. Yeah, there's favoritism, but there's also a really high standard most of the time. And that's why I think some of the more popular guys -- like Freeney -- aren't going to get in. He was one of the best of his era for a short period of time, and even then he didn't quite set himself apart, statistically speaking. Believe it or not, these guys aren't breaking down film when they're voting on HOF candidates. If they did, they'd see in Freeney an absolute game changer. If they interviewed offensive linemen and quarterbacks, they'd discover a healthy dread of playing against him. But the numbers just don't support his candidacy. And I say that as one of the bigger fans and defenders of Freeney's resume.

[Superman]

Howie Long. 84 career sacks from the DE spot

 

Different era.

[Dustin]

Howie Long. 84 career sacks from the DE spot

Different era. Also, Howie wasn't just a one dimensional pass rusher.

[Gavin]

I think Freeney had Mathis at the other end of most of his...   ??

Not his first 1st year in the league he didn't and he recorded 13 sacks, To be honest I think to much is made of the "he had so and so at the other de spot to draw double teams which helped" argument, That player still has to be good enough to shed his block, accelerate while not over pursuiting and then make the tackle. The chances do go up of course when a player is blocked one on one whole another player draws a double team but not THAT drastically

[Dustin]

It is about the best of an era, or it should be. Yeah, there's favoritism, but there's also a really high standard most of the time. And that's why I think some of the more popular guys -- like Freeney -- aren't going to get in. He was one of the best of his era for a short period of time, and even then he didn't quite set himself apart, statistically speaking. Believe it or not, these guys aren't breaking down film when they're voting on HOF candidates. If they did, they'd see in Freeney an absolute game changer. If they interviewed offensive linemen and quarterbacks, they'd discover a healthy dread of playing against him. But the numbers just don't support his candidacy. And I say that as one of the bigger fans and defenders of Freeney's resume.

Freeney gets in IMO. He was voted to the all-decade team (the same people who vote for the HOF) and is likely going to retire the all-time FF leader.

[Gavin]

Different era. Also, Howie wasn't just a one dimensional pass rusher.

Neither is Mathis

[Gavin]

Different era.

still getting to the QB and taking him down do change....See the ball get the ball, Now the alignment have changed in various ways to some extent but the concept remains the same

[Dustin]

still getting to the QB and taking him down do change....See the ball get the ball, Now the alignment have changed in various ways to some extent but the concept remains the same

Teams didn't pass as much. Less pass attempts = less opportunities to sack the QB.

[Dustin]

Neither is Mathis

Mathis is absolutely a one-dimensional pass rusher.

[Gavin]

Mathis is absolutely a one-dimensional pass rusher.

yeah probably but closer to a multidimensional player then Freeney

[Dustin]

yeah probably but closer to a multidimensional player then Freeney

That's not saying much lol

[Gavin]

Teams didn't pass as much. Less pass attempts = less opportunities to sack the QB.

You mean when football was football and I didn't feel like I was watching an Air Show such as the rule enforcements made it?

[Gavin]

That's not saying much lol

Nope, true  forget I even brought that up, waste of time, waste of forum space

[BOTT]

Howie Long. 84 career sacks from the DE spot

Long was a 34 DE and later a 43 DT if I remember correctly

[Superman]

Mathis is absolutely a one-dimensional pass rusher.

 

Mathis has been used mostly as a one dimensional pass rusher. That's what a decade in a 4-3 zone defense will do. He's capable of much more, though. I think his time at Sam last year proved that definitively, and you'll see it at Rush this year as well.

[TKnight24]

In the 3-4 Defense last year, Mathis outshined Freeney. Mathis also had a few injury problems but still managed to lead the team in sacks which speaks poorly about our pass rush unfortunately. No way a man who missed 6 games (I could be wrong on that number) should lead the team in Sacks

[NewColtsFan]

Howie Long. 84 career sacks from the DE spot

 

What's your point?    I have no idea what you're trying to say?

 

Also,  why would you mention Cortez Kennedy in comparison to Robert Mathis?!?     That's a complete mystery......

[Gavin]

What's your point?    I have no idea what you're trying to say?

 

Also,  why would you mention Cortez Kennedy in comparison to Robert Mathis?!?     That's a complete mystery......

My point being Mathis by the end of his career will deserve some consideration into the hall of fame, As to Kennedy, thats been establlished, No comparison there, Howie Long is in so I think Mathis certainly deserves consideration, More then Long even

[Gavin]

Long was a 34 DE and later a 43 DT if I remember correctly

yes but Mathis started out as 4-3 DE then converted to 3-4 OLB

[Dustin]

yes but Mathis started out as 4-3 DE then converted to 3-4 OLB

I think his point is that 34 DEs and 43 DTs don't get sacks at the same rate as edge rushers.

[NewColtsFan]

Perhaps it's an age, or generation thing....

 

But, Howie Long was a football God.   Among the most respected DL's of his time.    The only thing that setback Long from having ungodly numbers was that the Raiders,  who played almost exclusively a 4-3,  used him everywhere.   It was not uncommon to see him at all 4 of the line positions in the same game.   There was almost nothing he couldn't do.

 

But if they had just stuck him out at RDE and said,  "Rush the Quarterback"....   I think his sack totals would be way, way above 100...   probably above 150....

 

Will Mathis get consideration?    Sure.   But, as Anton McGonnell wisely posted,  he faces a terrible uphill struggle.   There are a number of pass rushers who have numbers around, or even better than Mathis who have not gotten in to the Hall.   And since Freeney stands a good chance of getting in,   that will probably hurt Mathis.    It may or may not be right or fair,  but it is what it is.

 

A Mathis/Long comparison is not going to be received well by long-time NFL watchers who do the voting.   Without knocking Mathis,   there's no comparison.   Long was several cuts above.    Tremendous talent.

 

Really.    Seriously.    Maybe not Reggie White or Bruce Smith or Deacon Jones,  but probably the next rung down.   That great.

[AntonMcG]

Were you talking about what you have seen so far in OTA's because I don't see how you could see a complete LB when B Werner has never played LB.

 

And no I'm not trying to bust your point - i'm hoping they are projecting Werner as a complete LB & I just haven't heard it yet. 

 

No not from OTAs, I mean purely from a skillset and measurement standpoint. Obviously this is complete projection, but I would love Werner to turn into a Kerrigan type of player because I believe he can bring similiar things to the OLB position.

[xMarvin88x]

Robert Mathis next jersey purchase. slept on it too long

[Jason_]

yes but Mathis started out as 4-3 DE then converted to 3-4 OLB

 

ok seriously, now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.  we all know you know more about football than to think that what you just said was a valid counter-point.  

[ViriLudant]

Mathis has zero chance of getting into the HOF; voters will all know that Freeney took up the double-teams most of the time during Mathis's career, allowing Mathis to be one-and-one.

I'd be very surprised if a guy who wasn't even the best defensive player on the team would be elected to the HOF.

[TKnight24]

Mathis has zero chance of getting into the HOF; voters will all know that Freeney took up the double-teams most of the time during Mathis's career, allowing Mathis to be one-and-one.

I'd be very surprised if a guy who wasn't even the best defensive player on the team would be elected to the HOF.

How was Mathis arguably not the BEST last year? He lead in Sacks. Sure Freeman lead in tackles but a LB is supposed to. If anyone but one of your LB's is leading in tackles...... something is VERY wrong with your defense

And what makes it more sad, Mathis didn't even play all 16 games and STILL lead in sacks. So what does that say about the rest of the defense?

[ViriLudant]

So, for one year he leads the team, that makes him HOF quality?

Zero chance.