Greg Toler impressing in OTA's

[BlueCollarColts]

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2013/5/24/4362672/cb-greg-toler-is-a-big-time-cat-and-star-of-colts-otas-thus-far

 

 

If Toler plays like a legit #2 corner (I believe he will be a very good #2 corner in the NFL) our secondary can be very good, Vontae Davis has potential to be a lock down corner this year, LaRon Landry and Antoine Bethea both have been to the pro bowl, and Darius Butler shined as our nickel corner last year

[TKnight24]

Think this was already a thread but yes, he has been good at OTA's from what I've heard

But, it won't matter who we have in the secondary if the front 7 don't do their Jobs

[BlueCollarColts]

Think this was already a thread but yes, he has been good at OTA's from what I've heard

But, it won't matter who we have in the secondary if the front 7 don't do their Jobs

oh sorry about that, mods can delete this if it has already been a thread

[bellboys]

Think this was already a thread but yes, he has been good at OTA's from what I've heard

But, it won't matter who we have in the secondary if the front 7 don't do their Jobs

I think with Chapman finally being able to practice in otas and the other big guys that we either drafted or signed as FAs we should be in pretty good shape on the front 4. It will be in the linebacker corp that might be a problem. But I hope that I'm wrong about this.

[TKnight24]

I think with Chapman finally being able to practice in otas and the other big guys that we either drafted or signed as FAs we should be in pretty good shape on the front 4. It will be in the linebacker corp that might be a problem. But I hope that I'm wrong about this.

Walden/Werner, Connor, Freeman, & Mathis

Where do you see a problem on that LB core?

[BlueCollarColts]

Walden/Werner, Connor, Freeman, & Mathis

Where do you see a problem on that LB core?

not to mention Angerer was injured the entire year last year, and Kelvin Sheppard adds depth to the LB's and he is no slouch

[TKnight24]

not to mention Angerer was injured the entire year last year, and Kelvin Sheppard adds depth to the LB's and he is no slouch

Exactly. If anything, that's a strong part of our defense

[NewColtsFan]

The timing of this thread is interesting considering two days ago we had a thread worrying that Toler was in a walking boot.

 

Glad we're back on the Toler bandwagon considering where we just were.....

 

 

http://forums.colts.com/index.php?/topic/18415-greg-toler-in-a-walking-boot/

[CR91]

I actually think our defense has more talent then our offense. changing of the guard

[TKnight24]

I actually think our defense has more talent then our offense. changing of the guard

That's possible. Let's see how it stacks up

Offense: Andrew Luck, Reggie Wayne, Vick Ballard, TY Hilton, Castonzo, Dwayne Allen, Coby Fleener, & Donald Brown

Defense: Robert Mathis, Vontae Davis, Greg Toler, Antoine Bethea, Laron Landry, Jerrell Freeman, Connor, Cory Redding, Erik Walden, & Pat Angerer

I based the list off of who I've seen play. No rookies were listed cause they haven't played in the NFL yet

[Gavin]

Im expecting the offense will lead the charge this year, I think we have a few pieces on defense we still need established

[TKnight24]

Im expecting the offense will lead the charge this year, I think we have a few pieces on defense we still need established

Like where? What pieces are we missing on Defense?

[Albaby]

I honestly think that the defense is definitely being focused on this offseason.  It's obvious that the FO understands that there was a definite need for change in the defense.  All of the pieces that they've added have potential.  I just hope that the injury bug gets squished and is never heard from again.

[Insert Colts Pun Here]

Like where? What pieces are we missing on Defense?

So there's absolutely nothing about the defense that you'd change?

[Coltsman1788]

Some need to temper their enthusiasm regarding our defense.  Yes we have made "improvements" on paper but we have yet to see if any of it makes a difference on the field.  The Colts got bigger up front which was what many wanted but it yet remains to be seen if these guys will be better at stopping the run than previous guys during the Indy era.  The guys upfront and the additions to the defense in general are better fits for our 3-4 hybrid scheme...this much we know but all else is speculative at this point.

 

I'm seeing posts including Eric Walden as "talent"  on the defensive side of the ball.  He is a solid back up who was thrust into a starter's role last year due to injury and did a decent job.  I wouldn't factor him into any talent equations just yet though.  lol

 

Our secondary...Vontae did a solid job for us late last year and all of a sudden he is now a "shut down" corner.  Sorry..he's not...not yet anyway.  Right now he is a good number one but let's not get visions of Revis Island just yet. I am happy to hear that Toler has looked impressive in OTA's he had a rep as a solid number 2 in Arizona so I felt it was a nice addition for us.  We still have Butler (who I like) and Vaughn in the secondary.  Vaughn is suspect but maybe he gets beat out by one of the young guys for the dime spot.  But then again he's a vet and has experience on his side and maybe he doesn't.  Overall the secondary looks solid but I still don't see them as a shut down unit just yet.  Bethea is solid at free safety but Landry gives up plays in the passing game and makes big hits afterwards.  People are enamored with his hitting but if the receiver makes a 15 yard reception  and still has the football afterward...the bigness of the hit and "Laroning" around after the fact isn't gonna take those yards away. 

