Whose In Charge - Tryon Says Caldwell Overaruled, Irsay Says Caldwells Decision ((Merge))

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Who knows the reason, but I always like to go to the facts as they are really known.

1 Tyron had a great year last year.

2 IMO Tyron should start over Lacy I think he is better.

3 We are already thin at CB cutting him makes no sense.

4 Tyron says it was not Caldwell's choice It may be the position coach or Defensive coordinator My bet is Tyron went to Caldwell & wants to start & the DC or position coach want to use him as a nickle he got ticked & said something to someone & ticked them off. To bad Tyron is a good player at a position we ARE NOT STRONG AT. Our team just got weaker

[OLD FAN MAN]

yawn

poilan said on 1070 radio that brown is a good rb

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

Oh get over the 16-0 crap. It's old and tired. 16-0 was never the goal. It had already been done before by the Patriots. So what was the point?? And in case you forgot, we LOST the Super Bowl that season. Going for 16-0 wouldn't have changed that...in fact we could have lost Wayne, or Collie, etc...in that Buffalo snow game week 17. Belichik in the recent documentary about his coaching life openly regretted playing Wes Welker in week 17 of 2009 (who tore his ACL). Let the Pats keep 18-1 all for themselves. Quit crying about the "perfect season" crap!

And they don't play to win?? Are you kidding me?? You are probably only a fan b/c of the YEARS of sustained success the Colts have had. Caldwell and his staff put together a pretty solid game plan against a team that was supposed to blow us away, last week. Polian, like him or not, has been a big part of the Colts' success. Yes, he has missed on some recent picks. But he's batting pretty well overall (Nevis, Angerer, Carter, Lefeged, etc.) This team is built around Manning without a doubt. But who would have ever thought that was a bad idea?

Sure, everyone is saying it now (we should have drafted a good backup, blah blah) but that is with the benefit of hindsight. If you would have told me in April that Manning would miss the entire 2011 season, I'd laugh in your face! The guy had NEVER MISSED A GAME SINCE HIGH SCHOOL!!! And only 1 SNAP in his NFL career (not counting end of season "rest the starters" games)

So stop. Just stop. This is going to be a crappy year. No doubt. Get used to it. EVERY other team in the league has them, even the Steelers, Packers, and Pats have ALL missed the playoffs during the Colts run, some multiple times. I'd take this organization over nearly all but maybe the three mentioned above. So they aren't that media friendly. Neither is Bill Belichick (walking off the field after losing SB 42, pushing over camera guys, not shaking hands with opposing coaches).

I don't have any issues with Polians drafts. Nor do I have a problem with how our team plays the game. I like how our offense is run. And i like how our Defense is run. I love the way we play ball. Its the part about Caldwell being a yes man that i however don't like. You talk about hindsight when it comes to your points but don't use it in your argument about belichick having his own hindsight. I've been a fan through out all of mannings years. We have won most of our games. Call me a bandwagon fan I do not care. I'm a fan of the colts, I am a fan of the Pacers, and i am a fan of purdue. The pacers suck, and so does the Purdue football team but when ppl ask me who I'm a fan of I tell them that i'm a purdue fan, I am a pacers fan. I've been born and rasied in IN. This is my state. I'm a hoosier, and I've grown up watching the Colts. They're my team just as much as the other teams i've stated. So take this talk somewhere else, kind sir. I find it offensive.

[John Dee]

I really wish Irsay would stop "tweeting"

And since Dungy has left the "Colt Way" has given way to selfishness and and an unorganized program from top to bottom.

I think Dungy really deserves a lot more credit than he is given for keeping everything "under control" while he was here.

Since Dungy has left Irsay has become a teenager with a new computer (this I don't understand he is becoming borderline embarrassing), Polian has not drafted well at all, and the team now spouts off in the media about the team. All of the above NEVER happened while Dungy was here, well at least Polian drafted "better"

This team is lacking "LEADERSHIP" and with Manning out, they have NONE right now. I want Fisher in here next season for more than one reason. The Colts really need a strong personality like him badly.

Caldwell just does not have it in him.

[cranium cramp]

My opinion on the whole Polian, Caldwell and Irsay circus is as follows. Many posters on here believe we should leave Polian alone for the fact that he has built a perinial winner in Colts land. However I believe Polian had the great fortune of drafting Manning instead of Leaf, looking at this year and seeing where we are headed as a team without Manning it is clear to see that Manning....Not Polian, Caldwell or Irsay is the glue of this team.

