Whose In Charge - Tryon Says Caldwell Overaruled, Irsay Says Caldwells Decision ((Merge))

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

Ever since we gave up 16-0. I don't like Polian, I don't like Caldwell, And I do not like Irsay. They don't play to win the game. they lay down, and let other teams into the playoffs. But they really do not care. I am embarrassed to be a Colts fan when anyone ever mentions the coaching staff, GM, or the owner.. The TEAM. Is the only reason I am a fan today. they're the only thing apart of this organization that I have respect for. And they're the only reason I have the respect that I do however keep in my heart. Go Colts! Win MNF!

[Balzer40]

Where there's smoke there's usually fire. There is something to this story, otherwise Irsay wouldn't have had to come to Polian's defense. As fans we will never really know the true story.

This is it right here. People that believe Caldwell is just a puppet will believe that and those who believe every word that comes from the Colts brass will not believe Caldwell is just a puppet. I agree that, where there's smoke there's fire, and truth lies somewhere between what the Colts say and what Tryon and Phillip B. Wilson is saying(said a former Colts employee told him Polian ran the show and Caldwell only got job cause he wouldn't rock the boat).

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

How does he treat his paying customers with no respect exactly? Where do you see him not giving explanations? On that weekly interview they post on the Star he usual goes into far more detail than I see from GMs of the other teams I root for. The fact that you chose not to believe anything he says is your issue, not his.

Come on people! How many players have we seen released from the Colts who go out of their way to say glowing things about the organization that just told them they weren't good enough and took away their chance for a good life. This jerk is the anomaly - wouldn't it make more sense based on an incredibly long track record that TRYON is the problem - just maybe? Why do we need conspiracy theories.

Common sense suggests that either Tryon is lying about Caldwell just for the fun of it, or because he thinks it makes him look like less of a loser, or because Caldwell once in one conversation out of fifty implied that he liked him as a starter and Tryon is hanging his hat on in while ignoring everything else, or any other of a number of things. Far and away the LEAST likely scenario is that Bill Polian is willfully doing something irrational and damaging to the team because of some mystical personality defect.

And by the way, he DOES run the team. Nobody is unearthing any deep dark secrets when alluding to that fact. Its' his JOB for crying out loud!

I guess you weren't a fan in 2009 were you...? Do you remember 16-0 possibilities? And no... He doesn't run the team. He's trying to this year because Peyton is out, and really, we aren't doin so hot. I've actually seen videos of Dungy running practices, but when it comes to caldwell, I've seen nothing. Only ravings and comments of how Peyton runs the practices. It gets pretty bad when your own coach can't run a practice.

[JoKeR]

But why would Polian want to control the depth chart?

[MAC]

But why would Polian want to control the depth chart?

He provides the players that fit the schemes of the coaches. Jason often points out that the players have gotten bigger on defense since Caldwell and Coyer came along. I suspect that whatever is going on there is far more internal agreement about the matter than people are assuming. That being said, Polian is entirely free to fire whomever he wants. I would bet anything that this was done for good reason.

[coltfaninnewyork]

For some who say wilson has a agenda,that's funny how would you know?Personally i would believe him over any posters here who think they know.Wilson as a guy who covers the colts for a living, actually may know more than some poster's ....shocking isn't it?

[Malakai432]

Is Belichick a "man" when he gets up there are avoids basically every question in the same manner with the same tone and says virtually nothing?

Bill Belichick is pretty much just a plain * about everything. The two aren't comparable, he avoids questions but is mainly a total * about it. I've seen him be an $"'&" on several interviews. Especially when he loses.

[Jason_]

This just confirms what most of us knew already....Caldwell is a puppet and Polian will put personal feelings in front of whats best for the team...including not being able to admit he is wrong or swallow his pride. Disgusting.

Then how do you explain Delone Carter having 22 carries so far this year to Donald Brown's zero? If Polian couldn't admit he was wrong then why is the former #1 draft pick losing carries to a fourth round draft pick? Everyone last year was complaining that Brown shouldn't be #2 on the depth chart but that he still was because of Polian's ego. Now, Brown is no longer #2...because we have someone better.