 

Linebacker is suspect until we see what we have on the field.  Don't know if Werner will be stud or dud really.  He's adjusting to OLB in the NFL in 3-4 scheme...not really what he specialized in at FSU although he did play some at OLB and did well.  The point is we don't know if he will be our version of J.J. Watt or look like a rookie struggling to adjust to a new position and scheme in the NFL .  Walden has already been addressed...nothing special but fills a role.  He is pretty much a placeholder till we can do better.  Mathis is Mathis but will his game miss the attention that Freeney drew working on the other side or will Werner be able to do enough so that Mathis can be Mathis?  I like our middle guys...they are solid but not world beaters.

 

Also there are always injuries that we can not anticipate...but we know that the Colts have traditionally been snake bitten at the DT position.  Is Chapman really healthy?  How much of the season will he actually be able to play on that knee?  Should he go down, do we still have enough horses in the middle to stop the run?  Particularly if McKinney happens to not even make the team due to his past injury and our perceived depth at this position. 

 

So there are still lots of unknowns about this defense. Colts have worked hard to address this side of the ball but lets see what they can actually do before we start putting them on par with the offense.  Every year I hear our defense is gonna be better...we will be better against the run...blah..blah..blah.  Rarely has this proven true.  Given what we've seen in the past...the burden of proof is on the defense to show they are legit before we concede them anything. 

[Gavin]

Like where? What pieces are we missing on Defense?

I didn't say we are missing pieces, I said we still have some pieces that need to establish thmselves.........Werner, Toler...Im not concerned about Werner  but Toler had 9 pass deflections and 2 picks in his only season starting, His only year starting (2010) they gave up 7.3 yards per catch and were 23rd in the league in passing yards given up......Is that all on him? Of course not but he was starting....Im not saying he wont do well but Im not sold like some people are

[Holden89]

I'll go ahead and straight up say I'm not sold on our defense. We have a lot of "maybe" players. RJF and Toler haven't been anything special, but they also haven't gotten a whole lot of playin time.

Our LB corp is relatively weak, contrary to popular belief. We have no impact ILB, Mathis is just "ok" at OLB and Walden/Werner are huge question marks to me.

Yes, I know it can all come together, but I just don't understand the blind optimism.

[coltsfanatic24]

Lets not get ahead of ourselves Toler played well last year but he's no #2 CB, more of a great #3 CB on a playoff caliber team. Vontae Davis skillset is more of a #2 CB i.e Antonio Cromartie,Tramon Williams. We still don't have a #1 shutdown CB where you don't need safety help on his side and teams shy away from throwing his way. Vontae and Toler are really good physical CB's and huge upgrades from what we've had in the past, but i think will get our #1 CB in the 2014 draft.

[Holden89]

Lets not get ahead of ourselves Toler played well last year but he's no #2 CB, more of a great #3 CB on a playoff caliber team. Vontae Davis skillset is more of a #2 CB i.e Antonio Cromartie,Tramon Williams. We still don't have a #1 shutdown CB where you don't need safety help on his side and teams shy away from throwing his way. Vontae and Toler are really good physical CB's and huge upgrades from what we've had in the past, but i think will get our #1 CB in the 2014 draft.

I disagree with the Vontae part. I think he can be a really good #1 corner

[coltsfanatic24]

I disagree with the Vontae part. I think he can be a really good #1 corner

There aren't many #1 shutdown CB's Sherman,Revis,Haden,Peterson,Tillman, Taylor,and Bailey. Here's the #2 CB's Cromartie,Joseph,Browner, Rogers,Finnegan,Talib,Webb,Carr,Williams and Flowers. Just because he's the best CB on our roster doesn't make him a #1 shutdown CB in the league. I think Vontae is more of a great #2 CB which isn't bad some teams don't have that i.e Jags,Titans,Saints,Panthers,Bills,Dolphins,Eagles,Redskins,Lions, and Vikings.

[cjwhiskers]

Just because a corner isn't a "shutdown" corner doesn't meant he's not capable of being a "#1" CB. Vontae has the skills and the physicality no stay with WRs and make plays. He's also very capable of covering his man allowing his other teammates to do their jobs. With a mix of our new CB talent, and our Dline hopefully we won't need shutdown CBS to be successful.