1 draft pick by Polian made our fortune, had we gotten Leaf then Polian would have been out as GM long ago. Because of 1 pick that was a no brainer we have been blessed to be Colts fans. That pick alone has made the Colts who they are. Not the draft picks since, not Polians knowledge of the game nor has any certain coach.

Have your posting wars among each other, doubt Polian, side with Polian. While doing so look at the team this year and where it is headed. We still have all the players Polian drafter minus 1. Polian drafted Manning who is IMO the that does not make Polian our savior. The core around Manning has been dropping off year after year. This is Polian. Manning making Blair White.....Tamme......Garcon into names to be feared tells me who made this team as it should tell all other fans who has made this team what it is.

[MAC]

My opinion on the whole Polian, Caldwell and Irsay circus is as follows. Many posters on here believe we should leave Polian alone for the fact that he has built a perinial winner in Colts land. However I believe Polian had the great fortune of drafting Manning instead of Leaf, looking at this year and seeing where we are headed as a team without Manning it is clear to see that Manning....Not Polian, Caldwell or Irsay is the glue of this team.

1 draft pick by Polian made our fortune, had we gotten Leaf then Polian would have been out as GM long ago. Because of 1 pick that was a no brainer we have been blessed to be Colts fans. That pick alone has made the Colts who they are. Not the draft picks since, not Polians knowledge of the game nor has any certain coach.

Have your posting wars among each other, doubt Polian, side with Polian. While doing so look at the team this year and where it is headed. We still have all the players Polian drafter minus 1. Polian drafted Manning who is IMO the that does not make Polian our savior. The core around Manning has been dropping off year after year. This is Polian. Manning making Blair White.....Tamme......Garcon into names to be feared tells me who made this team as it should tell all other fans who has made this team what it is.

Without disputing the value of Manning, I will point out that many "experts" preferred Leaf. Polian says that he spent an inordinate amount of time before the draft reviewing every college throw that either of them had made - until he confirmed to himself that Manning had far more physical skills than were commonly accepted. He already knew that Manning was a coach on the field. It wasn't a coin flip it was an informed decision, and the correct one. Just as when he took Collins for the Panthers and Kelly for the Bills - on his way to be named named NFL executive of the year SIX times.

You don't have to love the guy, and you can pretend to know more about evaluating talent than he does if it makes you happy, but he deserves your appreciation and respect.

[mahagga73]

Based on what? I'm not a Lacey fan by any stretch of the imagination but what did Tryon do in the preseason or in the games this year to make that statement?

He's breathing,therefore by default he must be better than Lacey.Simple equation.If I had a dollar for every time a reciever caught a ball right in front of him on 3rd and 14 I would be rich.

[Smitto]

All i can contribute to this is as a fan i dont like bill polian... and of course that doesnt matter, but his attitude towards fans and the media is almost annoying at times... I would like to think Caldwell is the one coaching this team i remember when polian said "Ben wont be playing any position but RT" Caldwell said Ben could play guard and made a reference to Diem so there may be some disagreements but i think caldwell has a good handle on his team.

[Smitto]

He's breathing,therefore by default he must be better than Lacey.Simple equation.If I had a dollar for every time a reciever caught a ball right in front of him on 3rd and 14 I would be rich.

Just like in the eagles game where a receiver caught the ball right infront of Nnamdi for a TD... my point is lacey is a good CB but he's just playing out of position.

[cranium cramp]

He's breathing,therefore by default he must be better than Lacey.Simple equation.If I had a dollar for every time a reciever caught a ball right in front of him on 3rd and 14 I would be rich.

It's not so much right in front of him, you can't say RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM.............I mean the guy is normally giving a 25 yard cushion so really nothing is ever right in front of him. Does Lacey not understand in order to cover someone you normally need to be in the same zip code?

[Jason_]

It's not so much right in front of him, you can't say RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM.............I mean the guy is normally giving a 25 yard cushion so really nothing is ever right in front of him. Does Lacey not understand in order to cover someone you normally need to be in the same zip code?

Some fans need to understand that Lacey is lining up where he's told to line up. If, after all this time of giving a big cushion, he were not supposed to be doing it there's no way he'd still be getting as much playing time as he does. He's clearly lining up where the coaches want him.