[MAC]

I guess you weren't a fan in 2009 were you...? Do you remember 16-0 possibilities? And no... He doesn't run the team. He's trying to this year because Peyton is out, and really, we aren't doin so hot. I've actually seen videos of Dungy running practices, but when it comes to caldwell, I've seen nothing. Only ravings and comments of how Peyton runs the practices. It gets pretty bad when your own coach can't run a practice.

I suspect that I was a fan long before you were born, and I don't understand your animosity for the front office/coaches in the slightest.

I fully supported the decision to rest the starters that year, as explained in the following post.

http://forums.colts....h__1#entry27873

Ironically I was responding in that post to the same person that I was responding to a minute ago. It's not like anybody here is ever going to change somebody else's opinion, we just go around in endless circles.

[MAC]

For some who say wilson has a agenda,that's funny how would you know?Personally i would believe him over any posters here who think they know.Wilson as a guy who covers the colts for a living, actually may know more than some poster's ....shocking isn't it?

He obviously has access that we could only dream of, and I'm perfectly happy to accept the fact that he may know far more about football than me. That doesn't change the fact that a near CONSTANT theme in his comments has to do with what he perceives as a war between the media and the front office. Anytime they don't give him what he wants he throws a little fit.

That's not what trained journalists do. They gather and report the news, they don't complain about how difficult their jobs are, and they most certainly don't slant the "news" that they report on the basis of who looked at them funny last Friday while they were eating a twinkie during a press conference. He seems like a nice guy, but he is a fan, not a professional. And the perspective he brings has as distinct, obscure, and silly a conspiracy slant as any fan posting on this board. The difference is that he should know better. Don't take him for a journalist, because if that was his job he would have been fired long ago for incompetence. He's a fun read, that's it.

[coltfaninnewyork]

He obviously has access that we could only dream of, and I'm perfectly happy to accept the fact that he may know far more about football than me. That doesn't change the fact that a near CONSTANT theme in his comments has to do with what he perceives as a war between the media and the front office. Anytime they don't give him what he wants he throws a little fit.

That's not what trained journalists do. They gather and report the news, they don't complain about how difficult their jobs are, and they most most certainly don't slant the "news" that they report on the basis of who looked at him funny last Friday while he was eating a twinkie during a press conference. He seems like a nice guy, but he is a fan, not a professional. And the perspective he brings has as distinct, obscure, and silly a conspiracy slant as any fan posting on this board. The difference is that he should know better. Don't take him for a journalist, because if that was his job he would have been fired long ago for incompetence. He's a fun read, that's it.

So anything he writes is totally untrue?Funny thing here in new york we have a guy {mike francesa WFAN}who many believe is connected within the league and has had polian on many times.He often states that polian run's every aspect of that team.Now would anyone honestly think the front office would not tell you caldwell makes important football decisions?The running of most nfl team's is as secretive as the CIA.Francesa has a national radio show called nfl now,were he has player's and coaches on.Show is on sunday mornings.Polian has disdain for the press in general,why?The press is the pipeline to the fans so he is hurting the fans.

[MAC]

So anything he writes is totally untrue?Funny thing here in new york we have a guy {mike francesa WFAN}who many believe is connected within the league and has had polian on many times.He often states that polian run's every aspect of that team.Now would anyone honestly think the front office would not tell you caldwell makes important football decisions?The running of most nfl team's is as secretive as the CIA.

It would be as absurd to think that everything he writes is untrue as it would be to assume that it IS true. I just said take it with a grain of salt, and think of him as a fan with special access, not a journalist.

"Here in New Jersey" I've been listening to the FAN since it came on the air in the 80s. Ironically Francesa actually IS a FAR bigger ego driven pompous donkey than Polian is perceived to be - yet (like Polian) he is extremely intelligent, knowledgeable and on the money far more often than not. I would believe his statement. However as I stated earlier in this thread, Polian has every right to run every aspect of the organization - it's his job. That doesn't mean that his decisions are made based on some perceived personality defect, but rather for the good of the team - with 100% input from his EMPLOYEESS (Caldwell, Coyer, etal).

I don't quite understand your second to last line, but I agree with you that virtually every sports organization on the planet is secretive. There are many sound reasons for them to be so.