[BleedBlu8792]

There aren't many #1 shutdown CB's Sherman,Revis,Haden,Peterson,Tillman, Taylor,and Bailey. Here's the #2 CB's Cromartie,Joseph,Browner, Rogers,Finnegan,Talib,Webb,Carr,Williams and Flowers. Just because he's the best CB on our roster doesn't make him a #1 shutdown CB in the league. I think Vontae is more of a great #2 CB which isn't bad some teams don't have that i.e Jags,Titans,Saints,Panthers,Bills,Dolphins,Eagles,Redskins,Lions, and Vikings.

Tillman, Taylor, Bailey......? Tillman and Taylor, NO, and to be honest NEVER have been considered with the elite. Bailey absolutely was, 2-3 years ago.

[BlueCollarColts]

There aren't many #1 shutdown CB's Sherman,Revis,Haden,Peterson,Tillman, Taylor,and Bailey. Here's the #2 CB's Cromartie,Joseph,Browner, Rogers,Finnegan,Talib,Webb,Carr,Williams and Flowers. Just because he's the best CB on our roster doesn't make him a #1 shutdown CB in the league. I think Vontae is more of a great #2 CB which isn't bad some teams don't have that i.e Jags,Titans,Saints,Panthers,Bills,Dolphins,Eagles,Redskins,Lions, and Vikings.

You don't have to be a shutdown corner to be a good #1 corner, and Vontae Davis has all of the tools necessary to be a shut down corner, speed, physical, can tackle, good ball skills, and with a known CB guru here in Pagano, some of us think Davis can be a great player, and I also think Greg Toler can be a solid #2 corner, in his one year starting he showed promise, and you need to realize when he started it was only his 2nd year in the NFL, so its not far fetched at all to expect a guy to improve off of his 2nd year, and last year he had a good season and it was his first year back from a torn ACL

[TKnight24]

So there's absolutely nothing about the defense that you'd change?

I wasn't saying we were set. I wanted to see what he would change. That why I asked

[TKnight24]

I didn't say we are missing pieces, I said we still have some pieces that need to establish thmselves.........Werner, Toler...Im not concerned about Werner but Toler had 9 pass deflections and 2 picks in his only season starting, His only year starting (2010) they gave up 7.3 yards per catch and were 23rd in the league in passing yards given up......Is that all on him? Of course not but he was starting....Im not saying he wont do well but Im not sold like some people are

But it's been noted that Toler had a GREAT completion allowed %. Someone posted it on here before. He does pretty well of breaking up passes. I don't care about picks unless we can use one but if we get 3 straight incompletions, offense is still getting the ball right back just not as good of field position as they would if we caught a pick

[coltsfanatic24]

You don't have to be a shutdown corner to be a good #1 corner, and Vontae Davis has all of the tools necessary to be a shut down corner, speed, physical, can tackle, good ball skills, and with a known CB guru here in Pagano, some of us think Davis can be a great player, and I also think Greg Toler can be a solid #2 corner, in his one year starting he showed promise, and you need to realize when he started it was only his 2nd year in the NFL, so its not far fetched at all to expect a guy to improve off of his 2nd year, and last year he had a good season and it was his first year back from a torn ACL

I like Davis  hes really talented but i don't consider him a #1 shutdown CB. Of course he's our #1 CB but that's not saying much if you looked at the rest of the CB's on our roster. I like both Davis and Toler as #2 and 3 CB's but i still don't think we have a #1 shutdown CB on the roster.

[TMPHBITEU]

I like Davis  hes really talented but i don't consider him a #1 shutdown CB. Of course he's our #1 CB but that's not saying much if you looked at the rest of the CB's on our roster. I like both Davis and Toler as #2 and 3 CB's but i still don't think we have a #1 shutdown CB on the roster.

You're just arguing semantics about your own definition of the term "#1". Not that I disagree with your point, but to the general population, the term "#1" doesn't necessarily equal "shutdown".

[TKnight24]

I like Davis hes really talented but i don't consider him a #1 shutdown CB. Of course he's our #1 CB but that's not saying much if you looked at the rest of the CB's on our roster. I like both Davis and Toler as #2 and 3 CB's but i still don't think we have a #1 shutdown CB on the roster.

I personally don't care for a shutdown CB. It's only arguably 3-4 in the NFL anyway. I just want a CB that doesn't get caught on every single time they get thrown at. At least make the QB think before he throws it your direction instead of the QB saying "Oh hey look! That CB is on the field, I'm gonna throw to him for an easy completion :)"

That's all I ask for an Davis brings that. Cause I bet Matt Schaub thinks twice about throwing the ball Davis' way this season

[coltsfanatic24]

Tillman, Taylor, Bailey......? Tillman and Taylor, NO, and to be honest NEVER have been considered with the elite. Bailey absolutely was, 2-3 years ago.