[cranium cramp]

Some fans need to understand that Lacey is lining up where he's told to line up. If, after all this time of giving a big cushion, he were not supposed to be doing it there's no way he'd still be getting as much playing time as he does. He's clearly lining up where the coaches want him.

I am sure that is where the coachs want him lining up, however when your CB is so bad he needs to give up a 15 yard cushion on 3 and 7 that says alot. That is the problem most of us have with Lacey. He may be in a coaches position, but he is NEVER in position to make the play when he is needed. For what ever reason......Lack of coverage skills, closing speed, tops speed, lack of something..........

[Jason_]

I am sure that is where the coachs want him lining up, however when your CB is so bad he needs to give up a 15 yard cushion on 3 and 7 that says alot. That is the problem most of us have with Lacey. He may be in a coaches position, but he is NEVER in position to make the play when he is needed. For what ever reason......Lack of coverage skills, closing speed, tops speed, lack of something..........

My take on it is lack of coverage skills. He has closing speed and can make the tackle..just watch him against the run. They probably keep him backed off the receiver in order to keep the play in front of him so that he can do the same thing he does against the run....come up and make the tackle.

So yeah, there are definitely a lot of negative things that can be said about Lacey, but not that he lines up so far from the receiver. The way a lot of people (not necessarily you) see it is that he's giving the cushion on his own because he doesn't know where to line up. I was simply pointing out that he's lining up where he's supposed to....giving a cushion is not uncommon at all. Even the best cover corners give a big cushion from time to time. The difference between them and Lacey is their ability to read the play and react much more quickly.

[chrisfarley]

you only have to look back to Tommie Harris decision to even TRY to figure out Jim Caldwell. Someone else is pushing buttons for the puppet.

[willysp]

A few comments to several things said in this thread:

- This D was awesome last week, but as someone else implied, that doesn't mean we'll see them in the next game - at best 2 or 3 games in a row is my highest expectation

- Irsay's last few football tweets (the 10% that don't quote rock lyrics or conduct contests) are angry and defensive, which tell me there's truth to Polian running the team

- This team has more talent than an 0-3 team. They are sorely lacking leadership amd coaching.

[Lodogg2221]

Im sure there was some reason Tryon was let go.

They wouldnt do it just for fun...

The bigger issue to me is the fact that Tryon was not a great CB in the first place, and now we have all this negative hype about what has happened, and the national media is picking up on some of it.

Guys have left in the past, and even made statements against the team.

I cant recall the team, Irsay in particular, ever even taking the time to respond like they have here.

That to me is a good indicator that something is not right.

When you KNOW you are in the right, there is no reason to blast back at anyone to defend your position. They know that too, and they never did it in the past. Now they are.

That says to me they are having issues, and dont want everyone in the world to know about it, which oddly enough, they have done by making an issue of it.

Who knows, maybe the season so far without Manning has taken its toll on everyone.

All I know is, I hope Irsay wasnt pulling our legs with the big changes coming in the coming months.

Of course what Id like to happen and what will happen are probably two completely different things, but I hope whatever he does makes Indy a competitor for a LONG time to come.

One other thing Id like to mention because a few others have brought it up.

Competitiveness and the desire to win.

I have always known preseason was a time for evaluating players. I also know the Colts never try to win the games, but rather use them for evaluation only.

On that part, I dont see how other teams do it (win), AND evaluate players, but the Colts cant.

I dont know their thoughts on it in the front office or coaching staff, and thats fine, I dont need to, but it would be nice if they put more stock in winning EVERY game.

As far as the 16-0 stuff. Well, I get that they were resting starters, and thats fine too. But there were starters that didnt need the rest, and again, you play to win the game. Hindsight being what it is, going undefeated thru the season and matching the Pats 19-DOH season wouldnt have been much fun either, but then again, had they done it, maybe they would have had a bit more fire/pride/motivation in the SB...probably not much, as I cant imagine any player not being seriously hyped about being there, but it doesnt matter, its over and done.

For me its this simple. Its a game. If you really are taking it ONE WEEK AT A TIME you WIN the game you are playing because you cant say that and then say, well, we are gearing up for the upcoming games. Although that fits in with a lot of the double talk coming out of the Colts organization at times anyway, so whats the difference.

The goal is to win every game you play. You put the best players on the field that will put you in position to win that week, and it would seem this time Tryon wasnt one of them.

Of course that begs the question then, what about Lilja or Johnson, or why keep Brown just to relegate him to 3rd?