[coltfaninnewyork]

It would be as absurd to think that everything he writes is untrue as it would be to assume that it IS true. I just said take it with a grain of salt, and think of him as a fan with special access, not a journalist.

"Here in New Jersey" I've been listening to the FAN since it came on the air in the 80s. Ironically Francesa actually IS a FAR bigger ego driven pompous donkey than Polian is perceived to be - yet (like Polian) he is extremely intelligent, knowledgeable and on the money far more often than not. I would believe his statement. However as I stated earlier in this thread, Polian has every right to run every aspect of the organization - it's his job. That doesn't mean that his decisions are made based on some perceived personality defect, but rather for the good of the team - with 100% input from his EMPLOYEESS (Caldwell, Coyer, etal).

I don't quite understand your second to last line, but I agree with you that virtually every sports organization on the planet is secretive. There are many sound reasons for them to be so.

Yes,francesa{The pope} is pompous.The line you were not sure quite about,basically none of us will ever know what really goes on.Maybe polian is a control freak who run's everything,or maybe caldwell does have alot of input.The colt front office isn't telling so it's all conjecture.

[Fatboyslim11]

Polian is the reason we cant get a coach like Gruden here. A coach like that would want to much control and Polian cannot have that, I think thats why he was so good with Caldwell taking over from Dungy, Caldwell can be controlled because he knows there isnt another team out there that would hire him as a head coach so he knows to just do whatever Polian wants.

Better watch it. Speaking the truth when it comes to Polian and the Colts organizational deficiencies is generally met with overwhelming denials and questions about your fanhood.

[coltfaninnewyork]

I would love to see polian dealing with the new york media,now that would be classic.

[deedub75]

Yes but coach dungy would stand in front of a camers like a man and tell like it was, not stand there with a blank

stare on his face and grin. There is a big difference. i think when jc got offered this position it was you can coach

but!!!

Caldwell probably didn't want the job but Polian made him take it!

[ColtsPacersfan]

I think Polian is in charge. Caldwell does not really know how to be in charge. Heck he even does not know how to be an head coach! But I think he is Polian Puppet. Whatever Polain says, Caldwell does. We really need to clean out the front office, get some new faces. At this rate we are not going anywhere. We haven't had a major shake up in years. We don't go out and get the big guns in free agency. In the draft we only draft players that other teams would not even draft. Yes Polian made some good choices in the draft like Manning, and Freeney and others. But mostly all of the draft picks has been duds. That is also why we don't have a head coach like a Jeff Fisher or a Bill Cowher, because Bill P. knows he can't control them. It will drive Bill P nuts getting told what to do and get off my back. Its Bill P way, its his way or its the highway.

[cmgww]

Ever since we gave up 16-0. I don't like Polian, I don't like Caldwell, And I do not like Irsay. They don't play to win the game. they lay down, and let other teams into the playoffs. But they really do not care. I am embarrassed to be a Colts fan when anyone ever mentions the coaching staff, GM, or the owner.. The TEAM. Is the only reason I am a fan today. they're the only thing apart of this organization that I have respect for. And they're the only reason I have the respect that I do however keep in my heart. Go Colts! Win MNF!

Oh get over the 16-0 crap. It's old and tired. 16-0 was never the goal. It had already been done before by the Patriots. So what was the point?? And in case you forgot, we LOST the Super Bowl that season. Going for 16-0 wouldn't have changed that...in fact we could have lost Wayne, or Collie, etc...in that Buffalo snow game week 17. Belichik in the recent documentary about his coaching life openly regretted playing Wes Welker in week 17 of 2009 (who tore his ACL). Let the Pats keep 18-1 all for themselves. Quit crying about the "perfect season" crap!

And they don't play to win?? Are you kidding me?? You are probably only a fan b/c of the YEARS of sustained success the Colts have had. Caldwell and his staff put together a pretty solid game plan against a team that was supposed to blow us away, last week. Polian, like him or not, has been a big part of the Colts' success. Yes, he has missed on some recent picks. But he's batting pretty well overall (Nevis, Angerer, Carter, Lefeged, etc.) This team is built around Manning without a doubt. But who would have ever thought that was a bad idea?