Tillman shutdown Megatron held him to 3 catches fo 34 yards, and he's also great at forcing turnovers. Taylor was on the #1 pass defense in the league with no Polomalu and Bailey played great all year until the Ravens game. I know those guys are  up in age but their still elite Pro Bowl players.

[BlueCollarColts]

Vontae Davis is a legit #1 corner, not a shutdown corner.... yet, but a legit #1, last year he was learning a whole new defense, and injuries slowed him down at the beginning of the year, but at the end of the year he was playing great, he should of had 2 int's in the Kansas City game, but a phantom PI call took one back, he had 2 int's against Houston in the last game of the year, and look at our playoff game vs Baltimore, Davis SHUT DOWN Torrey Smith, I can't even remember one completion Smith had on Davis in that game, I think with a full off season to work, Davis will have a big year

[coltsfanatic24]

You're just arguing semantics about your own definition of the term "#1". Not that I disagree with your point, but to the general population, the term "#1" doesn't necessarily equal "shutdown".

Agree #1 CB imo is a shutdown guy who has Pro Bowl talent and playmaking ability. For example Jerruad Powers was our #1 CB by default but really he was nothing more then a slot CB. Davis is a much more talented player then Powers but i see him as a solid # 2 CB, not a #1 CB which isn't a bad thing at all. The 2014 draft is a deep draft for CB's that's where i think will get our # 1 CB.

[BlueCollarColts]

Agree #1 CB imo is a shutdown guy who has Pro Bowl talent and playmaking ability. For example Jerruad Powers was our #1 CB by default but really he was nothing more then a slot CB. Davis is a much more talented player then Powers but i see him as a solid # 2 CB, not a #1 CB which isn't a bad thing at all. The 2014 draft is a deep draft for CB's that's where i think will get our # 1 CB.

so what your saying is you believe there are only, what 5 #1 corners in the NFL today?

[Insert Colts Pun Here]

I like Davis  hes really talented but i don't consider him a #1 shutdown CB. Of course he's our #1 CB but that's not saying much if you looked at the rest of the CB's on our roster. I like both Davis and Toler as #2 and 3 CB's but i still don't think we have a #1 shutdown CB on the roster.

I think Davis is too good to be a No. 2 CB. But, like you, I don't think he's a shutdown. He's in that limbo between the 1st and 2nd tiers. I'm happy with him as our No.1 though. We could do much worse.

[coltsfanatic24]

so what your saying is you believe there are only, what 5 #1 corners in the NFL today?

I think it's 7 #1 CB's Sherman,Revis,Haden,Peterson,Tillman,Bailey,and Taylor. These are the guys that rarely needs safety help you can roll coverage to the other side and they can completely shutdown the opposing team #1 WR. Davis has all the physical abilities of these guys but what seperates them is the mental aspect of the game.

[AllYouNeedIsLuck]

I think Davis is too good to be a No. 2 CB. But, like you, I don't think he's a shutdown. He's in that limbo between the 1st and 2nd tiers. I'm happy with him as our No.1 though. We could do much worse.

 

 

I think Davis is too good to be a No. 2 CB. But, like you, I don't think he's a shutdown. He's in that limbo between the 1st and 2nd tiers. I'm happy with him as our No.1 though. We could do much worse.

There aren't many shutdown corners. Davis is definitely in the 2nd tier of CB's and could be potentially in the 1st tier soon. Let's hope. 

[BlueCollarColts]

I think it's 7 #1 CB's Sherman,Revis,Haden,Peterson,Tillman,Bailey,and Taylor. These are the guys that rarely needs safety help you can roll coverage to the other side and they can completely shutdown the opposing team #1 WR. Davis has all the physical abilities of these guys but what seperates them is the mental aspect of the game.

Champ Bailey is not a shutdown corner anymore, Davis is every bit as good as Bailey IMO

[coltsfanatic24]

Champ Bailey is not a shutdown corner anymore, Davis is every bit as good as Bailey IMO

Bailey is one of the top 5 CB's of all time even at 34 he made the Pro Bowl and had a great year.

[ConBro]

I think our defense will quietly surprise through the pre-season, and then turn some heads once the regular season rolls around. I've read a lot about how the Colts have an up-hill battle to get back to 11 wins. With the way our schedule is, that is true-- it WILL be hard. However, this team isn't the 11-5 team from last year. It is BETTER. I can't wait for the season to start!

[BlueCollarColts]

Bailey is one of the top 5 CB's of all time even at 34 he made the Pro Bowl and had a great year.

he is one of the best of all time, and did have a good year last year, but he is not what he used to be, and he is not a "shutdown" corner anymore

[Dustin]

he is one of the best of all time, and did have a good year last year, but he is not what he used to be, and he is not a "shutdown" corner anymore

 

He absolutely is. He had the lowest Yards per cover snap of any corner in the league with 270+ snaps. You could make the argument he was the best cover corner in the league last year.