I guess thats more than one question, but then again, there are lots more....

[GoColts8818]

you only have to look back to Tommie Harris decision to even TRY to figure out Jim Caldwell. Someone else is pushing buttons for the puppet.

The reports were the Colts felt Harris was trouble in the lockerroom last time I checked it's Caldwell who is in the lockerroom to make that call.

The owner has said twice this week it's Caldwell's call on who plays and who doesn't. Irsay has a track record of being very open and honest with the fans on twitter I don't think he just started lying with that. Yet fans are jumping to take the word of a player who was just cut who might just might have an ax to grind with his ex team like that's the gospel truth.

Fans tend to hear what they want to hear. Like has been said many times none of us really know what happens at the Colts complex. Tryon could be right but he could also be wrong. We don't know and we probably aren't going to know. Personally I choose to believe the owner who doesn't have a history of lying to us and I don't think he would just start with this. Better question why do fans care so much who is calling the shots as long as the team wins (excluding this year because of the Manning situation)? Most fans don't like Caldwell anyways so by the logic why do fans so outraged if they don't think he is calling the shots?

[GoColts8818]

A few comments to several things said in this thread:

- This D was awesome last week, but as someone else implied, that doesn't mean we'll see them in the next game - at best 2 or 3 games in a row is my highest expectation

- Irsay's last few football tweets (the 10% that don't quote rock lyrics or conduct contests) are angry and defensive, which tell me there's truth to Polian running the team

- This team has more talent than an 0-3 team. They are sorely lacking leadership amd coaching.

How does that telling you that Polian is running the team? It could be that he's frustrated like everyone else with the season and on top of that he's just sick of what he feels is stupid questions asking if Caldwell is a puppet.

Lack of leadership? If that was the case you wouldn't see them playing as hard as they did last week. They just don't have their play maker at QB. Also worth mentioning that of the four captains, two are on IR, one is out and probably will go to IR at some point and the other is AV. So if they look like they are lacking leadership maybe that is part of the reason. Three of the four captains aren't out there. As for coaching, I don't agree with that at all. The teams has improved leaps and bounds since the Texans game and the game plan was there for the Steelers game. They just didn't have the play maker they needed at the QB poistion. Case and point the throw to Garcon that was over thrown by Painter, the was a great call by the coaches, Painter just couldn't excute it. That's not a lack of coaching that's the back up QB not being Peyton Manning.

[MAC]

- Irsay's last few football tweets (the 10% that don't quote rock lyrics or conduct contests) are angry and defensive, which tell me there's truth to Polian running the team

- This team has more talent than an 0-3 team. They are sorely lacking leadership amd coaching.

I fail to see the logic in any of this.

No kidding they have more talent than an 0-3 team. But you kinda need an effective QB to win in this league. I'm quite confident that they will win a few this year. The leadership and coaching was apparently good enough to take them to the Super Bowl, do you think that they've all had aneurisms in the ensuing year and a half?

Your conclusion about Irsay/Polian is simply backwards to the point of being confusing - which suggests that you started out with your conclusion, and are now seeking out "evidence" to "support" it. Did it occur to you that he couldn't care less about the players comments, but rather he is angry at certain members of the media (who apparently share your opinion) for using the Tweets as a weapon to sow discord amongst the fans? It's the LAST thing the organization needs right now, and it would make me angry as well.

[willysp]

Let's just see what the pom-pom squad has to say Monday night. Logic? We'll see. Words, words ..............

Not sure that the last couple of pom-pom posts logically refute my statements - lots of words, yes, but let's see if Polian and Tweet-Master-Irsay can fix this team. We'll see .........

[MAC]

Let's just see what the pom-pom squad has to say Monday night. Logic? We'll see. Words, words ..............

Not sure that the last couple of pom-pom posts logically refute my statements - lots of words, yes, but let's see if Polian and Tweet-Master-Irsay can fix this team. We'll see .........

A cheerleaders job is to look pretty while making a lot of senseless noise to entertain people when there is a lull in the action. I'm never senseless, and I assure you that I'm not pretty. I do however like "words, words................. lots of words". I'm not sure what else you where expecting to encounter in a forum - an uploaded file containing some grunting and chest pounding perhaps?

[Rich Cannon]

I think there is a bit of politics, but to what extent they are we will never know. You just dont let go of a player who is obviously better than the person infront of him imo.