Sure, everyone is saying it now (we should have drafted a good backup, blah blah) but that is with the benefit of hindsight. If you would have told me in April that Manning would miss the entire 2011 season, I'd laugh in your face! The guy had NEVER MISSED A GAME SINCE HIGH SCHOOL!!! And only 1 SNAP in his NFL career (not counting end of season "rest the starters" games)

So stop. Just stop. This is going to be a crappy year. No doubt. Get used to it. EVERY other team in the league has them, even the Steelers, Packers, and Pats have ALL missed the playoffs during the Colts run, some multiple times. I'd take this organization over nearly all but maybe the three mentioned above. So they aren't that media friendly. Neither is Bill Belichick (walking off the field after losing SB 42, pushing over camera guys, not shaking hands with opposing coaches).

[cmgww]

I think Polian is in charge. Caldwell does not really know how to be in charge. Heck he even does not know how to be an head coach! But I think he is Polian Puppet. Whatever Polain says, Caldwell does. We really need to clean out the front office, get some new faces. At this rate we are not going anywhere. We haven't had a major shake up in years. We don't go out and get the big guns in free agency. In the draft we only draft players that other teams would not even draft. Yes Polian made some good choices in the draft like Manning, and Freeney and others. But mostly all of the draft picks has been duds. That is also why we don't have a head coach like a Jeff Fisher or a Bill Cowher, because Bill P. knows he can't control them. It will drive Bill P nuts getting told what to do and get off my back.

You don't think Tony Dungy ever told Bill off? He may have done it nicely, but I am sure it happened occasionally. Tony commanded respect. Caldwell, well, doesn't seem so. But why does everybody think Cowher or Fisher is the answer? Fisher was an average h/c that did just enough every few years to keep his job. ONE SB appearance (loss) in 15 or so seasons...WOOO

[Xfiles]

Then how do you explain Delone Carter having 22 carries so far this year to Donald Brown's zero? If Polian couldn't admit he was wrong then why is the former #1 draft pick losing carries to a fourth round draft pick? Everyone last year was complaining that Brown shouldn't be #2 on the depth chart but that he still was because of Polian's ego. Now, Brown is no longer #2...because we have someone better.

You answered your own question...Drafting delone carter was clearly an indictment on Donald Brown, who was supposed to be next in line to back up Addai, so whenever Carter was drafted, that is as close to admitting he was wrong as polian will ever get. If he thought Brown was the real deal, there is no need to use that pick on Carter.

[ColtsPacersfan]

You don't think Tony Dungy ever told Bill off? He may have done it nicely, but I am sure it happened occasionally. Tony commanded respect. Caldwell, well, doesn't seem so. But why does everybody think Cowher or Fisher is the answer? Fisher was an average h/c that did just enough every few years to keep his job. ONE SB appearance (loss) in 15 or so seasons...WOOO

Yes, I think Dungy did tell him. But like you said he said it nicely. But I think he is the only coach that did tell him off. Even it was in a nice way.

[everybodysgotone]

Although I like almost all of the offseason personnel moves, I don't like this sort of unprofessional bunk associated with the team. One of the best things about the Colts over recent years was not having this type drama.

[Jason_]

You answered your own question...Drafting delone carter was clearly an indictment on Donald Brown, who was supposed to be next in line to back up Addai, so whenever Carter was drafted, that is as close to admitting he was wrong as polian will ever get. If he thought Brown was the real deal, there is no need to use that pick on Carter.

And my point was if his ego gets in the way then Carter not only probably wouldn't be on the team, but he definitely wouldn't be #2 on the depth chart. They realized Brown was a mistake so they drafted a replacement. A clear contradiction to the theory that

Polian will put personal feelings in front of whats best for the team...including not being able to admit he is wrong or swallow his pride. Disgusting.

All of the Polian and his ego getting in the way of personnel decisions is a bunch of short-sighted, anger-fueled nonsense.....imo.

[Xfiles]

And my point was if his ego gets in the way then Carter not only probably wouldn't be on the team, but he definitely wouldn't be #2 on the depth chart. They realized Brown was a mistake so they drafted a replacement. A clear contradiction to the theory that

All of the Polian and his ego getting in the way of personnel decisions is a bunch of short-sighted, anger-fueled nonsense.....imo.

He let brown run longer than he should have anyway......and I disagree..Polian is not the type of guy who likes to admit mistakes. Anger has nothing to do with that statement. He made excuses for "restgate" He made excuses for letting Ryan Lilja go....He made excuses for Hanging on the Bob Sanders too long......He made excuses for his Negative statements about the offensive line after the superbowl loss to the saints.....I could go on, but Clearly Polian doesnt have a history of coming clean and admitting he made a mistake. I am sure this eliteist attitude of his is part of what makes him successful, but when things go south, so does the Publics perception of his repeated "excuses"

[MAC]

Better watch it. Speaking the truth when it comes to Polian and the Colts organizational deficiencies is generally met with overwhelming denials and questions about your fanhood.

I love the Polians AND I like Gruden AND I would still agree that Polian's presence would prevent many "top" coaches from coming here - unless they agreed completely about philosophy as Dungy did. The thing is that most "top" coaches demand the final word on personnel decisions. They wouldn't work for someone like Jerry Jones either, but that doesn't mean that Jerry Jones is a fool, or that he doesn't have his organizations best interests at heart. Belichik is so dominant that people don't even know or care who their GM is. Do people in New England complain about the fact that Belichiks presence eliminates any chance of a top GM coming to New England? That would be ridiculous. Bill Polian is a football and organizational genius. Comparing his value to Gruden's is like comparing Manning to Collins. If I can only have one, I'll take Polian thank you.

[WoolMagnet]

This just confirms what most of us knew already....Caldwell is a puppet and Polian will put personal feelings in front of whats best for the team...including not being able to admit he is wrong or swallow his pride. Disgusting.

This makes no sense.

Polian brought in Tryon.

So wouldn't he be swallowing his pride by letting Tryon go too?

[WoolMagnet]

He let brown run longer than he should have anyway......and I disagree..Polian is not the type of guy who likes to admit mistakes. Anger has nothing to do with that statement. He made excuses for "restgate" He made excuses for letting Ryan Lilja go....He made excuses for Hanging on the Bob Sanders too long......He made excuses for his Negative statements about the offensive line after the superbowl loss to the saints.....I could go on, but Clearly Polian doesnt have a history of coming clean and admitting he made a mistake. I am sure this eliteist attitude of his is part of what makes him successful, but when things go south, so does the Publics perception of his repeated "excuses"

yawn

[StaticColt77]

Some people just can't eat crow.

[Jason_]

He let brown run longer than he should have anyway......and I disagree..Polian is not the type of guy who likes to admit mistakes. Anger has nothing to do with that statement. He made excuses for "restgate" He made excuses for letting Ryan Lilja go....He made excuses for Hanging on the Bob Sanders too long......He made excuses for his Negative statements about the offensive line after the superbowl loss to the saints.....I could go on, but Clearly Polian doesnt have a history of coming clean and admitting he made a mistake. I am sure this eliteist attitude of his is part of what makes him successful, but when things go south, so does the Publics perception of his repeated "excuses"

I fully agree about Sanders being kept too long, and I even felt that Stokely was kept a year too long considering the injury issues he had. However, I think this is merely a matter of opinion and there really isn't a right or wrong answer. As dominant as Sanders was on the field, I can see trying to keep the hope alive that he may be able to actually have a healthy year. Still though, I think they were about 2 years too late in releasing him...especially considering the contract he was given.

There were no excuses to be made about "restgate". As others and myself have pointed out numerous times, resting the players for the majority of games where playoff seeding is already decided is what most teams, the Colts included, always do. I was as hopeful as anyone that they could go undefeated that year but I also wasn't the least bit surprised when the starters were pulled.

As for Polian not coming clean and admitting mistakes....honestly, how many FO execs and/or coaches actually do this? No matter how I felt personally about the pick of Brown, they did what they felt was the best thing for the team. The FO saw the effectiveness of having a solid 2 back rotation after winning the SB. They knew they weren't keeping Rhodes around so they went out and found a guy they thought would be able to fill the void. Personally, I don't think a first round pick should have been used but that's just my opinion. Again, I don't think there's a clear cut right or wrong answer. Once they did use that first round pick though, they invested themselves in Brown and gave him all the opportunity they could to work his way into becoming an effective contributor to the offense. You can't judge a guy by a single preseason or even one full season like so many football fans like to do. They couldn't just completely give up on the guy after one year of limited touches, especially when they'd get nothing in return to compensate for the draft pick they used on him. IMO the timing was just about right in bringing Carter in. They gave Brown more than enough chances to do something. If they handn't, there would be just as many people now complaining how they gave up on a first round pick as there are now who want him to be released.

Bottom line is, yeah most people don't like having to admit a mistake. However you won't very often hear a FO exec saying "yeah this guy is a bust" or "drafting him was a mistake"...if for no other reason than it's unprofessional and puts the entire blame on the player when there could be a number of factors involved, such as maybe the player simply wasn't a good fit for the system. The way FO people admit their mistakes is in bringing in new players to replace the ones who haven't worked out. If you can't see that that's what the Colts have been doing then I don't know what else to say.

If your complaint is that they should have replaced certain players sooner, then I can respect that. But taking it to the next step and saying Polian's ego prevents him from fixing his mistakes and that it's disgusting is entirely different, imo.

[GoColts8818]

This makes no sense.

Polian brought in Tryon.

So wouldn't he be swallowing his pride by letting Tryon go too?

sssh your useing logic that isn't aloud when one is ripping on Bill Polian.

[WoolMagnet]

sssh your useing logic that isn't aloud when one is ripping on Bill Polian.

sorry. my bad.

[Xfiles]

sssh your useing logic that isn't aloud when one is ripping on Bill Polian.

You were in the vent thread arguing with people about allowing posters to have their own opinion heard...now you are in this thread blasting me for having a differing opinion on Polian than you do....make up your mind would you?

[Xfiles]

sssh your useing logic that isn't aloud when one is ripping on Bill Polian.

You were in the vent thread arguing with people about allowing posters to have their own opinion heard...now you are in this thread blasting me for having a differing opinion on Polian than you do....make up your mind would you?

[WoolMagnet]

You were in the vent thread arguing with people about allowing posters to have their own opinion heard...now you are in this thread blasting me for having a differing opinion on Polian than you do....make up your mind would you?

You certainly are entitled to your own opinion.

I think he, like me, would just like some logic behind these Polian "rants".

These "rants" tend to contradict themselves.

This is just MY opinion.

[Xfiles]

You certainly are entitled to your own opinion.

I think he, like me, would just like some logic behind these Polian "rants".

These "rants" tend to contradict themselves.

This is just MY opinion.

I understand. I didnt think my post was a rant on Polian, I just outlined some questionable moves he has made that he really has never publicly admitted were mistakes. Some of the Caldwell/polian bashing does border on blind hate, but I didnt feel like that is what I did.

[COLT in J-ville]

Who is lying? Who is telling the truth? Doesn't matter. It all just comes down to two simple facts.

1) Tryon > Lacey

2) Terrible decision

There's nothing else to be said.

[GoColts8818]

You were in the vent thread arguing with people about allowing posters to have their own opinion heard...now you are in this thread blasting me for having a differing opinion on Polian than you do....make up your mind would you?

I didn't say you couldn't have your opinion there bud. Just because you can have it doesn't mean I have to agree with it or like it.

[hawkeyes]

Gary Bracket, Dwight Freeney and/or Robert Mathis (can't remember exactly who or if it was both), Pat McAfee, and Curtis Painter have all publicly discussed their satisfaction with/support of Caldwell over the last few weeks.

Do you really think any of them would do anything otherwise at this point? Really?

IMO Neither Lacey or Tryon are NFL CBs!

[StaticColt77]

Do you really think any of them would do anything otherwise at this point? Really?

IMO Neither Lacey or Tryon are NFL CBs!

Tryon played well last year.

[OLD FAN MAN]

And a player that was just cut has no reason to try to start a controversy?

tryon was a short 5-9 tonys tiny player he is to tiny to play in the nfl